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Mischievous Mink posted:Ban+30 every post that has rape apology, quit putting words in my mouth you dumb gently caress. Forumbans are stupid. You aren't listening and you never have. More reason you shouldn't have buttons lol. Cool, we'll take that up with an admin. And maybe that will happen. But given when the DMZ thread was opened, the constant accusal was "Everyone in D&D or supporting the Democratic Party is a rape apologist" we have to define what the red line for ban+30 will be? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:44
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So when GJB said they were limiting posts because they didn't want the thread to devolve into a slapfight, he meant that posting limits were the only way the mods could stop themselves from turning it into a slapfight?
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Oct 26, 2021 14:47
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I mean if I wanted to prove that the lovely posting environment in D&D was because of the moderators, the past few pages of this thread would be exhibit A
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Oct 26, 2021 14:48
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CommieGIR posted:So, in other words: You are moving the goal posts. If the US was doing this, would you be outraged? I'd be willing to bet yes. lol Whatever is going on in Xinjang is surely worse that anything the US has been up to wrt the Muslim world for the last 20 years. Not to mention our border policy. I mean I don't have any links to satellite photos of Iraq between 03/04 but it would sure be embarrassing if most the cheerleaders for that war were still in charge.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:48
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CommieGIR posted:Cool, we'll take that up with an admin. And maybe that will happen. But given when the DMZ thread was opened, the constant accusal was "Everyone in D&D or supporting the Democratic Party is a rape apologist" we have to define what the red line for ban+30 will be? That's not at all what happened lol But more than one person did call Tara Reade a liar Sedisp fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:49
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Jimong5 posted:lol That's called Whataboutism. And I don't think anybody was defending the US's outright Islamaphobic war.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:49
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CommieGIR posted:That's called Whataboutism. And I don't think anybody was defending the US's outright Islamaphobic war. Nobody was calling it genocide either, though. And nobody here on SA calls the US's treatment of black men genocide, even though the incarceration rate of black men in america is considerably higher than the incarceration rate of uyghurs estimated by china's biggest critics. The genocide accusations always depended, at minimum, on the idea that islam was being removed from public life in xinjiang, and the associated press recently sent a reporter who determined that that was not the case. Certainly it would be accurate to say that xinjiang is in the grips of an authoritarian police state within an order of magnitude of, but considerably less intense than, the united states. But that is not something that most people would consider genocide.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:52
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CommieGIR posted:That's called Whataboutism. And I don't think anybody was defending the US's outright Islamaphobic war. CommieGIR posted:So, in other words: You are moving the goal posts. If the US was doing this, would you be outraged? I'd be willing to bet yes. So uh, what exactly was this then? "If this US was doing this you'd sure be maad" "yes." "Whataboutism!!!!!" How about I'll care about what the Chinese are up to after we stop the far more monstrous policies of the county I live in and have a vote for? Is that genocide denial? Because it seems like whataboutisim to me to redirect criticism of US empire to "theres totes a genocide there, trust me"
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Oct 26, 2021 14:55
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CommieGIR posted:links bellingcat as an authoritative source Please read the stickied media analysis and criticism thread.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:59
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Is anybody not in agreement that the mass incarceration of black Americans is basically genocide? I mean given that the US Justice system in general is steeped in White Supremacy oriented towards doing oppressive, genocide like things?Jimong5 posted:How about I'll care about what the Chinese are up to after we stop the far more monstrous policies of the county I live in and have a vote for? Is that genocide denial? Caring about it, sure. Whether or not it IS by definition, genocide, is another. Nobody is saying you personally have to do anything about it (you can't).
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Oct 26, 2021 14:59
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CommieGIR posted:Is anybody not in agreement that the mass incarceration of black Americans is basically genocide? I mean given that the US Justice system in general is steeped in White Supremacy oriented towards doing oppressive, genocide like things? Regardless of my opinion on the subject, lots of people do not agree that the united states government is currently engaging in genocide, and I do not believe most people would consider that to be a bannable statement in D&D.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:00
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30.5 Days posted:Regardless of my opinion on the subject, lots of people do not agree that the united states government is currently engaging in genocide, and I do not believe most people would consider that to be a bannable statement in D&D. Well then maybe that is something that needs to change. This discussion helped. Thank you.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:01
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CommieGIR posted:Is anybody not in agreement that the mass incarceration of black Americans is basically genocide? I mean given that the US Justice system in general is steeped in White Supremacy oriented towards doing oppressive, genocide like things? I would be willing to bet lots of guinea pig pics you'd be shouted out of DND with that take minus the star.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:01
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30.5 Days posted:Regardless of my opinion on the subject, lots of people do not agree that the united states government is currently engaging in genocide, and I do not believe most people would consider that to be a bannable statement in D&D. Its a combo of this and trusting/distrusting the same organizations that brought you "Iraq has WMD's" It is very possible that China is conducting a cultural genocide. But there is no solution that the US can reasonably exercise and also we are up to way worse.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:03
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CommieGIR posted:Well then maybe that is something that needs to change. This discussion helped. Thank you.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:05
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A D&D rule that you're not allowed to argue that any nation is not committing genocide would kind of own.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:05
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CG this is not an appropriate way for a mod to act. There are pages of complaints levelled at the mod team itt and the qcs thread, and instead of responding to any of those you are instead loving the Chinese chicken, so to speak. I'm not sure what your goal is here from a moderation standpoint, but if you are attempting to justify the years long poo poo pile that is DnD moderation then you're doing a very poor job of it. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 15:07
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I think "is the 21st century treatment of blacks in America genocide" is a complicated question and answering it one way or another shouldn't be bannable. A lot of problems are complicated and we shouldn't proscribe "correct" answers to them. Now, if somebody says something terrible in the process of making an argument (something like "I think black people have it better in America!" or "all white people should be killed"), act on that, but like, these are matters of actual scholarly debate, and not something we should be shutting down discussion about. I also think "is [bad thing] [a given word for bad thing]" is the kind of idiotic argument we shouldn't be having, because semantic arguments are pretty much always a waste of time, and because that argument is pretty much always just used to paint your posting enemies as supporting [bad thing].
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Oct 26, 2021 15:09
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Mellow Seas posted:I think "is the 21st century treatment of blacks in America genocide" is a complicated question and answering it one way or another shouldn't be bannable. mods ban this mf for genocide denial
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Oct 26, 2021 15:10
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lol
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Oct 26, 2021 15:10
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I think the big problem is how do we discuss the context of various states crimes against humanities within the context of a single thread: I.e. the derailment that both Canada's genocide against native children and China's mass incarceration caused in those threads. Because despite the need to discuss these things, in the context of discussing the ongoing political issues of each state is going to get easily drowned out by it. Much like the ACAB discussion in USNews easily drowned out any day to day USNews happenings. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 15:12
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However, I agree with my right honorable friend from debate and discussion
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Oct 26, 2021 15:12
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CommieGIR posted:I think the big problem is how do we discuss the context of various states crimes against humanities within the context of a single thread: I.e. the derailment that both Canada's genocide against native children and China's mass incarceration caused in those threads. Because despite the need to discuss these things, in the context of discussing the ongoing political issues of each state is going to get easily drowned out by it. Why does it have to be a single thread? If these are complicated questions, why not give them space to breath? This is exactly the type of stuff I mean when I say the solutions to D&D's problems lie outside of the current mod team.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:15
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Skyl3lazer posted:Why does it have to be a single thread? If these are complicated questions, why not give them space to breath? This is exactly the type of stuff I mean when I say the solutions to D&D's problems lie outside of the current mod team. How? Open to suggestions for me and/or future mod teams. Most people don't want to dig through a thread to find the single topic they were trying to discuss, that's part of why we split out topics in USNews (since D&D is for the most part US Centric)
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Oct 26, 2021 15:16
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CommieGIR posted:How? Open to suggestions for me and/or future mod teams. Most people don't want to dig through a thread to find the single topic they were trying to discuss, that's part of why we split out topics in USNews (since D&D is for the most part US Centric) Why not just have a timeout on the topic temporarily if it really is overriding all conversation for X amount of time instead of shunting the topic off to die?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:18
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Sedisp posted:Why not just have a timeout on the topic temporarily if it really is overriding all conversation for X amount of time instead of shunting the topic off to die? Most of the threads didn't die though? The Afghanistan thread and Police threads were very active for a long time. A timeout sounds cool, but how would you do it? Set a topic timer and link in the op?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:19
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CommieGIR posted:How? Open to suggestions for me and/or future mod teams. Most people don't want to dig through a thread to find the single topic they were trying to discuss, that's part of why we split out topics in USNews (since D&D is for the most part US Centric) We don't trust your judgement on when something has become extraneous.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:22
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Not to distract from CommieGIR's currently ongoing meltdown, but if all you brilliant mods knew I was trolling from the moment I showed up, why did one of you blank my redtext for free without me even asking? That's weird.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:24
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CommieGIR posted:Most of the threads didn't die though? The Afghanistan thread and Police threads were very active for a long time. Depending on the topic yeah they can have legs but if it's something that's only going to get sporadic updates it's just gonna die. I don't know if you'd even need to have anything other than a mod popping in and just saying cool it with X till whenever. Most people will get the hint and chill out if they don't sixer them ramp if they do it constantly.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:24
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Not to distract from CommieGIR's currently ongoing meltdown, but if all you brilliant mods knew I was trolling from the moment I showed up, why did one of you blank my redtext for free without me even asking? That's weird. So you're mad that people were nice to you?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:25
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Not to distract from CommieGIR's currently ongoing meltdown, but if all you brilliant mods knew I was trolling from the moment I showed up, why did one of you blank my redtext for free without me even asking? That's weird. YEEESSS I KNEW IT I KNEW IT
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Oct 26, 2021 15:26
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Just a reminder to Deteriorata that we aren't supposed to respond directly to other posters in this thread, because the mods don't want it to devolve into a slapfight.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:27
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Just a reminder that we aren't supposed to respond directly to other posters in this thread, because the mods don't want it to devolve into a slapfight. Frankly I feel opening it up has helped, we got a lot of good feedback in the first 6 pages, now I think discussion is more warranted and it seems like most other posters agree. Worth noting that they had already updated the rules removing the single post rule prior to this. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 15:28
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CommieGIR posted:That's called Whataboutism. And I don't think anybody was defending the US's outright Islamaphobic war. "Whataboutism" is an imperialist propaganda term deployed by the US government to avoid discussion of its many crimes, so yes, you are defending the US every single time you utter it. How is this relevant to forum feedback? Why are you seemingly unable to engage with the community you oversee without this bitchy confrontational tone?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:30
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ram dass in hell posted:"Whataboutism" is an imperialist propaganda term deployed by the US government to avoid discussion of its many crimes, so yes, you are defending the US every single time you utter it. How is this relevant to forum feedback? Why are you seemingly unable to engage with the community you oversee without this bitchy confrontational tone? Actually it was Soviet if I recall correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
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Oct 26, 2021 15:31
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CommieGIR posted:Actually it was Soviet. ?????????????
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Oct 26, 2021 15:32
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CommieGIR posted:Actually it was Soviet if I recall correctly: Yes, Soviet claims of "you have no room to judge what we're doing, clean your own home first" were simply handwaved away by calling it "whataboutism." This is exactly what ram dass is telling you.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:33
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Oh my God, my feedback is to do whatever the gently caress you have to to keep "debates" like this from happening. Who loving cares.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:34
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Lib and let die posted:Yes, Soviet claims of "you have no room to judge what we're doing, clean your own home first" were simply handwaved away by calling it "whataboutism." This is exactly what ram dass is telling you. Ah, gotcha, my bad.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:34
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ram dass in hell posted:"Whataboutism" is an imperialist propaganda term deployed by the US government to avoid discussion of its many crimes, so yes, you are defending the US every single time you utter it. How is this relevant to forum feedback? Why are you seemingly unable to engage with the community you oversee without this bitchy confrontational tone? OK, let's call it "changing the subject" then? Is it not changing the subject to swerve from talking about Xinjiang to the US's wars or is there some substantial connection between the two? No one said that the US's wars aren't bad. But oh look, they used the 'W' word so they must be an imperialist shill, we'll just call them that and now we won the argument! JFC. e: This is the problem with D&D, btw. Not bad mods, posters who are devoted to scoring points on any little thing they disagree with over making an actual insightful contribution to the topic at hand. If anything this kind of poo poo gets too light a touch. Just don't loving post if this is all you have.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:36
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