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Imagined posted:At several points in book 4 it's implied that Gollum has slipped off while Sam and Frodo are sleeping to visit Shelob, even as early as when they leave Faramir's company in Ithilien. Is that really what Tolkien meant us to believe? How would Gollum have gone all the way from Ithilien, past Minas Morgul, up the long stairs, into the tunnel, and come back several times -- presumably also missing out on a day's sleep several times in the process? I think he is gone when they are awake as well, but its been a minute since i read it. If i remember, he basically brings the rabbits back as cover, making it less conspicuous when he is gone for extended periods. They assume he is eating fish or rodents. But it is indeed slightly off and its in the realm of "don't think about it too much"
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Oct 20, 2021 16:19
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"Till the mountains could no longer hold her up" drat I love the understated little visuals he conjures with so few syllables you barely notice what a gently caress that would be like to imagine.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:20
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I think he is gone when they are awake as well, but its been a minute since i read it. If i remember, he basically brings the rabbits back as cover, making it less conspicuous when he is gone for extended periods. They assume he is eating fish or rodents. But it is indeed slightly off and its in the realm of "don't think about it too much" Huh? Gollum took time to bring the rabbits back because Sam sent him off catching rabbits with his bare hands lol. He didn’t secretly walk to Torech Ungol and back in the time it took Frodo to have a midday nap
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Oct 20, 2021 16:23
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skasion posted:Huh? Gollum took time to bring the rabbits back because Sam sent him off catching rabbits with his bare hands lol. He didn’t secretly walk to Torech Ungol and back in the time it took Frodo to have a midday nap if you recall better im certainly wrong
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Oct 20, 2021 16:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but he could (e.g.,) spend a day walking frodo from Point A to point B (where A and B are equidistant from shelob cave), or tell them "go that way", split off, return, etc. Frodo and Sam don't know the area, but they're competent enough in woods and rough country to spot if they're being walked in circles. No, I'm with the people saying they're so used to him wandering off to scavenge gross poo poo to eat that they don't think anything much of him disappearing once they're close enough to Cirith Ungol that he can go and alert Shelob.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:31
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Wasn't there a point where they realise that they were in fact walking around in circles? Or was that movie only?
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Oct 20, 2021 16:38
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Wasn't there a point where they realise that they were in fact walking around in circles? Or was that movie only? That was after they leave the Fellowship but before they capture Gollum.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:40
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Wasn't there a point where they realise that they were in fact walking around in circles? Or was that movie only? at the start of two towers movie, when they get lost in the Emyn Muil. Right before Wood tries to make smelling a nasty bog sound sexy. Don’t remember if it’s from the book. But anyway just before they meet Gollum
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Oct 20, 2021 16:41
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I was in middle school or something and the part where Sam defeats Shelob was so cool I teared up.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:47
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SHISHKABOB posted:I was in middle school or something and the part where Sam defeats Shelob was so cool I teared up. quote:No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts, where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth, alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate.  Sam owns.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:55
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I was going to say that the Ents being morons was probably the most egregious thing the films did but then I remembered Denethor eating tomatoes
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Oct 20, 2021 16:59
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Ginette Reno posted:I was going to say that the Ents being morons was probably the most egregious thing the films did but then I remembered Denethor eating tomatoes Those tomatoes deserved it.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:04
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That bit rules, the movies don't need less personality Agreed that the ents aren't handled very well but whatcha gonna do
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Oct 20, 2021 17:05
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Blood Boils posted:That bit rules, the movies don't need less personality I mean I love it in a lot of ways. I love that someone decided to write that scene and that someone thought that filming that scene was a good idea.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:13
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https://twitter.com/angel_0f_deathx/status/1449879158360657922
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Oct 20, 2021 18:11
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The Denethor thing never bothered me all that much. It made sense in the way they portrayed it, the palantir drove him mad with despair, even if it did depart from his portrayal in the book. I don’t LOVE it, but it’s not as if “the mad king” isn’t a well known trope.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:53
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Maybe if they showed him using one . Which they don’t iirc
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Oct 20, 2021 18:54
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euphronius posted:Maybe if they showed him using one . Which they don’t iirc I think they do in the extended edition. But not in the theatrical version.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:57
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I think it’s alluded to because he still knows that the fleet from Umbar is coming up the river? But I don’t know that we ever actually see it in the movies.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:03
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I think the problem with the films is that no matter what, you have to end up with the dude trying to roast his own son alive. If you play his despair a bit more slowly and subtly like the book, you likely give the audience whiplash when this dude is suddenly about to cook his kid. Because of that, they turned his crazy up to 11. I don’t love it but I get why they did it.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:13
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I was much more bothered by what they did to Faramir in the movies, although I have to admit on my most recent re-read I did start to think that he's almost comically goody-two-shoes and that what Denethor says about him (in the books) is basically right. Like if they'd done movie Faramir the way he was in the books, he'd have been shot with a vaseline filter and constant backlighting, with the soundtrack doing an angelic choir every time he was onscreen.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:17
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Mahoning posted:The Denethor thing never bothered me all that much. It made sense in the way they portrayed it, the palantir drove him mad with despair, even if it did depart from his portrayal in the book. I'm with that. I love Denethor and his tragic arc in the book, but the movie was long and bloated and their speedrunning his madness was acceptable to me. Gandalf smacking him down got a hell of a cheer from an opening night audience and that was some fine energy whatever the departure from the book.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:24
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I need to rewatch the 2nd and 3rd movies sometime soon. I've rewatched 'Fellowship' many times, but rarely ever the other two. 'Fellowship' is a) the best one and b) has the fewest changes that annoy me. I have  of the recent 4K super ultra mega editions. I should watch those.
Imagined fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 19:26
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To be fair we never see Denethor using the palantir in the book either 
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Oct 20, 2021 20:04
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Data Graham posted:To be fair we never see Denethor using the palantir in the book either We do though! He uses it at the pyre before it is lit, just when Gandalf arrives. It magically glows and everything
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Oct 20, 2021 20:13
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Book Faramir is basically Book Denethor except without years of ineffective vigilance against Sauron/totured looks into a Palantir to drag him down. But he has the same Numenorean gifts that his father has such as long sight and unusual wisdom/intelligence. Book Denethor is a huge badass with wisdom and power to rival Gandalf's and I'm sad that movie Denethor is such a dunce. Book Denethor has also very justified reasons to judge Gandalf and company. Gandalf *is* trying to supplant him with Aragorn and he is trying to use Denethor and Gondor to overthrow Sauron. And Denethor is justifiably proud of his own strength and abilities and not wanting to bow down to some punk Ranger makes sense given Denethor is basically a strong king himself in all but name.
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Oct 20, 2021 21:00
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skasion posted:We do though! He uses it at the pyre before it is lit, just when Gandalf arrives. It magically glows and everything Yeah but he's not technically using it, just showing it off 
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Oct 20, 2021 21:07
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Yeah Book Denethor is a great character, I just don't know how you find time to do that justice in a movie that is overlong as it is. For example the dinner scene wherein Denethor, Pippin, and Gandalf talk does a tremendous job of communicating his nature to the reader, but do you shove that into the movie?
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Oct 20, 2021 21:09
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The elements of Denethor from the book that always stuck with me were his callous disregard for Faramir's safety in the run up to the siege of Minis Tirith, and the absolutely bananas nature of his death, and those are both things the movie gets across. So as more of a casual book reader I never really had a problem with the movie's portrayal of him. And it gave us a great scene in Legends of Tomorrow.
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Oct 20, 2021 21:11
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Ginette Reno posted:Book Faramir is basically Book Denethor except without years of ineffective vigilance against Sauron/totured looks into a Palantir to drag him down. But he has the same Numenorean gifts that his father has such as long sight and unusual wisdom/intelligence. yeah, agreed
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Oct 20, 2021 21:33
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I mean the main problem is no one could run from way back in The mountains all the way to the front of minas tirth WHILE ON FIRE
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Oct 20, 2021 21:37
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Movie Denethor running a mile on fire to throw himself off the precipice was worth it.
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Oct 20, 2021 21:55
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euphronius posted:I mean the main problem is no one could run from way back in The mountains all the way to the front of minas tirth WHILE ON FIRE Numenorean superpowers, dude.
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Oct 20, 2021 21:55
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denethor clearly had wings
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Oct 20, 2021 22:05
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They should have included Denethor’s whole final rant. Yeah yeah it tanks the pacing. I don’t give a gently caress, it’s awesome. “I will have naught.”
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Oct 20, 2021 22:09
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Arc Hammer posted:Movie Denethor running a mile on fire to throw himself off the precipice was worth it. 100% there is no way you skip that shot
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Oct 20, 2021 22:26
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“Pagan” also didn’t make Sense Unless he’s referring like way back to like … hador
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Oct 20, 2021 22:38
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Even those of you who don't like it keep making arguments in favor of movie Denethor So it's settled
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Oct 20, 2021 22:49
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Human sacrifice is a dark thing. Sauron introduced the Numenoreans to the practice. That’s probably what the remark is supposed to be alluding to
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Oct 20, 2021 22:51
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I interpreted the practice of the “heathen kings of old” was burning the dead but the living
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Oct 20, 2021 22:53
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