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Strange Cares posted:I think this is literally the premise of an rpg called iHunt Nah, iHunt is "I'm a broke person trapped in the hell of the late capitalism gig economy and to keep from starving I work for a lovely monster-hunting Uber-alike." In iHunt the Silicon Valley cryptonerds/disruptor type monster slayers would be villains.
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Oct 30, 2021 23:06
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GimpInBlack posted:In iHunt the Silicon Valley cryptonerds/disruptor type monster slayers would be villains. ...Are they not villains in the other post? Or am I just reading that there because there's literally no other thing that a silicon valley person can be but a villain?
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Oct 31, 2021 01:13
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I'm thinking they meant "the villains'", as in the antagonists. So in iHunt the techbro hunters are antagonists because you play their gig-worker subjects, where the original suggestion was to play them as villainous protagonists where the gig-worker subjects are about as important as blood dolls are in any Vampire game.
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Oct 31, 2021 06:11
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Digital Osmosis posted:I'm thinking they meant "the villains'", as in the antagonists. So in iHunt the techbro hunters are antagonists because you play their gig-worker subjects, where the original suggestion was to play them as villainous protagonists where the gig-worker subjects are about as important as blood dolls are in any Vampire game. Ah yeah I see where the wires got crossed there. Well, either way, eat the rich.
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Oct 31, 2021 14:33
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So what are people's views/thoughts about Vampire 5E overall? I'm actually really digging the streamlining of everything and the cutting out of a lot of the stupider lore bits, as well as making the whole setting a little less canon heavy with more room for players to do whatever. Also Loresheets rule. Anyone else actually like it, or is this thread basically gonna live up to my usual expectations and mostly be people talking about how it sucks and CoD is superior in every imaginable way? (I am not asking about a comparison beween it and CoD, just if people like 5E or not)
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Nov 1, 2021 06:21
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I think V5 is pretty fun.
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Nov 1, 2021 10:00
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Goon consensus is that V5 is fine if a little bland, but is held back by poo poo-awful fluff and the Chechnya fiasco
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Nov 1, 2021 10:07
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Digital Osmosis posted:I'm thinking they meant "the villains'", as in the antagonists. So in iHunt the techbro hunters are antagonists because you play their gig-worker subjects, where the original suggestion was to play them as villainous protagonists where the gig-worker subjects are about as important as blood dolls are in any Vampire game. Yeah, "antagonists" would have been the better word for what I was getting at.
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Nov 1, 2021 10:20
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Yeah consensus AFAICT is that V5 is fine. The real nightmare of *OD gaming is that "which is the good edition" varies by line and as much as I'm the COD2e partisan, there are 5 and 20th versions of some lines that are more highly regarded. What's interesting to me is that for all the popularity and cultural associations the Vampire line has, it never seems to light people's brains on fire*. A lot of what keeps this thread afloat and keeps us in these games is that Mage and Changeling and Wraith and Promethen are really provocative and interesting. I even know a person who can't get over how cool hunter is. I never really see that for Vampire, and I'd be interested to see if I'm wrong and someone has really engaged thoughts about Vampire and its philosophy. *insert special exemption for Vampire LARP as a social nightmare
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Nov 1, 2021 13:37
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cod is superior in almost every way. lore sheets and predator types seem fun though
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Nov 1, 2021 14:12
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Most of the affection I have for VtM, at least for the stuff that's not directly tied in with memories of games I've been in, is due to just how absolutely gonzo the metaplot and history is. Like how a good deal of the spiritual foundation of the Sabbat harkens back to how a polycule in Constantinople fell apart. Or how the Giovanni keep trying to do things that they are totally going to come out ahead on only to have it blow up in their face. Or how there's one small town where the three vampires all get along and take turns being Prince. That being less of a thing in V5 doesn't make it *bad*, I just don't have the years of experience playing it so I don't have as much of a foundation to judge it.
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Nov 1, 2021 14:23
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V5 has a lot of interesting ideas and even a few shakeups to the setting I like, with what feels like more of a focus on being a person who has been turned into a vampire like 1E Vampire or Requiem. I think Requiem 2E does it better but if you want your big ol' WoD then V5 is... almost okay. Some of the rules still don't feel very good, I'd much rather count blood points than worry about the Hunger Die. Some of the setting changes also feel like "Okay, I get this was good for your home game, Ericsson, but not a game's entire setting." I still hate the Beckoning as if it was an attempt to remove a bunch of elders so young vampires had room to grow why do you keep around Helena and Critias in Chicago. The destruction of the Venice Chantry I do like as it's a fun shakeup for Tremere that puts them on footing similar to the rest of the clan (and was apparently not Ericsson's idea, but Ken Hite's). Predator Styles are a neat idea and Loresheets are fun. So, yeah, mixed leaning towards moderately positive.
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Nov 1, 2021 14:52
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Main reason to ask: I'm South Asian and have been chatting with some actual White Wolf staffers casually in the main WoD and V5 discords, and basically outlined a retcon for KotE to make them just vampires that have a different belief structure (same systems as basic vampire, same core clans even though they have different names and many believe they're separate entities or that the western Kindred are just bloodlines of their clan) and the same layout with disciplines, just a lot of the less stupid powers being turned into Amalgams or special variant powers. "Kuei-Jin" is tossed as a term and is a silly polyglot American immigrant term that bled backwards and most of the Vampires in Asia find it silly and insulting. Dharmas aren't a thing other than being Conviction and Tenet blocks that many follow. Caine and the concept of Noddism are entirely western concepts, with one of the prevailing philosophies being centered around Hinduism and Buddhism as the "TRUE" source, the westerners having their own hot take is laughable, etc. Putting it together in a homebrew splat and have a Filipino friend and a Korean friend helping out, but would like to get some more heads in on it, particularly someone well versed in Chinese mythology and language, as well as just having more Asian history buffs would be really helpful - I'm well versed in Indian, Chinese, and Japanese history, but my knowledge of Southeast Asian history is pretty much post 1800s and we don't want to get stuff wrong. The one staffer ice spoken to at length about it honestly seemed super interested in it, so who knows, maybe it could become more than just a homebrew splat, since they've been hovering around KotE and avoiding it, but they're so steeped historically in the game that it's hard to rationalize all of it as a cohesive game without taking a hatchet to something. All the Chi stuff and ill advised and misunderstood orientalist theorycraft bullshit is getting thrown out and we're trying to honor the cultures and traditions of our peoples while also merging ideas from the base game in since there are actually plenty of parallels and it's surprisingly easy to make a lot of it work. The goal is to be able to maintain a lot of the old canon of the Wan Kuei being this "external" threat that clashes with the traditional western Kindred, but then also show a nice and balanced modern take where clans like the Ventrue and Tremere have made some headway into Japan, China, etc while still butting heads with what is essentially a fundamentally different ideologically vampire group. But yeah, hit me up if anyone is interested. Gonna be hammering away at it for awhile. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 15:28
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Good luck, because the whole thing with Demon Emperor and the Yama Kings and Saulot is kind of integral to a bunch of old metaplot and that's gonna have some knock-on effects. Rewriting the metaplot is probably a good idea anyway. I always found it funny that Mikaboshi wasn't at all like Amatsu Mikaboshi but then they introduced another Yama King that was a lot closer. Big proof they did not do any research other than watching a bunch of animes and hong kong movies right there.
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Nov 1, 2021 15:54
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I can firmly say that I'm interested in the end result but I don't have any skills you don't already have. I'm excited to see what you make!
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Nov 1, 2021 16:17
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Tulip posted:Yeah consensus AFAICT is that V5 is fine. The real nightmare of *OD gaming is that "which is the good edition" varies by line and as much as I'm the COD2e partisan, there are 5 and 20th versions of some lines that are more highly regarded. The problem, imo, is not that Vampire doesn't have a lot of interesting politics and philosophy. Because it does, and I am one of those nerds that could talk about VtR lore for ages. (I can't for VtM, but that game's a bit before my time.) The problem is that Vampire is generally very clear on the fact that Vampires are ultimately parasites and their philosophies are ultimately just ways to justify that to themselves, and that makes it harder to start talking about them. (Also, good luck with the KotE remake/update.)
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Nov 1, 2021 16:38
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Also any vampire philosophy question is best answered by watching Blade and What We Do In The Shadows. No I will not explain.
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Nov 1, 2021 17:16
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I watched Blade for the first time last week to psych myself up for All Of Their Strengths. Way better than I expected!
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Nov 1, 2021 17:49
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My group is playing a short V5 game set in Chicago, mostly street level and about mantaining our domain. It's been fun so far, but more despite the system than because of it (beastial failures and messy criticals are often a source of heartache). Our GM has been very generous with blood (for instance they did decide that rouse checks at the start of every session is indeed bullshit) and making sure our game isn't frenzy.exe (honestly, RAW vampires go nuts pretty often). And the amount of times the game pushes against combat, as playing the combat monster of the group, does frustrate. For instance, vampiric regeneration at Blood Potency 1 is kind of awful, even with the errata.
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Nov 1, 2021 18:03
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Honestly I like V5 in it's own bubble, as it's own thing I think it's a fairly good vampire game. When compared against it's predecessor I only have super minor flavor gripes with the merging of certain disciplines and entire clans, but think it's well worth to deal with that versus ever having to look at gun stat blocks again in WOD. Versus Requiem, I'm actually not a fan of requiem's flavor at all comparatively.
Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 18:31
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I like Requiem, but it's so small compared to all the other splats. It's the easiest as a GM and player to run, don't get me wrong, but it's almost in that Promethan terrortiry of it being too personal to get a good game out of it. V5 does suck though, but that mostly has to do with a lot of half baked mechanics and not the new plot which is...well I don't like it, but I never liked any of V:TM's general metaplot and just liked the window dressing and setting to begin with so whatever. Most of the Chronciles stuff is much better: Mage, Werewolf, Demon (though Fallen rules too), Geist, and especially Changeling.
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Nov 1, 2021 18:47
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Loomer posted:Also any vampire philosophy question is best answered by watching Blade and What We Do In The Shadows. Vampire philosophy in a nutshell: some motherfuckers always tryin'a ice skate up hill.
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Nov 1, 2021 19:24
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Nov 1, 2021 21:28
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Fuzz, I think your efforts to reposition the lore of Eastern vampires is awesome. I really like the idea of recontextualizing the vampires of V:tM in a context based on East Asian mythology and history, and wish you success on your project! This is a great interest of mine as well, so I would be happy to collaborate.MonsieurChoc posted:Good luck, because the whole thing with Demon Emperor and the Yama Kings.... The Yama Kings and their demon agents are everywhere, working to bring about the fall of the Wan Xian's inheritors and an Age of Darkness. Shifters and fae are demons, witches are demons and take their power from them, dead souls rise to the Earth as demons to haunt us, etc. (the label "demon" is something the Cainites of the East use as an excuse to oppress and commit violence upon other supernaturals, just as Western Cainites use labels like "Lupine" and "Infernalist") One thing I might integrate with East Asian Kindred are rituals that draw power from sacred sites, so that creates instant conflict with other supernaturals. And unlike shifters and mages, the relationship created with those sites is entirely parasitic. They wouldn't be too different from Tremere and Tzimisce koldun rituals that do the same thing. quote:and Saulot... Saulot (Zao La) came to the Middle Kingdom in ages past to explore the nature of his curse and find further insight into Golconda, and possibly even the secret to becoming human again. He and many elders in what is now modern China exchanged knowledge and insight, and he even managed to establish a brood of childer known in the modern day as the Wu Zao. But despite his studies and the advice of his teachers ("Let go of your daddy issues and accept your Hunger and immortal state"), he found his efforts stymied and left in disgust (possibly creating the Baali along the way back home). Gatto Grigio fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 21:14
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V5's most important innovation is using array-based chargen in tandem with scaling XP costs for traits, but it fucks this up with the free predator type discipline dot. Hunger would have been an interesting mechanic if it was A) less disruptive in scene-to-scene play (i.e. bestial failures and messy criticals had some kind of sliding scale of severity) and B) being Hunger-capped threatened your Humanity in some way but didn't actually turn all your powers off. As is, it's just a blood pool with extra steps.
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Nov 2, 2021 22:39
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Ferrinus posted:V5's most important innovation is using array-based chargen in tandem with scaling XP costs for traits, but it fucks this up with the free predator type discipline dot. How much XP do you lose out on if you don't go the route of starting with a discipline at 2? Like 5? Which is not to say it's not irritating, but more that I know how much to give to a player who doesn't do it.
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Nov 3, 2021 03:40
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Dawgstar posted:How much XP do you lose out on if you don't go the route of starting with a discipline at 2? Like 5? Which is not to say it's not irritating, but more that I know how much to give to a player who doesn't do it. I don't actually remember what the numbers are, but since the best thing you can get is the third dot in one of your in-clan disciplines (which is worth, like... 15 xp?) it's probably best to just give everyone that much extra XP spendable on predator type-compatible disciplines only. If you've got some left over, save it and combine it with regular XP later.
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Nov 3, 2021 03:51
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I'm having some trouble with CofD Aspirations (and, in Mage, Obsessions). In my last game, the players treated them effectively like a checklist of things to do every session, optimized on a per-session basis to gain them the maximum number of Beats. They were always appropriately aspirational and always fit their character, but they were also tailor-made for each session based on what they thought they were going to be doing. If they were going on a heist, for instance, everyone would take heist-related Aspirations that were effectively guaranteed to be resolved that session. If someone wound up missing an Aspiration, then that was treated as a failure and wasted XP. I tried asking them to come up with longer-term ones that were either aligned with the group's long-term plans ("let's build a magical fortress") or focused on each character's motivation ("I need to be there for my kids") but then they'd try to shoehorn them in to every session so that they could get that box ticked. It started getting pretty adversarial after a while so I just abandoned the system entirely and just gave them the beats. I'm hoping to start a new game soon-ish, with a different set of players that are still pretty powergamey. How do I sell the Aspiration system as a narrative tool instead of an XP farm?
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Nov 3, 2021 07:00
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blastron posted:I'm having some trouble with CofD Aspirations (and, in Mage, Obsessions). In my last game, the players treated them effectively like a checklist of things to do every session, optimized on a per-session basis to gain them the maximum number of Beats. They were always appropriately aspirational and always fit their character, but they were also tailor-made for each session based on what they thought they were going to be doing. If they were going on a heist, for instance, everyone would take heist-related Aspirations that were effectively guaranteed to be resolved that session. If someone wound up missing an Aspiration, then that was treated as a failure and wasted XP. I tried asking them to come up with longer-term ones that were either aligned with the group's long-term plans ("let's build a magical fortress") or focused on each character's motivation ("I need to be there for my kids") but then they'd try to shoehorn them in to every session so that they could get that box ticked. It started getting pretty adversarial after a while so I just abandoned the system entirely and just gave them the beats. This is the correct way to use them unfortunately. Pick something you think you’re going to do so get the beats. It’s not super ideal, but does give the table an idea of what everyone wants to do. Better solution is to either use static XP gains in a session so you’re not pushing squares through circles, or just giving everyone aspiration beats anyway because they’ve been helpful in pushing the session in a direction.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:08
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NutritiousSnack posted:I like Requiem, but it's so small compared to all the other splats. It's the easiest as a GM and player to run, don't get me wrong, but it's almost in that Promethan terrortiry of it being too personal to get a good game out of it. V5 does suck though, but that mostly has to do with a lot of half baked mechanics and not the new plot which is...well I don't like it, but I never liked any of V:TM's general metaplot and just liked the window dressing and setting to begin with so whatever. How in the world is "your game will probably take place in one city" small compared to other COD splats, or even remotely like Promethean?
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Nov 3, 2021 15:09
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Jhet posted:This is the correct way to use them unfortunately. Pick something you think you’re going to do so get the beats. It’s not super ideal, but does give the table an idea of what everyone wants to do. Yeah, the whole point is 'Hey storyteller, here's the things I want to see happen to my character this session.'
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Nov 3, 2021 16:04
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I’m still a bit annoyed that V5 and most of these games recommended XP allowances per session are “1 XP, maybe 2 if you want accelerated advancement”. So even under accelerated advancement I have to wait at least 7 sessions, depending on story awards, to raise an in-clan Discipline dot from 2 to 3 (15 XP)? Like how long do they assume your average V5 game is supposed to last?
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Nov 3, 2021 16:31
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Gatto Grigio posted:I’m still a bit annoyed that V5 and most of these games recommended XP allowances per session are “1 XP, maybe 2 if you want accelerated advancement”. So even under accelerated advancement I have to wait at least 7 sessions, depending on story awards, to raise an in-clan Discipline dot from 2 to 3 (15 XP)? Like how long do they assume your average V5 game is supposed to last? Well, yeah. That's why CoD v2 switched to static XP costs. Just have your table switch to static costs (just steal them from Requiem, who cares) and you're buying that dot with 2-3 sessions. Feels better for the players, and you actually get to use all the toys in the toybox.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:39
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AFAICT the RAW XP stuff is intended for like...100+ sessions. It's very silly.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:43
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Gatto Grigio posted:Fuzz, I think your efforts to reposition the lore of Eastern vampires is awesome. I really like the idea of recontextualizing the vampires of V:tM in a context based on East Asian mythology and history, and wish you success on your project! This is a great interest of mine as well, so I would be happy to collaborate. Hell yeah, PM me or hit me up on Discord, Fuzz#8896 In the rewrite, to fit the overall themes and spirit of V5 and the fact that there are no Salubri or alternate Tremere (but reg Tremere in HK and Tokyo) and the fact that ultimately all that errata could just be western propaganda anyway, the 13th clan of the East is the only one that's actually different from the base clans - the Pehari. Based out of Tibet, they've always had three eyes, even before Saulot (whose name is just Saulot, because no one Mandarinizes western names, wtf) showed up trying to broker peace and ended up diablerizing a boddhisatthva and stealing the third eye. They don't have the same clan disciplines as the Salubri, still have Auspex, but other stuff is different. Their Bane is the same, different Compulsion, though.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:09
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Jhet posted:This is the correct way to use them unfortunately. Pick something you think you’re going to do so get the beats. It’s not super ideal, but does give the table an idea of what everyone wants to do. TheCenturion posted:Yeah, the whole point is 'Hey storyteller, here's the things I want to see happen to my character this session.' Thanks. It's unfortunate, but understandable. I think I'll just give flat XP with bonuses for big plot beats and rework the system somehow as a means to track medium- and long-term character goals without XP attached to it. (Morality? Willpower?)
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Nov 3, 2021 19:44
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blastron posted:Thanks. It's unfortunate, but understandable. I think I'll just give flat XP with bonuses for big plot beats and rework the system somehow as a means to track medium- and long-term character goals without XP attached to it. (Morality? Willpower?) Aspirations are still good for this, or make a second tier long term goal thing that can trigger that thing. Mage has obsessions, but most other lines have something similar iirc. Group beats are also a good fix for this problem, because then the group has incentive to help each other fulfill goals. Personally, we just went with group beats until that got annoying as book keeping. After that we switched to a static 1xp/1axp (mage) per session because XP gain was still slower than we wanted. I’d tack on extra when they’d resolve a big plot point, but once we had static gains we had more fun playing the game instead of trying to keep up with the paperwork. It also helped when I started each session by just asking what goals people really wanted to work on too. This may not work for every table, but it worked well for us.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:06
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I've literally never had fun with Aspirations because they feel like they just add constant homework to everything and because they really don't fit well if you like freewheeling roleplay stuff that goes in directions you don't explicitly plan for ahead of time.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:24
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Yeah I'm using a static 1xp/1axp per session, and am controlling power progression by only letting them buy gnosis with arcane XP. So far that seems to be working out pretty well for everyone.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:27
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Aspirations are one of the things that made me bounce off 2nd Edition, though not as much as the maze of Tilts and Conditions.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:31
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