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"convert all arable land to cash crops and keep exporting them at market rates no matter how many people are dying, while also forcibly keeping out any industry from colonized areas because something something free market" is pretty standard market liberalism, not malthusianism. e: Feargus O'Connor may have been born in 1794 or perhaps 1796, the English having stolen all the numbers some years prior. Either way he had some opinions about all of the above. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 20:23
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I know this is a long shot but does anyone know where this is in London? It's a memorial mural of a friends sister, but he doesn't know where it's painted. I'm looking in your direction goddamntwisto
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Oct 22, 2021 20:24
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Necrothatcher posted:I know this is a long shot but does anyone know where this is in London? It's a memorial mural of a friends sister, but he doesn't know where it's painted. Well reverse Googling the picture brings this up from some mad blog. 
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Oct 22, 2021 20:30
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Huh it's not a real mural at all? Aw man my friend is going to be sad. 
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Oct 22, 2021 20:32
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From a reverse image search I am not 100% sure it is real. I have a large pile of results with different images painted on the wall. E: beaten.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:35
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Man you got a doggo. Mine was much weirder... 
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Oct 22, 2021 20:36
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From the profusion of results I think there might be, or have been an image generator somewhere that lets you upload a photo and adds it in to the mural with a filter.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:41
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looks like here: https://photolab.me/t/690
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Oct 22, 2021 20:42
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Guavanaut posted:Sounds interesting, what do you mean by 'original nazi eco-fascists' here? Soil association or more esoteric? Yeah mostly the blood and soil thing, but also going into its roots in nationalist romanticism. One would never have guessed a wandervogel could be so dark Gorn Myson posted:Going to start a rumour that you're Paul Mason. Gross. radmonger posted:Ecofascsim is a bit of a misnomer, as ‘eco’ comes from the modern science of ecology. And if you accept that you probably also accept climatology. and so all the various scientific and technological fixes that can solve (or least greatly mitigate) the problem within the bounds of normal democratic activism and politics. "The term ‘ecology’ itself was coined in 1867 by the German zoologist Ernst Haeckel, a man who ‘believed in Nordic racial superiority, strenuously opposed race mixing and enthusiastically supported racial eugenics’ (Staudenmaier, 18) and who ‘contributed to that special variety of German thought which served as the seed bed for National Socialism’ (Gasman XVII)."
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Oct 22, 2021 20:42
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As far as I can tell it was originally a mural to promote that Coldplay album.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:44
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But did Corbyn 'like' the mural This is important for some reason
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Oct 22, 2021 20:53
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with apologies to Mebh: also here online: https://funny.pho.to/street_graffiti/ (it's the same company: https://pho.to/photolab) I'm now intensely curious where that railway yard actually is; maybe there's some Geoguessr champion who can tell. But probably it's a privately purchased stock photo so reverse searching will be little help, even if the Internet weren't awash with near-clones. ronya fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 20:53
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With the 10+ year lag of emissions to actual temperature effects, and our current temperature being 1.3+ above the average (except the Arctic where it's 6+ due to positive feedback loops, try not to think about that one), the idea that we only have 1.5C locked in is loving laughable. Even the simple wikipedia article on the IPCC covers the influence George Bush and the Oil industry have had on them in the past. They have always been "conservative" with the numbers they release, against the advice of the actual science. They are laughably oudated, I cannot stress this enough. They are only just now starting to take into account secondary and tertiary effects of climate change that were mainstream around 15 years ago. If you are looking at the IPCC, and basing your idea of the future on their releases, then I'm sorry. I'm just sorry.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:09
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Ed It's nothing to do with Cold Play after all. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 21:23
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ronya posted:with apologies to Mebh: Late to the party but I'd be very surprised if it was in London, or even the UK. I suspect someone even more anoraky than me could probably narrow it down based purely on the design of the catenary, but I just can't think of anywhere in the UK that would have that combination of still-in-infrequent-use, non-ballast track (the sort of thing you only really get at freight sidings here) and electrification. Maybe an internal system for a factory or mine or something but they're even less likely to be electrified. Based purely on what I thought when I first glanced at it I'm going to say it's actually somewhere in eastern Europe/ Someone will probably pop up to call me a twat and say it's just the end of the Sheffield tram system, to which I say I care about Sheffield about as much as I do Dubrovnik so nyer.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:29
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Seems to be in Romania: (or Moldovia - I'm not sure.) Ed wrong again - it's fake. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 21:36
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Guavanaut posted:"convert all arable land to cash crops and keep exporting them at market rates no matter how many people are dying, while also forcibly keeping out any industry from colonized areas because something something free market" is pretty standard market liberalism, not malthusianism That would seem to suggest the post-1945 absence of peacetime famines shows we are not living under market liberalism? Seems more accurate to say Liberalism + Malthusianism gives you famines, liberalism + scientific ecology gives you Band Aid. Whereas Fascism + Malthusianism skips the inconvenient wait until the next time a crop pest hits, allowing you to get on with the glorious work of population reduction straight away. It’s hard to imagine a political philosophy that could compensate for the particular way in which Malthusian is wrong. “Thomas Carlyle” posted:This cannot last, Heaven disowns it, Earth is against it; Ireland will be burnt into a black unpeople land of ashes rather than this should last… “charles Edward Trevalyn” posted:An effective method for removing surplus population … the real evil we have to contend with is not the physical evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people’. Those are not people doing rational and correct economic calculations about how much money they can make, given a choice of a large population or a small one. They are people propounding passionate moral ideas about the killing that Must be Done.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:38
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Chisinau is in Moldova. Decent enough place. It has 24 hour bars that also do food all night which is VERY dangerous
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Oct 22, 2021 21:39
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Jakabite posted:Chisinau is in Moldova. Decent enough place. It has 24 hour bars that also do food all night which is VERY dangerous I've a moldavian friend so I should be ashamed of myself. Seems the whole thing is a fake anyway. 20 mins of procrastination anyway 
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Oct 22, 2021 21:40
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Late to the party but I'd be very surprised if it was in London, or even the UK. I suspect someone even more anoraky than me could probably narrow it down based purely on the design of the catenary, but I just can't think of anywhere in the UK that would have that combination of still-in-infrequent-use, non-ballast track (the sort of thing you only really get at freight sidings here) and electrification. Maybe an internal system for a factory or mine or something but they're even less likely to be electrified. in anoraks there's also the vegetation and tagging styles, I suppose... albeit I don't know those either some of this looks suggestive: https://grafs.diroots.info/bruxelles-de-wand-station/ nothing matches quite right, though. On the other hand, the photolab site seems to be about a decade old and stock photos could be even older.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:57
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah mostly the blood and soil thing, but also going into its roots in nationalist romanticism. One would never have guessed a wandervogel could be so dark Ok you got me there; I wasn’t aware the word was that old, I thought it was a neologism when the modern field was founded in the 1950s. Maybe oecofascism would actually carry the intended meaning that the underlying premise is based on the worst of 19C parascience?
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Oct 22, 2021 22:03
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RockyB posted:You do know what the current discourse is with a significant number of climatologists, right? Much of what your pick of slides says is simply doomerism/appeal to nature fallacy. A lack of an abstract sense of respecting Gaia isn't the cause of climate change, decoupling may not be sufficient to enable the current system to continue but what the guy says implies that no human activity can be made less environmentally damaging because we're all ~a part of nature~. The argument to make is that rampant consumerism and resource use can't be sustained by any existing technology and that we need to redirect the world economy towards building long term sustainable things (most likely requiring massive land reform and booting out capitalists). Partial decoupling by substituting low carbon energy for land and resource use is absolutely part of that.
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Oct 22, 2021 22:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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i think technology holds the answer and so do all of you really.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:17
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Yes, that one of my three examples of current academic thought is a bit woo woo gaia. The first is a from an ecological economist who explains the whole conceptual lens problem quite succinctly, and the third is a more standard 'things keep getting worse but if people start paying attention and listening something can still be done!' article. In all three the point remains the same though. We have fundamentally taken advantage of an energy source that has taken millions of years to accumulate, and burnt through half of it in the last 30 years. There is no replacement. A much more detailed examination of why, in my opinion at least, 'redirecting the world economy' at this stage is far too little and too late can be had from the Geological Survey of Finland: https://tupa.gtk.fi/raportti/arkisto/42_2021.pdf quote:Current expectations are that global industrial businesses will replace a complex industrial energy ecosystem that took more than a century to build. The current system was built with the support of the highest calorifically dense source of energy the world has ever known (oil), in cheap abundant quantities, with easily available credit, and seemingly unlimited mineral resources. The replacement needs to be done at a time when there is comparatively very expensive energy, a fragile finance system saturated in debt, not enough minerals, and an unprecedented world population, embedded in a deteriorating natural environment. Most challenging of all, this has to be done within a few decades. It is the author’s opinion, based on the new calculations presented here, that this will likely not go fully to as planned. Back to what I was originally responding to, which is the idea that market forces and the current political structure can limit us to 1.5 degrees warming and people should 'leave the climatology to the climatologists'. A lot of those climatologists are far more fatalistic than might be acknowledged in polite society. In the UK marxism thread I think we can make the argument that the fundamental problem isn't *really* climate change, it's a political ideology of Don't Rock the Boat backed up by neoliberal capitalism that prevents us from improving things somewhat. Thus far, nobody has come up with a solution for that - can't make a man understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it etc. Ten years ago I wouldn't have thought about this stuff at all and blithely carried on with an I'm alright jack life. After becoming far more involved in left wing thought and having experienced the last few years, I now have trouble seeing it from any other viewpoint. RockyB fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:26
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NotJustANumber99 posted:i think technology holds the answer and so do all of you really. The technology of spontaneously combusting?
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Oct 22, 2021 23:34
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spontaneously combusting takes less energy than requiring fossil fuels to make you combust
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Oct 22, 2021 23:59
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https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1451644064554790925
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Oct 23, 2021 01:18
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RockyB posted:A much more detailed examination of why, in my opinion at least, 'redirecting the world economy' at this stage is far too little and too late can be had from the Geological Survey of Finland: https://tupa.gtk.fi/raportti/arkisto/42_2021.pdf Yes, that one is a lot better, and correspondingly really really hard to interpret as doomist, unless you go in cherry picking stuff out of context. The key point is it takes as the starting point that everyone in the world who wants a car will be able to get one. It then ask what it would mean if all those cars were electric, which naturally involves massive amounts of batteries and power generation. Hence why you get into constraints like running out of uranium in a few hundred years. This is where it differs from other reports, which assume the division between first and third world continues, so only first world emissions need to be worried about. As such it is much more optimistic, in that it looks like even that utopian improvement on the world barely falls outside the currently feasible. A pretty standard combined nuclear and renewables strategy gets you most of the way there. One new battery technology, power generation method or whatever commercialised sometime within the next 50 years and everyone in the world is at least as well off as a contemporary Finn. The downside is that if we don’t hit that scenario, then we might well not fall slightly short of it, but massively so. Because then it starts to seem locally rational to start wars to avoid being the one of the countries locked out of prosperity. Which then diverts effort and attention into fighting, and rebuilding from, those wars, to the point where there is a real risk of the circle of first world countries starting to shrink. I could definitely see both the UK and USA losing first world status; bets could be taken on who would be out first.
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Oct 23, 2021 02:16
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Spicy take: They’re gonna offer Brillo Pad Klientssberg’s job.
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Oct 23, 2021 09:41
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radmonger posted:The downside is that if we don’t hit that scenario, then we might well not fall slightly short of it, but massively so. Because then it starts to seem locally rational to start wars to avoid being the one of the countries locked out of prosperity. Which then diverts effort and attention into fighting, and rebuilding from, those wars, to the point where there is a real risk of the circle of first world countries starting to shrink. This whole post reads as ridiculously optimistic to me. I mean, to take just one country as an example, in India alone there are more than a billion people who will literally be able to no longer live where they are a few years from now, due to climate change loving up the environment completely. It seems pretty predictable to me that once you have literally one thousand million climate refugees, there will be wars. It is also pretty predictable that the reaction of every non-refugee country to this will be "shoot the refugees" (i.e. more wars). It also seems pretty predictable to me that once the world economy gets completely hosed up due to the unprecedented numbers of people getting their lives completely hosed up and becoming refugees, this will have an impact on "first world countries" whose economies will then "shrink"; where by "first world countries" I mean "literally every country" and by "shrink" I mean "get completely hosed up". But hey, maybe electric cars will save everything 50 years from now.
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Oct 23, 2021 10:04
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Or now.
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Oct 23, 2021 10:32
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smellmycheese posted:Spicy take: They’re gonna offer Brillo Pad Klientssberg’s job.
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Oct 23, 2021 11:48
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one weird trick to save the environment has been a repeated tactic since at least the mid 90s and absolutely none of the dahir insaat style wonder machines have panned out whatsoever bar the folk making a lot of venture capital money and then loving off and all that while the situation has steadily been getting worse the solutions to climate change are in mitigation/prevention of the worst of it and adaptation to a new situation. There are excellent, proven methods for both and none of them are compatible with endless profit growth under capitalism so they won't happen under a capitalist system just as they haven't happened in the last three decades of poo poo steadily getting worse. we are now watching the collapse of the first global civilisation from the inside- if historical collapses are anything to go by then it's probably going to be a long, drawn out and utterly miserable affair so I suggest you go out and look at some trees/enjoy a book/listen to a good album etc because the world still has some real beauty in it- if it didn't it wouldn't be such a shame it was all getting so hosed up.
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Oct 23, 2021 11:49
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Entirely unrelated of course, but I’d recommend the Fall Of Civilisations podcast to the thread, it’s interesting and good and only a little bit alarming how familiar many of each episode’s themes are
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Oct 23, 2021 11:56
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Waking up to a negative rona test is a pretty good way to wake up.
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Oct 23, 2021 12:05
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Waking up to a negative rona test is a pretty good way to wake up. Same, high five
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Oct 23, 2021 12:11
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lol https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1451551042924068878?s=20
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Oct 23, 2021 12:12
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https://twitter.com/thelowse/status/1451271763514511360
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Oct 23, 2021 12:25
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that's art right there
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Oct 23, 2021 12:27
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Regarde Aduck posted:that's art right there Raab must have a hell of a lot of compromising material on Boris to be where he is now. In other news, in the latest episode of the wrong person being right https://twitter.com/BritishSave/status/1451814958979760133 e: His farming series is actually really good. I genuinely wanted to hate it and him in it... but he actually did a good job imo.
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Oct 23, 2021 12:32
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