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Alaois posted:they made him wrestle Big Cass like 4 times in WWE and every match sucked unbelievably bad This can't be overstated. Bryan returned at WrestleMania in 2018, they threw him into the Cass feud after that, and the matches were so bad that people legitimately said "if this is the best Bryan can do, maybe he shouldn't have come back."
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Nov 4, 2021 12:56
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His first NXT-era match was actually against Jericho, and was a nice little six minute match. Then he started getting squashed every week by Wade Barrett, Great Khali, Darren Young, Michael Tarver, William Regal, Skip Sheffield, etc. in under two minutes. Then he had a semi-competitive match against Batista on Raw. In between he lost a bunch of tag and battle royal and handicap matches. His first win after all of that was beating the Miz on Raw in two minutes with a roll-up after which he got beat up by Miz and berated by Michael Cole. Then he got eliminated from NXT and disappeared for a month before the Nexus debuted and he got fired.
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Nov 4, 2021 13:02
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The Big Cass matches might be the worst competitive matches of his career post King of Indies 2001. He managed to get something entertaining out of Kamala but no one liked the Cass matches.
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Nov 4, 2021 14:56
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i liked the bit where he had to grab cass’s hand and remind him to struggle against the Yes Lock
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Nov 4, 2021 14:58
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jesus WEP posted:i liked the bit where he had to grab cass’s hand and remind him to struggle against the Yes Lock You can't teach that.
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Nov 4, 2021 15:08
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Is there anything more embarrassing than listening to WWE commentators try to put over dance segments in the ring?
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Nov 4, 2021 15:16
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Is there anything more embarrassing than listening to WWE commentators try to put over dance segments in the ring? Listening to them try to call a match
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Nov 4, 2021 15:29
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Is there anything more embarrassing than listening to WWE commentators try to put over dance segments in the ring? watching wwe dance segments on tv
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Nov 4, 2021 15:31
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Who are the top five best workers in history? I figure some order of Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Daniel Bryan, then it gets muddier for me. Maybe William Regal? I'm sure there are Japanese wrestlers that fit but I don't know anything about them.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:03
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Who are the top five best workers in history? I figure some order of Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Daniel Bryan, then it gets muddier for me. Maybe William Regal? I'm sure there are Japanese wrestlers that fit but I don't know anything about them. Regal isn't even in the conversation. Not even close. You have obvious people like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, and Liger who crush Bret Hart's output. Guys like Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask who were so good they changed wrestling completely but had short peaks. Then incredible women like Manami Toyota and Aja Kong who had long careers, so many others who had short careers due to forced retirement and you realize very quickly that compiling a top 5 list is basically impossible because you are comparing so many different styles that it's impossible to keep track of. And that doesn't even cover Mexico where you have wrestlers like Negro Casas who was one of the best in the world at his peak and is still really good in his 60s! Or Hijo Del Santo who was maybe the best in the world in the 90s. Or El Dandy who was maybe the best in the world in the early 90s.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:09
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The best worker in history was a Russian guy called Alexey Stakhanov
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Nov 4, 2021 16:13
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MassRafTer posted:Regal isn't even in the conversation. Not even close. You have obvious people like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, and Liger who crush Bret Hart's output. Guys like Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask who were so good they changed wrestling completely but had short peaks. Then incredible women like Manami Toyota and Aja Kong who had long careers, so many others who had short careers due to forced retirement and you realize very quickly that compiling a top 5 list is basically impossible because you are comparing so many different styles that it's impossible to keep track of. El Dandy!? But he's a cruiserweight!
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Nov 4, 2021 16:13
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Yeah, a Top 5 is too few spots when you're trying to compare things like all-time greatest match vs. being consistently great over a long time. Not to mention judging wrestlers by the standards of their time.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:17
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MassRafTer posted:Regal isn't even in the conversation. Not even close. You have obvious people like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, and Liger who crush Bret Hart's output. Guys like Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask who were so good they changed wrestling completely but had short peaks. Then incredible women like Manami Toyota and Aja Kong who had long careers, so many others who had short careers due to forced retirement and you realize very quickly that compiling a top 5 list is basically impossible because you are comparing so many different styles that it's impossible to keep track of. I think Regal might be in the conversation if you limit it to people who were featured players on television in major American companies (WWF/E and WCW). Regal would have likely been a world champion at some point (or many points) if he hadn't had bad drug problems. If you look at American wrestling in the 1990s, Regal was one of the better workers. If you allow Japanese guys or indy workers that never got to the big time, then absolutely not. I think it kinda depends on how you define worker. Do you adjust for the way wrestling was at the time? Workrates have gone up tremendously in the last 20 years, at least in the US.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:20
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Who are the top five best workers in history? I figure some order of Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Daniel Bryan, then it gets muddier for me. Maybe William Regal? I'm sure there are Japanese wrestlers that fit but I don't know anything about them. Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Edge, Undertaker, Roman.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:20
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Even just limiting to North America its hard to place Regal in the top 5 cause his demons really did trip him up.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:23
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, a Top 5 is too few spots when you're trying to compare things like all-time greatest match vs. being consistently great over a long time. Not to mention judging wrestlers by the standards of their time.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:24
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Would Regal be in the running for top five/ten best British wrestlers ever? Because I love Regal and the competition outside of like Dynamite Kid is probably not that great lol.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:25
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5. Fit Finlay 4. Dynamite Kid 3. Kendo Nagasaki 2. Giant Haystacks 1. BIG DADDY Sorry, no room for Regal. Coaaab posted:You also gotta keep track of what's been preserved on tape or any blindspots. Like for example those gifs of French catch posted monthly or so to twitter that bring up questions of how that stuff was lost to the dustbin of history or who carried on that tradition into the future and so on.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:45
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Hellblazer187 posted:I think Regal might be in the conversation if you limit it to people who were featured players on television in major American companies (WWF/E and WCW). Regal would have likely been a world champion at some point (or many points) if he hadn't had bad drug problems. If you look at American wrestling in the 1990s, Regal was one of the better workers. If you allow Japanese guys or indy workers that never got to the big time, then absolutely not. Name a Match of the Year Caliber match Regal has been in on American TV. Then try to come up with as many (in just the 90s) great Regal matches as great Flair, Vader, Benoit, Hart, Michaels, Mysterio, Malenko, Guerrero, wrestlers. And then people like Hennig who flamed out but still had many more great matches in the 90s than Regala. He's not close to the top in American wrestling in the 90s. Hedgehog Pie posted:Would Regal be in the running for top five/ten best British wrestlers ever? Because I love Regal and the competition outside of like Dynamite Kid is probably not that great lol. Sure. He's behind Dynamite, Saint, Robinson and some others but in that next group.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:50
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Halloween Jack posted:Link? Stuff like this https://twitter.com/allan_cheapshot/status/1454730703309099008?t=nsPZHPjWDxW6PvewbDynfQ&s=19
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Nov 4, 2021 17:28
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pwo does a greatest wrestler ever project/poll every 10 years here's 2016's top 20 20) Tatsumi Fujinami (9429 points) 19) Arn Anderson (9443 points) 18) Randy Savage (10548 points) 17) Bret Hart (10757 points) 16) Nick Bockwinkel (10799 points) 15) Ricky Steamboat (11050 points) 14) Vader (11140 points) 13) Genichiro Tenryu (11318 points) 12) Eddy Guerrero (11369 points) 11) Jumbo Tsuruta (11538 points) 10) Jerry Lawler (11603 points) 9) Toshiaki Kawada (11784 points) 8) Kenta Kobashi (11898 points) 7) Rey Mysterio Jr. (11910 points) 6) Jushin Liger (12291 points) 5) Daniel Bryan (12302 points) 4) Mitsuharu Misawa (13216 points) 3) Stan Hansen (13813 points) 2) Terry Funk (14452 points) 1) Ric Flair (15261 points)
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Nov 4, 2021 17:35
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Once again Taue gets snubbed because his contempories are slam dunk top 10 all-time
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Nov 4, 2021 17:37
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now i wanna see a lucha smark list
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Nov 4, 2021 17:41
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MassRafTer posted:Sure. He's behind Dynamite, Saint, Robinson and some others but in that next group. I'd put Rollerball Rocco in there for his work as Black Tiger if nothing else.
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Nov 4, 2021 17:48
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Coaaab posted:now i wanna see a lucha smark list in terms of greatest luchador, it will eternally be 5) bunch of guys in conversation 4) el solitario 3) mil mascaras 2) blue demon 1) el santo
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Nov 4, 2021 20:11
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Smoking Crow posted:in terms of greatest luchador, it will eternally be I wish I could be even half as cool as El Santo.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:15
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I don't know if its directly true but Foley has a story in his first book about how when Mil Mascaras was in the 96 (97?) Rumble the guys agenting the Rumble came to him and asked who he'd like to eliminate him. Mil apparently said the only person he'd let eliminate him from a battle royal was Andre the Giant and Andre was dead. He later decided to just climb to the top and jump out himself. That's GOAT level big timing.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:21
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El Santo was/is a cultural icon on the level of Michael Jordan or Babe Ruth. The president of Mexico went to his funeral!
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Nov 4, 2021 20:27
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Would Regal be in the running for top five/ten best British wrestlers ever? Because I love Regal and the competition outside of like Dynamite Kid is probably not that great lol. ZSJ is definitely in that conversation on a pure technical level.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:15
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ospreay
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Nov 4, 2021 21:26
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projecthalaxy posted:I don't know if its directly true but Foley has a story in his first book about how when Mil Mascaras was in the 96 (97?) Rumble the guys agenting the Rumble came to him and asked who he'd like to eliminate him. Mil apparently said the only person he'd let eliminate him from a battle royal was Andre the Giant and Andre was dead. He later decided to just climb to the top and jump out himself. Mick also wrestled Mil in WCW when they were doing a Texas swing. Mil refused to give him any offense whatsoever, so when Mil "dropkiss"ed him off the apron he did the Nestea Plunge spot to the concrete and completely overshadowed everything Mil did in the match.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:54
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rad
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Nov 4, 2021 22:36
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STONE COLD 64 posted:ospreay If you're going by MRT's criteria of big MOTYCs he probably ranks above Regal, yeah, unfortunately.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:06
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Everything I've heard about Mascaras indicates that he's both a legendary performer and a legendary mark for himself.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:15
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SG Bamboo posted:Once again Taue gets snubbed because his contempories are slam dunk top 10 all-time He can have Lawler's spot.
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Nov 4, 2021 23:45
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Prince devitt aj styles Adam cole Kenny omega jay white
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Nov 5, 2021 01:32
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I slam "Volk Han" down onto the table and let the rabble fight amongst themselves for the remaining four slots.
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Nov 5, 2021 02:15
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Tanahashi and Okada should absolutely be in the discussion, and the fact that they weren't even in 2016 is loving absurd.
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Nov 5, 2021 02:23
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I respect the WON HOF discussions and all that (and I enjoy reading them!) but I came to the decision some time back that you yourself should just like who you like first and foremost. Especially if you're like me and you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of world wrestling through the ages. The whole thing is more fun that way.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:05
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