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Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Why would you want thick eager zero in 2021?

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Number19
May 14, 2003

HOCKEY OWNS
FUCK YEAH


It’s in their guide. The array itself doesn’t write the zeroes anyways so you might as well as allocate it all upfront and avoid any risk of extra latency from allocating on demand. The array itself also thin provisions the actual volume so going thin on thin saves nothing and makes your storage allocation more opaque.

Pikehead
Dec 3, 2006

Looking for WMDs, PM if you have A+ grade stuff
Fun Shoe

Number19 posted:

Lol how does something like that make it to production?

I’m glad Nimble advises you make thick eager zero VMs so I won’t have to deal with this

I mean, I don't think it's every thin provisioned vm because otherwise it would have been found.

That's what you get for running bleeding edge vmware I guess.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Number19 posted:

Lol how does something like that make it to production?
That's pretty simple to explain: Their testing environment is incomplete.
Of course, that's not something that's unique to VMware because there's no such thing as too many tests - even if you have unit tests and integration tests for everything, there are combinations of edge-cases that can only be hit by fuzzing, and even then you not guaranteed 100% coverage.

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma
Lipstick Apathy
Holy cow the new vSphere 7 update 3 is bad. I still use esxi 6.7 but upgraded to vsphere 7 because the ui was better, now its worse than 6. All list views paginate at only 35 items and its not possible to shift select a bunch of vms.

I suppose its going to force me to script everything like I should because batch operations though the web interface are too tedious now.

Perplx fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 23, 2021

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Man, say what you want about Xen, but I've never had an update "break" the hypervisors or vms yet.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



CommieGIR posted:

Man, say what you want about Xen, but I've never had an update "break" the hypervisors or vms yet.
Same with bhyve and nvmm for me.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I could tell some loving stories about XenServer breaking poo poo though, whoooo.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Internet Explorer posted:

I could tell some loving stories about XenServer breaking poo poo though, whoooo.

I mean, do share!

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011

Hi
:saddowns: Don't look at my site :saddowns:
I really wanted to put ESXi on my old computer turned Hypervisor, but because there is no support for software RAID and I couldn't get my old Areca card's volume to show up I had to opt for something else and I think i will go with proxmox.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot
slightly random question for VM goons: what makes Win9x so difficult to emulate? I understand that virtualization companies largely target professional-use OSes and not consumer ones like 95/98/Me, therefore there is little incentive to provide support for it, but it seems to be the one major glaring hole in VM tech. Everything up to 3.1 seems to work great in DOSbox, everything NT4 and up works great in almost everything else. We can emulate 64 core CPUs and hundreds of gigabytes of RAM, but we can't emulate a single-core Pentium and a Rage 128 well enough to not have cursor trails all over the screen in normal use? Too much blue plate special spaghetti code?

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost

barnold posted:

slightly random question for VM goons: what makes Win9x so difficult to emulate? I understand that virtualization companies largely target professional-use OSes and not consumer ones like 95/98/Me, therefore there is little incentive to provide support for it, but it seems to be the one major glaring hole in VM tech. Everything up to 3.1 seems to work great in DOSbox, everything NT4 and up works great in almost everything else. We can emulate 64 core CPUs and hundreds of gigabytes of RAM, but we can't emulate a single-core Pentium and a Rage 128 well enough to not have cursor trails all over the screen in normal use? Too much blue plate special spaghetti code?

Virtualization is not emulation.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

barnold posted:

slightly random question for VM goons: what makes Win9x so difficult to emulate? I understand that virtualization companies largely target professional-use OSes and not consumer ones like 95/98/Me, therefore there is little incentive to provide support for it, but it seems to be the one major glaring hole in VM tech. Everything up to 3.1 seems to work great in DOSbox, everything NT4 and up works great in almost everything else. We can emulate 64 core CPUs and hundreds of gigabytes of RAM, but we can't emulate a single-core Pentium and a Rage 128 well enough to not have cursor trails all over the screen in normal use? Too much blue plate special spaghetti code?

As the above already states: Emulation and Virtualization are different. The problem with virtualizing legacy tech is not that it can't be done: It can! The problem is you are basically putting a legacy system onto a modern architecture (i.e. If you install Windows 3.1 inside a Xenserver VM on AMD Opterons, guess what hardware that machine is going to have? That's right. Windows 3.1 running on modern architecture, at modern speeds).

Emulation is neccessary because you have both be able to step down the architecture, step down the speeds to something more in line with the hardware the OS was made to live on in the first place. You gotta slow it down, and in the cases of stuff like graphics, you have to emulate older GPUs that look nothing like our modern equivalent.

Otherwise, you can run any OS made for x86 hardware on any virtualization platform.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
This coincidentally is why I came to this thread. I have a disc-based game from 1997 that I would like to play and I am rather at a loss as to how to do so. I had some success using virtual XP under Win7 and Oracle VM under Win10 Pro, but in both cases the game runs far too fast.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012

JustJeff88 posted:

This coincidentally is why I came to this thread. I have a disc-based game from 1997 that I would like to play and I am rather at a loss as to how to do so. I had some success using virtual XP under Win7 and Oracle VM under Win10 Pro, but in both cases the game runs far too fast.

There is probably something for this.

See: https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/8420/cpu-or-framerate-limiting-on-older-games

Seems like there is some CPU limiter in Virtual Box.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

JustJeff88 posted:

This coincidentally is why I came to this thread. I have a disc-based game from 1997 that I would like to play and I am rather at a loss as to how to do so. I had some success using virtual XP under Win7 and Oracle VM under Win10 Pro, but in both cases the game runs far too fast.

Buy a Pentium II Dell Dimension on eBay for like $799

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

Bob Morales posted:

Buy a Pentium II Dell Dimension on eBay for like $799

I guess my shelf of old PCs is now my retirement fund.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life
Have you checked http://gog.com/ They usually have old games working on modern systems.

I don't even remember my last computer with a CD drive

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Mr. Crow posted:

Have you checked http://gog.com/ They usually have old games working on modern systems.

I don't even remember my last computer with a CD drive

Really? I have one on my both my desktop and laptop. It was only about 5 years ago that I bought my last disc-based game - it was Panzer Corps Gold.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Bob Morales posted:

Buy a Pentium II Dell Dimension on eBay for like $799

Slow down there moneybags.

Slack3r
Feb 20, 2004
Any KVM/QEMU gurus out there? Running a homelab Server 2012R2 in KVM. How can I give it access to another physical hard drive on the host? I would like to have the 2012 see a physical disk ( say D:) that it can read/write to but would be /dev/sdXX on the Linux host.?

Looks like it's not gonna happen directly. I need to share a path via SAMBA to the guest OS.. Ill make that work..

Slack3r fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Nov 3, 2021

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

Slack3r posted:

Any KVM/QEMU gurus out there? Running a homelab Server 2012R2 in KVM. How can I give it access to another physical hard drive on the host? I would like to have the 2012 see a physical disk ( say D:) that it can read/write to but would be /dev/sdXX on the Linux host.?

Looks like it's not gonna happen directly. I need to share a path via SAMBA to the guest OS.. Ill make that work..

Are you trying to make it accessible to the host? If you're just trying to do a full passthrough, you'll want to use virtio. This is how I'm doing it on one of my machines but there are a dozen ways to do it.

code:
<disk type='block' device='lun'>
  <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='none' io='native'/>
  <source dev='/dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5000cca250ef1816'/>
  <backingStore/>
  <target dev='sda' bus='scsi'/>
  <alias name='scsi0-0-0-0'/>
  <address type='drive' controller='0' bus='0' target='0' unit='0'/>
</disk>
<controller type='scsi' index='0' model='virtio-scsi'>
  <alias name='scsi0'/>
  <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x09' function='0x0'/>
</controller>
Important lines are <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='none' io='native'/> and model=virtio-sci in the controller.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012
Raw disks are fine in KVM, I have multiple NVME drives passed trough to my Windows VM using the above method.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



I'd like to point out that NFS is supported in Windows, nowadays - so maybe that's worth looking into?

Mr. Crow posted:

Are you trying to make it accessible to the host? If you're just trying to do a full passthrough, you'll want to use virtio. This is how I'm doing it on one of my machines but there are a dozen ways to do it.

code:
<disk type='block' device='lun'>
  <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='none' io='native'/>
  <source dev='/dev/disk/by-id/wwn-0x5000cca250ef1816'/>
  <backingStore/>
  <target dev='sda' bus='scsi'/>
  <alias name='scsi0-0-0-0'/>
  <address type='drive' controller='0' bus='0' target='0' unit='0'/>
</disk>
<controller type='scsi' index='0' model='virtio-scsi'>
  <alias name='scsi0'/>
  <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x09' function='0x0'/>
</controller>
Important lines are <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='none' io='native'/> and model=virtio-sci in the controller.
VirtIO isn't full passthrough, though - it's very explicitly peripheral paravirtualisation, with all the downsides associated with that.
With the added "benefit" that the block device that you're suggesting features even more buffering that keeps the data away from the disks in order to manipulate it, in addition to what Linux does on its own - which risks dataloss.

Slack3r
Feb 20, 2004

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

I'd like to point out that NFS is supported in Windows, nowadays - so maybe that's worth looking into?

VirtIO isn't full passthrough, though - it's very explicitly peripheral paravirtualisation, with all the downsides associated with that.
With the added "benefit" that the block device that you're suggesting features even more buffering that keeps the data away from the disks in order to manipulate it, in addition to what Linux does on its own - which risks dataloss.


Hmm.. I forgot about NFS. I have a SAMBA share setup from sdc1 as ext4 fs. All my test Window instances can see that share just fine and are mapped to it. Last time I messed with NFS, I was able to gain root access on a university BSD server in the mid 90s. lol. Was able to mount / on my linux box via dialup. Since I was root locally.... boom done. Good times. I'm still wary of NFS.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Slack3r posted:

Hmm.. I forgot about NFS. I have a SAMBA share setup from sdc1 as ext4 fs. All my test Window instances can see that share just fine and are mapped to it. Last time I messed with NFS, I was able to gain root access on a university BSD server in the mid 90s. lol. Was able to mount / on my linux box via dialup. Since I was root locally.... boom done. Good times. I'm still wary of NFS.
Just because you can mount as the root user using NFS doesn't mean you have root access; in fact, that's very explicitly the point of the maproot function that's been part of the BSDs NFS implementation since 1990 (if not before).
More than likely, you either had access the 'nobody' user, since that's historically the user that's been used for that, as the default UID of -2 means that you get errors when trying to mount as root.

NFS has changed considerably since then, because NFSv4 no longer sends UIDs/GIDs over the wire and instead uses usernames (well, unless you set vfs.nfsd.enable_stringtouid (or its equivalent on not-FreeBSD), which exists to fix interoperability with NFSv4 implementations that still use UIDs/GIDs over the wire).

Also, Rick Macklem, who documented the thing about mapping the uid of root above, is still the maintainer of FreeBSDs NFS implementation to this day.

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Nov 5, 2021

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Yeah NFS has changed significantly, there's still some compatibility issues which keeps SMBv3 king of the roost for file shares, but NFS has significantly improved.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

How is the performance of setting up a linux distro as the main system, firing up some sort of virtualbox on that, installing windows 10 on that, and then giving it as much resources as possible, and gaming on the VM?

I haven't tried it but I've been thinking about doing it for years.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004

GreenBuckanneer posted:

How is the performance of setting up a linux distro as the main system, firing up some sort of virtualbox on that, installing windows 10 on that, and then giving it as much resources as possible, and gaming on the VM?

I haven't tried it but I've been thinking about doing it for years.

I'm not sure about Virtualbox but lots of people have done GPU passthrough for their machines for gaming. Fairly common actually.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
I do GPU passthrough with my HyperV instance on my personal laptop.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



GreenBuckanneer posted:

How is the performance of setting up a linux distro as the main system, firing up some sort of virtualbox on that, installing windows 10 on that, and then giving it as much resources as possible, and gaming on the VM?

I haven't tried it but I've been thinking about doing it for years.
When I did some testing on my setup, I found a 4-5% difference (median ~4.42% if memory serves) at 95% confidence over 10 runs with a complete reboot between each run, so it's measurable but not important unless you're already resource-starved.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

GreenBuckanneer posted:

How is the performance of setting up a linux distro as the main system, firing up some sort of virtualbox on that, installing windows 10 on that, and then giving it as much resources as possible, and gaming on the VM?

I haven't tried it but I've been thinking about doing it for years.

Its much more common and doable but that doesnt make it easy. The UX is hit or miss depending on your system. You'll either need two GPUs or hope you can get a single GPU working, AMD seems to be more reliable for it. I couldn't get my 2070 super working the way I wanted, for example.

You're honestly probably better off just dual booting still, most games run pretty well on Linux these days and for those that don't its 30s to reboot to windows.

Slack3r
Feb 20, 2004

GreenBuckanneer posted:

How is the performance of setting up a linux distro as the main system, firing up some sort of virtualbox on that, installing windows 10 on that, and then giving it as much resources as possible, and gaming on the VM?

I haven't tried it but I've been thinking about doing it for years.

This is right up KVM/QEMUs alley. It will turn into a rabbit-hole of forums and learning but its mostly do-able. I purchased a new Ryzen 9 system last year for just this reason. Of course I haven't had any time to try GPU Passthrough out yet.. :) MAYBE this winter.. Or maybe not.. Got a full plate at the moment.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

What's cool out there in hyperconverged these days? I remember people saying that VXRail didn't make them as happy as they hoped but not why. We never did HCI before but we're pondering a new look at it for our on-prem VMware deployment. Nutanix, Cisco Hyperflex, and VXRail are all on my short list right now.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

I do not like Nutanix at all. Licensing costs, support, general stuff all not great.

If your workload works with HCI, and not all of them do, I liked Cisco Hyperflex at my last job. I wasn't a day to day virt guy, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

To be fair our main issue was we were trying to use HCI for workloads that didn't really work with HCI.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Experience suggests we'll do that too, but only after putting way too much money into it.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Zorak of Michigan posted:

Experience suggests we'll do that too, but only after putting way too much money into it.

I still talk to some people at my old job. Rumor is they're tossing over 20M we spent on Nutanix and hardware and just getting rid of it. The VP driving it left, and there's a new cloud first CIO. There's so much drama and bullshit there now people are really just collecting a check while they figure out what the hell is happening.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Oh you want vmware, I was going to offer a comedy Azure Stack Hub suggestion.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Martytoof posted:

Oh you want vmware, I was going to offer a comedy Azure Stack Hub suggestion.

I am a nice person, why would you say such a horrible thing to me?

Cloud looms large for every sane org but that's actually why we want to stay with VMware for this. With all the focus on skilling up for cloud work, why would we also try switching hypervisors for our on-prem at this late date?

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rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.

Zorak of Michigan posted:

I am a nice person, why would you say such a horrible thing to me?

Cloud looms large for every sane org but that's actually why we want to stay with VMware for this. With all the focus on skilling up for cloud work, why would we also try switching hypervisors for our on-prem at this late date?

Gotta catch’em all the virtualization skills?

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