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adhuin posted:Jordan could have written a Trilogy instead with emphasis on three-part series. Or maybe 6-7 book series. absolutely
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Nov 1, 2021 23:18
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adhuin posted:Jordan could have written a Trilogy instead with emphasis on three-part series. Or maybe 6-7 book series. he literally had the end already planned out and had maybe considered some related stuff in the same universe after it was done, but that was assuming he hadn't died when he did
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Nov 1, 2021 23:30
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Johnny Joestar posted:he literally had the end already planned out and had maybe considered some related stuff in the same universe after it was done, but that was assuming he hadn't died when he did He also only has so much patience for any given project. I was just looking at his wiki entry out of curiosity earlier, and he talked about how he had a pretty successful series of historical fiction novels written in the mid-80s under another pen-name that he just got bored of and so stopped writing, even though he knew he could have continued to spin it out for longer and made more money off them. I'd assume the books were all pretty self contained or something, and that he didn't just leave them in the lurch but I suppose that's possible too. The broader point is that at some point he was going to get bored of the "Wheel of Time" books, even if he could technically have continued and just wanted to do something else. He'd already talked several times about wanting to write a different fantasy series he had some rough plans in place for. That aside, the more amazing/amusing thing to me on reading his wiki entry is: Wikipedia posted:He is one of several writers to have written original Conan the Barbarian novels; his are considered some of the best of the non-Robert E. Howard efforts by fans. Jordan also published historical fiction using the pseudonym Reagan O'Neal, a western as Jackson O'Reilly, and dance criticism as Chang Lung. Jordan claimed to have ghostwritten an "international thriller" that is still believed to have been written by someone else. Having looked his bibliography up, he wrote 7 Conan books, all in the space of two years, between 1982 and 1984. Including 3 in 1984 alone. Say what you want about Jordan, the man was a loving machine when it came to writing. His wife notes that he wrote his first novel in 13 days, and I can loving believe it. It wasn't published till years later, and it's probably not great if it was written in 13 days, but at the same time; drat! That, and the fact he did some dance criticism too is just fabulous. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 23:42
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He died at 58 in 2007 of amyloidosis, and he was cranking out doorstoppers for 15 years consistently from 1990-2005, when he released Knife of Dreams, the last book before the final act and one of the best books in the series. Whether he would have taken 3 or more books to finish, it would be over by now. poo poo we'd probably have BWBOBA part 2 by now.
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Nov 1, 2021 23:49
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he would have been a great candidate to finish ASOIAF 
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Nov 1, 2021 23:58
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buffalo all day posted:he would have been a great candidate to finish ASOIAF Sanderson to the rescue. PG rated GoT is what we need.
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Nov 2, 2021 00:23
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tsob posted:Having looked his bibliography up, he wrote 7 Conan books, all in the space of two years, between 1982 and 1984. Including 3 in 1984 alone. Say what you want about Jordan, the man was a loving machine when it came to writing. His wife notes that he wrote his first novel in 13 days, and I can loving believe it. It wasn't published till years later, and it's probably not great if it was written in 13 days, but at the same time; drat! I read that! Warrior of the Altaii. It is, in fact, not great. It's kind of a weird mishmash of a Conan novel with hints of things he would use later with the Aiel, in a weird rear end world that has magic and demon summoning and aliens and a time traveler from the future and....yeah, it's a mess. It's like a big stewpot of everything he could think of just thrown together for the hell of it. Really could have used some significant editing.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:26
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Harriet must have been unavailable.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:57
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It's been covered in the other thread, but the middle books that are generally seen as not that great coincide with the time his wife (who was also his editor) was sick herself.
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Nov 2, 2021 09:57
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tsob posted:He also only has so much patience for any given project. I was just looking at his wiki entry out of curiosity earlier, and he talked about how he had a pretty successful series of historical fiction novels written in the mid-80s under another pen-name that he just got bored of and so stopped writing, even though he knew he could have continued to spin it out for longer and made more money off them. I'd assume the books were all pretty self contained or something, and that he didn't just leave them in the lurch but I suppose that's possible too. The broader point is that at some point he was going to get bored of the "Wheel of Time" books, even if he could technically have continued and just wanted to do something else. He'd already talked several times about wanting to write a different fantasy series he had some rough plans in place for. I don't think "he got bored of writing [not The Wheel of Time]" has to imply "he would get bored of writing The Wheel of Time." When diagnosed with amyloidosis, RJ had been working on The Wheel of Time for about 20 years (counting the time before the release of the first book) and was approaching the conclusion. He was also planning on living another 30+ years. So he talked about what his next projects would be. Some of these were ideas for other novels set in the world of The Wheel of Time, but shorter in length, smaller in scope (a couple more prequels, a couple novels following characters after the end). Some of these were ideas for his next Big Series (then called Infinity of Heaven). Some, I think, were for other novels unrelated to those two series. It wasn't "Man, I'm tired of The Wheel of Time." It was "Well, this is almost done, what should I do next?" (I just find your description of the situation confusing, more than anything else.)
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Nov 2, 2021 15:44
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The situation I was describing is that he's human, and people don't have infinite love for any one project; they'll get bored and want to do other things at some point or other, and that Jordan had even done so in the past. I wasn't describing anything more than that. Least of all that he was currently tired of "Wheel of Time".
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Nov 2, 2021 16:00
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I have no doubt Jordan would have finished the series had his health not been a problem; but it would have likely been quite different from Sanderson's end, and it's a safe bet it would have taken a bit longer. Jordan had a bit of a difficulty towards the end with bringing his characters together, and his tone in writing seems to lean more towards long contemplative stretches of travel. But in any case, I doubt the TV show end would be very similar to the book end other than a high level summary. They are already changing so much in Season 1, and they will likely keep doing the same in later seasons, with changes rippling out the further we go.
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Nov 2, 2021 16:12
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As a avid reader and sometimes participatory of wotmania and dragon dragonmount, back in the early days, I think with Jordan was the first time I was exposed to fanbase bitterness. It left me at ill ease. And it still does even in the relatively small doses I get in this thread. I also wanted the books to be released more frequently and I too felt that some books were better then others. But honestly path of daggers is still better then 90% of the dross out there. And even if you think I'm loving stupid for saying that then you can atleast appreciate the really cool parts in it. He was a person and a writer of a story that followed me all through my youth into my early adult years. Maybe he spent a few pages too many on dresses and sidecharacters but it was still a great fantasy series. Its a good series yo. And Jordan seemed like a good dude with a good work ethic that wanted to deliver great stories.
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Nov 2, 2021 23:26
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Affi posted:As a avid reader and sometimes participatory of wotmania and dragon dragonmount, back in the early days, I think with Jordan was the first time I was exposed to fanbase bitterness. It left me at ill ease. And it still does even in the relatively small doses I get in this thread. I met him once at a signing for book 10. (I know). I asked him how much he wrote. Was it a couple of hours a day or what? He laughed and held up the book. “I eat breakfast, read the New York Times, and go out back and get to work, and I stop when it’s dinner time”. He said. He was a real one, and the worst book (10) could have been two chapters in other books, but drat if I don’t love the rest. Of course 10 is the only one I have signed by him.
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Nov 3, 2021 06:58
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Affi posted:As a avid reader and sometimes participatory of wotmania and dragon dragonmount, back in the early days, I think with Jordan was the first time I was exposed to fanbase bitterness. It left me at ill ease. And it still does even in the relatively small doses I get in this thread. I wish to clarify, that I was never a fan. I just read lot of genre fiction. I originally started to read them as a backstory for the Wheel of Time CCG I was playing at the time. (a Great game for 2 sets and it died when the 3rd bad set got released.) I think I've only read first The first 3 were pretty good books. Rest of the series I read mostly by inertia and fact that my friend borrowed them for me. I had no interest in waiting for the rest of the series and never picked them up. Also the CCG died.
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Nov 3, 2021 07:33
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Sometimes there are reasons for fan bitterness though. Like when Patrick Rothfuss marketed his first book with "book 1 of a trilogy that's already basically written". Then there's a gap of 7 years iirc between book 1 and 2, and now there are not even hints of book 3 coming out anytime soon. Meanwhile, the author regularly streams himself playing games on twitch...
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Nov 3, 2021 08:13
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Imagine how much rage there would be if GRRM streamed whatever he actually spends his day doing
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Nov 3, 2021 08:20
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TOOT BOOT posted:Imagine how much rage there would be if GRRM streamed whatever he actually spends his day doing He blogs though. Mostly about American football and Wild Card-books. 
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Nov 3, 2021 08:43
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adhuin posted:He blogs though. ASOIF will be finished just as soon as the Jets win another Super Bowl.
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Nov 3, 2021 09:10
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cheesetriangles posted:ASOIF will be finished just as soon as the Jets win another Super Bowl. So three years after Gary v buys them? (Which at the rate his NFTs are shooting up, won’t be too long).
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Nov 3, 2021 09:39
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I always assumed he was aiming for 13 books, what with 13 being a significant number in the series and everything.
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Nov 3, 2021 11:10
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Regular people loving love a good heroes journey, chosen one, fantasy story. I think Goons have a tendency to project their own dislike of "regular" or "pg-13 fantasy" onto the regular tv viewing public. We all grew up as fantasy fans and eventually regular or "high" fantasy didn't do it for us anymore and we moved on to grim dark/modern fantasy to get our kicks. Meanwhile Lotr, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Marvel, Hunger games, Twilight, etc. are all raking in billions. WoT has everything it needs to be the next big franchise. The only question is if they can execute on the adaption.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:10
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th3t00t posted:WoT has everything it needs to be the next big franchise. The only question is if they can execute on the adaption. In my opinion, the success of WoT as a franchise (as in, what defines good execution) will strongly depend on how well they can play up the parts of WoT that aren't generic fantasy. The books move away from LotR very quickly, but I could easily imagine an Amazon produced show just not doing that. Then again, Expanse has really shone so maybe there's hope.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:17
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th3t00t posted:Regular people loving love a good heroes journey, chosen one, fantasy story. I can't speak for anyone else, but what I'm channeling is having asked friends and family about it over the last while and getting "No, I don 't like fantasy" from people who like "Harry Potter", "Hunger Games", "Game of Thrones" and/or the MCU stuff in my case. Those things are just exceptions for the people involved, not any kind of rule or norm. At least to them. The show would need to do something to stand out for them to even give it a look, even if that stand out thing is "be real loving popular for at least a little while so they're aware of it and that other people whose taste they align with like it".
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Nov 3, 2021 15:27
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th3t00t posted:
Honestly I think it's gonna be more a question of marketing than anything else. The adaptation so far seems competent, there's plenty of solid source material, just a matter of how many people they can get to click and go "oh that looks neat guess i'll sign up for prime for a month to watch it"
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Nov 3, 2021 15:56
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That was my thought too. It's a question of whether they'll be able to get people to tune in rather than anything else.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:01
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The audience of non booker readers who are going to want to to start a 10 season series on season 1 when it might get canceled after season 2 is going to be small regardless of genre. But if they nail the adaption of the first 2 seasons people will start tuning in en-masse just like what happened with GoT. What are people referring to when they say they don't like fantasy as a genre? Do they just mean bad fantasy like Narnia and Eragon? Or do they mean they don't like the "swords and wizards setting"? There's some serious mental dissonance going on for someone to say they don't like fantasy, yet they like all of the popular fantasy franchises.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:36
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Sab669 posted:That was my thought too. It's a question of whether they'll be able to get people to tune in rather than anything else.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:52
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th3t00t posted:"? There's some serious mental dissonance going on for someone to say they don't like fantasy, yet they like all of the popular fantasy franchises. Serious cognitive dissonance is the normal state for most Americans, but I think this generally tracks with the people who would've said "I don't like that nerd poo poo" before lotr, Harry Potter, etc. became mainstream. They'll like this series if the production values are high enough and everyone is sufficiently hot.
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Nov 3, 2021 17:00
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Eighties ZomCom posted:I always assumed he was aiming for 13 books, what with 13 being a significant number in the series and everything. He was, Sanderson talked about it when he was writing them, but it was too much at the end to do it so they split it into three. Alternately I've always been of the opinion that Books 10 and 11 are basically one book anyway so you could say they succeeded, technically
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Nov 3, 2021 17:44
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th3t00t posted:Do they just mean bad fantasy like Narnia and Eragon? 
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Nov 3, 2021 17:44
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"Fantasy is weird nerd poo poo and I'm not a weird nerd so I don't like fantasy"
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Nov 3, 2021 18:08
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th3t00t posted:The audience of non booker readers who are going to want to to start a 10 season series on season 1 when it might get canceled after season 2 is going to be small regardless of genre. But if they nail the adaption of the first 2 seasons people will start tuning in en-masse just like what happened with GoT. It's people/critics being sniffy about what other people like or enjoy. A lot of fantasy has been very 1 dimensional and is an easy target to prove how sophisticated you are and how much other people want to have sex with you.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:13
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Collateral posted:It's people/critics being sniffy about what other people like or enjoy. A lot of fantasy has been very 1 dimensional and is an easy target to prove how sophisticated you are and how much other people want to have sex with you. It's other nerds (goons) being judgey about what kind of fantasy people are allowed to like, not the general public.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:08
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I think we can all agree that Eragon is terrible drivel.
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Nov 3, 2021 19:10
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That's....exactly what I said?
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Nov 3, 2021 19:11
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if this succeeds they should do Robin Hobbs Farseer-books next. Or Zelazny's Amber chronicles, but that's probably unfilmable. Or Moorcocks Eternal Champion stuff.
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Nov 3, 2021 20:42
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adhuin posted:Or Zelazny's Amber chronicles, but that's probably unfilmable. This one feels like a serious monkey's paw scenario. You know, like taking the Lucifer comic book and making it a police procedural. Or the mangling that happened when they let Stephanie Meyer adapt The Rook. I fear unless you got some really dedicated Amber fans in charge of the show that you'd end up with "Corwin without his memory on Earth as a superhero/troubleshooter" or some such bullshit. 
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Nov 3, 2021 20:51
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tsob posted:I'm channeling heh
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Nov 3, 2021 20:58
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If they want an R rated fantasy series, work on The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:06
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