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Smeef posted:The rock is some Chinese rear end in a top hat uber-patriot who makes you uncomfortable by questioning your identity and possibly dangling some sort of threat over you like reporting you to authorities. I am guessing, maybe unfairly, that when you say "Chinese uber-patriot" you're thinking of someone who works for the Chinese government abroad. What's your image of an American rear end in a top hat uber-patriot? What do they do for a living, in what capacity are they interacting with these Chinese immigrants, and what authority are they reporting them to?
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Oct 31, 2021 03:40
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Don't Americans living and working abroad constantly get press-ganged into CIA shenanigans also? This seems like pretty par for the course stuff.
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Oct 31, 2021 04:58
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GlassEye-Boy posted:No, we feel like Americans are loving gullible idiots. Don't speak for us you jackass. Wait, why are you speaking for me then if you don't like other people speaking for you? Let me fix this post quote:No, Misconceptions maybe, blatant racism? LoL. 30.5 Days posted:Explain what "rock" and what "hard place" chinese peole are trapped between. I assume the "hard place" is chinese intimidation. What is the chinese government attempting to secure through their intimidation? No brah, you just poo poo posting. This whole line of discussion started with this guardian article remember? https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/26/we-are-so-divided-now-how-china-controls-thought-and-speech-beyond-its-borders no hay camino, is a rather ignorant, ill informed poster who tends to speak in generalities since he doesn't have specifics but in general is a good faith poster. Ill informed but good faith. Then you come in and take his rather vague statement of "rock and hard place", dishonestly interpret it to mean that the Chinese diaspora shouldbe seen as spies so you can now just outright attack as racist or something. Just for lulz I suppose? The truth is that China's use of coercion to silence criticism at home and abroad is a real thing. China, just like every other country in the world, uses a full spectrum of tools in the 'soft power' closet to influence foreign governments abroad. -That includes intimidation of people of Chinese descent who actively campaign against CCP interests abroad. https://globalnews.ca/news/7734158/china-pressure-activists-canada-uyghur-hong-kong-tibet-spying/ https://alliancecanadahk.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/ACHK_InPlainSight.pdf -It also includes misinformation and exaggeration of anti-Chinese racism like texting "If we Chinese Canadians don’t unite, we will end up being like the Jews before 1948, being discriminated against and trampled upon" to ethnic Chinese in order to try and influence ethnic Chinese voters to pressure lawmakers abroad from targetting the CCP. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d=&utm_content= -The use of counter protesters and whenever there are demonstrations against its policies abroad (ie when protests took place over the HK security law last year) https://globalnews.ca/news/5778860/hong-kong-toronto-rally/ -The infiltration of civil society to encourage pro-CCP stances in Chinese communities via organisations such as the United Front Work Department https://www.securitepublique.gc.ca/cnt/trnsprnc/brfng-mtrls/prlmntry-bndrs/20200930/015/index-en.aspx https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/activists-experts-and-policy-makers-speak-out-on-chinese-state-influence-in-canada-1.5407770 -Buying out local politicians whose election often has far less oversight to culitivate relationships should these individuals move up the ladder on to the Provincial or Federal scene https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/08/08/are-canadas-local-politicians-a-target-for-beijings-global-pr-machine.html Our experience here in Canada is closely mirrored by the experience of Australia, another country with a giant Chinese diaspora. Same with the US. We know for a fact that China has used espionage to steal technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_the_United_States. The possibility that those caught and convicted represent a majority of operatives in the US? In my opinion exceedingly low but we have no way of proving it either way. Just because this is true and just because we as democratic countries should loving do something about this doesn't make us racists. China represents the greatest challenge to the post World War 2 order that has been built up since World War 2. No matter how lovely you think the US or the West is with regards to race relations, inequality, or what have you, it is still the place a million times better than living under a CCP dominated world order. We should take the Chinese threat seriously and take measured actions to protect ourselves. Edit: poll plane variant posted:Don't Americans living and working abroad constantly get press-ganged into CIA shenanigans also? This seems like pretty par for the course stuff. Absolutely, except we don't sit here and consternate over anti-white racism when we call out the CIA for all the lovely things it does. All international actors do lovely things to promote their own self-interests. It isn't racist to document, acknowledge, and act on that information. MikeC fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 05:16
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edit: Nevermind this post actually
Starks fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 05:22
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I am worried my friend's girlfriend might be a spy, she came over here to "teach Chinese" in schools and I think she's probably tapping her students for recruitment by the MSS. We went to some sort of "hot pot" restaurant today that was filled with Chinese people (I think from China, they were all speaking Mandarin) and I suspect it may be some sort of listening post or safe house. Just wondering whether I am supposed to report this to MI5, or if I should go directly to the CIA? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 31, 2021 05:50
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https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 https://www.fbi.gov/news/speeches/responding-effectively-to-the-chinese-economic-espionage-threat https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/27/silicon-valley-spies-china-russia-219071/ The problem is this poo poo happens, it's well documented and reported. It's not racist to say that it's a problem, it is racist to say that every Chinese scientist in America is a spy. You can't cover every problem by crying racism though.
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Oct 31, 2021 06:28
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rxcowboy posted:https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 perhaps some people would understand if they could read the difference between "some" and "all"
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Oct 31, 2021 06:42
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rxcowboy posted:It's not racist to say that it's a problem, it is racist to say that every Chinese scientist in America is a spy. Except no one ever says this. Stuff like what you posted isn't negatively impacting ethnic Chinese from getting jobs or positions at the highest levels of society. Barring the very top level of political power, ethnic Chinese as well represented in society as any other visible minority. We generally score highly in perception polls as well frequently topping the charts when it comes to perceptions of being hardworking and honesty in business. I mean nutjobs like Marjorie Greene exist https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7expj/marjorie-taylor-greene-says-shed-deport-chinese-people-if-she-could but nutjobs have always existed.
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Oct 31, 2021 06:44
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rxcowboy posted:https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 do you think the united states bears culpability for the widespread racial profiling that has resulted from their anti China policies made in response to these issues?
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Oct 31, 2021 06:45
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MikeC posted:Except no one ever says this. Stuff like what you posted isn't negatively impacting ethnic Chinese from getting jobs or positions at the highest levels of society. Barring the very top level of political power, ethnic Chinese as well represented in society as any other visible minority. We generally score highly in perception polls as well frequently topping the charts when it comes to perceptions of being hardworking and honesty in business. My comment was more directed to posters here acting like pointing anything out is racist.
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Oct 31, 2021 06:53
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A big flaming stink posted:do you think the united states bears culpability for the widespread racial profiling that has resulted from their anti China policies made in response to these issues? No. The people engaging in espionage and treaon do. Edit: And I view it less of "racial profiling" and more "people crying they got caught and trying to blame racism for getting caught". As MikeC stated, the general perception of Chinese in America is positive in spite of this. rxcowboy fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 06:54
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The point of the intimidation isn't even to generate espionage assets (although they do do that incidentally). The point is to send the message 'Just because you live in a free country do not for a moment think about exercising those freedoms in a way the CCP disapproves of'. It isn't about creating a fifth column overseas, it's about preventing the Chinese diaspora from forming any sort of polity that would indicate to the world and at home that the CCP and the Chinese people are not one and the same.
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Oct 31, 2021 09:20
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rxcowboy posted:No. The people engaging in espionage and treaon do. wtf, you consider THIS the fault of the chinese people?????????? GlassEye-Boy posted:[Url] https://www.diverseeducation.com/faculty-staff/article/15280681/study-finds-racial-profiling-of-scientists-of-chinese-descent[/url]
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Oct 31, 2021 09:33
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Alchenar posted:The point of the intimidation isn't even to generate espionage assets (although they do do that incidentally). The point is to send the message 'Just because you live in a free country do not for a moment think about exercising those freedoms in a way the CCP disapproves of'. It isn't about creating a fifth column overseas, it's about preventing the Chinese diaspora from forming any sort of polity that would indicate to the world and at home that the CCP and the Chinese people are not one and the same. This is purestrain 100% paranoid delusion FYI. No, every single member of the Chinese diaspora is not deathly afraid of the CCP punishing them for "using their freedoms". Whatever the gently caress that means.
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Oct 31, 2021 10:56
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thatfatkid posted:This is purestrain 100% paranoid delusion FYI. No, every single member of the Chinese diaspora is not deathly afraid of the CCP punishing them for "using their freedoms". Whatever the gently caress that means. And this is just a boring post. That's not the claim I made, and you aren't doing anything to engage with the mountain of evidence that the CCP engages in intimidation of overseas citizens. If you actually have something to say then say it.
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Oct 31, 2021 11:25
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thatfatkid posted:This is purestrain 100% paranoid delusion FYI. No, every single member of the Chinese diaspora is not deathly afraid of the CCP punishing them for "using their freedoms". Whatever the gently caress that means. https://globalnews.ca/news/7734158/china-pressure-activists-canada-uyghur-hong-kong-tibet-spying/ Or read the news during the hong kong protests? The Chinese governments intimidation of activists in other countries by various methods was pretty widely talked about. You can't have missed this stuff.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:14
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Oh wow anecdotal evidence without proof being passed off as justification for blatant racism, that ain't convincing dude.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:18
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Guys I think the guy who loves to drop into this thread to minimize and whatabout the Uighur genocide might not be interested in links, material reality or good faith discussion about China
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Oct 31, 2021 12:21
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thatfatkid posted:Oh wow anecdotal evidence without proof being passed off as justification for blatant racism, that ain't convincing dude. Not liking the Chinese governments intimidation of expats is blatant racism? The only way you would reach that conclusion is if you buy into some real old nationalism that every member of a nation is a part of its government.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:36
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Somaen posted:Guys I think the guy who loves to drop into this thread to minimize and whatabout the Uighur genocide might not be interested in links, material reality or good faith discussion about China Correct im not interested in the reality pushed by some in this thread of the Chinese diaspora having dual loyalties and thus not to be trusted. The cognitive dissonance on display with you people accusing me of not being in touch with reality is impressive.
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Oct 31, 2021 12:53
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thatfatkid posted:Correct im not interested in the reality pushed by some in this thread of the Chinese diaspora having dual loyalties and thus not to be trusted. But having loyalty to CCP instead of lovely imperialist states that deserve death is good
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Oct 31, 2021 13:11
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MikeC posted:Just because this is true and just because we as democratic countries should loving do something about this doesn't make us racists. China represents the greatest challenge to the post World War 2 order that has been built up since World War 2. No matter how lovely you think the US or the West is with regards to race relations, inequality, or what have you, it is still the place a million times better than living under a CCP dominated world order. We should take the Chinese threat seriously and take measured actions to protect ourselves. What should those measured actions to curb the Chinese threat and keep the post WW2 order intact entail? Could some loving misinformation be part of the mix? Dante80 fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 13:58
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looks like someone lit up the 'criticizing china' alarm. 
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Oct 31, 2021 15:20
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e: ah you know what no
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Oct 31, 2021 17:19
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I knew very little about China when I entered this thread and now I know even less  What is it about China that completely breaks Western brains, I don't see this kind of thing happening with like India
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Oct 31, 2021 18:00
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I knew very little about China when I entered this thread and now I know even less Would you be willing to elaborate on how you feel brains are being broken?
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Oct 31, 2021 18:02
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I knew very little about China when I entered this thread and now I know even less It's a challenge to the established order so the enemy of my enemy...
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Oct 31, 2021 18:07
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How are u posted:Would you be willing to elaborate on how you feel brains are being broken?
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Oct 31, 2021 18:12
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I knew very little about China when I entered this thread and now I know even less You just said you know very little about China. So how is it possible for you to judge whether Western brains are breaking or not? 386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I'm fully aware that this is bait to drag me into hours of tedious bullshit, so the short of it is many of you are talking about China like a psychotic anthropomorphized contextless monolith sports team villian state. You can talk about the horrible poo poo happening in a place without acting like it's a Marvel movie. Who comprises these "many of you" that you speak of? And please quote the posts where these "many of you" are talking about China as a " like a psychotic anthropomorphized contextless monolith sports team villian state".
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Oct 31, 2021 19:29
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thatfatkid posted:Oh wow anecdotal evidence without proof being passed off as justification for blatant racism, that ain't convincing dude. How many witness accounts and successfully-prosecuted cases would be sufficient as proof?
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Oct 31, 2021 20:12
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Current Existing + 1
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Oct 31, 2021 20:35
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I'm fully aware that this is bait to drag me into hours of tedious bullshit, so the short of it is many of you are talking about China like a psychotic anthropomorphized contextless monolith sports team villian state. You can talk about the horrible poo poo happening in a place without acting like it's a Marvel movie. You mean how people keep describing the USA? 
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Oct 31, 2021 21:20
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rxcowboy posted:https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 the racist part is when you treat this as a new thing that only the Chinese do. You think British, French, German, Argentinian, Israeli, Saudi Arabian, Dutch, South African, Kenyan, Australian, Indian and Japanese (list not exhaustive) scientists are not also used as spying assets? What's next? You're going to react with horror that Chinese diplomats may have secondary agendas, using their embassy location and diplomatic immunity as an advantage? How long has this been going on!?
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Oct 31, 2021 21:47
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To reiterate, does the United States bear culpability for their policies giving rise to racial profiling and racism against not just all Chinese scientists in America, but also Americans of Chinese descent?
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Oct 31, 2021 22:14
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Regarde Aduck posted:the racist part is when you treat this as a new thing that only the Chinese do. You think British, French, German, Argentinian, Israeli, Saudi Arabian, Dutch, South African, Kenyan, Australian, Indian and Japanese (list not exhaustive) scientists are not also used as spying assets? What's next? You're going to react with horror that Chinese diplomats may have secondary agendas, using their embassy location and diplomatic immunity as an advantage? How long has this been going on!? The problem isn't that it is the Chinese doing the spying. The problem is that the spying is being done on behalf of an authoritarian government that is also aiming to replace the US as the principal global power and is steadily gaining the capability to do so. You think that the issue is that it is the skin colour of the people doing the spying that is causing the alarm. It is not. It is the government which they work for which poses the problem. The fact that the CCP uses people who are ethnic Chinese bears no relevance to the issue. Put another way, you are equally as concerned (or you should be) that the Russians are almost certainly waging a sustained cyberwarfare campaign in the West right now to destabilize the politics in the West as posters here are concerned about China doing the same thing. The Russians are white. See? Skin colour has nothing to do with the issue.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:32
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And also, this is the China thread. Talking about Chinese espionage does not imply that no other governments do the same thing.
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Nov 1, 2021 00:01
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Regarde Aduck posted:the racist part is when you treat this as a new thing that only the Chinese do. You think British, French, German, Argentinian, Israeli, Saudi Arabian, Dutch, South African, Kenyan, Australian, Indian and Japanese (list not exhaustive) scientists are not also used as spying assets? What's next? You're going to react with horror that Chinese diplomats may have secondary agendas, using their embassy location and diplomatic immunity as an advantage? How long has this been going on!? People talking about the Chinese government doing this ITT because this is a thread about China. It would be bizarre to talk about, say, Dutch surveillance efforts in Angola ITT.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:27
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:People talking about the Chinese government doing this ITT because this is a thread about China. It would be bizarre to talk about, say, Dutch surveillance efforts in Angola ITT. it would not be bizarre to talk about stuff like this if you’re trying to make the case that discrimination against chinese people, specifically, is justified because of the actions of the chinese government. it would be literally impossible to have a good faith discussion on that without putting it into the context of what other governments are doing
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Nov 1, 2021 01:40
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I knew very little about China when I entered this thread and now I know even less friend, you best believe I have me some opinions about the bjp
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Nov 1, 2021 01:48
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fart simpson posted:it would not be bizarre to talk about stuff like this if you’re trying to make the case that discrimination against chinese people, specifically, is justified because of the actions of the chinese government. it would be literally impossible to have a good faith discussion on that without putting it into the context of what other governments are doing I meant, and should have said, that it would be bizarre to talk about foreign governments conducting surveillance which has no relation to China even tangentially. I assumed, stupidly, this was implied in my post.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:50
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