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RareAcumen posted:Once the game is out and fully finished, I hope we get an Margaret Hamilton-style picture of Toby- or anyone who has no problems being photographed- standing next to all the books that inspired the game. I used to be so into touhou that I was an admin at shrinemaiden in its prime, but in doing so I frequently got to see the worst, most toxic, most repulsive parts of the fandom that I bounced off it hard when I stepped down. I feel like I never hear anything about touhou anymore really. Sometimes I pop in there once a year or so, found out that the head admin passed away (and I found out about it way after the fact as we hadn't kept in touch), and even looking at the place bums me out now. That's neither here nor there, but it's just strange to hear about that series in the wild anymore. Then again I was so burnt out that I forgot most of the characters at this point. Regardless I feel like Toby really has taken up the mantle of indie sweetheart as far as general appeal goes. Undertale is really accessible and that also helped give it a very broad appeal. Deltarune is taking Undertale's baton and sprinting with it, because despite it being an incomplete game, the hype for chapter 2 was massive and I cannot imagine how big it's gonna be when the rest of the game is out.
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Oct 30, 2021 05:16
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ikanreed posted:Asgore makes everyone else depressed, but he's remarkably upbeat for how lovely his life is. Asgore's got huge 'jovial front for being badly depressed' vibes, especially with how poorly he's taking care of himself and desperate for positive attention. We've gotten some very vague background on him, but I really do get an overall impression that Asgore hosed up bad, doing something that no one particularly wants to talk or think about, and as a result his remaining kid is pretty much the only person who may voluntarily interact with him. I mean, giving away all his flowers instead of even trying to sell them does give strong vibes of someone who is utterly desperate to get people to like him again. Interesting contrast from his Undertale incarnation, who is a loved public figure and we're made well aware of what he's done and intends to do when we inevitably encounter him.
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Oct 30, 2021 05:24
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Asgore's got huge 'jovial front for being badly depressed' vibes, especially with how poorly he's taking care of himself and desperate for positive attention. It makes me wonder just how much of Undertale's story (or at least lore thereof) carries over into Deltarune. Part of me is wondering if Toby's not pulling a Mother 3 twist where the world ended/changed so massively and only one remaining person has any knowledge that this had happened while everyone else is blissfully unaware, and people just don't remember what had happened aside from possibly maybe Toriel and Asgore, thus their strained relationship. And maybe Asgore is living in shame of what he did in the Underground? Like yeah, Asgore is almost universally adored in Undertale but he also, however reluctantly, still killed six fallen children in an effort to break the barrier. I dunno, I'm just kinda rambling but it makes me wonder.
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Oct 30, 2021 05:32
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Framboise posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtP7PnyuSw4 That was a good video, thanks for posting it. And while I don't know how true it might be, I do love the idea that the torn up landscape leading up too Noelle and the terrified darkners being really ambiguous about what and more importantly who they are afraid of is yet another misdirect. The obvious answer is that they are referring too Queen, but in actuality they may be referring too Noelle, that after falling into the dark world she got scared, blacked out and started ripping the place apart until you arrived. I just think it's a fun idea that while in the dark world sweet, timid Noelle, without Kris and Susie there to turn the bad kind of scary into the fun kind of scary, doesn't act like "A deer in the headlights" but a terrifying and unstoppable force of nature.
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Oct 30, 2021 06:16
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Pulsarcat posted:I just think it's a fun idea that while in the dark world sweet, timid Noelle, without Kris and Susie there to turn the bad kind of scary into the fun kind of scary, doesn't act like "A deer in the headlights" but a terrifying and unstoppable force of nature.  Also, not gonna lie, I was really expecting the story for chapter 2 to go in a different direction. When the rebel robots accused the group of working with the queen and the queen tricked the party into agreeing to the terms and conditions which included using their image for whatever she wanted, I was expecting some kind of doppelganger kind of situation to happen, that at some point someone had been replaced without the player or characters realizing it.
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Oct 30, 2021 06:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Asgore's got huge 'jovial front for being badly depressed' vibes, especially with how poorly he's taking care of himself and desperate for positive attention. I may be spitballing here but I think December's disappearance dovetails into the incident that lost Asgore his job, his marriage and his self respect. I suspect whatever happened to her happened on his watch and he was charged with handling the situation but failed badly. How and why this occurred is up in the air but I feel like the entire community must've felt like it was his fault one of their members died/went missing. I feel like it had to be something massive for everyone to turn their backs on him save Rudy who probably appreciated the effort he put in to find her. What I really want to know is the context. What happened to her and if Asgore was involved how the hell did he bungle it so bad?
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Oct 30, 2021 06:30
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FirstAidKite posted:Also, not gonna lie, I was really expecting the story for chapter 2 to go in a different direction. When the rebel robots accused the group of working with the queen and the queen tricked the party into agreeing to the terms and conditions which included using their image for whatever she wanted, I was expecting some kind of doppelganger kind of situation to happen, that at some point someone had been replaced without the player or characters realizing it. Aww man, I had forgotten Queen did that, I would have loved if she used the characters images in some sort of stupid scheme, like making knock-off brand heroes. Have the second too last fight be an epic battle against "Krass", "Snoozy" and "Y'all say!"
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Oct 30, 2021 06:32
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Pulsarcat posted:Aww man, I had forgotten Queen did that, I would have loved if she used the characters images in some sort of stupid scheme, like making knock-off brand heroes. Implying there'd be three of them, rather than just Krass and Snoozy.
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Oct 30, 2021 06:39
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Asgore's got huge 'jovial front for being badly depressed' vibes, especially with how poorly he's taking care of himself and desperate for positive attention. Alphys has given indication she hangs out with Asgore on occasion and has at least a bit of a crush on him (which is consistent with UT canon despite the difference in circumstances). Granted, Alphys' UT incarnation was herself familiar with self-loathing and ostracization. We also see flowers indicating he visits Rudy and Undyne and they aren't embarrassed to be seen with him. The Mad Dummy also has a bit of dialogue suggesting they have a crush on him, though it's arguable how much they know about his circumstances. I dunno if I really think the town has a low opinion of Asgore; people at least don't seem to speak ill of him (even Toriel, despite her obvious antipathy). He's just not a town leader in any way, and seems to be dealing poorly with his change in circumstances. Which makes sense, as we know UT's Asgore was a relatively simple guy who highly valued his duty to his community, and his family's love, above all else --enough to motivate him to kill a bunch of humans, despite being incredibly gentle by nature. He lost a lot, but he could still rely on his duty as the monster's king, as well as his desire to do right by Asriel and Chara's memory. DT's Asgore has lost his place in the community, is despised by Toriel, only infrequently sees Kris, and can't see Asriel because he's at college. Objectively he's experienced less despair, but he's also lost all his grounding. He doesn't have any real path forward, and (due to that aforementioned simple nature) he's not adaptable enough to change his priorities to accommodate his new circumstances. Thus, the slovenly, struggling Asgore swimming in denial. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 06:43
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Implying there'd be three of them, rather than just Krass and Snoozy. There'd be three of them, but Queen would never acknowledge the existence of Y'all Say!" or even remember having him made.
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Oct 30, 2021 06:53
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Asgore probably accidentally killed December or something
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Oct 30, 2021 07:02
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Pulsarcat posted:That was a good video, thanks for posting it. That's an interesting theory and it would make a parallel to how Susie is more obviously on the rampage in the early parts of Chapter 1 before Lancer and later later Kris and Ralsei get her to chill out. Though then again, Noelle is confused by and unfamiliar with the whole fighting mechanics, and we see blast holes, not ice magic. Classy Hydra posted:DT's Asgore has lost his place in the community, is despised by Toriel, only infrequently sees Kris, and can't see Asriel because he's at college. Objectively he's experienced less despair, but he's also lost all his grounding. He doesn't have any real path forward, and (due to that aforementioned simple nature) he's not adaptable enough to change his priorities to accommodate his new circumstances. Thus, the slovenly, struggling Asgore swimming in denial. That's true, he's called The Most Divorced for a reason, because you see that a lot in real life; men who took their position in life for granted, especially their family, and struggle when they lose that because it's been so long since they had to do everything for themselves. It does seem like even if people don't speak poorly of him, no one really seems sure how to help- doesn't help there's usually a whole 'he's a man and a man stands on his own' attitude that makes it incredibly difficult for people to offer or accept help in those kind of circumstances. It goes pretty well with the whole small-town-blues theme of the Light World sections. Actually that also gives Chapter 2 some interesting subtext; while the closet Dark World was basically getting lost in the wilderness and finding a magical castle, the computer room instead is specifically patterned after a big city, with a bunch of small town kids who've never been to such a place unsupervised are left to their own devices to explore and discover its wonders and dangers. (Let alone with Spamton's whole dealio as a predatory, unhinged salesman with vibes of a drug dealer high on his own supply) Though on thought, I meant more that people don't seem to want to speak poorly of Asgore, it seems like many don't want to talk about him at all, or to him. It just gives overall vibes of someone who had a sterling record at keeping the peace and helping people until one really big gently caress up that everyone's all too familiar with to talk about. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 07:02
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Dunno how I found them, but these guys did a playthrough of chapter 2 that is mostly laughter and I'm recommending it because group playthroughs of the game are exactly what I want. And also in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny1jJKh0QAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYu1MudgOpY
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Oct 30, 2021 07:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That's an interesting theory and it would make a parallel to how Susie is more obviously on the rampage in the early parts of Chapter 1 before Lancer and later later Kris and Ralsei get her to chill out. Though then again, Noelle is confused by and unfamiliar with the whole fighting mechanics, and we see blast holes, not ice magic. True enough, those reasons are why I'm not entirely sure it could be true, buuuuuuutttttt..... There are a a couple of interesting things to think about. Spoilers for both routes One is that Noelle seems to almost black out, or go into a trance when pushed too the edge emotionally. Like in the alternate route she seems only vaguely aware of her own actions, so it may be possible that she just surpressed what happened before the fun gang arrived. And the other thing, just where did the blast holes come from? Queen is trying to capture Noelle not hurt her, we see her snag Noelle using one of her cages, so she wouldn't blast her. And she probably wouldn't blast the darkners either, she would just uses her wires too turn them into peons like she does right after you arrive. So why is the place all torn up? One answer is that there was some sort of fight, like maybe Noelle actually resisted and forced Queen too fight back. There's something Queen says before her boss fight "With Noelle in my possession it's only a matter of time before her will turns and she unleashes her power blanketing the world in..." then she's cut off, it's possible she was going to say darkness, as in her power too open up a fountain. But it's also possible she was going to say ice, as in blanket the world in ice. Which may suggest she experinced Noelle's ice powers first hand and so she not only knows that Noelle has ice powers, but that they are immensely powerful. Of course there are about as many holes in this idea as there are in the landscape, but I think it's just plausible enough. It's also fun as hell picturing Noelle responding to threats, not by running and cowering, but by bringing down an ice age. Pulsarcat fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 08:21
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hey all! seen a lot of speculation on the last few pages. just wanted to clear the air, since it wasn't supposed to be a mystery at all! I'm actually the Knight. hiya!
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Oct 30, 2021 08:29
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Bogart posted:hey all! seen a lot of speculation on the last few pages. just wanted to clear the air, since it wasn't supposed to be a mystery at all! I'm actually the Knight. hiya! That makes sense, after all one of the ways to beat the King is by forcing him to go too bed. Pulsarcat fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 08:34
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Could've been worse, could've been loving Teddie.Pulsarcat posted:
Isn't that due to the thorn ring?
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Oct 30, 2021 08:45
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Brandfarlig posted:Isn't that due to the thorn ring? No, it starts After she freezes the shop keeper too get the freeze ring, she convinces herself that they gave the ring to her. And after she automatically solves the mouse puzzle with the falling platforms but before you get the thorn ring she thinks too herself how she can't remember how she got the ring or how she's solving puzzles. So she's already starting to block things out before you get the thorn ring.
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Oct 30, 2021 08:54
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Pulsarcat posted:No, it starts After she freezes the shop keeper too get the freeze ring, she convinces herself that they gave the ring to her. Dear loving God we're forcing her to disassociate.
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Oct 30, 2021 09:11
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Pulsarcat posted:There are a a couple of interesting things to think about. 
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Oct 30, 2021 09:16
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Queen does spend most of her appearances being irresponsible with explosions, and the torn-up areas are right on the fringes of the city already full of trash that she might not care about. Mind you, Undertale and Deltarune throw so much weirdness at you fairly rapid fire it's easy to lose track of how much of it is meant to mean anything and how much is just weird and whimsical to keep you guessing what the gently caress you're going to run into next.
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Oct 30, 2021 09:25
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Personally, I think it’s most likely Asgore simply failed to find December, a situation that led to him being fired by the mayor in what would’ve seemed a scandal (especially as even Rudy implies he doesn’t hold anything against Asgore despite what Asgore might believe) and also was perhaps the last straw in his marriage with Toriel. I really don’t think it’s going to be more nefarious than that because Classy Hydra posted:DT's Asgore has lost his place in the community, is despised by Toriel, only infrequently sees Kris, and can't see Asriel because he's at college. Objectively he's experienced less despair, but he's also lost all his grounding. He doesn't have any real path forward, and (due to that aforementioned simple nature) he's not adaptable enough to change his priorities to accommodate his new circumstances. Thus, the slovenly, struggling Asgore swimming in denial. Emphasis mine—this insight blew me away, as this is precisely the source of the uncanny vibe of Hometown, and it holds true for basically all of the town residents from our perspective as Undertale players. They’re all freed of whatever burdens came before; Undyne has both eyes, Alphys is Toriel’s colleague and a respected teacher instead of hiding in her lab, the amalgamates are at rest, etc. Indeed, from their perspective, nothing is wrong. They’ve all led what sounds like a wonderfully peaceful JRPG lifestyle in their JRPG hometown, and Sans and Onion are the only characters who have even implied they have knowledge of prior events. That’s probably the clue that this is a plot thing and not just very good writing. Because it works just on the level of putting you in Kris’ shoes—all the heroes of your childhood are just crummy adults with crummy problems after all, and the last hero you had left (and the same one we all really care about too!) is off at crummy college. Brilliant poo poo. Yet Sans is standing in front of a repainted Grillby’s and Onion is hearing foreshadowing in the ocean. I hope it’ll be a plot thing anyway. This could all still be meta stuff designed for people like me to rot our brains with while the main plot never touches why Hometown is the way it is, and I think a bunch of people ITT would prefer it like that. But I would prefer a Big Grand Story that recontextualizes Undertale in some kind of spectacular postmodern gesture, because I have terrible taste.
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Oct 30, 2021 09:48
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Free of the truly horrendous existential burdens but mundane everyday ones can be pretty rough none the less. For example depression, social isolation the death of a parent etc. Poor Mettaton in this world is a full on hermit who refuses to show his face. There's something heartbreaking about the hammy idol from the previous game being too ashamed to go out in public and interact with people. Finding the abandoned body they painted makes it sting even more.
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Oct 30, 2021 11:20
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Bogart posted:hey all! seen a lot of speculation on the last few pages. just wanted to clear the air, since it wasn't supposed to be a mystery at all! I'm actually the Knight. hiya! B... Batman?
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Oct 30, 2021 12:02
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i always read deltarune asgore as less of a "desperate for anyone to like him so badly that he gives things away" and more of someone who simply had no idea how business actually works and just gives poo poo away though if you really want a good allegory for asgore, look no further than his shop/home: a warm and inviting facade hiding an absolute unkempt disaster in the back most people also seem to generally perceive him neutral at worst. i could be misremembering but nobody really seems unhappy with him other than toriel one thing i am curious to see is if deltarune will go harder on the 'meta' elements of the game/universe. not just gaster, but things like potential timeline screwery with later chapters having an effect on earlier ones, things only discoverable with datamining, and other odds and ends. there's enough there already to show some intent but it remains to be seen just how far it might go the inclusion of "chapter #" images beyond the expected 1 through 7 -- chapter 8, chapter 9, and especially chapter 0 -- really makes me curious. 8 and 9 make sense if you're just making things just in case, but there's no real reason why you'd have one for chapter zero of course, it might just be one of a few things just there to fool dataminers
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Oct 30, 2021 12:10
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RareAcumen posted:Once the game is out and fully finished, I hope we get an Margaret Hamilton-style picture of Toby- or anyone who has no problems being photographed- standing next to all the books that inspired the game. Generally public discussion swaps subjects a lot with how rapid fire media comes out. The dedicated discussion tends to stay in their own circles after the subject leaves public consciousness. Framboise posted:It makes me wonder just how much of Undertale's story (or at least lore thereof) carries over into Deltarune. Part of me is wondering if Toby's not pulling a Mother 3 twist where the world ended/changed so massively and only one remaining person has any knowledge that this had happened while everyone else is blissfully unaware, and people just don't remember what had happened aside from possibly maybe Toriel and Asgore, thus their strained relationship. And maybe Asgore is living in shame of what he did in the Underground? Like yeah, Asgore is almost universally adored in Undertale but he also, however reluctantly, still killed six fallen children in an effort to break the barrier. I think part of the reason why he wanted Undertale to be played first is so that certain moments in Deltarune have more impact, not necessarily because the 2 universes are directly connected. As it was said earlier, the townspeople in Hometown are kind of unfulfilled. Even though in Undertale the monsters were trapped in the Underground, a lot of them were in a better place personally which just isn't there in Hometown. Mettaton is one of the more blatant examples, having his ideal body in Undertale, where he never got anything of the such in Deltarune and is just "a little nobody." Toby also said on the Anniversary stream that he wanted the Hometown walkaround to feel unsettling. But a player who plays Deltarune first will be missing the Undertale context and won't know how things could actually be better for these people. On a similar note, the Spamton NEO fight starts off with your Soul turning Yellow all by itself. To an entirely new player, it's basically kind of a random power up you get out of the blue for this one fight. To someone who knows about Undertale, you're hit with the fact that your Soul can change modes completely on its own in the Deltarune universe, and that different Soul modes from Undertale made a surprise return. Not only that, the Yellow Soul is stronger than it was in Undertale, being able to charge up shots and just being able to fire normal shots much faster. Even your Soul in general is a bit stronger in battle with the added grazing mechanic. Interestingly enough Snowgrave doesn't even bother giving the Yellow Soul the tutorial introduction. You're just thrown into the fight with the mechanics already there, which pretty much indicates the Snowgrave route was not only not supposed to be accidentally stumbled upon, but that it's pretty much meant for a second playthrough. Along with the mega condensed plot beats indicating that as well being ticked off in a rather unsatisfying manner. Pulsarcat posted:That was a good video, thanks for posting it. That's a pretty interesting theory that I never considered until that was pointed out, so that's a good find. There's a bunch of Plugboys strewn about there, so Noelle might not have actually killed anyone, just freed a bunch of Werewires destructively, which might explain the lack of frozen corpses. After all, Susie did the same thing, freeing Werewires with Rude Buster in Noelle's room. It also might line up with the fact that the Plugboys in that beginning segment are fearful, but later ones and the Werewires you can talk to treat the concept of being turned into a Werewire with a kind of annoyance or minor "I hope this doesn't happen to me" instead of outright fear and asking to be saved, or that some of the Werewires don't mind being in that form. Pulsarcat posted:Aww man, I had forgotten Queen did that, I would have loved if she used the characters images in some sort of stupid scheme, like making knock-off brand heroes. If you count the rollercoasters, she did use our party's likeness there. 
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Oct 30, 2021 12:37
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rko posted:
I'm still pretty sure that the characters of DR are remixes of UT characters, not the same characters in a sequel, or transplanted into a fantasy realm or whatever. It's all a what-if situation, what if the monsters were never forced into the underground. Sans and Onion are special cases for different reasons. Sans is already an outsider- remember, he wasn't native to UT's world either, he and Papyrus and [] just showed up one day. Sans being meta doesn't really have any particular implications for any other characters, that's just how he is. Onion lives in the ocean. They're just sensitive to the vibrations of all the poo poo that lies beneath the surface.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:43
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Araxxor posted:That's a pretty interesting theory that I never considered until that was pointed out, so that's a good find. There's a bunch of Plugboys strewn about there, so Noelle might not have actually killed anyone, just freed a bunch of Werewires destructively, which might explain the lack of frozen corpses. After all, Susie did the same thing, freeing Werewires with Rude Buster in Noelle's room. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it either until it was brought up in the video Framboise posted. Another explanation for the lack of corpses is that Noelle never actually attacked them directly, the reason they are all terrified is that they just witnessed this timid little deer girl suddenly freak out and unleash apocalyptic tier ice magic on Queen and they're all basically backed into a corner since they can't go out the way you came in. This all leads to another interesting idea. The two main theories about what happened to Noelles' sister Dess is that she was lost in the Dark World or lost in a blizzard. Both of these can be true. It's at least plausible that the terrified plugboys and damaged landscape are a result of a fight between Noelle and Queen, which would mean that depspite what Rudy says, Noelles' "Fight or Flight" response while in the Dark world is very much "Fight!" And as Flopsy says Flopsy posted:Dear loving God we're forcing her to disassociate. This is Noelles' response to trauma, to disassociate and then recontextualize the event to make it more acceptable, or to try and blank it out. So, maybe Dess, Noelle and Kris fell into the Dark world together and in a moment of blind panic Noelle unleashed her ice magic on Dess, and then when she returned to the Light world she told everyone that Dess was lost in a blizzard. I mean, in the Snowgrave route when she freezes Berdly she says she couldn't see what happened because of all the snow, this is very obviously not true, but she truely believes it Hell this would also explain why Asgore lost his job, not realizing where Dess really was he mounted a futile search and rescue, and was fired by mayor Carol for being unable to find her. And this ends up damaging both families. And this is all a stretch of course, but I like this idea because it would be another parallel to Undertale. Most of the events of the story are caused by the death of Asriel, but the only ones who know this are Toriel, Asgore and Flowey. And the true goal of he pacifist route, unbeknownst too the player, isn't to escape the underworld but too "save" Asriel which allows monsters to heal and finally move on. The same thing could be happening here. Most of what hurt both the Dreemur and Holiday families is the disappearance of Dess and thanks to Noelles' trauma the only one who knows this is Kris and Ralsei. And the true goal of the pacifist route, unbeknownst too the player, isn't too shut down the fountains but to "save" Dess, which would hopefully allow the two families to heal and finally move on. quote:If you count the rollercoasters, she did use our party's likeness there. The cars names are now officially named "Krass" "Snoozy" and "Y'all Say!" this is cannon, I declared it so and none of you have the determination to stop me! Pulsarcat fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 18:14
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I don't know why, but I assumed that Dess was maybe lost in a snowstorm and the body was never found. I remember one of the other NPCs saying that Noelle sometimes walks into the store, opens the fridge and just stands there. At first I thought it was just a reindeer joke but it could also be reliving a traumatic feeling.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:26
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I'm just waiting for the game to call Noelle's memory condition a whiteout.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:28
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Setting aside the “Noelle secretly rampaged and killed her own sister” idea as being a) not outside the realm of possibility given how Toby has written siblings before but b) really dark for a character who already has a distant mom and dying dad,Pulsarcat posted:The same thing could be happening here. These stakes are too low. I do imagine we’ll solve this mystery in the course of the Pacifist Route, but I don’t think Kris is going to all of this trouble just to save their neighbor. I don’t think it even started that way—if it had, this would’ve been chapter 1, rather than the intro we got. Dess will come back in the plot, but the “true goal” is going to be something more impactful. Pretty sure these kids will have to save the world. E: they’d rko fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 18:31
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For some reason it never clicked for me that Hometown included all the major Undertale NPCs, with the sole exception of Papyrus. Most of them are living mundane, unfulfilled lives, while Asriel is off for college, and Sans is doing Sans things, but all but he are addressed. I’m not sure what this means, but I guess it means something. The obvious answer is that Papyrus is incapable of experiencing the sort of ennui that suffuses Hometown, and he’d mess up the tone of the walking tour if he were to appear on day one, but I still cling to the idea that the skeleton friends are all actually Darkners, and Papyrus is the only one not able to mess with time and space.
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Oct 30, 2021 18:53
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where is tsundereplane
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Oct 30, 2021 18:57
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How come nobody ever brings up that Rudy is Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer e: kris uses they/them pronouns how are you fuckers not getting this Bogart fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 19:05
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rko posted:Setting aside the “Noelle secretly rampaged and killed her own sister” idea as being a) not outside the realm of possibility given how Toby has written siblings before but b) really dark for a character who already has a distant mom and dying dad, She didn't necessarily kill her, she could have trapped her in the Dark World, which is why Kris is going into it. quote:These stakes are too low. I do imagine we’ll solve this mystery in the course of the Pacifist Route, but I don’t think Kris is going to all of this trouble just to save his neighbor. I don’t think it even started that way—if it had, this would’ve been chapter 1, rather than the intro we got. The goal and the stakes aren't the same thing, the small act of saving Asriel saved all monsters, and it could be the same thing here, saving Dess may end up saving the world. And the game established that Kris, Noelle, Dess and Asriel were all friends and considering how much trauma losing Dess has caused there is nothing low stakes to Kris, the idea that They wouldn't do any of this to "just" save their neighbor doesn't work for me. And this event happening wouldn't be chapter 1, because we, the soul, weren't there for that.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:07
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:
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Oct 30, 2021 19:13
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:For some reason it never clicked for me that Hometown included all the major Undertale NPCs, with the sole exception of Papyrus. Most of them are living mundane, unfulfilled lives, while Asriel is off for college, and Sans is doing Sans things, but all but he are addressed. Papyrus is implied to be there, just not outside.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:14
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Cyberventurer posted:I don't know why, but I assumed that Dess was maybe lost in a snowstorm and the body was never found. I remember one of the other NPCs saying that Noelle sometimes walks into the store, opens the fridge and just stands there. At first I thought it was just a reindeer joke but it could also be reliving a traumatic feeling. This is also the impression I have. There's enough context clues where I think it's reasonable to conclude Noelle has a connection to snow and cold beyond just the Reindeer = Christmas = Snow thing, which interestingly seems to be linked to her trauma without actually triggering it. If I had to guess, I think she links the concept of coldness itself to Dess, and as such feeling it is both sad and comforting for her. This somewhat re-contextualizes SnowGrave for Noelle. The cold is comforting for Noelle, but it also conceals the larger part of her internalized trauma; SnowGrave is at least allegorically a representation of what she deep down, fears (or knows) was her sister's fate; an unmarked frozen grave.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:18
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It seems fairly obvious that Asgore severely hosed up in some fashion, most likely involving Dess, and that's what has led to him being the Most Divorced Man. A lot of people seem to think that he is somehow responsible for what happened to Dess. I've heard car accident theories, mismanaging the case involving her, or even just being punished for failing to save her. But I don't think that really gels that well with Asgore's character, nor how the rest of town treats him either. The characters in DR are remixes of their old selves, but they keep to their core characters. So, what were the main themes of UT Asgore?
I think the same thing is happening here. I don't think Asgore was fired because he got Dess killed, or because he is being punished for failing to save her. I think it's much more likely that he held himself accountable for what happened, and continued to pursue it until he had a mental breakdown. Nobody in town has any real ire for him except for his ex-wife, with most people either not acknowledging him or thinking positively of him. That doesn't really scream 'horrific accident' to me, or even bungling something. I think most of his state of mind is heavily internalized, and that self-loathing is what drove a wedge between him and Toriel. It explains why she seems so frustrated with him but still accepts Kris spending time with him. Thanks for coming to my Torgore talk.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:20
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 07:15 |
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Oxxidation posted:where is tsundereplane At the Hometown airport refusing to fly anyone anywhere because they’re all stupid bakas.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:24
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