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I felt kinda guilty cheesing Escue by Speed boosting into the room and shine sparking into them during their animation before they get electrified. It didn't one-shot them but it made the fight much shorter. I think my only complaint about this game is that the intense combat encounters feel really close together, which is effective to be sure, but I'm the kind of person who wants to explore a bunch after getting a new ability from a boss. Sometimes they lock off the rest of the map until you beat the encounter so there's no chance to get missing energy tanks and missile packs. I appreciate the surprise though.
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Oct 23, 2021 19:30
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:10 |
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Ran through on Normal again and tried a bunch of sequence breaking, which just caused me to be more confused about where to go so it took me nearly five hours to beat the game with 71% items. I really need a good plan before my next run. I want to do the sequence breaks that don’t involve glitches (early Grapple Beam, Bombs, Cross Bombs, Gravity Suit, Screw Attack*) but in doing so I didn’t always know where I should go next and ended up doing a lot of backtracking. Do the sequence breaks end up saving time? They make certain bosses super easy but I dunno if the time saving is offset by having to backtrack.
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Oct 23, 2021 19:44
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Ran through on Normal again and tried a bunch of sequence breaking, which just caused me to be more confused about where to go so it took me nearly five hours to beat the game with 71% items. I really need a good plan before my next run. I want to do the sequence breaks that don’t involve glitches (early Grapple Beam, Bombs, Cross Bombs, Gravity Suit, Screw Attack*) but in doing so I didn’t always know where I should go next and ended up doing a lot of backtracking. Do the sequence breaks end up saving time? They make certain bosses super easy but I dunno if the time saving is offset by having to backtrack. Yeah, I think the early grapple and bombs don't really save that much time and feel like they need you to go out of your way. Early gravity suit feels like it could save time, but it's a gamble, since you need to now do Experiment without space jump or storm missile, as well as a short infinite bomb jump to climb a section that you'd normally use space jump in, but the back tracking itself is minimal and it means you can do Escue with Screw Attack. Early Cross bombs seems like the most novelty sequence break. But all of these sequence breaks might be useful in a speed 100% since they could reduce later backtracking?
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Oct 23, 2021 20:47
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I killed the Experiment boss in like, two minutes using a shinespark, you don’t need either of those things to make it easy. Sequence breaking was a time saver in earlier games (like getting the wave beam early in Super or skipping certain items in Zero Mission) so it’s kinda weird that you have to go so far out of your way to do it in Dread.
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Oct 23, 2021 20:53
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There are a ton of fast sequence breaks in Dread. It's just a lot of thema aren't intentional.
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Oct 23, 2021 20:59
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My remarks are on sequence breaking without glitches. Early Grapple definitely saves on backtracking since you can go straight from Dairon to Burenia to Ferenia and Ghavoran. Early Super Missile is questionable IMO since it's a harder shinespark puzzle for a one-off. Early Gravity Suit shaves like half of Burenia off and definitely cuts down on backtracking. Early Screw Attack really just puts the backtracking in Artaria instead of going to Artaria to Cataria and then back to Artaria. However, it allows early Cross Bombs which lets you complete the rest of Ferenia in one go.
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Oct 23, 2021 21:47
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Early Grapple opens up some shortcuts back on the critical path (nothing major) so I'd say get it on the way to not-Maridia, but getting it early enough to get early Bombs and backtrack to the boss which has a bomb quick-kill is a lot of going out of your way, so that just becomes regular Bombs? I think? I've lost track of the proper path. Early Supers is fun to do but only speeds up a couple of fights before you'd get it proper. Time-wise it's probably a wash at best. Early Gravity is worth taking even if you're at the normal time to get Gravity, as long as you can pull off the very tight speed charge. That could have used one more square of room. Early Screw Attack is very useful if doing the intended boss before getting Seekers, it one-shots the hands which are otherwise a pain. Particularly if you get Early Space Jump to reach the top ones, and that's easier (but not required) to get with Early Cross Bombs. So those are all in a cluster of "figure out which ones you're gonna grab". Note that once you get Gravity you're not getting anywhere else without that boss dead and Screw Attack. I mean... I guess you could kill the boss and find a way out the other side of the zone, but at that point not getting Screw Attack is intentional bad play. Doing those leaves you set up to do Late Seekers and hit Ferenia all in one go aside from the Space Jump dip (EMMI evading is hilarious with the Gravity Suit, I highly recommend it for that reason. Mobile in the water and Screw Attack means electricity immunity). Do note that the elevator from Ferenia to Hanubia needs to be opened from the H side, so when going back to Ferenia from the Screw Attack I'd suggest going by way of Hanubia but it's a six-of-one situation. Everything's kinda nearby, but it feels more elegant. Bruceski fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 22:05
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By the way, you all were right that shooting the end boss during his first phase causes him to use that big energy attack which, if dodged, triggers a cutscene where you can do a counter and pump him full of missiles. It’s part of the flashback cutscene where Samus fights Raven Beak right after arriving on ZDR. It literally shows you how to beat his first phase.
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Oct 23, 2021 22:23
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Actually managed to beat a video game. 100% normal clear in 11:04. I was actually pretty impressed at how much fun the shinespark puzzles were once I got the hang of them. https://twitter.com/EchophonicSA/status/1451975282261311488
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Oct 23, 2021 22:58
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Echophonic posted:Actually managed to beat a video game. 100% normal clear in 11:04. That dude did far more than necessary for that one. You don't have to start in a different room or slide to the different parts.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:16
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Mr. Nice! posted:That dude did far more than necessary for that one. You don't have to start in a different room or slide to the different parts. I like that there's a few ways to hit some of these. I feel like the way I did it there was the 'expected' way, given there's a little room to store your spark in. I've also heard people do it with power bombs, but that sounds insanely complicated.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:22
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The platform below is long enough to get a boost. Just boost, jump off wall, shinespark on platform, blast blocks, cluster bomb to get across crumblies, bomb the thing and shoot to the moon.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:28
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Mr. Nice! posted:That dude did far more than necessary for that one. You don't have to start in a different room or slide to the different parts. If you shinespark on the upper level of that room, it's really easy to mistime the walljump because the path is only just long enough for you to activate it
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Oct 23, 2021 23:38
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Blaziken386 posted:IMO I personally find it easier to start in the other room I didn't even realize that platform was long enough, honestly. Seems like a lot of the spark puzzles give you just enough room, so I'm not surprised it's possible.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:45
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Blaziken386 posted:IMO I personally find it easier to start in the other room I didn’t walljump, myself, and just shinesparked on the floor below, but the timing that way is really tight.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:14
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It's just barely long enough. Barely enough that you're going to have a couple false starts and it's just easier to use the previous room. Also the problem with the cross bomb method is that you don't have cross bombs the first time you're there.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:16
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:There’s one notable sequence break but all you get is a secret message from the developers. Other than that, you can collect almost all of the items between when you get the screw attack and when Adam locks you into going to the final boss by using the secret tunnels between the sectors to avoid Nav rooms, which is pretty fun if executed properly and you don’t miss anything on the main deck like I did last run lol i've seen this brought up a few times, which is weird because it totally isn't true. once you leave the nav room after getting your final mission, you can head straight back in to the sectors with no problem. i wasn't locked into the ending sequence until after starting the SA-X fight
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Oct 24, 2021 00:33
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DTaeKim posted:My remarks are on sequence breaking without glitches. In addition to these, you can get Cross Bombs your first time through Ghavoran after getting scan if you do the little ballspark puzzle to get that missile pack and keep going out of the opening. You barely have enough room to get a run and shinespark against the cross bomb boss, so you can use that to get a pretty quick kill and a one shot on the core x
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Oct 24, 2021 01:11
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Venuz Patrol posted:i've seen this brought up a few times, which is weird because it totally isn't true. once you leave the nav room after getting your final mission, you can head straight back in to the sectors with no problem. i wasn't locked into the ending sequence until after starting the SA-X fight He locks the doors between the recharge rooms and the sectors until you beat the game. If you load a completed save you can go back. It’s absolutely true, I literally played the game last week lol
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Oct 24, 2021 02:03
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tonberi posted:In addition to these, you can get Cross Bombs your first time through Ghavoran after getting scan if you do the little ballspark puzzle to get that missile pack and keep going out of the opening. You barely have enough room to get a run and shinespark against the cross bomb boss, so you can use that to get a pretty quick kill and a one shot on the core x I feel like on the normal flow, you get cross bombs just as you're leaving Ghavoran for the last zone, and it's right beside the door to that zone, so it's absolutely spending extra time to go get them any time sooner?
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Oct 24, 2021 02:08
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Crossposted from the Switch thread, here are some feelings about the EMMIs, which I, in retrospect, don't really like very much. - Part of the tension that comes from the SA-X is the idea that it can appear anywhere - obviously if you've played Fusion you know where it's scripted to appear, but that first time, it scares the hell out of you when it does. Contrast that with the EMMIs, where the game tells you in every possible fashion that, hey, this next area is going to be one where an EMMI appears, so be ready for that. And then puts where it is on the map. And then gives you an audio cue so you know whether it's in the same room as you and how far away it is. And a visual to let you know where it's looking. They undercut how tense these encounters can actually be in basically every way that they could. - The other thing about the SA-X was that the entire game was building to an eventual confrontation with it, and every other time you encounter it, it is invincible. There's nothing you can do and no way for you to stop it - it is very clear that your only choice is to run. The EMMIs, meanwhile, start with you almost immediately destroying one thanks to an arbitrarily temporary power-up, and then cycles you through this process - you run away from them until you fight the big brain (which is another disappointment - a team that has played Metroid 2 and produced a remake of Metroid 2 should know by now that nobody is a fan of "fight the same boss multiple times") and then you destroy them. They don't feel intimidating and they don't feel powerful - knowing that you are fully capable of destroying them but are simply not allowed until the Specific Time makes your eventual triumph over them overshadowed by the tedium of the process. - If the EMMI can automatically detect you when you obtain the Hyper Beam or whatever it's called, why does it not just pursue you into the room where you fight the brains, which is a big straightaway and thereby probably the best place to shoot it? If they're too smart to walk into that room because you have the advantage, why does the rest of the encounter with them involve them walking into your bullet spray for an interminable period of time before dying? It feels very forced for not much fun. - If Samus' energy draining abilities let her absorb energy from machines, why do we even have to wait to fight them? Why doesn't she just grab one and, hey, job's done*? Why does the energy drain work on it after it's destroyed, when it presumably has no energy left with which to function? *note that this eventually straight up happens, and when she does so, the corresponding brain is shown to also die. If it works this way, why don't the EMMIs shut down when the brain is destroyed? I don't know, maybe these are nitpicky, but the EMMIs are my least favorite part of an otherwise really great game.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:29
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Bleck posted:- If Samus' energy draining abilities let her absorb energy from machines, why do we even have to wait to fight them? Why doesn't she just grab one and, hey, job's done*? Why does the energy drain work on it after it's destroyed, when it presumably has no energy left with which to function? *note that this eventually straight up happens, and when she does so, the corresponding brain is shown to also die. If it works this way, why don't the EMMIs shut down when the brain is destroyed? these aren't really supposed to be the same thing - when she gets the emmi's powerups it's more like when she touches the chozo cubes or the item upgrades, it's just a videogame-y "you got powerful" type of touching. The later metroid claw energy succ is only revealed later and supposed to be a surprise to both the player and samus herself (as evidenced by the cutscene) and is not something she could just go around doing from the start.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:37
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like on the normal flow, you get cross bombs just as you're leaving Ghavoran for the last zone, and it's right beside the door to that zone, so it's absolutely spending extra time to go get them any time sooner? There's a little fold of tunnels by there that you keep going through with different tools, and tricks to get ahead of where you're supposed to be able to get. For example there's a ramp with a missile tank you're "supposed" to reach from the other direction, but there's just enough room to charge a shinespark and ballspark up it, then charge another one to get up to the Cross Bombs. Basically if you're coming into that knot from any direction, it's pretty "easy" to take any route out of it.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:40
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My 8yo just beat Dread. I had to do most the bosses, but he's now playing hard mode. Rip my thumbs.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:45
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RodShaft posted:My 8yo just beat Dread. I had to do most the bosses, but he's now playing hard mode. Rip my thumbs. He's 8, make him fight the bosses. It's not like an infant lol
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Oct 24, 2021 02:48
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Bleck posted:valid EMMI criticism As much as I enjoy the EMMI as a concept I can't help but wonder how to better implement them. Maybe the computer disables their sensors or whatever and removes them from their zone rather than giving you temporary firepower. Then replace some of the chozo warrior fights later in the game with more specialized EMMI boss fights. It would bring the focus back to avoiding them and maneuvering around their area with more metroidy puzzle platforming and boss fights to deal with them. Integrating their zone with the map a bit better would be nice too, once they're gone there's huge chunks of the map with nothing in them.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:55
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I'm trying to get an Energy Tank at the top of Artaria and it looks like I'm going to have to do some Shinespark fuckery but I can't seem to figure it out, there's a long room for me to build up a boost but then there's a lip with a Morphball sized hole and two Morph Ball Bomb blocks I need to break which slow my momentum, then there's a sensor door and I have to Shinespark upwards for the Tank. The biggest roadblock is two MB blocks, I can build up the Shinespark, store it, and then break the blocks with my bombs but by then the charge dissipates. Also I got the Screw Attack but I'm still missing 2 Morph Ball abilities and it feels weird that those would be last, did I mess up somewhere? lol
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Oct 24, 2021 02:57
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sigher posted:The biggest roadblock is two MB blocks, I can build up the Shinespark, store it, and then break the blocks with my bombs but by then the charge dissipates.
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Oct 24, 2021 03:04
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https://youtu.be/ONbsfy5wPRY New speedrunning truck just dropped, holy loving poo poo
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Oct 24, 2021 03:21
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emmis own because the lead up to them is the best part of metroid, paradoxically; platforming, but in this case frantic, with all the shooting completely sidelined. the boss fight sucks tho
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Oct 24, 2021 03:58
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My only EMMI complaint remains the fact they aren't actually random in their zones and they're forced into the same room with you so there's no real organic 'you never know where they'll pop up!!" Like it sucks that I enter a new room and instantly it's in a crawlspace heading into the same room and won't leave no matter what. At that point I don't get why it has a hearing bubble because it's not like you're ever out of it. That couple with the water EMMI's I was more annoyed than worried about them. Kinda feels like MS wanted one hit kill bots roaming around but felt people would complain if they didn't give a million warnings that one is nearby. That and if you get killed you just get pooped onto the front door with absolutely no progress lost. I'm kinda cool with checkpoints for bosses but with no penalty for getting caught other than a small few seconds of loading you just kinda wind up not giving a poo poo.
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Oct 24, 2021 04:07
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There’s still a little bit of randomness to where the EMMI spawns when you enter, I’ve had times where it was right by the door and caught me immediately. It’s stupid though if you manage to get some distance between you and the EMMI but then enter the EMMI zone through another door moments later it’s right there again. I feel like it’s on the cusp of being a really great game mechanic but it’s stuck in being just okay.
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Oct 24, 2021 04:39
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Bruceski posted:There's a little fold of tunnels by there that you keep going through with different tools, and tricks to get ahead of where you're supposed to be able to get. For example there's a ramp with a missile tank you're "supposed" to reach from the other direction, but there's just enough room to charge a shinespark and ballspark up it, then charge another one to get up to the Cross Bombs. Maybe Im mixed up:  What I mean is for early cross bombs, you do the ball spark trick at red, shine up the vertical shaft, get cross-bombs at blue....then double back. If you don't do them early, ie: not until after Screw attack, you get to proceed on to Hanubia. I don't know exactly what other impacts early cross has, but for an any% run, it seems like you're going out of your way to get them early?
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Oct 24, 2021 05:01
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It’s definitely out of the way. But it’s like 30 sec out of the way, so unless you’re a top speed runner, it’s just your preference there (especially if you wanna use them to make it easier for early space jump, which can save a lot of time).
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Oct 24, 2021 05:25
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Hey, I get it now. They put these exploits in the game on purpose. They want us to figure out how to break the game because it will generate a lot of hype.
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Oct 24, 2021 05:37
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Man, I dunno if I was just too old for Fusion to be a formative experience or something but the SA-X is just a total non-entity in memory. I've beaten it three times, most recently on the 3DS Ambassador program, and all I ever remember is things like the Spring Ball Metroid 2 boss and the freezer section.
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Oct 24, 2021 05:40
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Good Sphere posted:Hey, I get it now. They put these exploits in the game on purpose. They want us to figure out how to break the game because it will generate a lot of hype. I wouldn't exactly call them exploits. I like the idea of a more open world that just requires you get good at a few built in tricks. The phasing through solid walls and exploding on the other side of walls is definitely a glitch and will probably be patched out. I'm sure the devs figured out some of the sequence breaks, and I bet there are quite a few that have surprised them as well.
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Oct 24, 2021 06:07
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Hogama posted:Man, I dunno if I was just too old for Fusion to be a formative experience or something but the SA-X is just a total non-entity in memory. I've beaten it three times, most recently on the 3DS Ambassador program, and all I ever remember is things like the Spring Ball Metroid 2 boss and the freezer section. You're not the only one. I played it a few times but nothing ever really stuck with me. I've had the intro to super metroid stuck in my head for weeks now, though.
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Oct 24, 2021 06:08
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Hogama posted:Man, I dunno if I was just too old for Fusion to be a formative experience or something but the SA-X is just a total non-entity in memory. I've beaten it three times, most recently on the 3DS Ambassador program, and all I ever remember is things like the Spring Ball Metroid 2 boss and the freezer section. honestly, kinda same. i liked the concept of the sa-x but i always felt the execution was annoying at best. meanwhile i absolutely loved the emmi sections so 
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Oct 24, 2021 06:37
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:10 |
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Yeah, the EMMIs do seem very much like a second go-around with the SA-X that was a fun idea in theory but in practice just another setpiece. If they made a full on remake of Fusion the SA-X might be more unpredictable and played up, like Nemesis or Majima Everywhere.
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Oct 24, 2021 06:44
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