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Yoked posted:Speaking of Cleave: It's another Final Fortune for Sundial decks. Can't put it on a stick though.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:56
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Yoked posted:Speaking of Cleave: This person seems to have forgotten that alrunds is cheaper and less of a liability then this
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Oct 29, 2021 13:04
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I mean i guess theres niche cases where you can win the game next turn that you wouldnt be able to win if your opponent gets a move but you have to set that up and alrunds has its own setup in it text box
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Oct 29, 2021 13:05
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Magic Underwear posted:I'm trying to think, is there anything brackets can do that isn't already done by kicker/split? As the only mechanics that exist are those and creature abilities, no.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:10
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mandatory lesbian posted:This person seems to have forgotten that alrunds is cheaper and less of a liability then this Looks like Sperling was correct after all! mandatory lesbian posted:I mean i guess theres niche cases where you can win the game next turn that you wouldnt be able to win if your opponent gets a move but you have to set that up and alrunds has its own setup in it text box There's been a lot of times that being able to activate the 7/7 land and take a another turn is enough to be lethal, and only costing 3 helps a lot in that situation. It's possible that this sees play as a 5th+ copy of Alrund's, and it'd be absolutely hilarious (though unlikely) that if Alrund's gets banned this just takes its slot.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:13
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Well, the safest bet in the entire world is that there will be a Murder equivalent with Cleave. The non-cleave version will have targeting restrictions, and the Cleaved version won’t.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:13
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Printing Final Fortune and Stifle in the same set seems a little loose to me.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:16
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Lone Goat posted:Looks like Sperling was correct after all! Idk it just seems so not worth it lol, but tbf i dont think alrunds is getting banned. If it does then yeah sure go for this
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Oct 29, 2021 13:20
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Also tbh i have no clue what the sperling comment is about, i dont pay attention to him so i only know him as the guy who whined about a streamer in his baby announcement post
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Oct 29, 2021 13:22
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mandatory lesbian posted:Also tbh i have no clue what the sperling comment is about, i dont pay attention to him so i only know him as the guy who whined about a streamer in his baby announcement post the streamer he whined about is the one doing the card reveal
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Oct 29, 2021 13:24
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Magic Underwear posted:That card [sucks]. Frankly I don't like cleave as a concept at all, it's too transparently kicker. I assume they'll at least have some where cleave is an alternate cost that distinguishes it from the base cost. But then that's pretty similar to split cards but more boring. I don't think it's bad at all. Especially in a world with Lier decks running around.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:27
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Kild posted:the streamer he whined about is the one doing the card reveal Oh lmao
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Oct 29, 2021 13:29
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Yoked posted:Speaking of Cleave: If you make a copy of a spell cast with cleave, is the copy cleaved?
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Oct 29, 2021 13:37
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Devor posted:If you make a copy of a spell cast with cleave, is the copy cleaved? no, copies of objects have the printed characteristics of the object. cleave only removes text if you paid the cleave cost for the spell, which if you copied it, you didn't
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Oct 29, 2021 13:41
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-I'm stupid.- Future Sighting 2U Sorcery Choose target player and up to four target cards in their graveyard. That player shuffles those cards into their library. Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.  Soulcodeplate 1U Artifact - Uncommon ~ ETBs with three Omen counters. 1U, Tap: Look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard. Whenever a creature card is put into your graveyard, remove one Omen counter from ~. Transform if there are no Omen counters on it. [Back Side] Codebound Geist Creature - Spirit Flying Can only block creatures with flying. 3U: Draw two cards, discard a card. 3/2 YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 13:42
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:no, copies of objects have the printed characteristics of the object. cleave only removes text if you paid the cleave cost for the spell, which if you copied it, you didn't I'm about 90% certain this is incorrect. Copying a kicked spell gives you a copy with the kick clause, I don't see why this would be different.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:47
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Lone Goat posted:I'm about 90% certain this is incorrect. you're right about kicker, so it's possible cleave doesn't work this way. i was thinking about it in terms of layers, where copy effects are upstream of text-changing effects, but that's continuous effects only. so who knows. e: yeah, you're right. "A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs." i let my l2 lapse years ago, so apparently i've forgotten it all
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Oct 29, 2021 14:02
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Really don't think that cleave Final Fortune is going to be a problem in standard, but all the same I wish they'd just stop loving printing extra turn cards. I know set design goes well into the future so even if WotC did decide to storm scale "take an extra turn" it would be a year at least before we saw our last one.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:11
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I've never felt playing the turns deck that i wanted a 5th or 6th Alrund's Epiphany.... Once you start to go off, you can typically find it very easily.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:13
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TipTow posted:Really don't think that cleave Final Fortune is going to be a problem in standard, but all the same I wish they'd just stop loving printing extra turn cards. Time Warp with set mechanic is the new Shock with set mechanic. What was the last Shock with set mechanic anyway? Wild Slash? I'm defining a Shock as R for 2 damage that can go face.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:16
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TipTow posted:Really don't think that cleave Final Fortune is going to be a problem in standard, but all the same I wish they'd just stop loving printing extra turn cards. Same
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Oct 29, 2021 14:19
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Lone Goat posted:Time Warp with set mechanic is the new Shock with set mechanic. I think so. There's actually not that many different shocks https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid...%7BR%7D+cmc%3D1
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Oct 29, 2021 14:23
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I think I read once that their internal customer satisfaction stuff shows that Time Walks are by far the most popular card in every set they do them among the broader MTG community. It's like, Angels, Dragons, and Extra Turns.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:26
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Devor posted:If you make a copy of a spell cast with cleave, is the copy cleaved? Yes. quote:707.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:28
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Oct 29, 2021 14:31
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Lone Goat posted:Time Warp with set mechanic is the new Shock with set mechanic. You're playing with pedantic fire here. (Spikefield Hazard? Surely there was one since Skewer the Critics?)
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Oct 29, 2021 14:36
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Lone Goat posted:Time Warp with set mechanic is the new Shock with set mechanic. I mean theres also always Lightning Bolts with set mechanic drawback possible (like last set)
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Oct 29, 2021 14:36
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HootTheOwl posted:Yes. It seems like you could make an argument for it being different. With Kicker, each card has an ability that says "If ~ was kicked". With Cleave, it's telling you to remove card text, it's not explicitly an ability that gets checked. The ability that removes the card text in brackets is also explicitly tied to *casting* it with cleave, rather than asking if its cleave cost was paid. So if the copied spell forgets that the text in brackets was removed, I'm not sure if there's a rule that would cause the copy to look again to see if the text should be removed.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:38
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Pablo Nergigante posted:I think so. There's actually not that many different shocks "The reprinting of Lightning Bolt in M10 and M11 sent literal 'Shock-waves' through a transitional era of Magic design, not only shifting the meta but shifting our expectations of what one colored mana should be allowed to do. The fallout of the Modern Bolt Era not only affected the design of cards in its immediate surroundings, but also started MTG development down a path it still reckons with to this day. "My name is _boltinhistoric420_ and this the TED Radio Hour."
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Oct 29, 2021 14:38
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Devor posted:It seems like you could make an argument for it being different. With Kicker, each card has an ability that says "If ~ was kicked". If you cast it with cleave, the text box becomes whatever the text box is without the brackets. Those brackets aren't "still there" because they're printed on the card; you act like they don't exist. So you are copying the spell with the brackets removed, because that is what is on the stack. edit- I assume, of course, there's no official rules out yet I don't think.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:43
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Devor posted:It seems like you could make an argument for it being different. With Kicker, each card has an ability that says "If ~ was kicked". Under this line of thinking if cleave removes the text from the spell and isn't copied, then what is being copied wouldn't have the bracketed text so the copy would still be, effectively, cleaved.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:43
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Lone Goat posted:Time Warp with set mechanic is the new Shock with set mechanic. Play with Fire is Shock+, and if you squint a bit then the bonus when you go face has mechanical connections to the vampire mechanics in that set.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:48
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Time warp effects are fine when they are A) sorcery speed and B) don’t directly effect the board state. And even then you could probably still balance them with dialing the mana value up.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:53
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whydirt posted:Time warp effects are fine when they are A) sorcery speed and B) don’t directly effect the board state. Don't forget C) can't be nestled safely away from duress/check for traps/etc.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:59
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Welp, looks like I'm stuck at Diamond rank in Standard matches for this period of games. Time to see how the random decks I've gained just playing free games and messing around fare. EDIT: loving around with building a deck aimed at making opponents discard/mill as often as possible and/or make them keep casting creature spells repeatedly (and limiting to one color because it seems like Blue has the most of these kinds of cards). I know I'm an amateur at this but I'm bored. Does Sideboard come into play at all during standard matches or is that a specific type of game consideration? 
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Oct 29, 2021 15:08
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mandatory lesbian posted:"X ability could be kicker or split cards" is a tired complaint, abilities are more then gameplay, flavor counts too yeah cleave seems like a combination of boring, clunky, and completely flavorless mandatory lesbian posted:This person seems to have forgotten that alrunds is cheaper and less of a liability then this its a harder to cast alrunds that doesnt make birds. in exchange you get a basically worthless alternate mode. its garbo
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Oct 29, 2021 15:08
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babypolis posted:yeah cleave seems like a combination of boring, clunky, and completely flavorless Yeah it has a bad name and feels out of place for Innistrad. Like if they called it REDACT and had it be a Dimir card, or on Kaladesh, or the setting that Conspiracy is on, it'd be a much better fit.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:14
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Does Sideboard come into play at all during standard matches or is that a specific type of game consideration? For best of 1? Cards that care about "outside the game" (lesson/learn, Wish, Legion Angel, etc) pull cards from your sideboard but otherwise no.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:16
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Has there ever been a red aggro deck that wanted a time warp effect like that to just give themselves an extra combat phase/opportunity to cast burn to finish off opponents or is that just way too niche?
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Oct 29, 2021 15:29
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Mike N Eich posted:Has there ever been a red aggro deck that wanted a time warp effect like that to just give themselves an extra combat phase/opportunity to cast burn to finish off opponents or is that just way too niche? I only know of combo decks that back in the day tried to shoehorn it in, was a terrible idea obv
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Oct 29, 2021 15:32
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