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Isn't it likely that's the matched absence voting thing? Like if those 28 Labour MPs had voted against they just would have dragged in 28 extra Tories to vote for. lol that one of them is Starmer though
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Nov 3, 2021 17:32
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Doccykins posted:https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1124 I mean some are going to have abstained because of illness (like starmer) but you think they would have been herding as many of them as they could into the chamber. Some of those definitely abstained by choice e: and the SNP have no loving excuse
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Nov 3, 2021 17:33
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So the only non-tory voters are the sexpest conservative who still doesnt have the whip back, and Sammy Wilson. 13 broke the whip. peanut- posted:Isn't it likely that's the matched absence voting thing? Like if those 28 Labour MPs had voted against they just would have dragged in 28 extra Tories to vote for. Tories will break pairing convention whenever doing so lets them win, labour won't break it to maintain a basic principle of democracy lmao
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Nov 3, 2021 17:35
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Spangly A posted:Wait so they got 250 votes, on a three line whip, with 361 MPs, on a bill opposition MPs apparently also supported? nope, they're just too ashamed to have their name next to it
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Nov 3, 2021 17:36
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lol lmao
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Nov 3, 2021 17:37
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Barry Foster posted:lol the state of this country is extremely good and cool actually
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Nov 3, 2021 17:40
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The international rules based order strikes again.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:40
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I think the funniest thing about this is that the government is happy to destroy any pretence that they are opposed to corruption to save 1 MP. From being suspended for a month.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:41
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I think the funniest thing about this is that the government is happy to destroy any pretence that they are opposed to corruption to save
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Nov 3, 2021 17:44
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Is this too much hubris? It is at least the lead story in every paper. Con (+2)
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Nov 3, 2021 17:46
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Yeah it's not even remotely about Owen Paterson, it's just a nice excuse to have a vote on it and absolve themselves (even more) of any potential future consequences.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:46
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I would be surprised if it makes much difference, the people who vote for them are still gonna vote for them as long as they promise to make everything worse.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:47
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Spite overtaking Gove's cocaine to become the most powerful substance in British politics needs a commiserative day of some kind
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Nov 3, 2021 17:50
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Looking at the voting records of the 13 Tories, Holly mumby croft kinda stands out. Incredible Brexit energy, grandad a steelworker, only 36, loves schools and hospitals, 'ates forrins, bribery, kids going hungry, simple as.a pipe smoking dog posted:I think the funniest thing about this is that the government is happy to destroy any pretence that they are opposed to corruption to save 1 MP. From being suspended for a month. It's not 1 MP, it's 248. It could be harder to do the bad apples line if it gets made public that the majority of your party (and entirety of your cabinet) are too corrupt for hm's government. They've just dealt with that possibility at absolutely no political cost
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Nov 3, 2021 17:52
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The other way to look at it is that Boris just explicitly gave the go ahead to anyone that needs a bit of extra undeclared cash for cocaine and chalet renovations
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Nov 3, 2021 17:54
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Let us not forget wood-pellet fed biomass boiler heated horse solarium as an option
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Nov 3, 2021 17:56
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Just got one of those emails from the Labour Party about that breach. Using an email address I didn't use for them for at least 2 years before I quit. And I have now been formally quit (including confirmation email from them since March 2020. I do use that email address for Unite though. So I'm wondering if they're also picking up affiliates. I've not got round to stopping the political contribution element so I can possibly still get a vote in a leadership challenge if anyone worth it stands.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:59
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peanut- posted:Is this too much hubris? It is at least the lead story in every paper. I doubt it. Most non-politically engaged people think 'they're all at it anyway' 'what more can you expect' 'wot a larf, Boris boys cheaky stealin' bantz' etc.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:01
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Yeah exactly this is just going to lead to "well they're all corrupt aren't they" rather than any anger targeted specifically at tories.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:03
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https://twitter.com/SaHreports/status/1455529109602422796
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Nov 3, 2021 18:03
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I mean looking at the labour party they probably aren't much better.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:05
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Just got one of those emails from the Labour Party about that breach. Using an email address I didn't use for them for at least 2 years before I quit. Yes, it includes information on affiliated supporters, so that makes sense.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:06
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OwlFancier posted:I mean looking at the labour party they probably aren't much better. Also  https://twitter.com/SaHreports/status/1455530187811131408
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Nov 3, 2021 18:07
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Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:30
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Preaching to the choir here but if you as the opposition parties (I'm including the SNP and the Lib Dems in this) cannot even get all of your MPs to vote to say that the party are a bunch of shits, what even is the loving point in the whole endeavour.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:37
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I don't think not voting delegitimizes the political system, unfortunately.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:39
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It does if people start questioning why these bloated, hateful fucks have any say over our lives, and that has to start with people not feeling like they have a duty to give them a seal of approval every five years no matter how little they actually like them. The number of people who think that you don't have a right to complain if you don't vote is distressingly large.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:42
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I don't think that's really related to voting or not, though, that's describing revolutionary desire, voting or not I think is tangential to that, if everyone stops votng then MPs just vote for themselves and then shrug and go "oh well I guess that counts". Equally if you have people willing to start fighting in the streets about politics then that's pretty separate from voting turnout, I think, they can do that whether they voted or not, and I don't think not voting makes them more likely to want to do that.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:45
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:The number of people who think that you don't have a right to complain if you don't vote is distressingly large. If you voted for A and A won, then you won, what are you complaining about? If you voted for A and B won, then you lost, get over it, will of the people. If you didn't vote then you didn't play the game, you can't complain. The logical sum of the three being "shut up, prole"
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Nov 3, 2021 18:48
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I guess I would say that the government's legitimacy isn't really founded in democracy, that's the story they tell but it isn't, the government is "legitimate" to the extent that it is able to govern people, i.e its control of the police and the police's control of the country and thus the government's ability to enforce its decisions on other people, usually centered around restricting access to property, places, goods, or services. The democratic process is just a small part of making people unwilling to challenge that control, but the main part of it is a combination of the feeling that it isn't worth it to challenge it, and that it is impossible to challenge it.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:52
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now. Yeah he's called Russell brand and was really popular around 2013
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Nov 3, 2021 18:57
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goddamnedtwisto posted:They're not particularly sensitive so will false-negative quite a bit, especially because people are reluctant to stick things deep enough into their head holes, but if you're testing semi-regularly (and get a proper test, or at least do multiple LFTs, if symptomatic) they're fine. IIRC the false-positive rate is basically zero, but the false-negative rate can be as high as 25%. All the best scams have already been taken  Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:58
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poo poo. Guess I'll grow my hair out then, make my voice a bit nasally, see where that goes.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:21
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now. Bercow put quite a lot of energy as Speaker into going into schools and colleges to talk about the importance of voting, because he was apparently concerned that fewer and fewer people were turning out for elections. Hoyle's first major effort was to tell people to be dress smart. Because that's apparently important.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:22
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now. I'd assume any serious movement like this would be paid for directly out of the pockets of Conservative Central Office.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:47
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https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1455965885466820610
fuctifino fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 19:48
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I suppose, on balance, Patterson is in the right. How can he be bringing the House into disrepute if the House is rotten with disrepute?
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Nov 3, 2021 20:16
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is there any kind of movement dedicated to encouraging people not to vote in an effort to delegitimise the entire political system, that feels the only thing I'd be willing to get behind right now. Loads, and more crop up all the time, but no institution actually gives a poo poo if a party won with 100% turnout or 1%, the baddies still control all the reins of power. You can't slacktivision your way out of constitutional rot. Now, wide scale civil disobedience, that sometimes gets results.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:17
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Shame that insulate Britain crowd didn't head up to Scotland and glue themselves to the m8 Infront of biden's beast. Also when Scotland becomes independent will they rename the m8 the M1?
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Nov 3, 2021 20:29
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Gort posted:You can sit in VR for games that expect you to be standing but the game will think you're like 3 feet tall. In Trover Saves the Universe your character sits in a floating chair directed by an xbox controller, which is pretty convenient.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:34
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