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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

hell yeah

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Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
Ironically, all the earlier PR brouhaha ended up as a positive influence, I guess. I imagine they went "ugh, fine, hope this will shut you up".

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

I'm becom-, I'm becom-,
I'm becoming
Tana in, Tana in my mind.



For those who didn't see: PF2E Beyond!

https://www.pathfindernexus.com

It's still in the very early stages with only the main rulebook line online for reading and nothing else yet. Individual book pricing appears to match DnD Beyond, but you get discounts for the PDFs you already own:

- If you already own the PDF, the $30 books become $20
- If you don't own the PDF, you get it when you buy the full book.
- No clue how this will eventually come into play with physical Paizo subscriptions or the discounts for other product lines

It's a better overall deal per book than DNDB, but still a bummer if you already own a lot of items. However, if you are going to use the system buying the book on Nexus and getting your own PDF as well may be worth considering.

I won't be buying anything yet until I see more content than just "read the rulebooks", but an official character builder/bestiary/adventure/combat tracker/etc. would be really cool.

e: Maybe there's also a discount for buying the physical books from Paizo directly? Not sure. Not showing up for me yet, or maybe it's the same and since I have the PDF I already have it?

Pinwiz11 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Oct 27, 2021

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants
I'm going to be running the PFS Scenario "The Mosquito Witch" this weekend as a Halloween one shot and I'd like some thoughts, spoiler for the end of the module ahead:

So the end is kind of lame as written. It's a Scooby Doo ending where it turns out the Witch was just a bunch of mitflits trying to scare people away. Or maybe it wasn't because the mine mysteriously collapses sometime after the adventure ends. I saw one person on reddit recommending that the GM play out the mine collapse right as the pcs finish talking to the non combat mitflits but I don't love that ending either. What are some ideas you guys might have for potentially satisfying endings? I do want to use the Mosquito Witch doll in creepy ways, with it just appearing places where they didn't leave it, so maybe something that incorporates that. I want to preserve a creepy, spooky tone for the adventure and it's hard enough to do that as it is in PF/DND so the ending might be a little bit of a let down as written.

Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013

Epi Lepi posted:

I'm going to be running the PFS Scenario "The Mosquito Witch" this weekend as a Halloween one shot and I'd like some thoughts, spoiler for the end of the module ahead:

So the end is kind of lame as written. It's a Scooby Doo ending where it turns out the Witch was just a bunch of mitflits trying to scare people away. Or maybe it wasn't because the mine mysteriously collapses sometime after the adventure ends. I saw one person on reddit recommending that the GM play out the mine collapse right as the pcs finish talking to the non combat mitflits but I don't love that ending either. What are some ideas you guys might have for potentially satisfying endings? I do want to use the Mosquito Witch doll in creepy ways, with it just appearing places where they didn't leave it, so maybe something that incorporates that. I want to preserve a creepy, spooky tone for the adventure and it's hard enough to do that as it is in PF/DND so the ending might be a little bit of a let down as written.

Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

Keep the misfits, but have them only have caused about half the shenanigans, with them having assumed that the PCs were causing the other half. Don't bother explaining anything, just run with whatever wildest and/or scariest line of thought the players speculate on.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged
Can somebody explain where the read I keep seeing around that says the 2E Magus is subject to attacks of opportunity when they Spellstrike (as opposed to regular casting) comes from? I don't see any keywords for the ability like manipulate that would trigger it, and it seems patently ludicrous that "do normal class action = get hit in face an extra time" for a melee attacker is the correct read, but I've seen a bunch of discussion with people apparently accepting that as the true RAW of the ability (and trying to argue this is not somehow broken) and I'm just bewildered why it's apparently so "obvious". Or are people just assuming it works like in 1E (without any cast defensively option)?

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
The argument is that Spellstrike's "Cast a spell" isn't any different from the standard cast a spell activity in terms of having the components and traits.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

MadDogMike posted:

Can somebody explain where the read I keep seeing around that says the 2E Magus is subject to attacks of opportunity when they Spellstrike (as opposed to regular casting) comes from? I don't see any keywords for the ability like manipulate that would trigger it, and it seems patently ludicrous that "do normal class action = get hit in face an extra time" for a melee attacker is the correct read, but I've seen a bunch of discussion with people apparently accepting that as the true RAW of the ability (and trying to argue this is not somehow broken) and I'm just bewildered why it's apparently so "obvious". Or are people just assuming it works like in 1E (without any cast defensively option)?

All spells with Somatic components have the Manipulate trait, which is specifically called out as a trigger for the Attack of Opportunity reaction.

There are no spellstrike eligible spells without Somatic components. Expanded Spellstrike opens up like... 5 options across ten spell levels and none of them are the good ones you want either.

See here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=283

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Nov 7, 2021

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


It’s not as crippling as it would be in other systems since only a fraction of enemies have reactions that trigger on Manipulate actions, but it does suck that there are circumstances where a class specialized in casting spells in melee gets penalized for casting spells in melee.

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.
If you look at Spellstrike, it very conspicuously doesn't have any traits besides "Magus." The way the game works, trying to use this action without "inheriting" traits from the component actions of Cast a Spell and Strike would be pretty nonsensical, so the most sensible option is to assume that each sub-action still retains its own traits.
For Cast a Spell, this means that spells with the Manipulate trait (from a somatic component) retain it, and still draw AoOs as if you were actually casting that spell on its own, outside of the context of a Spellstrike.

Personally I don't think it's a good way to have things set up, and the fact that there are basically no ways to mitigate it seem strange. It's not clear whether it's intentional or not, especially when they put a lot of clarifying language in for corner cases that were frankly relatively clear from a plain reading of the rules. This needs an understanding of a couple of semi-obscure rules interactions, if it was intentional and meant as a clear way of limiting the Magus I would've expected they'd mention it explicitly.
There's one feat that sort of mitigates it, Steady Spellcasting, but it's kind of poo poo and I half expect it's meant for a Magus casting, like, buffing spells, since class feats are overall usually meant for fairly specific corner cases, there's never supposed to be "obvious" or "default" choices.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

zachol posted:

If you look at Spellstrike, it very conspicuously doesn't have any traits besides "Magus." The way the game works, trying to use this action without "inheriting" traits from the component actions of Cast a Spell and Strike would be pretty nonsensical, so the most sensible option is to assume that each sub-action still retains its own traits.
For Cast a Spell, this means that spells with the Manipulate trait (from a somatic component) retain it, and still draw AoOs as if you were actually casting that spell on its own, outside of the context of a Spellstrike.

Personally I don't think it's a good way to have things set up, and the fact that there are basically no ways to mitigate it seem strange. It's not clear whether it's intentional or not, especially when they put a lot of clarifying language in for corner cases that were frankly relatively clear from a plain reading of the rules. This needs an understanding of a couple of semi-obscure rules interactions, if it was intentional and meant as a clear way of limiting the Magus I would've expected they'd mention it explicitly.
There's one feat that sort of mitigates it, Steady Spellcasting, but it's kind of poo poo and I half expect it's meant for a Magus casting, like, buffing spells, since class feats are overall usually meant for fairly specific corner cases, there's never supposed to be "obvious" or "default" choices.

So,

1) it’s worth noting that AoO’s usually don’t disrupt spells (only on a crit.). So while that magus feat is nice, it’s not actually necessary with respect to opportunity attacks. (It is more helpful with other interrupts, where the manipulate interaction we’re talking about here doesn’t matter anyway). The vulnerability to opportunity attacks is entirely about taking unnecessary damage.

2) every Hybrid Study actually does, in its own way, offer the Magus tools to specifically mitigate or manage this vulnerability.

Inexorable Iron gets free temp HP every round. (And easy access to reach weapons)
Laughing Shadow has the speed to outrun any attack that isn’t that opportunity attack (and a teleport for a focus spell)
Sparkling Targe has a higher AC than other Maguses and better Shield Block reactions for a reason - incidentally, you can Raise A Shield as the first action on your turn for exactly this reason. And you can use the Shield Block reaction on your own turn too.
Twisting Tree gets a reach weapon and later can feat to make it a reach weapon that works from literally short bow range.
Starlit Span uses a bow. ‘Nuff said.

Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Nov 7, 2021

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


It is still pretty annoying because the enemies who do have AOOs are generally the more dangerous kind and bosses so the magus is often at its worst against difficult enemies. Also as you go into higher levels the % of enemies with AOOs goes up significantly (in addition to straight up interrupting even without a crit becoming more common).

Andrast fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Nov 7, 2021

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

Andrast posted:

It is still pretty annoying because the enemies who do have AOOs are generally the more dangerous kind and bosses so the magus is often at it's worst against difficult enemies. Also as you go into higher levels the % of enemies with AOOs goes up significantly (in addition to straight up interrupting even without a crit becoming more common).

Plus 1 on this, at higher levels I think a quarter to a third of monsters have AoO and a significant chunk of the really dangerous ones disrupt on hit. At which point your melee magus becomes a bad martial or regularly gets their turn timewalked.

The magus is frustrating because apart from Spellstrike provoking its an ok chassis, it just got 0 spell support in Secrets of Magic and most of its feats are bad. The nerf its haste spell got is appalling coming out of the playtest.

It similarly annoys me that the feat Quick Draw provokes.

Canopus250
Feb 18, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

I'm going to be playing some 1st ed Pathfinder soon and wanted to dredge for some build or multi class suggestions for unarmored samurai builds. I was pretty easily able to plot out a Warrior Poet/VMC Rogue/Order of the Fey and Warrior Poet/Scaled Fist monk.

However I'm stuck on how cool the base concept of Brawling Blademaster Samurai is, but I'm not sure what it could combine well with. The Master of Many Styles monk archetype was suggested by one of the other players since it would give up flurry, but none of us had ever tried something like it. Are there some other cool ways to build on katana/unarmed strike two-weapon fighting?

All the other players have gotten a perk or two from the GM so he'd likely be open to a slight reworking of a class feature if it made sense.

Edit: The character can be either Str or Dex primary, but I'm really looking at Cha as the secondary stat.

Canopus250 fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Nov 7, 2021

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



Assuming you're not planning on doing the actual unarmored Sword Saint archetype for the Samurai class?

Canopus250
Feb 18, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

Specifically I'm wondering if anybody ever found something worth doing with the Brawling Blademaster archetype for Samurai. It seems like it would have synergy with taking monk levels (possibly brawler) but only with monk archetypes that eschew flurry of blows because you'd be focused on two weapon fighting instead.

It feels like it might be an underdeveloped archetype, but I don't have a high level of system mastery.

OutsideAngel
May 4, 2008
Virtuous Bravo Paladin has that sort of lightly armored warrior-retainer feel and a good Dex/Cha focus, four levels gets you Deeds and Divine Grace and two Smites

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Andrast posted:

It is still pretty annoying because the enemies who do have AOOs are generally the more dangerous kind and bosses so the magus is often at its worst against difficult enemies. Also as you go into higher levels the % of enemies with AOOs goes up significantly (in addition to straight up interrupting even without a crit becoming more common).

:hmmyes:

My first ever game with my magus I walked up to a relatively dangerous enemy, tried to load a shocking grasp into my flickmace, got crit on the 10 ft reach AOO and went to dying 2

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

HidaO-Win posted:

Plus 1 on this, at higher levels I think a quarter to a third of monsters have AoO and a significant chunk of the really dangerous ones disrupt on hit. At which point your melee magus becomes a bad martial or regularly gets their turn timewalked.

The magus is frustrating because apart from Spellstrike provoking its an ok chassis, it just got 0 spell support in Secrets of Magic and most of its feats are bad. The nerf its haste spell got is appalling coming out of the playtest.

Yeah, the AOO provoking is just a "screw this class" last straw on top of everything else. I gather the idea was a melee combatant who used spells to make one strong hit, but they put so many limits on it you probably often get better results making a gish who's a fighter/champion with spellcaster archetype feats.

quote:

It similarly annoys me that the feat Quick Draw provokes.

Yeah, they really need to think harder about the Manipulate tag, or at least making it a tag for every Interact action always. Quick Draw being "you have a lightning fast draw but these enemies can still manage to always hit you in the face before you do anything" definitely misses the thematic point of that ability. Got a similar stupid problem with the Rogue feat Mug (You're so clever and sneaky you can pickpocket enemies in combat! Except some of them apparently always know and hit you in the face!), and I rather suspect if you go examining magic items with interact tags you'll get some issues that pop up. Pretty sure a lot of AOO monsters are large or better, so you have reach making the problem even worse. Starting to think AOO should be a PC only trait, or at least only in boss monsters (and maybe not even then; making boss battles immobile affairs is kind of boring). Can't help but expect a lot of DMs aren't applying it evenly either; one wonders how often they reward Battle Medicine or Lay on Hands (a somatic casting spell!) with an AOO. For something that de facto bypasses their action economy (and can quite easily ruin PC actions) I don't know that the designers give it enough credit, especially with how often they hand out "AOO but even deadlier" as a thing on monsters.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Canopus250 posted:

Specifically I'm wondering if anybody ever found something worth doing with the Brawling Blademaster archetype for Samurai. It seems like it would have synergy with taking monk levels (possibly brawler) but only with monk archetypes that eschew flurry of blows because you'd be focused on two weapon fighting instead.

It feels like it might be an underdeveloped archetype, but I don't have a high level of system mastery.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but build questions beyond the most basic stuff frequently don't get a lot of traction in this thread just because there's not enough people doing that much buildcrafting (and a lot of the thread has moved on to 2e). You'd likely get better input from the Paizo forums themselves or shudder Reddit.

Canopus250
Feb 18, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

No worries, I didn't see much of anything useful for that archetype on Paizo. Most of the comments were somebody asking the same question in 2019 or complaining that it's too expensive to enchant both a weapon and unarmed strike. Figured it was worth a shot that somebody had tried it before.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Canopus250 posted:

No worries, I didn't see much of anything useful for that archetype on Paizo. Most of the comments were somebody asking the same question in 2019 or complaining that it's too expensive to enchant both a weapon and unarmed strike. Figured it was worth a shot that somebody had tried it before.

Well I guess it depends on your goals. If you want to be a crazy murdermachine then I don’t think there’s a way to really do that on the Samurai chassis or with that archetype in particular. Like, for example, the money issue is real and a Talk to Your GM moment if you go down that path.


But if the GM is cool and doesn’t force you to get hand wraps you can just optimize for regular Samurai stuff for the most part and you’ll be fine. Not great, but fine.

I would generally advise against too many dips like you mentioned in the other build though. There’s a few edge cases like Bolt Ace builds where big multiclassing is fine since you gain nothing past 5, but as a rule of thumb imo going past two classes ends up being booty.

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



Canopus250 posted:

No worries, I didn't see much of anything useful for that archetype on Paizo. Most of the comments were somebody asking the same question in 2019 or complaining that it's too expensive to enchant both a weapon and unarmed strike. Figured it was worth a shot that somebody had tried it before.

Since you're not getting more than normal unarmed strikes for your BAB, you could use a bodywrap of mighty strikes instead of an amulet of mighty fists and save some money there as long as you do any AoOs with sword. I'm not very good at figuring out multiclassing though, since I usually want to see a class's abilities progress (I hadn't seen that archetype before, it's pretty neat). I guess if you don't want to advance challenge or resolve or order abilities beyond a certain point, the archetype doesn't trade out anything significant after level 5 though.

boxen
Feb 20, 2011
I have a question about Extinction Curse, book 1 chapter 3:

My players are coming up on the start to chapter 3, and I'm wondering once they get to the Hermitage, what gets them to go down in the crypts? It seems that once they get through the vestibule where they rescue the mayor and into the "secure hallway" with the 2 named corrupted retainers, the retainers will attempt to talk the players into killing the ghouls (probably unsuccessfully). Assuming the players just kill the retainers and their pet slurk, why would the players have any reason to go into the crypt? The door is boarded shut and while they might hear noises behind it, I can't find a reason the campaign would need them to go down there, other than just getting rid of the ghouls.

My players have been looking for rewards and a "what's in it for us" when dealing with townsfolk, I can come up with something on my own (maybe the boards are showing signs of coming apart and they could get attacked from behind at some point) but am I missing something there? It seems entirely optional. I've read through the chapter a couple of times and searched online and it doesn't seem there's any incentive there.

Luebbi
Jul 28, 2000

boxen posted:

I have a question about Extinction Curse, book 1 chapter 3:

My players are coming up on the start to chapter 3, and I'm wondering once they get to the Hermitage, what gets them to go down in the crypts? It seems that once they get through the vestibule where they rescue the mayor and into the "secure hallway" with the 2 named corrupted retainers, the retainers will attempt to talk the players into killing the ghouls (probably unsuccessfully). Assuming the players just kill the retainers and their pet slurk, why would the players have any reason to go into the crypt? The door is boarded shut and while they might hear noises behind it, I can't find a reason the campaign would need them to go down there, other than just getting rid of the ghouls.

My players have been looking for rewards and a "what's in it for us" when dealing with townsfolk, I can come up with something on my own (maybe the boards are showing signs of coming apart and they could get attacked from behind at some point) but am I missing something there? It seems entirely optional. I've read through the chapter a couple of times and searched online and it doesn't seem there's any incentive there.


You're right, it is 100% optional. Nothing down there is story-relevant. If your players decide to skip it, that's totally cool and you shouldn't press them to go down there. In my case, me being totally cool with them not going down there made them all the more suspicious, and caused them to rip off the boards and go exploring. I actually thought it was kind of neat that there was an area that could be skipped entirely, only there to reward players who like to "reveal the whole map" and explore everything, but perfectly fine to skip if they're low on supplies.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004


I had the mayor plead with them to rescue his friend Hamdeel, who he was certain was being held against his will and had all the financial means of the hermitage at his disposal. At the rate we're playing we might finish book 1 this year, but players have already pretty much lost interest in the story and the lack of opportunity for actual circus performances is a bummer. Dunno if we'll continue into book 2.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged
Twisted and somewhat off-topic thought raised after looking through some Starfinder stuff I apparently got in a Humble Bundle deal or similar some time ago and just now read. If, say, somebody injected a velstrac or other Zon-Kuthon minion with painkillers, would that be like holy water in their veins or just really, REALLY offensive to them? Bonus points if you somehow got them addicted to painkillers too ("I'm just savoring the withdrawal symptoms, honest!"). Just have this image of trying to ward off the equivalent of Pinhead by waving an aspirin bottle in his face like a crucifix... :D

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

So, I'm playing through my first adventure. GM decided to do the adventure 'Abomination Vault' which from what I understand is a bit of a megadungeon. It's fair to say this game seems to have a lot of problems and this adventure seems like a bit of a mess but for some reason is really highly reviewed online. Our group is a Champion, Alchemist, Swashbuckler, and Wizard. We fought a few trivial fights with these not-goblins and then proceeded to play a lot of ridiculous rocket tag. I mean the swashbuckler was going down every fight from 1 hit but also was popping everything we had encountered in one hit as well. I had little ability to protect anyone as a Champion (I picked Redeemer but it seemed really tricky to put myself in spot that reaches both attacker and defender)and it kind of became a bit of a gag and comedy game at that point.

We didn't really know we were doing or what was happening as all the checks to learn information seemed particularly high and the GM ended up just filling us in anyway for some of it. I have no idea why you would hide the basics of your story behind difficult skill check to be honest. We had a fight with a not-goblin leader who surrendered but really didnt seem to have much useful information beyond there being worse stuff downstairs but nothing tangible.

Then we wondered into a room with a pool of blood in it, one of us approached it and triggered a haunt and then the group died with an enormous DC save vs death that caused bleeding to everyone. My champion did make the save but still took a chunk of damage and since everyone else had been obliterated we all decided that was stupid and pretended it didn't happen.

This genuinely seems like a bit of a hot mess of an introduction. The boss fight with the not-goblin and his spider pet was interesting even if it was rough which I can put down to silly level 1 rocket tag that they've not fixed but the haunt just seems ridiculous. We also encountered another one that was annoying to deal with but at least gave us a chance to make a decision and try to deal with it mechanically. This other haunt that came out of nowhere was some garbage Gygax Tomb of Annihilation era trash.

Why is this adventure rated so highly? Is this haunt just an anomaly and the level 1 problems I'm encountering just pathfinder 1.0 jank carrying over?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


kingcom posted:

So, I'm playing through my first adventure. GM decided to do the adventure 'Abomination Vault' which from what I understand is a bit of a megadungeon. It's fair to say this game seems to have a lot of problems and this adventure seems like a bit of a mess but for some reason is really highly reviewed online. Our group is a Champion, Alchemist, Swashbuckler, and Wizard. We fought a few trivial fights with these not-goblins and then proceeded to play a lot of ridiculous rocket tag. I mean the swashbuckler was going down every fight from 1 hit but also was popping everything we had encountered in one hit as well. I had little ability to protect anyone as a Champion (I picked Redeemer but it seemed really tricky to put myself in spot that reaches both attacker and defender)and it kind of became a bit of a gag and comedy game at that point.

We didn't really know we were doing or what was happening as all the checks to learn information seemed particularly high and the GM ended up just filling us in anyway for some of it. I have no idea why you would hide the basics of your story behind difficult skill check to be honest. We had a fight with a not-goblin leader who surrendered but really didnt seem to have much useful information beyond there being worse stuff downstairs but nothing tangible.

Then we wondered into a room with a pool of blood in it, one of us approached it and triggered a haunt and then the group died with an enormous DC save vs death that caused bleeding to everyone. My champion did make the save but still took a chunk of damage and since everyone else had been obliterated we all decided that was stupid and pretended it didn't happen.

This genuinely seems like a bit of a hot mess of an introduction. The boss fight with the not-goblin and his spider pet was interesting even if it was rough which I can put down to silly level 1 rocket tag that they've not fixed but the haunt just seems ridiculous. We also encountered another one that was annoying to deal with but at least gave us a chance to make a decision and try to deal with it mechanically. This other haunt that came out of nowhere was some garbage Gygax Tomb of Annihilation era trash.

Why is this adventure rated so highly? Is this haunt just an anomaly and the level 1 problems I'm encountering just pathfinder 1.0 jank carrying over?

I do not have experience with Abommination Vaults but going down in one hit that often does not sound very correct and probably shouldn't be happening unless the player got critted. Even with the squishiest options (so like an elf wizard with 10 con and a 6 HP ancestry) you should have 12 HP at lvl1 which should get you out of OHKO range outside of crits.

Paizo does have a tendency to have pretty brutal encounters in their adventures and AV is trying to go for that old school feel though

Andrast fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Nov 11, 2021

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

AV is specifically intended to evoke the feelings of old school dungeons where you have to run away from a lot of the encounters. I've run the entire thing and my players continued to have encounters they had to run from pretty much all the way up to the near the end of book 3. About that haunt it's only supposed to be active at night, so either you guys chose to explore what were apparently really dangerous ruins in the dark, or your DM can't read good. Anyway, that's why it's highly reviewed because a lot of people like that style of gameplay, and it's the style of gameplay most heavily associated with "megadungeon." If you aren't looking for that, probably the wrong AP, but that doesn't make it not good. It's possible you're just doing stuff wrong for rocket tag at level 1. I'm honestly not sure how you'd find glimpse hard to use, it's easily the best reaction in the game.

I think you should ask your DM if you guys can start with the beginners box instead. My players basically explored the first part of AV for a session or 2, and then after that we went directly into the beginners box (it takes place in Otari, where you would have started AV anyway.) and then went from there back into AV at maybe level 2.5. This takes a lot of the sting out of the dungeon for a while until the XP evens back out. That said, there're still plenty of hard encounters and they TPK'd twice over the 3 books.

Alternatively you could just do a different AP. Strength of Thousands has a super chill level 1 experience and is super fun so far, think we're about to hit 3 in our game, but not sure since I'm a player and not DMing.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants
Low level sucks rear end because of the Rocket Tag aspect. I will never run a game that starts before level 3 again, it’s just two swingy.

It shouldn’t be that hard to use your champion reaction, it has 15ft range so if you’re sticking by the Swash to try to get flanking and such you should be in range of any melee attackers. Your party is on the squishier side besides you which doesn’t help the going down all the time. Also you don’t have a great source of in combat healing right now. Lots of folks talk about how great the medicine skill and treat wounds are in PF2e but it’s not super helpful in combat until you get Battle Medicine and then it becomes more useful but still not as good as a cleric or Druid that’s stocked up on heal spells. I’m guessing you guys are depending on the alchemist to make potions and elixirs to heal which will be rough from an action economy standpoint, always need to use two actions to use the potion and then your turn is over, you get hit and you’re back to where you started.

Paizo adventures can be really tough especially at low level. Your GM could have you all at level 2 now and still have you be challenged without adjusting the fights which I did when I was running the first book of the Age of Ashes AP.

I can’t comment on the skill checks because I don’t know the DCs and what you’re rolling but for example going by the level by DC chart you need a 15 to pass an average level 1 task. The dcs probably have at least a plus 2 adjustment to many of them to represent their esotericism. If someone is trained and their ability score for the skill is max at level 1 that’s a +7 so it kind of makes sense. If it makes you feel better you probably haven’t missed out on any crucial knowledge yet.

I’m playing the same adventure as you but a little farther in. I’m liking it so far; good mix of combat and then retreating to town to RP with the townsfolk and the rest of the party. The reason people like it is that it actually is better balanced than previous APs for 2e and supposedly a strong story with RP opportunities despite being a dungeon crawl. My party is only on to the first basement so it’s still too early for me to agree or disagree with that but it does feel better than Age of Ashes book 1.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"
So one of the things about PF2 is that they upgunned hazards a lot. Rather than a hazard taking a few hp off you, hazards in PF2 have a good chance of killing a character.

Its usually about spotting them before you wander into one, so they give you a Perception test beforehand. Now some of them require expert skills or higher to spot which is the case with that particular hazard. It’s also listed as Stealth of +23 rather than a Stealth DC of 23 which makes it way harder to spot.

That hazard is also fairly nasty, the usual solution is to retreat away from it and deal with it in a level or twos time.

Worth remembering is that even if you get one shot, you can stabilise your character with a hero point. The bleed makes things awkward admittedly as well as dragging people out of it.

That said, it only activates at night and looks like total bad news so its definitely not one to wander into.

Lower levels are a little more swingy, but Abomination Vaults is well regarded for being a very cohesive experience with a strong straightforward narrative.

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."

HidaO-Win posted:


Lower levels are a little more swingy, but Abomination Vaults is well regarded for being a very cohesive experience with a strong straightforward narrative.
Yeah that's why Abomination Vaults is so highly regarded. For what effectively is a dungeon crawler its surprisingly got a fun and cohesive story. And its major problem* is that its a dungeon crawler meaning players can effectively wander into high level encounters quite readily. Kingcom is talking about a severe rated encounter that is gated off by an obstacle.

Now as for the skill check you aren't supposed to know what is going on because I believe its a rare DC. But you eventually do end up finding out eventually.

*Ok technically speaking it has a few monsters that need errata. I know on the first level there is one where Paizo admitted that it fundamentally broke monster creation rules and in later levels I just kind of laughed out loud while GMing because of how ridiculously deadly the encounter was.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Can I use the "Mage Hand" spell to like open doors and things like that? It says "an unattended item of 1 bulk or less" but like I'm not lifting a door just pulling on an "unattended" door knob?

Also any good Kobold Sorc minis? Found one on amazon but it won't ship for weeks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XYVVYDJ/ref=crt_ewc_img_dp_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ACTB8CBED46SR

There's also this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YI76P78/ref=crt_ewc_img_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2XU57CEZWMMS

Although from the picture it looks like rear end?

I'll check my local shop today but seems like slim pickings for a lizard bois

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


appropriatemetaphor posted:

Can I use the "Mage Hand" spell to like open doors and things like that? It says "an unattended item of 1 bulk or less" but like I'm not lifting a door just pulling on an "unattended" door knob?

Rules as written, no. The Mage Hand spell allows you to move an unattended object 20 feet. My guess is that this was specifically designed so that the party doesn't have a cantrip that lets you silently manipulate things at a safe distance, because opening doors/pulling levers/etc. from 30 feet away could bypass encounters and would take agency away from the party's rogue.

As for minis, Hero Forge lets you make fully custom 3D-printed minis. They're actually very good for the price.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Ah drat. Yeah it did seem pretty op to like yank ever sus lever and set off traps and poo poo. Well frees up a ça trip slot.

Miijhal
Jul 10, 2011

I am so tired... I am so tired all the time...
I mean, if you keep something like a basket on hand you can just move that to pull a level or door handle.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Okay so I'm thinking of going from Kobold Sorc --> Dwarf Fighter.

The party is probably Druid, Summoner, Alchemist, Cleric (maybe), and Champion. Do we have enough front line? I'm thinking basically everyone but the Champion are people that don't want to be in melee? Would having a fighter make more sense here than a Sorc?

It's a level 1-3 adventure.

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

appropriatemetaphor posted:

Okay so I'm thinking of going from Kobold Sorc --> Dwarf Fighter.

The party is probably Druid, Summoner, Alchemist, Cleric (maybe), and Champion. Do we have enough front line? I'm thinking basically everyone but the Champion are people that don't want to be in melee? Would having a fighter make more sense here than a Sorc?

It's a level 1-3 adventure.

Summoners tend to be frontline as well, at least the eidolon is probably up there. I don't think you guys would be hurt by having another melee combatant though. I'd go more damage focused so things want to hit you so the champion can use their reaction. Really if you want to minmax just play a bard so you can reap that 6 person Inspire Courage.

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appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

M. Night Skymall posted:

Summoners tend to be frontline as well, at least the eidolon is probably up there. I don't think you guys would be hurt by having another melee combatant though. I'd go more damage focused so things want to hit you so the champion can use their reaction. Really if you want to minmax just play a bard so you can reap that 6 person Inspire Courage.

What would damage focused mean? My current build I've got a Dwarven War Axe with a Steel Shield, Dwarven Weapon Familiarity (Dwarves don't know their own weapons by default??) and Power Attack feat.

My thinking is I can use the axe two handed with the extra power attack die for damage, but then have the option to release one hand to do things like trip or shove or pull out the shield for extra defense.

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