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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)
 
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Feldegast42
Oct 29, 2011

COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

Lostconfused posted:

Billions of what?

Dollars

There is probably some minor human cost too but w/e

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eSports Chaebol
Feb 22, 2005

Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

dead gay comedy forums posted:

incredible energy there, gotta appreciate

Ah, here it is in the book, under “A00: Irregular Openings”—the Saakashvili Gambit!

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/TSMC-founder-chides-U.S.-plan-for-full-chip-supply-chain-onshore

quote:

As U.S. lawmakers look to invest $52 billion in the American chip industry, the founder of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. calls the plan far too small for rebuilding a complete supply chain in the country.

Morris Chang, an American citizen who founded the company that is now the world's most valuable chipmaker, says it would be impossible for the U.S. to have a full chip supply chain onshore even if it spent far more -- and that such a move may not be financially desirable in any case.

"If you want to reestablish a complete semiconductor supply chain in the U.S., you will not find it as a possible task," Chang told a tech industry forum in Taipei on Tuesday night. "Even after you spend hundreds of billions of dollars, you will still find the supply chain to be incomplete, and you will find that it will be very high cost, much higher costs than what you currently have."

The U.S. accounted for 37% of global semiconductor manufacturing in the 1990s, but has fallen to 12%, Semiconductor Industry Association data shows.

Washington is campaigning to bring more chip production onto American soil, amid concern about an overreliance on Taiwan. The U.S. Senate this year passed a $52 billion bill to support domestic semiconductor manufacturing and R&D, though the package has yet to become law.

Chang, who retired from TSMC in 2018, claimed that some people arguing for bringing the chip supply chain onshore are driven by self-interest. Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger advocates for more manufacturing in the U.S. as "it is not safe in Taiwan and it is not safe in South Korea," Chang said, while Intel hopes to secure funding from the $52 billion subsidy package.

Rethinking the supply chain will be a challenge for everyone, Chang said.

"In the past, companies in the U.S. or in Asia were growing and prospering thanks to globalization and free trade," he said. Chang cited Thomas Friedman's book, "The World Is Flat," in which the commentator analyzes globalization and the opportunities it creates for nations.

"Well, Tom, the world is not flat anymore," he said. "This is going to be a challenge for the Asian semiconductor industry, global semiconductor industry, including Intel."

Chang's comments Tuesday were the first time he directly and publicly questioned Washington's efforts to rebuild semiconductor manufacturing. His criticism comes despite TSMC's move to build an advanced chip facility in the U.S. state of Arizona in response to the government's campaign.

Previously, Chang had said government efforts around the world to increase chip production could backfire, without specifying which countries. Sandra Oudkirk, director of the American Institute in Taiwan and the top U.S. diplomat in Taipei, was among the audience at the industry forum.

Europe, Japan and China also are gearing up to boost production at home, offering government aid to ensure that chips -- which enable devices from smartphones to military techs -- will remain within their countries.

TSMC recently announced that the company will build its first chip facility in Japan, where Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said his government will support large-scale private-sector investment.

even this guy knows what's up

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Love to reassure my constituents that their homes WILL become a battlefield if necessary.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
what kind of idiot thinks that financial considerations have anything to do with both america and chinas efforts to make semiconductor manufacturing locally?! it’s pretty obvious they bee this as prime strategic resources for a key facet of human life in the 21st century and they will do everything they can to make sure that is never jeopardized by international events even if it’s at a loss.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Al-Saqr posted:

what kind of idiot thinks that financial considerations have anything to do with both america and chinas efforts to make semiconductor manufacturing locally?! it’s pretty obvious they bee this as prime strategic resources for a key facet of human life in the 21st century and they will do everything they can to make sure that is never jeopardized by international events even if it’s at a loss.

well I mean it's also true that Intel is in favor of "the US should dump billions into fabs" because Intel could swoop in on that grift regardless of anything else

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

My deepest respects for that infinite Saakashvili energy

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Why would US cone to the rescue of Taiwan when all they need to do is force TSMC move to US for 1/1000th the cost? Which they are doing now.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

gradenko_2000 posted:

well I mean it's also true that Intel is in favor of "the US should dump billions into fabs" because Intel could swoop in on that grift regardless of anything else

why would US needs actual industries when they can transcend reality through Tesla

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

lmao

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
the levels of “new phone who dis” will be off the charts once the prc crosses the strait

Hedenius
Aug 23, 2007
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1453663382591053828?s=20

These are some of the most wonderful pictures I've ever seen.

Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

Lostconfused posted:

Billions of what?

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

Goast posted:

has china tried any HELLO FELLOW KIDS outreaches via the internet similar to the american military has with their esports and twitch stuff?

Not for military purposes as far as I know, but for all sorts of other stuff they seem to hand talking points to prominent social media types.

That said, there's a powerful/scary vicious undercurrent in China's internet culture in recent years, which basically looks for excuses to semi-randomly savage people in terms of public opinion. No-one wants to provoke that, but everyone would like a little government protection, so.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

https://twitter.com/prchovanec/status/1453524825453043716?s=20

seems like a smart guy all around

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1453308667349114882

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010

Al-Saqr posted:

what kind of idiot thinks that financial considerations have anything to do with both america and chinas efforts to make semiconductor manufacturing locally?! it’s pretty obvious they bee this as prime strategic resources for a key facet of human life in the 21st century and they will do everything they can to make sure that is never jeopardized by international events even if it’s at a loss.

Lol the us will not do "everything they can" to onshore domestic manufacturing capacity or direct a national industrial strategy, certainly not to the scale required in this instance

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

fart simpson posted:

the key thing he was missing in this bit was that average wages have doubled since he wrote that article, more than enough to cover the increase in ticket prices for 1 or 2 train trips a year

median salary in my city has literally tripled since 2011

I read this stuff back in the day. I don't think any of the points he raises is controversial even in China itself. There were plenty of people within the government who were skeptical of HSR. It also doesn't help that one of the prime advocates of HSR, the minister of railways at the time, was later found to have stolen at least hundreds of millions if not billions from the project personally.

I thought Chovenac's writings at the time were reasonable and mostly technocratic, but I guess every China watcher needs to get o the grift sooner or later.

IAMKOREA
Apr 21, 2007

you gotta wonder where they get these videos, given that literally anyone who knows how to write hello world in Python could put boxes with numbers around people walking around on the street by following a 2 hour computer vision tutorial, poo poo isn't hard at all it's literally just figuring out how to use someone else's library

Serf
May 5, 2011


Grapplejack posted:

I mean nike does use forced labor, it's just in bangladesh now

let's be real here, all labor under capitalism is forced labor

hot witch divorcee
Jan 4, 2021

is that a tower in your pants or are you just happy to see me

Throatwarbler posted:

I read this stuff back in the day. I don't think any of the points he raises is controversial even in China itself. There were plenty of people within the government who were skeptical of HSR. It also doesn't help that one of the prime advocates of HSR, the minister of railways at the time, was later found to have stolen at least hundreds of millions if not billions from the project personally.

I thought Chovenac's writings at the time were reasonable and mostly technocratic, but I guess every China watcher needs to get o the grift sooner or later.

i remember seeing stuff like this too, and at the time thinking it was super smart stuff or whatever, but even where it is accurate, the framing is all wrong. liberals can only conceive of infrastructure as a giant bag to be held, and not being able to make money on it at point of use exclusively is just a huge disaster, because the worst thing you can possibly do is make number sad WHY DID YOU MAKE NUMBER SAD TRAINS

in actuality, especially with a communist party in charge, the benefits this kind of rail network brings to the economy and quality of life are near-immeasurable, and well worth the cost to build even if that has some pretty severe sticker shock and takes a large amount of national scale resources. the rail is likely no small part of why, as fart simpson mentioned, median incomes tripled since the rail was constructed

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

IAMKOREA posted:

you gotta wonder where they get these videos, given that literally anyone who knows how to write hello world in Python could put boxes with numbers around people walking around on the street by following a 2 hour computer vision tutorial, poo poo isn't hard at all it's literally just figuring out how to use someone else's library

are you suggesting these videos are edited thats crazy who would just lie like that

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011


*A bunch of poo poo that happens in the US*

How dystopian, only the perfidious orientals could invent a scheme like this

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Red and Black posted:

*A bunch of poo poo that happens in the US*

How dystopian, only the perfidious orientals could invent a scheme like this

*sends airport security scans to group thread*

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
*sees a picture from a tolltag camera* woah, this is dystopian

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
The thing about the Chinese HSR program, both in term of upgrade blueprint and national track roll out, were pretty ambitious and risky programs at the time, right after the 08 financial crisis.

It was reasonable to cast doubt on it because previously attempts of "forced technology transfer" to upgrade the Chinese domestic automobile industrial has not worked out so well. The Chinese gas-powered cars had not been competitive out side of the country, even with many 50-50 share partnership of many major Germany and Japanese brands. It's just so happen that HSR has worked out much better than other industries. The Chinese HSR program (headed by that "Liu Great Leap" guy who got sent to jail later) brought 3 different HSR tech at the same time and smashed them together into their own and upgraded on these techs.

I think it has to do with how much this particular industry need industry policy and state planning. Recently Chinese electric cars (and frankly any electric related transportation things) has become pretty competitive outside of China. So I think this also has to do with how new the technology is and how many old patents Chinese engineers have to go around.

Gorman Thomas
Jul 24, 2007

Lol cops in the US have had this tech in their cruisers for years. loving Target has this poo poo in all their stores.

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
its really weird to see americans complain about excessive surveillance in other places. like, are you blind?

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

https://twitter.com/SanaSaeed/status/1453536483688607746

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Palladium posted:

If I'm him I will be much more alarmed by the USS Connecticut that got smashed up in the SCS for whatever reason
Perfidious China's dastardly "underwater mountain" technology!!

It hit a big rock OP.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Prakash Karat's cranium keeps expanding into more and more galaxies.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Perfidious China's dastardly "underwater mountain" technology!!

It hit a big rock OP.

now now it could have also hit a whale

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


lollontee posted:

its really weird to see americans complain about excessive surveillance in other places. like, are you blind?

It's worse than you think.

That guy is British.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://mobile.twitter.com/AskAKorean/status/1453755713000443911

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Some Guy TT posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/olivdelalande/status/1453190659590930440

its not the chinese but the perfidious hong konger that is eating all our cow and robbing us of the cow oil needed to make our donuts

lmao why so many East Asian countries

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

hot witch divorcee posted:

i remember seeing stuff like this too, and at the time thinking it was super smart stuff or whatever, but even where it is accurate, the framing is all wrong. liberals can only conceive of infrastructure as a giant bag to be held, and not being able to make money on it at point of use exclusively is just a huge disaster, because the worst thing you can possibly do is make number sad WHY DID YOU MAKE NUMBER SAD TRAINS

in actuality, especially with a communist party in charge, the benefits this kind of rail network brings to the economy and quality of life are near-immeasurable, and well worth the cost to build even if that has some pretty severe sticker shock and takes a large amount of national scale resources. the rail is likely no small part of why, as fart simpson mentioned, median incomes tripled since the rail was constructed

Societies don't even need to be communist for this, although obviously it helps.
Even in the USA, plenty of things are done that never directly recoup costs at point of use - the decision to insist on direct profitability is a political one, to effectively forbid certain types of development that certain people don't want, but would rather not argue against directly.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

stephenthinkpad posted:

It was reasonable to cast doubt on it because previously attempts of "forced technology transfer" to upgrade the Chinese domestic automobile industrial has not worked out so well. The Chinese gas-powered cars had not been competitive out side of the country, even with many 50-50 share partnership of many major Germany and Japanese brands.

The car deals didn't take off massively, but they achieved their primary purpose.
Consider that the biggest ones were worked out in cooperation with dongfeng, which does military work, etc. While China never became a major competitive car exporter, it got adequate domestic production of functional vehicles.

Additionally, there was serious brain-drain as a result of those programs. It was almost expected that the best Chinese engineers and designers would be lured to Japan by massive wage/QoL increases. Maybe they were allowed to go with the intent of providing industrial espionage, but it often didn't work out that way beyond a "bye lol".

A Jupiter
Apr 25, 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktlyIPCqi0

A travelog of a train nerd touring China by rail in 1986.

He takes some truly amazing shots of developing China, at a time when it was extremely closed to foreigners. Like did you know there was a tourist-only currency.





Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

Maximo Roboto posted:

lmao why so many East Asian countries

hot pot and BBQ

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Antonymous posted:

hot pot and BBQ
they are truly a more advanced culture

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