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raminasi posted:there is a very good chance that the place you called has specific policies in place that funnel cold callers to a small number of very specific people for very specific reasons and shut everyone else down for information security reasons. i do think you’re overestimating the size of this organisation, maybe i’m underestimating but.. they only employ one pharmacist at a time, and I suspect it’s not even a full time position. kalel posted:drat it I came here to complain and wallow in my inability to get a job but between echinopsis hogging the pity party* and pizza.bat's awesome post I have no excuse now sorry man I didn’t mean it to pan out that way. yesterday was awful lol. thank god it’s now saturday and I can look forward to getting drunk tonight CarForumPoster posted:Just one hiring persons opinion: I like to hope that sometimes the people hiring are real humans who can see the potential of other people, rather than some people who (and maybe enforced by some kind of company policy) have strict ideas about the ways things have to work
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Oct 23, 2021 00:35
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a lot of them are real people. the problem, as always, is free market capitalism, especially in the case of public companies. they are beholden to shareholders, who demand growth/profits, and so the company must prove to them that it has pursued them with best reasonable effort. an integral part of that is making a case that the company runs efficiently, which in turn is proven by having endless sets of “bespoke” guidelines and process flows governing everything, from kitchen coffee procurement to hiring. now, shareholders are not stupid, and know better than to trust the company, which in turn means audits. and your real person on the other hand has a real risk of being fired for stepping outside their instructions, as a consequence also, especially in the current year and more so with prestigious jobs - it’s worth keeping in mind that the job position is seeing hundreds of applications filled per day, almost always for fewer than 10 people to handle alongside with whatever else is going on in their day
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Oct 23, 2021 00:44
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echinopsis posted:I like to hope that sometimes the people hiring are real humans who can see the potential of other people, rather than some people who (and maybe enforced by some kind of company policy) have strict ideas about the ways things have to work this is a very doesnt understand what hiring is like answer. put yourself in their shoes, where a job req has 100+ applicants. you still have your regular job to do while also wading through these 100+ applicants. someone calls and wants special treatment, indicating they don’t understand working at your place, do you take the call? you don’t have job req/budget authority and someone calls wanting a job that pays with money you don’t have authority for, you have your team to support and a normal job to do. you get 1+ of these calls per week. do you take the call? no, you don’t. and that’s not even getting in to the many calamities that happen during interviewing that can make you jaded it has 0 to do with a lack of humanity and everything to do with supporting your actual employees, being fair to the applicants who DID follow the process. ditch that whole line of thinking because it leads to you doing stuff like cold calling for jobs because you don’t understand how a business functions edit: this logic is about cold calling, warm introductions do not work this way and are good in most situations CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 01:22
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cold calling is only acceptable if the job you are applying for is a cold calling sales job, in that case it’s a boss move
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Oct 23, 2021 02:15
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i currently work in the biggest organisation i’ve ever worked in. i think there’s like 15 people? I got this job coz they were desperate and needed a locum, and then they kept me on. now I manage a pharmacy, very poorly I might add.CarForumPoster posted:it has 0 to do with a lack of humanity and everything to do with supporting your actual employees, being fair to the applicants who DID follow the process. ditch that whole line of thinking because it leads to you doing stuff like cold calling for jobs because you don’t understand how a business functions to be clear I wasn’t talking about cold calling, was talking about the dude who had a 2 year gap in tech work. and the general idea that someone who is interviewing or hiring being able to see a competent person even if the CV isn’t ideal. but it was correct to assume I know gently caress all. suppose most I can hope for is that someone doesn’t laugh in my face i’m beginning to feel .. pathetic .. lol well I mean more than normal anyway. how much does it cost to hire a hitman on myself anyway.
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Oct 23, 2021 02:41
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that's enough echi
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Oct 23, 2021 02:43
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same
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Oct 23, 2021 02:51
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you could work for tiny companies forever and get by on pure human connection. but keep in mind, a company that can afford an HR department and a folder full of hiring policies is also a company that can afford to pay you market rate to do very little work
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Oct 23, 2021 05:21
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yeah I hate it that I genuinely have to do work. as soon as I get to work I have to make up the methadone for the cool methadone crowd and then do some more work!! then someone comes in and shows me their toes.
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Oct 23, 2021 05:55
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usually you gotta pay for that
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Oct 23, 2021 06:30
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wonder if the key to true happiness is being a bisexual podiatrist
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Oct 23, 2021 06:36
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Shaggar posted:i really should qualify it as companies that dont want to pay well are desperate. if they have money they can find the talent they need.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:36
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about a month ago i had 4 different companies approach me through my professional network, apparently out of the blue. this wasnt linkedin spam or anything, 3/4 of the contacts were phone calls from people i had worked with before, trying to poach me, and the fourth was a friend of a friend. i took one of those jobs, at a 35% increase in base, 50% increase in total comp if the stock bonuses work out like they suggest. i wasnt looking for work at all, and i only have 4 years of experience out of college (with a bachelor's degree, at that). the market seems extremely hot to me. there were like 150 people who started the same week as me at this company worldwide, lol. hiring like crazy
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Oct 23, 2021 07:13
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Gazpacho posted:echi i want to "amen" this because so much of the grind of computer job searching would be easier to take if companies didn't constantly harp about being desperate for people. they're desperate, but not desperate enough to change their own behavior these companies will never change their behavior because it is better for the class of people who control them to fold the company than bend behavior
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Oct 23, 2021 14:20
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got an offer at a pretty large enterprise healthcare software company. like a billion plus in revenue, pretty cool coming from a start up. This large company purchased a start up that was like 5 or 6 years old, the rest of the small team bailed after their payouts so its the lead technical and the lead product guy who is also the founder. Pays 150K, no stock or anything, 10-20% bonuses based on ~stuff~ , work life balance seems nice and my calculus here is that I'll get exposed to a real company that is large and operating at scale to dovetail with my start up experience. Its a very mature company thats been in business for a long time and has a serious market share. My concern is that they use off-shore indian devs and I've never worked with them. All I've heard from my limited previous start up experience is that off-shore dev situations are best avoided and if you walk into them be prepared to have to really micro-manage, overly specify stuff and write incredibly detailed user stories and requirements. The hiring manager and lead product guy mentioned they've been with them the whole time and its his team so maybe....better? But I'm not really sure if I should take it or decline. The role will be responsible for integrating this start ups product into the wider enterprise suite to being with and than going from there so I expect alot of HL7 based API work to start with. any thoughts? how annoying is running off-shore dev teams and such? I also wrote a bunch of API's for my old company but like solution level style stuff like code: Also as a friendly reminder since it's just happened to me....government contracts means a drug test is part of the offer E: A product role btw not software engineering or anything actually technical capital T like you guys Waroduce fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 14:53
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Waroduce posted:got an offer at a pretty large enterprise healthcare software company. like a billion plus in revenue, pretty cool coming from a start up. This large company purchased a start up that was like 5 or 6 years old, the rest of the small team bailed after their payouts so its the lead technical and the lead product guy who is also the founder. Pays 150K, no stock or anything, 10-20% bonuses based on ~stuff~ , work life balance seems nice and my calculus here is that I'll get exposed to a real company that is large and operating at scale to dovetail with my start up experience. Its a very mature company thats been in business for a long time and has a serious market share. Ime working with offshore devs sucks if you're their peer having to wade through their lovely code. Otherwise, they give product people a deliverable, just like as if the team was local.
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Oct 23, 2021 14:59
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Captain Foo posted:these companies will never change their behavior because it is better for the class of people who control them to fold the company than bend behavior nah they're just really loving dumb
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Oct 23, 2021 15:11
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you can hire good offshore devs same as you can hire good local devs, but if a company is going offshore its because they're cost cutting and if they're cost cutting why not go all the way? this leads to most offshore dev interactions people have being bad. when you have bad devs (regardless of where they are) you have to constantly micro-manage them to keep them from making GBS threads all over everything and if those devs are offshore (especially in india) it means huge offsets in working hours. so either you have them work your hours, in which case you get the junior offshore devs who cant say no, or you have some more senior, more expensive devs who will require you to work closer to their hours. kind of the exception here is if the offshore devs are employees of your company in an established office with the same team structure you have. that way you dont have to actually manage them and its more of a collaborative effort between teams. there are obviously other challenges there, but its generally a way better experience for everyone involved.
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Oct 23, 2021 15:26
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sounds like a company i talked to earlier this year called cardinal health. i turned them down
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Oct 23, 2021 15:35
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Shaggar posted:nah they're just really loving dumb
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Oct 23, 2021 16:51
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the golden rule of offshore dev is that you will get great results if you pay up the gold. 70k usd in bangalore, you can almost certainly get quality devs. 10k usd in bangalore, almost certainly not
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Oct 23, 2021 19:20
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I don’t know what we pay them, but we have an office in Trivandrum and some of the guys working there are very very good.
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Oct 23, 2021 19:27
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shaggar was referring to the pay gap but i wasn't particularly
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Oct 23, 2021 19:51
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Figured I would follow up on some of my posts from months ago asking for job advice: Interviewed several places, turned down one job offer for a "solutions consultant" that was a glorified sales position, and am starting Monday as a Systems Analyst. I'll be working with a much more modern tech stack with more time spent on web development, along with much more freedom in designing solutions and choosing platforms for processes. I'll be making about 50% more than I was previously and I am very happy with that. I don't have to move and I'm still 60% remote. My spoiled dog will get even more spoiled (primary career financial goal right there) and I'm on track to pay off all my student loans in less than two years. I wanted to thank everyone that answered my questions and gave me some guidance.
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Oct 28, 2021 01:02
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Ardemia posted:Figured I would follow up on some of my posts from months ago asking for job advice:  stack that paper
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Oct 28, 2021 01:08
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congrats
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Oct 28, 2021 01:22
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Waroduce posted:All I've heard from my limited previous start up experience is that off-shore dev situations are best avoided and if you walk into them be prepared to have to really micro-manage, overly specify stuff and write incredibly detailed user stories and requirements. in my last job, some of the best techs i worked with were offshore in my current job, the offshores are logging “IN FIRST BRANCH OF IF CONDITION” at INFO level. in short, offshore is a land of contrasts
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Oct 28, 2021 01:22
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Ardemia posted:Figured I would follow up on some of my posts from months ago asking for job advice: 
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Oct 28, 2021 02:47
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Ardemia posted:Figured I would follow up on some of my posts from months ago asking for job advice: 
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Oct 28, 2021 04:16
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I haven't had to do an interview in over 13 years, but I would like to be employed somewhere in the near future. Is "Dear Hiring Manager" still the right way to open a cover letter? Also, who the gently caress posts a job with a salary range of $35,000-135,000? There has to be a typo but where, specifically? Not that it matters, the posting was deleted and 135k is nowhere near enough for a 5x10 work week and requirement to be on call 24/7.
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Oct 28, 2021 20:01
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My guess is that they post a salary range to comply with new pay equality laws a lot of states have passed but they make the range huge so that the information is completely worthless.
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Oct 28, 2021 20:11
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a dingus posted:My guess is that they post a salary range to comply with new pay equality laws a lot of states have passed but they make the range huge so that the information is completely worthless. If true, IMO the information is really valuable in that I can see the company resents having to comply with laws that impart basic humanity on workers. Don't need the salary for somewhere I don't wanna work.
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Oct 28, 2021 20:45
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Ardemia posted:Figured I would follow up on some of my posts from months ago asking for job advice: another yospos success story
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Oct 29, 2021 16:32
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GWBBQ posted:I haven't had to do an interview in over 13 years, but I would like to be employed somewhere in the near future. Is "Dear Hiring Manager" still the right way to open a cover letter? i would have noped out at "requires cover letter"
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Oct 31, 2021 02:10
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a recruiter messaged me on linkedin and opened with "I recently helped your colleague [name here] find a new role are you open to new roles?" without any sort of prompting or previous relevant conversation. that person hasn't handed in their notice yet and as far as I know hasn't told anyone at our org yet, some recruiters are just loving dicks
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Nov 1, 2021 04:44
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Xik posted:a recruiter messaged me on linkedin and opened with "I recently helped your colleague [name here] find a new role are you open to new roles?" without any sort of prompting or previous relevant conversation. what a dick on the other hand this person is apparently an effective recruiter which is just as rare as the nice but ineffectual recruiter
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Nov 1, 2021 08:03
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qsvui posted:i would have noped out at "requires cover letter" Getting paid to do nothing might sound good at face value, but when you have to spend 8 hours a day keeping a chair warm doing nothing, having to pretend that you're doing something, and attending meetings where all you can do is talk out of your rear end about the things you "did" turns into a living hell way faster than you would ever imagine. I looked at US Forest Service jobs a few months ago in the hope that I could never have to look at a computer again, but all they had open were IT jobs.
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Nov 1, 2021 08:31
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Trying to jump subfields closer to what I studied for my masters a decade ago, managed to land a tech screen over the phone, but it became clear very quickly that the material I had reviewed wasn't enough to shake off the rust that had built up over the course of the past ten years. However, the manager actually offered a chance for me to come back at a later date after taking more time to go over my course notes. I've never had this happen before - should it be an indication that they're having trouble finding a candidate, a red flag that the organization is desperate for workers of any quality, or what?
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Nov 2, 2021 04:35
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that was someone being nice to you. maybe they liked you, maybe they were just trying to be nice it's not a red flag, but also don't count on it
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Nov 2, 2021 04:36
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it says they're thinking they'll still be hiring for that position when you have studied up and re-applied, which i guess could be a red flag. like if this is a small business that hires one new person every couple of years then that might be a bit of a side-eye. if it's a larger company with steady turnover that's basically always hiring for that role then it doesn't mean anything. if they were desperate for workers of any quality they'd have just hired you and hoped that on-the-job training would be sufficient to bring you up to speed.
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Nov 2, 2021 06:11
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