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Mage_Boy posted:She might have retired as both an Aes Sedai and queen to live with her husband so that people don't figure out who he is. yeah, realistically after a point she steps down from ruling because i don't think she would want to be a target for hundreds of years
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Oct 25, 2021 00:34
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:winters heart was a bigger disappointment then crossroads IMHO waiting and waiting and waiting Winter's Heart at least ends with the cleansing, which is so cool that I sort of forget that the rest of the book exists. Crossroads has nothing like that going for it.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:56
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Been listening to Shadow Rising discussion and I hope they kill Fain at Shadar Logoth with the cleansing because he does nothing important on the books from like book 8 until the end of the series and he goes out like a punk anyway so make his death actually meaningful.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:06
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Been listening to Shadow Rising discussion and I hope they kill Fain at Shadar Logoth with the cleansing because he does nothing important on the books from like book 8 until the end of the series and he goes out like a punk anyway so make his death actually meaningful. Would like to see Perrin kill him after the battle of two rivers, I think tainting the whitecloaks and murdering perrin’s family are his last real important action.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:11
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oh, yeah, i guess it's fitting that i kind of forgot about him but fain is more or less a non-entity after a point and i feel like he should have been iced way before when it actually happened
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Oct 25, 2021 01:13
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buffalo all day posted:Would like to see Perrin kill him after the battle of two rivers, I think tainting the whitecloaks and murdering perrin’s family are his last real important action. When Rand goes to talk to the Cairhienian nobles that oppose him in Crown of Swords he gets attacked by Fain and slashed across his unhealable wound. Damer Flinn seals the wound and says that the dagger is evil but different from the DO and they are fighting against each other. This gives Rand the idea to use Shadar Logoth to cleanse the source. I don't have a copy of the book where Fain dies with me, but I remember there was some strange stuff with Mat appearing to die to Mashadar but then he's just like faking it? I don't remember that very clearly but I remember thinking it was confusing and a poor resolution to that plot. Just removing him after the cleansing makes better thematic sense to me.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:24
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Once Elayne has her kids, her plot armor is gone and she was too stupid to live.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:30
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I'm pretty sure Fain is the pattern leaving a backup in case Rand decides killing the DO is the right choice. Once that choice is off the table he goes out like a chump.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:37
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:When Rand goes to talk to the Cairhienian nobles that oppose him in Crown of Swords he gets attacked by Fain and slashed across his unhealable wound. Damer Flinn seals the wound and says that the dagger is evil but different from the DO and they are fighting against each other. This gives Rand the idea to use Shadar Logoth to cleanse the source. They have Mat be immune to Mashadar because of the dagger's lingering effect so when it touches him he plays dead until Fain gets close enough and he stands up to gank him.
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Oct 25, 2021 03:27
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Been listening to Shadow Rising discussion and I hope they kill Fain at Shadar Logoth with the cleansing because he does nothing important on the books from like book 8 until the end of the series and he goes out like a punk anyway so make his death actually meaningful. I'm probably wrong, but I think I remember reading a Sanderson QA which said he regrets how he wrote Fain out. If that's true I guess Jordan didn't leave many notes on him and he got the Logain treatment.
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Oct 25, 2021 04:03
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Gonna re-read the whole series in honor of the new show, starting tonight. Hope it doesn't suck. Wish me luck.
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Oct 25, 2021 04:43
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Jaxyon posted:Gonna re-read the whole series in honor of the new show, starting tonight. It doesn't, it holds up very well.
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Oct 25, 2021 05:24
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Jaxyon posted:Gonna re-read the whole series in honor of the new show, starting tonight. You can do it! Im doing my reread and the first 3 are pretty quick. I'm hitting LOC now and it's starting to buckle
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Oct 25, 2021 05:28
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My reread stalled out on TPOD as all my rereads do  I agree Fain's worthless after the halfway mark but at the same time show viewers should have to suffer through the Mat fakeout like I did 
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Oct 25, 2021 06:54
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How are u posted:it holds up very well I started my first reread a couple weeks ago and i'm on TGH now. Moiraine's actions make much more sense knowing what i know now. And I also noticed Bayle Domon has one of the seals and it's really fun knowing the significance of that. It do be like that sometimes 
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Oct 25, 2021 11:03
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i think it'd be better to give fain more things to do as a villain tbh he'd work as the major antagonist to mat in the way slayer is to perrin and moridin is to rand, i think. the gholam is cool and all but also not really a character, then give him the same ending and you can still have the "was fain an emergency dark one replacement???" theory even
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Oct 25, 2021 11:18
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:MCM Comic Con is happening in London and they have an 'exclusive Wheel of Time experience' booth which just means 15 minutes of various scenes from the first episode. It seems like extended scenes from the trailer we've seen, with the notable ones being Egwene performing a ceremony with the Woman's Circle to braid her hair and the attack on the al'Thor farm. They also show some of the Winternight attack with Mat running out into the chaos to find his sisters, Perrin barricading himself and a woman in the blacksmiths workshop, and Egwene dancing with someone before they get killed by a trolloc axe. I was there and had a look at the extended trailers. I can go into it under spoilers if it's not against the rules??
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Oct 25, 2021 11:24
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Natural 20 posted:I was there and had a look at the extended trailers. I can go into it under spoilers if it's not against the rules?? it should be fine, post away friend
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Oct 25, 2021 11:30
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Hexel posted:Moiraine's actions make much more sense Sending Rand out with nothing but a bunch of soldiers, his sword and the dragon banner and leaving the rest up to the pattern is 
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Oct 25, 2021 11:32
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Best thing to do with fain would've been to leave him as an unresolved loose end.
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Oct 25, 2021 11:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Best thing to do with fain would've been to leave him as an unresolved loose end. Agreed. With capital E evil removed once more from reality, you need some other supernatural existential that stirring the pot.
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Oct 25, 2021 12:41
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Jedit posted:It's ironic that Mat gets all his cool poo poo from passing through doors to Finnland, then spends the entire series complaining that he's being treated like a door Mat. Mad that I actually laughed at this, nice work. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Best thing to do with fain would've been to leave him as an unresolved loose end.  Just add a couple of lines to the epilogue of A Memory of Light. Something along the lines of "A patrol encounters a strange fog on a beach. One stays back while the others ride into it. Sounds of battle, screaming, gnashing rending ravenous tearing carry out of the fog as if carried on a wind from a great distance. Then nothing. The survivor dismounts from their grolm, muttering a prayer to the Great Lord, and unsheathes their sword to await death. Out of the fog walks a skinny, gangly man in bloodsoaked clothes holding a ruby capped dagger."
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Oct 25, 2021 13:17
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Mat Cauthon posted:Mad that I actually laughed at this, nice work. Christ this would have driven me insane, I'm so glad they didn't do this lol. I was more expecting Fain to be involved at the last battle itself somehow, as a third party fighting against the Shadow and the Light, but given his powers by that point of "Create death fog that kills literally everything it touches" I guess there was never really anything satisfying that could have happened to him. No room for drama when the only way to really deal with him is either someone already immunized against the taint (Mat had a fewwww other things going on) or a larger group of channelers just blapping him away from a distance.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:35
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I always thought the fan theory of Rand "killing" the DO and Fain stepping in and being sealed was dumb, you can't kill something like the DO who is a fundamental aspect of existence. It's in the same vein as Lanfear telling Rand they can use the choedan kal to destroy the DO and the Creator, it's human hubris to think that they can rival literal gods. Having Fain show up at Shadar Logoth with an army of possessed Trollocs as a third group attacking both the Forsaken and Rand's group as he struggles to cleanse saidin is a much cooler send-off imo
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Oct 25, 2021 13:46
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i think that having fain carry on and continue the shadar logoth poo poo as like this ominous sting at the end would have also cheapened it a bit and gone against the kind of message it has, imo, where that even if the pattern dictates a lot in people's lives they're now entering a period where they're more able to exercise their freedom and any evil will come from themselves and be something that isn't the literal encroaching army of doom and blight that's threatening to unmake reality once more or i mostly could be talking out of my rear end. i'm primarily going off of aviendha's visions in rhuidean where a lot of the horror came from the evils that nations were doing against one another even once the dark one had been defeated and it was assumed everything would be fine.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:55
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Gwaihir posted:Christ this would have driven me insane, I'm so glad they didn't do this lol. That's why it'd be great! Johnny Joestar posted:i think that having fain carry on and continue the shadar logoth poo poo as like this ominous sting at the end would have also cheapened it a bit and gone against the kind of message it has, imo, where that even if the pattern dictates a lot in people's lives they're now entering a period where they're more able to exercise their freedom and any evil will come from themselves and be something that isn't the literal encroaching army of doom and blight that's threatening to unmake reality once more That's fair but also partly why I think having Fain stick around would be appropriate. Mashadar and Mordeth are the evil men do to other men, made manifest. Their origin isn't fully explained and neither should be their end. Maybe not a stinger but just an ambiguity, enough to leave you wondering. In a way this sort of headcanon/retconning is the silver lining to the series handover; we can always imagine our own personal take on how it "would" have ended "if."
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Oct 25, 2021 14:25
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mainly i 'get' mashadar's whole deal and the inherent human greed and whatnot involved but at least to me, personally, it comes off as way more effective to have stuff like normal soldiers doing poo poo like hunting the aiel in the flashforward than a spooky mist that kills people, at least in terms of how loose ends are concerned. honestly beyond anything else i think it's all mostly just further evidence that fain is handled weirdly and it leaves us with a situation where no one is ever 100% satisfied with the results.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:52
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I thought Fain should have died at the Cleansing once Rand was finished and Shadar Logoth had been wiped from existence. edit: He would have also been a credible threat to stop Rand at the cleansing, unlike the bumbling forsaken.
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Oct 25, 2021 16:13
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With how much empty land there is in the world, Fain could take either a remnant of Masema’s followers or white cloaks and establishing a “light on a hill against the shadow” city if the show writers want to change his ending.
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Oct 25, 2021 16:15
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Hmmm, what if Fain encountered the Finn?
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Oct 25, 2021 16:20
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:It's in the same vein as Lanfear telling Rand they can use the choedan kal to destroy the DO and the Creator, it's human hubris to think that they can rival literal gods.
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Oct 25, 2021 16:24
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Johnny Joestar posted:a spooky mist that kills people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nK4VnBjD24
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Oct 25, 2021 16:38
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I'm up to Trollocs attacking Emonds field and so far the only even vaguely racial description has been that Egwene had the same dark coloring as Nynaeve. So if there's any racists out there they can gently caress off even more than usual.
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Oct 25, 2021 18:42
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Johnny Joestar posted:i think that having fain carry on and continue the shadar logoth poo poo as like this ominous sting at the end would have also cheapened it a bit and gone against the kind of message it has, imo, where that even if the pattern dictates a lot in people's lives they're now entering a period where they're more able to exercise their freedom and any evil will come from themselves and be something that isn't the literal encroaching army of doom and blight that's threatening to unmake reality once more I always liked the idea of Fain being something new to the Pattern as well as an embodiment of the evil that men can get up to by abandoning morality. Getting clipped at the big showdown never felt worthy of the threat (distinct from the Shadow) that he represented. What would Aridhol get up to once the Dark One is "gone" has always been a fairly interesting question to me. Lots of ways for him to wreak havoc that don't involve replicating Shadar Logoth. Anyway, just an idea! The show has lots of time to figure out how to do that plotline justice, assuming they get that far.
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Oct 25, 2021 19:04
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Democratic Pirate posted:With how much empty land there is in the world, Fain could take either a remnant of Masema’s followers or white cloaks and establishing a “light on a hill against the shadow” city if the show writers want to change his ending. fain and masema could both be removed from the show and the main plot wouldn't be affected
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Oct 25, 2021 19:24
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Jaxyon posted:I'm up to Trollocs attacking Emonds field and so far the only even vaguely racial description has been that Egwene had the same dark coloring as Nynaeve. There's a r/whitecloaks subreddit doing the typical racistwhining but they're fairly small potatoes numbers wise.
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Oct 25, 2021 19:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a r/whitecloaks subreddit doing the typical racistwhining but they're fairly small potatoes numbers wise. Oh yeah not even half down the first page and I got a post complaining about how true fans know the Two Rivers was white and a "facts don't care about your feelings" Ben Shapiro callout
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Oct 25, 2021 19:42
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ChubbyChecker posted:fain and masema could both be removed from the show and the main plot wouldn't be affected You'd need a reason for Perrin to gently caress off from Rand for the back half of the series
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Oct 25, 2021 19:57
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Put him in a separate box but then just forget about him
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Oct 25, 2021 20:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a r/whitecloaks subreddit doing the typical racistwhining but they're fairly small potatoes numbers wise. i'm not surprised that they named their subreddit that but also at the same time do they never actually realize what kind of look it gives off when they name themselves after a faction where it literally takes the vast majority of the books before they reach a point where someone might even remotely be able to turn them around and make them not a bunch of highly, morally corrupt fascists?
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Oct 25, 2021 20:07
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