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At higher MR levels do you get the ability to make steel path guys in simulacrum? They're different from just plain level 100+ guys right?
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Nov 4, 2021 14:28
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A Moose posted:At higher MR levels do you get the ability to make steel path guys in simulacrum? They're different from just plain level 100+ guys right? no to the former, yes to the latter that said SP armor is a relatively simple formula (by Warframe standards) and with SP spawn rates it's not that difficult to live test builds for playstyle differences or to test practical considerations. it's just hard to create an extremely rigorous control group like you can for simulacrum enemies, unfortunately
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Nov 4, 2021 14:31
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Slash procs let you hose big groups instead of waiting on each enemy to die. They're a good thing at any level of play. Dunno why we would want less types of damage and play style - getting ever bigger numbers for a specific damage type is cool and all, but it's good to have damage types that need to be used differently too. E: The biggest problem is how DE don't internally balance the damage types. It's not just that gas's big "toxin AOE" feature was taken away, it's also a lacklustre damage dealer. DE don't seem to care about balancing that out. This is made worse by the combination element types: gas shows up as a combo and so for eg if you're stuck with a great riven roll in terms of numbers but you can't escape having gas from the elements involved, you're kind of sol. That's just silly. v1ld fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 14:32
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v1ld posted:Slash procs let you hose big groups instead of waiting on each enemy to die. They're a good thing at any level of play. Most things melt on the business end of a gun with 7 mods on it. The 8th is the party slot. Hunter Munitions is not a bad choice, it's just far from the only one (SP excluded). A lot of guns benefit greatly from some handling mods.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:40
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Mercury_Storm posted:Even on steel path if slash has a chance to deal damage more than once or twice on a target you're not using the right damage types or your weapons are just bad. yeah, it only takes a few ticks of slash proc damage because slash procs are incredibly strong. slash procs are significantly stronger than pretty much any element's procs, i don't know what temple is talking about.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:42
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smallmouth posted:Most things melt on the business end of a gun with 7 mods on it. The 8th is the party slot. Hunter Munitions is not a bad choice, it's just far from the only one (SP excluded). A lot of guns benefit greatly from some handling mods. Everything doesn't have to be rated purely in terms of the highest end modded load out. Slash is useful well before you even clear the star chart or have multiple forma in every weapon of your choice. Slash isn't interesting when you do have those maxed out loadouts for most content, yes. But that's a problem with the content, not the slash damage model. Though HunMun is its own discussion - giving crit guns a way to do some kind of DoT - was it really needed? It's Warframe's problem that challenge is scaled really poorly even now, so we are all jaded vets looking at the game with a million ways of killing everything multiple times over in our loadouts. That doesn't make slash a bad damage type, just one that we have alternatives for since we can overkill most things in no time today. That's why those lvl 999 runs are fun or 1 hour+ arbys or whatever: how else can you get any semblance of the challenge that makes build diversity important?
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Nov 4, 2021 14:53
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Kuva Zarr (and probably still Kuva Bramma, even after nerfs) is an incredibly broken weapon and can delete heavy grineer eximus units on steel path near instantaneously without any slash procs. Not sure what DE was thinking with this thing honestly.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:54
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oh from a design standpoint Hunter Munitions was a horrific mistake, no question lol arguing for QoL as the ideal 8th mod that's a totally reasonable position. the thing with heat discourse is that the only reason to use heat in the first place is damage maximization; if you're sticking a reload mod or Firestorm or w/e in that slot you're not even part of the argument and can just keep doing you
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Nov 4, 2021 14:55
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It's interesting that SP was the answer to the question: how can I get the 1+ hour challenge experience without waiting for 1 hour to get there. I think it missed on that answer and became its own thing, motivated no doubt by DE's fear that increased item drops will ruin the game for everyone!!!!! The reality is that most players live in the post-scarcity future where we have oodles of resources for all of the content on the star chart except whatever was the last open world they added with new resources. e: So DE need to stop obsessing over this.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:58
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I have no idea if I should include a 2nd element on my weapons or use another mod, but here is what I have learned: - blast sucks unless you need status but I run galvanized shot so ???? gently caress it too hard to figure out - corrosive is okay whatever as long as [conditions I will never ever remember] - toxin is good it goes through shields but you should probably use [one of this set of mods that I've never heard of] instead - viral is great but god help you if you pair it with heat instead of slash because you just ruined the entire game for everyone playing - slash is the absolute best just rebind a button to slash and you will win the game - electricity and cold don't exist - puncture and whatever the other melee thing is other than slash don't exist either - magnetism sucks don't use it or you're dumb, like forrest gump dumb, like that guy in Dune who rolls his eyes in the back of his head and tells you the price of trash compactors on Jupiter would laugh at you so hard... Araganzar fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 14:58
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You can also ignore the hunt for the perfect damage type and just stick with Viral/Heat or Viral/Slash or even any other build that the weapon is suited for. Most content doesn't need any kind of perfect build to delete. Blast causes two status procs: blast itself and the knockdown it causes is also a status. If your weapon doesn't mind the enemy being prone, it's a decent damage type when paired with CO or galvanized shot. Decent, because they're all decent except for a few bad outliers.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:05
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v1ld posted:Everything doesn't have to be rated purely in terms of the highest end modded load out. Slash is useful well before you even clear the star chart or have multiple forma in every weapon of your choice. Sorry, I'm not saying slash is bad--it's literally the best with Viral. You're right, it's useful outside of SP. I'm just reacting to the idea that it's necessary or even optimal. There are more "fun" builds without it that work just fine for almost anything. You're right the balance is bad. So bad. And I'm on Switch--no one stays longer than 30 minutes for an Arby anymore.  Araganzar posted:I have no idea if I should include a 2nd element on my weapons or use another mod, but here is what I have learned: This is what I mean when I said I wish they'd make more elements useful.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:07
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Araganzar posted:- corrosive is okay whatever as long as [conditions I will never ever remember] If your weapon has innate viral you put corrosive on it because you can; if your weapon doesn't have innate viral or corrosive you cannot put both on, because they both build out of Toxin, and Viral is more valuable than Corrosive. quote:- slash is the absolute best just rebind a button to slash and you will win the game Unless they shift away from giving everything fat stacks of armor in the lategame, yes. quote:- puncture and whatever the other melee thing is other than slash don't exist either Impact has its uses, insofar as: 1. It increases the threshold to execute a chunky enemy, which lets you enjoy a free energy orb occasionally 2. The best sword stance gives you a lot of it for free
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Nov 4, 2021 15:12
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magnetic is the only damage type that is never correct (and even then there are a couple of very small asterisks like Profit-Taker) anyways it goes something like this viral is god, especially with slash, because it's literally just All Your poo poo Does More Damage to Health slash is god, especially with viral, because it fully bypasses armor and also serves as a damage multiplier in and of itself, at the minor cost of being a DoT instead of instant --- below this line you can stop caring and be fine for 99% of content in the game and suffer only minor inconvenience vs. Deimos enemies and a few specialized bosses -- corrosive is often best vs. enemies that a) have significant armor and b) are arbitrarily immune to viral radiation is best against the remainder of enemies of that type (based on elemental weaknesses, the status effect is cool but irrelevant) heat is worse corrosive but can be added to builds where corrosive would be either impossible to add or prohibitively expensive on mod space. it's not horrible -- the intensity of this argument is because it overlaps in purpose, meaning there can literally only be one correct answer, not because heat sucks and doesn't do anything --- below this line you can basically stop caring for any reason other than curiosity -- impact sucks as a damage type but impact procs make it easier to mercy kill enemies which can enable some fun synergy builds and triggered effects puncture procs suck but puncture gets a bonus against most types of armor so it's not the worst damage type to have toxic fully bypasses shields; this is rarely worth building for but can be a nice perk for a kuva / tenet melee weapon if you're using one of the small handful of builds that don't use elemental mods at all and are thus stuck with the innate type (e.g. heavy attack Tenet Livia) electric is what gas used to be -- very strong if you can cram a huge number of enemies together in the same space, and if armor doesn't completely deflate the real damage output. it also CCs cold procs are occasionally relevant for slowing down enemies that use special bullshit damage attenuation scaling blast is mostly a joke but a few annoying enemies have a resist hole for it. you'll probably never put blast on your guns on purpose but it doesn't always completely suck to have it on your weapon innately, which is good because some of the best weapons in the game are stuck with blast gas is a pale shadow of what it used to be and mostly just worse electric --- here be dragons --- applying a rainbow of damage types and then switching to a different weapon with Condition Overload or one of the status count-based Galvanized mods can let you deal A Whole Lotta Damage there are also extremely specialized, borderline-exploit builds that use glitches in how Warframe keeps track of damage multipliers to make pure heat extremely deadly, and I guess something similar might exist for gas but I'm not familiar with the latter Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 15:15
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smallmouth posted:Sorry, I'm not saying slash is bad--it's literally the best with Viral. You're right, it's useful outside of SP. I'm just reacting to the idea that it's necessary or even optimal. There are more "fun" builds without it that work just fine for almost anything. You're right the balance is bad. So bad. And I'm on Switch--no one stays longer than 30 minutes for an Arby anymore. Agreed on the fun factor due to trying to make HunMun work on everything with even a smidgen of crit. But that too is a reflection of the required base mods. It'd be so much better if we have like 4 option slots on each gun and the mods to make diverse builds using those slots. While I don't miss many of the limitations of the game on the Switch, I do miss building up that clan and dojo from scratch. Fun times. The Steam Deck will make Warframe PC a portable game again. Looking forward to its release.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:15
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Mercury_Storm posted:Kuva Zarr (and probably still Kuva Bramma, even after nerfs) is an incredibly broken weapon and can delete heavy grineer eximus units on steel path near instantaneously without any slash procs. Not sure what DE was thinking with this thing honestly. The Bramma is high base damage, crit chance, crit damage and AOE--it's the perfect candidate for Hunter Munitions. I've found the Kuva Kohm is better as a high status hose without HM for SP. It also shreds Boopy Boys. I'm using a similar build for the Zarr, but I haven't really tested it both ways.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:21
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Cease to Hope posted:yeah, it only takes a few ticks of slash proc damage because slash procs are incredibly strong. slash procs are significantly stronger than pretty much any element's procs, i don't know what temple is talking about.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:36
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Araganzar posted:- viral is great but god help you if you pair it with heat instead of slash because you just ruined the entire game for everyone playing Magnetic is the very best element for the very best guns in the game, sorry pal. Nobody said it had to make any sense. (As the bonus element for Lich/Sister weapons because you don't want to deal magnetic damage, you just want the status.) Viral+Slash is good, Viral+Heat is sometimes better. Electricity does wonderful CC in some fairly narrow cases, but definitely not worthless.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:30
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temple posted:I don't use slash weapons. 
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Nov 4, 2021 16:43
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It's just easier to say that mag is alright as a base damage type, (free extra proc type for the damage for status mods and the proc is a nice bit of extra damage vs sp corpus) but is absolute trash when modded for (Mag is a terrible damage type and weighting the proc is also awful). At least it's a bit better than gas right now. Can't even get gas on a kuva/sister weapon for the extra proc. You could say "why not rad instead because rad is better than mag?" The reason is a few of the kuva/sister weapons have innate rad and not innate mag.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:49
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Magnetic and corrosive also have the problem that they'll eventually kind of negate themselves, if I remember right. Magnetic because once you get through the shields it's kind of beans against the things underneath the shields (which to be fair usually doesn't matter that much because they tend to have lower health and no armor), and with enough corrosive procs you remove the armor that corrosive damage is actually effective against, though most things should be dead before you reach that point. Really the whole system needs another overhaul that's never going to happen, and proc priority probably needs to be decoupled from damage number in some way, but again never going to happen. In all honesty they probably should obliterate hunter munitions as a start, but that would probably just murder weapon variety without any other global fixes that aren't likely to happen. At least blast and impact don't ragdoll enemies all over the place any more which made them even worse than they are now. chumbler fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 17:05
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Corrosive can no longer hit 100% armor strip -- that's only possible with a few frame powers or rare mods now.
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Nov 4, 2021 17:12
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Just use Cedo with Lavos and apply every element under the sun. If one works better than the others, it'll be there, somewhere in the 300 procs on screen.
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Nov 4, 2021 17:26
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https://www.warframe.com/news/dev-workshop-update-3090 Some kind of Prime Vault event coming before New War
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Nov 4, 2021 17:30
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^^^^ Hell yes, this includes the "keep your abilities after forma-ing your frame/archwing/necramech depending on your mastery rank" change.A Moose posted:it does kinda suck that I have to switch out mods every time I go to Deimos, because Cambion Drift infested are resistant to, or completely immune to viral. I run corrosive/heat on Titania most of the time anyway though. I think it might be better against armored targets and I don't like to have to switch Just a tip for anyone who didn't know, you can save loadouts that include your warframe and weapon setups (including mods). In the Arsenal there's a "Loadout Options" button in the lower right corner, which opens a menu where you can make a duplicate of your current setup and name it whatever you want. So you can have your "Infested" specific frame/weapon loadout ready to go alongside your "Spy" or "Steel Path" or whatever. It's handy as heck. The best part is that you can switch between these loadouts at any time, including those few seconds before a mission starts! The lower right of the screen will have a "change loadout" button. Chubbs fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Nov 4, 2021 |
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Nov 4, 2021 17:30
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Just to make the conversation even worse, i would argue that impact isn't as bad as people say it is because internal bleeding and hemorrhage allows you to get slash procs on impact procs now... Kuva chakhurr becomes amazing once more. But in the end it's the slash that's doing dmg.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:22
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Sad feelings when your favorite frame's invigoration runs out and you have to be slow again.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:again this simply isn't true. go shoot a Nox or even just an eximus Heavy Gunner and get back to me This is one of the reasons I've been liking a high-crit nikana zaw for casual steel path. That heavy attack is a 600% damage forced slash proc. Amalgam organ shatter and suchlike you can tap them and walk away. Fake edit: damnit, i guess it is anime in space. Edit: for those not aware, stance forced procs work like hunter munitions does, and count the whole weapon damage. That is, your primed fever strike and other elementals counts towards the slash proc damage. Its one of the reasons, say, reaping spiral is so strong. TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 03:00
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TheParadigm posted:Edit: for those not aware, stance forced procs work like hunter munitions does, and count the whole weapon damage. That is, your primed fever strike and other elementals counts towards the slash proc damage. Its one of the reasons, say, reaping spiral is so strong. this is false. forced slash procs from stances do not increase their damage based on elemental damage (or impact/pen/slash damage) mods.
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Nov 5, 2021 03:46
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TheParadigm posted:This is one of the reasons I've been liking a high-crit nikana zaw for casual steel path. That heavy attack is a 600% damage forced slash proc. Honestly, I hate the nikana heavy attack animation, I'd rather use literally any other forced slash heavy attack weapon
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Nov 5, 2021 06:00
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Blast mostly just sucks because they nerfed how much it launches corpses. I will complain about this until I die. Now impact or just pellet guns in general are the meta for yeeting bodies into space (as far as I know).
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Nov 5, 2021 06:11
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Does the status immunity from the carnis set bonus clear conditions or just prevent you from getting new ones during its duration? The wiki doesn't say as far as I can find.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:46
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Who do you all use for steel path? I wasn't killing fast enough on Protea but spanked the acolyte like they were an impudent child, Saryn was cutting through enemies like they were nothing but as soon as an acolyte showed up they pretty much one shot me, Mirage was doing great but didn't get a chance to face an acolyte.
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Nov 5, 2021 12:48
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Mesadoram posted:Who do you all use for steel path? I wasn't killing fast enough on Protea but spanked the acolyte like they were an impudent child, Saryn was cutting through enemies like they were nothing but as soon as an acolyte showed up they pretty much one shot me, Mirage was doing great but didn't get a chance to face an acolyte. Slash procs? I build a weapon specifically for the Acolytes. Lately I've used the Tenet Livia--charge up the combo meter and holster it. One or two heavy attacks takes out an Acolyte when he shows up. The rest of my kit is for the crowds, drenching them in viral loads and big dumb slash procs via AOE. I think Nyx works really well for SP, between redirecting aggression and armor strip. I still get one shot on occasion.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:11
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Titania, Revenant with a Kuva Bramma, my Wisp loadout designed to abuse the hell out of Exodia Contagion (saw my first billion damage crit recently!) or Mirage Speaking of impact procs, Exodia Contagion explosions have a forced impact proc and boy do they go
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Nov 5, 2021 13:12
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Gloom Necros on every content now. Gloom gives so much survivability it's insane, Necros because I'm greedy and need the extra loot. Also gloom and equilibrium syncs up so well on Necros. And if you're ever in a tough spot, just use Terrify.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:51
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Mesadoram posted:Who do you all use for steel path? I wasn't killing fast enough on Protea but spanked the acolyte like they were an impudent child, Saryn was cutting through enemies like they were nothing but as soon as an acolyte showed up they pretty much one shot me, Mirage was doing great but didn't get a chance to face an acolyte. I did the starchart with a buddy as mostly Wisp, but nowadays it's all Gloom Banshee. Nyx is good for bosses, too. Some bosses benefit from specific loadouts. Like I used a Radiation Shedu for Vay Hek Terra Frame and he melted. I found a heat/viral Convectrix pretty good at murdering stuff, too.
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Nov 5, 2021 14:57
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Titania is great for steel path bosses, captures, rescues, extermination, disruption, sabotage, and survival. Though, there is a point where killing enemies 1-by-1 really quickly is no longer a substitute for good AoE, so she kinda falls off on defense, interception and excavation. also, don't do mobile defense. for spy, she's decent, since being able to fly lets you just dodge a lot of puzzles, but not being able to go invisible or go through lasers without setting them off would be more useful
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Nov 5, 2021 15:06
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I love Wukong for Steel Path, Glaive Prime in my hand and a rivened Exergis for the bro for the acolyte you resummon and listen for the high pitched ratatat
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Nov 5, 2021 15:17
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My go to for SP has been Nyx modded for full armor strip. Just hit 2 and remove armor from anything that doesn't already die in one hit. Heavy gunners, bombards, acolytes, whatever. They all go down a lot faster with no armor. Chaos locks down large groups, and you can swap out her 1 or 4 with whatever helminth ability you please.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:55
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