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Thanks friends. I appreciate all the advice & input. Also I'd like to thank my fat emergency fund for giving my some extra confidence while taking some chances.
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Oct 22, 2021 18:20
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a dingus posted:I accepted an offer! I was able to negotiate my first offer of 140k TC (130k base/7% bonus/5k sign on) to 161k TC (145k base/11% bonus/10k sign on). This is a 60% raise! I followed all of the advice in the thread & some negotiation videos from levels.fyi Get it! 
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Oct 22, 2021 19:22
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Omne posted:Indeed it is, and as a hiring manager it is loving crazy difficult right now. Any little misstep and you lose the candidate. Then you get to offer stage and you realize what was solid a few months ago no longer is. leper khan posted:Read ctci, practice a bit of leetcode, and be able to communicate cogently to product people. as a current sde job seeker this is pretty useful info, thank you. everything I've been reading makes it sound like applying is just a numbers game. I wonder how many more dozens of rejections it will take for me to get used to being told "no," ha ha
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Oct 22, 2021 20:59
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kalel posted:as a current sde job seeker this is pretty useful info, thank you. everything I've been reading makes it sound like applying is just a numbers game. I wonder how many more dozens of rejections it will take for me to get used to being told "no," ha ha In a way yes, it is a numbers game in that cold application interview conversation rate is in the single digits (1-3% is common for early career), but also not in that you need to also interview well, as much as that’s obvious I mainly wanted to provide the conversion rates since I like data
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Oct 25, 2021 21:18
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Also note, that while it's a numbers game that doesn't mean you shouldn't strategize. Budget for a handful of applications each week that you spend real time on. That means customizing a cover letter (if they accept them), tweaking your resume to match the position, looking at your linkedin to see if you have anyone in your 1st or 2nd network who can refer you. Realistically you'll only have the time/energy to do this for a handful of jobs a week, but if you use this for the jobs that look particularly "gettable" or that you are a good fit for, it can really help. Otherwise hit the rest with your (hopefully good) generic resume.
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Oct 25, 2021 21:52
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I got a new grad offer from the company I worked at last summer, which I would like to go back to. The offer is for ~100k salary, 10% bonus, and 50k stock over 3 years. So like ~110ish a year. Most of the other benefits are solid (ie option to be fully remote, 4 weeks pto, etc), except their health insurance has pretty limited benefits in one specific area where I need consistent coverage, which could end up costing like ~8k a year on their plan. On Glassdoor, the highest salary for my role has a base pay of 115k. Should I just ask for that and hope to land closer to 110k base? Is there any sense in mentioning the issue with their health insurance (my instinct is no, just ask for more money without going into specifics but idk)? Are there other areas that I should think about for negotiating? Realistically I'd still be happy with their base pay, but it is a good bit lower than other places I've been interviewing at (130-190k total comp). Admittedly it isn't apples to apples - those are big tech/FAANG, this is in games, those are swe/data scientist roles, this is for a data analyst position - but I'd still like the gap to be a bit smaller. It seems like I'm a more competitive candidate than I'd realized, and if there's some way I could leverage that I'd like to.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:19
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If you have a competing offer, then you should use that as leverage. If you don't, then you should just ask for more. You can phrase it as I need X, Y, Z to accept immediately and allude to other options.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:56
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foutre posted:I got a new grad offer from the company I worked at last summer, which I would like to go back to. Games will basically never pay the FAANG rates. Historically, my offers in mobile games have been more competitive than the ones from AAA console stuff. But I've also been in GaaS my whole career. Avoid going into specifics. Explaining why you want number just gives people an out to not give you number. If I was given 100 and wanted 110, I'd ask for 120.
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Oct 27, 2021 06:39
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Does anyone have experience negotiating executive pay, particularly at a fortune ranked company Seems like bonus is around 35% of base? Anything else? How is executive pay even structured. Base, annual bonus, sales bonus, uh at one place they had a $15,000 social bonus for joining country clubs etc but I imagine that varies from company to company. Also pretty sure executive band gets you a different class of healthcare benefits
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Oct 27, 2021 08:39
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leper khan posted:Games will basically never pay the FAANG rates. Historically, my offers in mobile games have been more competitive than the ones from AAA console stuff. But I've also been in GaaS my whole career. asur posted:If you have a competing offer, then you should use that as leverage. If you don't, then you should just ask for more. You can phrase it as I need X, Y, Z to accept immediately and allude to other options. Cool, sounds good! I'll just ask v directly, I was for sure overthinking it. And yeah, the lower rates across the board makes sense - I'm alright with that, just figure I may as well try and mitigate it a bit. foutre fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 08:45
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Hadlock posted:Does anyone have experience negotiating executive pay, particularly at a fortune ranked company I'd have to ask people I know who've already moved into executive roles at large orgs. Not sure how many of those we have in the thread. I'd assume stock grants are a significant portion of pay that you haven't listed?
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Oct 27, 2021 13:36
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I work remote for a small consultancy that is based in Socal but I'm in Reno. Pleasant and rewarding job but long odd hours. Lots of last-minute travel. With OT I'm around $150k. Half of that is to the Bay area. Boss man wants someone in the Bay that can run their own projects, and I'm his only current employee who fits that bill by a country mile. When we spoke last week about it, we both agreed he'd have to come up with a number is more than anyone else in the company makes by a decent margin, and there's pushback from him and one of the VPs. They know COL is crazy high there but can't get past the number. They want me to write a proposal for the gig, which I've never heard of before. Anyone else? My wife is keen to get over there where there are more opportunities for her. I have a feeling that I'll write this thing for $X (haven't figured out what that is yet) and he'll just use that to recruit someone more junior for $X-50. Were real small, and informal. Boss is generally a very cool guy, runs the business end of the shop well and has stayed profitable while other competitors folded. Just every once in a while he just gets into MBA mode and I don't speak the language.
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Oct 27, 2021 14:30
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I have no advice for the proposal but just want to warn you to under no circumstances take that assignment for anything less than crazy money. The Normalbucks-to-Baybucks exchange rate is insane. (Does your wife know this? I mean the specifics, not just a vague awareness that the cost of living is high there.) If it were me I'd just print off a bunch of real estate listings for tiny apartments in the Bay Area and give it to them. There's my proposal, any questions?
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Oct 27, 2021 15:37
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Figure out what the number of billable hours are, give yourself a premium rate since your new location will allow you to pick up more work based on proximity For what your boss is proposing, you'll need probably 300-350 total comp to match your current lifestyle; renting a house in SF is about $7000 a month and 2-3 bedroom condos are $5k, plus city/state taxes are higher as well. It's cheaper in east bay, but then you have the commute, which is awful, and you're not saving much money Your boss probably is thinking you'll go there for $200 and take a QoL hit for free? Not sure based on the level of detail given. Might be worth it at $275 but $150 in Reno is respectable, $150 in bay area gets you a nice 1 bedroom rental and a Honda Civic, don't even think about trying to buy
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Oct 27, 2021 15:56
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Did exactly this:quote:If I was given 100 and wanted 110, I'd ask for 120. And got it plus a signing bonus. Ty for the advice! Also just seconding Hadlock's advice re the relative cost to live in the Bay vs Reno. Living in Oakland isn't bad if you have a pretty direct BART commute, but housing prices aren't /that/ much lower and if you have to drive it'll be a journey.
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Oct 27, 2021 22:50
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quote:wanted 110, I'd ask for 120. Wanted 110, thought I'd get 104, asked for 120, got 120  job market is crazy right now, boys 
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Oct 27, 2021 23:49
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foutre posted:Did exactly this: Another thread success. Congrats! 
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Oct 27, 2021 23:51
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Hadlock posted:Wanted 110, thought I'd get 104, asked for 120, got 120 Congrats! Yeah it's nuts. I feel like my coworkers must not know what they're missing out on or they're extremely lazy not to move.
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Oct 28, 2021 00:01
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pumped up for school posted:I work remote for a small consultancy that is based in Socal but I'm in Reno. Pleasant and rewarding job but long odd hours. Lots of last-minute travel. With OT I'm around $150k. Half of that is to the Bay area. just as a reference point, fed gov COL adjustment would put you at something like 30% above what you are making now (rest of US is 15%, Bay is 44%) you mentioned OT in your post - would your OT situation change? its weird to me to think of consultants getting OT
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Oct 28, 2021 03:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:just as a reference point, fed gov COL adjustment would put you at something like 30% above what you are making now (rest of US is 15%, Bay is 44%) Thank for all for the replies. For this one: I shouldn't call it OT. If long days are billable, I can charge it at straight time. I've been thinking about it, and the likelihood of my OT reducing is low. If things work out as our company is hoping, it could be more. I'd prefer it go down and be home more. For the other replies - Most of my clients are in Oakland, so we were looking at East Bay. My competitors are north, Novato and Petaluma. Probably because of COL. my wife looked at housing costs and now her interest has waned. Even if we sell our house now while our market is hot, every cent of the profit (120-140k after sellers fees) wouldn't be be a great down payment on a new home loan. My wife is a meditation teacher, so that's going to work better for her in a place like Berkeley than good old Reno. If I had to guess, would think Boss would top off at 225. I don't see that working. Thanks again, thread!
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Oct 28, 2021 13:46
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For negotiating a higher offer, is there any worth to discussing it with the recruiter over the phone? Or is shooting off an email fine?
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Oct 28, 2021 14:09
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Email. It's easy to make a bad decision under pressure when you're on the phone or misunderstand the offer. Email gives you all the time you need to understand & clarify everything.
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Oct 28, 2021 14:14
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Dazerbeams posted:For negotiating a higher offer, is there any worth to discussing it with the recruiter over the phone? Or is shooting off an email fine? a dingus posted:Email. It's easy to make a bad decision under pressure when you're on the phone or misunderstand the offer. Email gives you all the time you need to understand & clarify everything. They probably want to do things over the phone. Grab a notebook and wrote everything down. Then write down what you would respond with before saying anything concrete. If you are missing information to calculate your response, ask for it. E: the thing you may need to ask for is time. But it'd be useful to look up COL adjustments and market rates on levels.fyi before the call. Again, put that on the page for the call.
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Oct 28, 2021 14:33
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Dazerbeams posted:For negotiating a higher offer, is there any worth to discussing it with the recruiter over the phone? Or is shooting off an email fine? as a dingus said, you should absolutely NOT do this over the phone edit: if you have a phone call make sure you send a confirmatory email and get an acknowledgement
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Oct 28, 2021 14:37
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I should clarify, the initial offer came over the phone last night. Have not commit to anything yet. Have not received the written offer yet. I should email the recruiter to acknowledge the verbal offer and get the written offer sent over. Then once I have it in hand, email the recruiter asking for more?
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Oct 28, 2021 15:09
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Dazerbeams posted:I should clarify, the initial offer came over the phone last night. Have not commit to anything yet. Have not received the written offer yet. I should email the recruiter to acknowledge the verbal offer and get the written offer sent over. Then once I have it in hand, email the recruiter asking for more? You should negotiate while you have the verbal offer. Acknowledge and confirm the verbal offer over email.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:16
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Hadlock posted:Does anyone have experience negotiating executive pay, particularly at a fortune ranked company FYI, re: executive negotiation Seems like there is a $350-ish cap on base salary; so far not getting any pushback on 35% bonus
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Oct 28, 2021 21:57
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Wanted to take a minute to thank the regular posters ITT. I negotiate regularly at work, but have only really negotiated a salary offer a couple of times, and I have never worked in a traditional corporate environment. I really didn't know how to effectively explain the basics of a corporate salary negotiation to people who have never considered negotiating in their lives. This thread has helped me convey a lot of great information to my wife and her sister over the last couple years. Their dad is a 'never ask for more, but stay bitter that you didn't get what you deserve' type and it took some prodding to help them both unlearn that during their job searches. I've given them verbatim guidance strait out of this thread many times to help them advocate for themselves over the last couple years. Both had opportunities come up this last month, and I read the OP again as a refresher to help them both. Didn't need it at all, since both knew exactly how to negotiate their specific scenarios from the previous times we had talked about it. Extremely proud of both of them. Both are currently making at least 10-15 percent more than they would have without the advice in here. Appreciate your help, goons.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:25
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Initial offer was 130k base with a 15k sign on bonus. Asked for 150k, got 140k base with 15k bonus and another 15k bonus that will kick in a year later. So the offer went from 145k to 170k. Thanks goons!
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Oct 29, 2021 22:01
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Dazerbeams posted:Initial offer was 130k base with a 15k sign on bonus. Asked for 150k, got 140k base with 15k bonus and another 15k bonus that will kick in a year later. So the offer went from 145k to 170k. Thanks goons!
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Oct 29, 2021 22:15
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I just got an (emailed) offer as a software developer that I'm planning on accepting. Starting PTO+Sick Days for new hires (including me) is 18 days a year and adds a week at the 5 and 10 year marks. I'm a senior engineer with 12 years of experience being hired on as a "Software Engineer Senior III." I'm also a terrible negotiator and need all the help you can give me. Can I get some advice on how to phrase emailing back a request to have my years of experience counted towards how much PTO I'm allowed? I asked about the possibility while discussing benefits during the interview process but the offer they emailed me didn't say either way, just blandly listed the default starting PTO. The person who emailed the offer is a different HR rep from the one I talked to before. The company is a bit odd in that they go over the benefits package as the last "interview" after the other half-dozen interviews they do in their interview process. LLSix fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 03:43
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The term I've most commonly heard is "bridge" i.e. "I want to bridge my 12 years of experience, so that I join the company at a rate of .75 years tenure for each year of professional experience, for the purposes of counting towards my extra vacation company policy, so that I start with 23 days vacation per year, and will jump to 28 days after X years employment with your company Y starting Jan 1, 202Z"
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Oct 30, 2021 03:50
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LLSix posted:I just got an (emailed) offer as a software developer that I'm planning on accepting. Starting PTO+Sick Days for new hires (including me) is 18 days a year and adds a week at the 5 and 10 year marks. I'm a senior engineer with 12 years of experience being hired on as a "Software Engineer Senior III." Can I get some advice on how to phrase emailing back a request to have my years of experience counted towards how much PTO I'm allowed? I asked about the possibility while discussing benefits during the interview process but the offer they emailed me didn't say either way, just blandly listed the default starting PTO. The person who emailed the offer is a different HR rep from the one I talked to before. Just reiterate that given your experience, you expect the PTO accrual package to make sense. in a nice way, but yes don't let that slide Hadlock posted:The term I've most commonly heard is "bridge" i.e. "I want to bridge my 12 years of experience, so that I join the company at a rate of .75 years tenure for each year of professional experience, for the purposes of counting towards my extra vacation company policy, so that I start with 23 days vacation per year, and will jump to 28 days after X years employment with your company Y starting Jan 1, 202Z" yeah this
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Oct 30, 2021 03:51
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Marathon petroleum calls it a vacation service enhancement and you can see the details how their program works here http://www.mympcbenefits.com/Documents/MPC-2021-Vacation-Plan.pdf My current company does not offer anything like this but they start us off at 25 days of PTO going to 35 at 10 years and 45 days at 20 years.
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Oct 30, 2021 04:01
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Another guy I worked with has negotiating an offer with a company that should be sending me out one too, I gave him the highlights from this thread. He is now in the “I should have asked for more!” Stage where he asked for what he wanted and they gave it. I had told him to overshoot but he didn’t want to risk it. The funny thing is the amount is what he said he would be really happy with but now he’s thinking he could have gone up more. I tell him don’t sweat it, it’s what you wanted! I do wonder if it will anchor my offer to his (with what they start with), I am a level up from him and am curious if I can extend it up significantly if it was easy for him to get what he wanted.
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Oct 30, 2021 23:39
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I have an offer that I really don't want to risk losing. They're offering the rather oddly specific salary of 10,166.67 a month. What's a reasonable counter number to ask for? 12k/month? That's an increase from ~122k/year to $144/year which seems like it might be a bit much. Would 11.2k/month be reasonable? The external recruiter said to expect an offer in the 127k - 137k range so I'm concerned that the initial offer they're making is 5k under the low end of that range. I don't want to push too hard, but I do want to be able to pivot to asking for a higher salary if they won't increase my PTO which is what I really want.
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Oct 31, 2021 19:41
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My dude, don't worry about losing the offer. The worst thing that can happen is they simply say "no, the offer is not negotiable, take it or leave it," in which case you take it, if you're already satisfied with it. No harm done. If you're thinking "no no Eric, the worst thing that can happen is that they pull the offer, I really want this job," then your thinking is misguided. It would be a great thing for you if you negotiated and they pulled the offer. The only thing that can ever mean is that, despite all appearance to the contrary they might have given you, they are a horrific hellhouse and you would have been miserable working there. Say "Thanks! I can't wait to join the team. $10.1K a month doesn't work for me I'm afraid, if we can do $12K a month I'm in." Wait and see what response you get. Don't say anything about what the recruiter said; don't give any rationale at all. Just say "I need $12K." FWIW though, recruiters lie. A lot. It's practically all they do, really.
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Oct 31, 2021 20:15
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LLSix posted:I have an offer that I really don't want to risk losing. I don't want to push too hard, Respectfully, grow a pair Start at $150 and back down until you meet at a happy medium, sounding like $140 probably. Negotiating is negotiating, working is working, there is no overlap between the two. How many years experience do you have and what region of the county Don't ever accept a low ball offer
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Oct 31, 2021 20:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:Don't say anything about what the recruiter said; don't give any rationale at all. Just say "I need $12K." It always feels tempting to provide some reason. Like "my rent is really high" or "I'm going to have a kid". But it's almost always a stronger move to just say "I would be really excited if you upped your offer by $20k". They've made an offer, which means that they want to hire you. So your counter-offer is "please make me want to be hired by you".
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Oct 31, 2021 21:27
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"I really want to make this work, the team is awesome and I'd be perfect for this role, but I need $X to move right now" is all you need to say. And then hopefully next they'll give you their best offer and you can accept that, or ask for a couple thousand over that
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Nov 1, 2021 01:21
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