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How are u posted:I can't even remember breens spring. I had to look it up in the wiki and its one of the towns on the road to Caemlyn and not even plot important enough to make the chapter summary. I think the mention of it was that its the furthest from Caemlyn that the Queen's guard still patrols
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Oct 26, 2021 01:41
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The Glumslinger posted:I had to look it up in the wiki and its one of the towns on the road to Caemlyn and not even plot important enough to make the chapter summary. I think the mention of it was that its the furthest from Caemlyn that the Queen's guard still patrols Actually, that's kind of clever. By moving the action to Breen's Spring, they make it so that even book readers aren't sure what's going to happen there. Will it be stuff from Baerlon like Fain, the Whitecloaks, or Min? Or Whitebridge with the Fade? Or Four Kings and the darkfriends? Or some combination of events, or even something entirely new? Beats me. Gotta watch the show to find out.
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Oct 26, 2021 01:51
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Extended trailer: Moiraine includes Egwene in the list of potential Dragon Reborns? Honestly that makes sense to me. I bet she's Taveren too.
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Oct 26, 2021 01:54
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Nihilarian posted:Extended trailer: Moiraine includes Egwene in the list of potential Dragon Reborns? Honestly that makes sense to me. I bet she's Taveren too. Given all the stuff the Wonder Girls get up to in the books, it always struck me as odd that they weren't all ta'veran. The Light knows they were always at the right places at the right times, just like the boys....
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Oct 26, 2021 01:58
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yeah, it was always kind of a weird oversight in a way that i think the show has a chance to maybe change around? who knows
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Oct 26, 2021 02:27
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Two mapthoughts: 1. Shadar Logoth was "Once the richest and most powerful city in the world,"? Aridhol's getting a bump up in status. Not by a ton, sure, but I don't remember it being the richest and most powerful, just prosperous-nation's-capital level. 2. The Kingdom of Tear? Interesting that they call it that. Tear had a King, and the High Lords may not have done much to change the structure of government since the last time it did. I wonder if Be'lal will be the newly crowned King Samon the First? Or if it'll be a Kingdom Without A King? seaborgium posted:Even that, while him being in the Two Rivers is a bit odd, it wasn't like some huge post that absolutely everyone knows who he is nor is it a super famous post. He certainly would have been known in Illian's army and probably their nobility with having a heron mark blade, but it's not like he's one of the Great Captains. I don't think which of the boys was the one was ever in much doubt for Moiraine, for long. Rand's first channeling happens on the road from Emond's Field to Watch Hill, and Moiraine notices something's up when Bela is just ... not tired, after running along the road for just as long as the other horses. Y'know, thinking about this makes me wonder: Is Egwene older in the show? The apparent ambiguity between Rand/Perrin/Mat involves the fact that they were all born within the same month. Maybe TV-Show Egwene will also be the same age, instead of a couple years younger.
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Oct 26, 2021 02:51
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i'm pretty sure they've explicitly said that the characters are aged up a bit since it helps take away some of the potential 'young adult' vibes having younger characters might bring, so realistically they can bump egwene into the same group as the rest during the shift
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Oct 26, 2021 02:54
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jng2058 posted:Given all the stuff the Wonder Girls get up to in the books, it always struck me as odd that they weren't all ta'veran. The Light knows they were always at the right places at the right times, just like the boys.... It would be patently absurd for 5 young people from the same village, young men and young women, to all be ta'veran. Utterly insane. Now, 3 young people from the same village? Completely believable. As long as they're all men.
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Oct 26, 2021 03:12
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The wonder girls are Sa’veren, they form the warp to the weft of the Ta’veren. This of course means that the various attempts at naeblis are N’veren, the null between the warp and weft, behind which is naturally Sa’Ta’N’…
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Oct 26, 2021 03:42
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Neil Breen could be one of the lamer forsaken
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Oct 26, 2021 05:16
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The map mentions a quarry at Breen's Spring so I'm wondering if they'll have that be where Rand sees the Choden Kal statue.
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Oct 26, 2021 05:50
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Breen's Spring will be where Horny Else lives
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Oct 26, 2021 07:22
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Brolander posted:the pattern made her go there, rand started tugging at the world from breath 1 jng2058 posted:Given all the stuff the Wonder Girls get up to in the books, it always struck me as odd that they weren't all ta'veran. The Light knows they were always at the right places at the right times, just like the boys.... It's also pretty neat that, in the very end, it culminates in random normal-person inkeeper's daughter Egwewne al'Vere getting technical credit for winning the Last Battle. In a story ostensibly about fate and chosen ones, it's those who aren't that really get the job done.
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Oct 26, 2021 08:15
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I thought there was a *wink wink nudge nudge* line in New Spring where Moiraine or Siuan said something like, "there are a whole bunch of people on this list who might have the Dragon and they've scattered everywhere. Maybe it's this lady, Jane Johnson. Or maybe this guy, Tam Al'Thor. It'll probably take many years to find them all and check."
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Oct 26, 2021 10:16
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I'm surprised it looks like they've cut Whitebridge. That seemed like a gimme location.
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Oct 26, 2021 12:06
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I think they're cutting a lot of things that will make people say it's a rip off off Lord of the Rings.
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Oct 26, 2021 12:11
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I feel like Egwene reads as a Ta'veren, I'm just rereading Book 8 right now and the way it describes circumstances falling into her lap, admittedly with her own nudges, feels like Ta'veren at work. I don't feel like Nynaeve or Elayne necessarily read that way. They luck out in some places, but they just feel like talented and capable characters most of the time, rather than ones where circumstance plays a great role in what happens to them.
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Oct 26, 2021 12:12
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The narrator is the most ta'veren of all. It's crazy! He's always there to see what's going on, with whoever it is!
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Oct 26, 2021 12:38
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jng2058 posted:Given all the stuff the Wonder Girls get up to in the books, it always struck me as odd that they weren't all ta'veran. The Light knows they were always at the right places at the right times, just like the boys.... the reason is that the original story's main character was a tam-like guy who was split into tam and four wonder boys. the wonder girls were a later addition. the split was done and the wonder girls were added for marketing reasons. one of the wonder boys, the pretty face, was dropped from the a-list quite late and he shows on the first book's cover.
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Oct 26, 2021 12:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm surprised it looks like they've cut Whitebridge. That seemed like a gimme location. I guess it's a fairly pricey setpiece that wouldn't see enough use to justify the cost of making it
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Oct 26, 2021 13:07
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Natural 20 posted:I feel like Egwene reads as a Ta'veren, I'm just rereading Book 8 right now and the way it describes circumstances falling into her lap, admittedly with her own nudges, feels like Ta'veren at work. Even Nynaeve spends a lot of time being one of the most powerful channelers in the books and discovering previously-thought-to-be-impossible magic through her own genius. They should go ahead and make all 5 ta'veren imo (but not Elayne lol)
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Oct 26, 2021 13:23
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eke out posted:Even Nynaeve spends a lot of time being one of the most powerful channelers in the books and discovering previously-thought-to-be-impossible magic through her own genius. They should go ahead and make all 5 ta'veren imo (but not Elayne lol) Yeah I could see it, but to me there's a distinction between being amazingly talented and Ta'veren if that makes sense? Nynaeve is incredible but Damer Flinn manages the same stuff she does without ever conferring with her because he's also an incredibly talented healer. The reason I feel Nynaeve is distinct is that to an extent, her following from Emond's Field in Book 1 feels like her being caught in Ta'veren's flow. That said I suppose you could argue that Mat and Perrin are caught in Rand's pull as well.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:27
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I suspect the shows won't even dive into the ta'veren thing
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Oct 26, 2021 14:37
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There are only a few incidents where tav'veren type incidents occur (the biggest being the way her block gets cleared) around Nyneave alone, and we see in the Sea Folk negotiations that Mat massively warps the world in a way that Elayne and Nyneave do not. Besides that, I like the idea that a lot of the key players did not win on a Destiny Says So basis.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:38
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Natural 20 posted:That said I suppose you could argue that Mat and Perrin are caught in Rand's pull as well. not even an argument, really, since mat literally finds himself unable to leave rand at times lol but you're not wrong. i always kinda assume people like egwene and nynaeve would be considered ta'veren in normal times, but when you're hanging out with the dragon reborn and his two chosen friends (that're probably also reincarnated heroes), your protagonist powers look less spectacular by comparison. egwene probably is the strongest choice to add
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Oct 26, 2021 14:47
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There's a decent argument for Egwene being somewhat ta'veren in the sense that basically all the stars align to open up her path to the Amyrlin Seat. She's not on the level of Rand but what she does seems comparable to Perrin. Mat is sortof a unique case because there's an argument that he might also have "the dark one's own luck" due to his association with Shadar Logoth. Fain is described by I think Bornhald has having "the dark one's own luck" and fain thinks to himself that he is able to do "tricks". So Mat may be taking multiple "luck" feats, as it were. It's not really answered in the text fully.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:01
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Rarity posted:I suspect the shows won't even dive into the ta'veren thing but Loial saying ta'veren every other time he opens his mouth is great
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Oct 26, 2021 15:02
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Every PoV character is taveran
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Oct 26, 2021 15:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a decent argument for Egwene being somewhat ta'veren in the sense that basically all the stars align to open up her path to the Amyrlin Seat. She's not on the level of Rand but what she does seems comparable to Perrin. It's this and then when she's the Seat, she just so happens to have two Sitters who are both far above the others in standing and who hate each other. And as it turns out she can play them off against each other to establish her power as Amyrlin.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:24
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i would 100% be able to see egwene as ta'veren if it comes to adding the distinction to at least one other person beyond the usual. obviously there's different levels of it and nobody even remotely compares to rand (to the point where mat, as said before, finds it hard to escape his radius) but i've always thought it's more bizarre for her to not be at least one on a minor level than for her to be included with the already abnormal selection of the main 3.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:29
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RC Cola posted:Every PoV character is taveran especially bayle domon
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Oct 26, 2021 15:42
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Rarity posted:I suspect the shows won't even dive into the ta'veren thing Mat's whole power is being ta-veren. He's not strong or have wolf stuff like Perrin, or have channeling like Rand. Mat's just a hyper-ta'veren who causes all probability to warp around him to his whims.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:47
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Nitrousoxide posted:Mat's whole power is being ta-veren. He's not strong or have wolf stuff like Perrin, or have channeling like Rand. Mat's just a hyper-ta'veren who causes all probability to warp around him to his whims. Yeah you can just say he's lucky though
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Oct 26, 2021 16:08
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I would say that the main argument against Egwene being ta'veren is that she interacts with multiple characters who have the explicit talent of seeing ta'veren (Suian, Logain) and none of them ever mention it, even in POV. Nitrousoxide posted:Mat's whole power is being ta-veren. He's not strong or have wolf stuff like Perrin, or have channeling like Rand. Mat's just a hyper-ta'veren who causes all probability to warp around him to his whims. Nah, Mat has innate powers beyond being ta'veren. It's worth remembering that both his luck and his past memories are innate abilities that existed to a lesser extent before he encountered either the dagger or the Finn. It's strongly hinted that he's the direct reincarnation of a king or great general of Manetheran, possibly Aemon. His ta'veren-ness and the Finn just enhanced and added to what was already there.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:26
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I would say that the main argument against Egwene being ta'veren is that she interacts with multiple characters who have the explicit talent of seeing ta'veren (Suian, Logain) and none of them ever mention it, even in POV. Rand also has access to past memories as The Dragon (in fact, to an even greater extent than Mat since he's able to have conversations with his past life), so I don't know if that's a unique skill of Mat. Did Perrin too? I can't remember him ever having them. Being able to access past life stuff might just be a part of being ta-veren since the pattern reusees souls for as nexus points for events.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:38
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No, Perrin just talks to wolves instead of dead people
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Oct 26, 2021 16:39
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:No, Perrin just talks to wolves instead of dead people It's possible Perrin might not have been a reincarnation from the Age of Legands, or he could also just be a new ta'verin. Presumably the pattern has to occasionally create new, never-before-seen ta'verins as previously used ones get burned out of the pattern through balefire (or other means) and can't be reused.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:43
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Nitrousoxide posted:Presumably the pattern has to occasionally create new, never-before-seen ta'verins as previously used ones get burned out of the pattern through balefire (or other means) and can't be reused. It's not clear that that happens. RJ said in interviews that balefire doesn't perma-kill you, it just kills you backward in time, so the Dark One can't grab your soul at the point of death and then reincarnate it. Death in Tel'aran'rhiod *might* be perma-death but even that isn't fully clear. And if it can that means Hopper got fridged twice which goddammmmit That said it is stated that the Wheel sometimes does add to the number of the Heroes of the Horn. But it isn't clear that the set of ta'veren is the same as the set of Heroes. In fact we know there is not such an overlap because I believe it's clearly stated in the final book that Mathas repeatedly refused to be a Hero of the Horn.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:46
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Natural 20 posted:It's this and then when she's the Seat, she just so happens to have two Sitters who are both far above the others in standing and who hate each other. And as it turns out she can play them off against each other to establish her power as Amyrlin.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's not clear that that happens. RJ said in interviews that balefire doesn't perma-kill you, it just kills you backward in time, so the Dark One can't grab your soul at the point of death and then reincarnate it. Since ta'veren don't necessarily need to be good fighters, and good fighters don't necessarily need to be influential people, I don't see why there would be complete overlap between those sets Thinking about it though, it's unlucky that the heroes of the horn don't include, like people with guns from previous ages. Think of how much better 1 dude with a gun would be than like 20 heroes with swords or maces.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:54
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