|
Martytoof posted:Also I'm getting old and life's too short not to indulge in cracking an engine to see what's inside
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 03:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 13:46 |
|
|
I will take your trashed honda 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 03:46
|
|
|
Supradog posted:
I see people on the XJ forums slathering them with RTV and then putting some heat shrink tubing on them: https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/carb-boot-repair-heat-shrink.47887/
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 08:47
|
|
|
Ooh, thanks for the tip 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 12:55
|
|
|
I had a really bad day. I was excited to finish the kickstart installation. Got up early and went through the instructions and youtubes and everything to make sure I was ready to wrap it all up. I assembled everything impeccably. Went through the engine three times pointing at every bolt and making sure it was tight and torqued. Locktited all the new bolts. Added oil and coolant and wheeled it out of the shed. Turned the key, gave it choke and a kick and it fired up like a dream. For all of 30 seconds before it went TICK TICK TICK CLUNK. And now I’m the proud owner of a 3” gaping hole where some part of the kickstart gear grenaded itself through the magnesium housing. Not even on the case cover, but the main engine body. You know what, I’m fine if I get poo poo for adding unnecessary doo-dads to my bike and it won’t make me mad because tbh you’re right — I’d still have a working bike if I didn’t — but I won’t apologize for wanting to do fun stuff in the garage in the offseason. I’m not even angry that I have to spend a bunch of money to rebuild or replace an engine now. I’ll treat it like a learning experience like I do everything else. What I AM angry about is that I have NO loving CLUE what I did wrong. I literally — LITERALLY — went through the instructions three times to verify. I just can’t figure it out. I am numb with confusion. Anyway, I’m going to stop posting in the bike threads for a while because tbh I’m a little shook. I fell in love with the DRZ and virtually destroyed it all in the same month. I’m going to start reading up on engine work and I’ll be back in the question thread, but.. yeah. Bad day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 23:57
|
|
|
That loving blows. And I sure hope that no one here would be enough of an rear end in a top hat to get all smug about making mods or whatever. Sometimes poo poo happens. I blew a hole in a piston in my CL350 probably by setting the timing wrong (though I still don't know for sure) and, well, poo poo happens. I rebuilt the engine and it runs just fine now, with slightly overbored cylinders and a new electronic ignition so I don't have to deal with timing again. Major suckage, but on the plus side it is not actually that hard to rebuild an engine when there isn't severe damage (e.g. spun bearings or whatever, the hole in the case just means you get a new case. Or find a fabricator to weld a patch in and yolo it). And you have the whole winter to do it!
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 00:12
|
|
|
I don’t think anyones going to jump on you for modding your bike. Lots of people put kickstarters on DRZ’s, it’s nothing for someone to get huffy about The fact that it ran fine for 30 seconds and then grenaded makes me think that something wasn’t tightened down and it worked it’s way loose? Where is the hole in the case and can you tell what punched the hole? That will be a good indicator of what did it. Also, hit up thumpertalk forums to see if anyone is selling a whole engine. Places like procycle or MRD may have some engines or know where you can get one as well. Probably easier to just get a whole motor if it blew the crankcase out
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
Ah thanks yeah, no I’m not thinking anyone here will actually come out and be a dick about it, I think we all get wanting to do fun stuff. Though the fact that I destroyed my engine makes this very prescient: Jazzzzz posted:on one hand, good for you for not being afraid to just tear into stuff to learn how it goes together not a jab at jazzzzz, i know he wasn’t being nasty The gash is exactly where the kickstart idler gear is and I think after burning through TT I didn’t tension the idler spring correctly or something. It definitely grenaded the kickstart stopper pin out of the case, along with a sizeable chunk of the case itself, like they show in a bunch of gory photos. Anyway I’m ultra bummed but honestly whatever. The biggest disappointment is that I have to wait for a bottom end to show up. There’s one on eBay from an 04 in Quebec that doesn’t look awful but to be 100% honest I am really really really finished with bike stuff for the next few days. My plan of attack is probably going to be to take a few days off, relax, clean up the workshop because I basically just said gently caress IT and walked out. Compose myself, calmly start to pull the bike apart so I can take the engine out. Once it’s out I can figure out exactly how bad it is. Right now I can’t budge the clutch basket so I can’t even disassemble it in-situ which is probably not a great sign, but could just be some metal chunk caught in a gear. I guess once I get to that stage I’ll start to take photos and make an effortpost in the questions thread on rebuilding it. ….. and gently caress, I still WANT the kickstart. I wonder how badly the actual KS bits are broken and how much can be salvaged :|
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:01
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:That loving blows
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:07
|
|
|
I'm sorry man. Anyone who tells you they've never botched something up is lying to you. Take some time and regroup.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:21
|
|
|
Fwiw I think that's about as productive a reaction as anyone should be expected to have in that situation We are none of us saints
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
I'll echo my sentiments. Ive learned a few hard lessons over the years which is why engine work scares me. Other things are more forgiving. If you miss one small thing on the engine, well you're now familiar with the results. Ive got myself into a few situations of trying to do one little thing that should take 5 minutes and having it explode into a huge full weekend endeavor. On my 4runner, my inlaws bought us a blackhawks license plate holder. Went to put it on and snapped the head off one of the license plate screws. It ended up being a full weekend of trying to remove it without completely loving up the paint/etc. Another was after I put new shocks on the 4runner. I thought for sure I would gently caress something up with the coilovers or something. Nope. When putting my skid plates back on, I snapped the head off one of the bolts. It took all weekend of trying to unfuck it but I eventually punch hammered the bolt all the way out and saved the threads. The most recent was when I was trying to do a valve clearance check/adjustment on my WR. When I took the top cover off, one of the C shape retaining clips fell into the open case where the timing chain is. I nearly poo poo my pants thinking I needed to open my engine and possibly gently caress everything up just to get a simple piece of metal back out. I used a screwdriver with an extending magnet and actually fished it out. Ive also blown a few fuses by soldering at 3am when I was half asleep. poo poo happens. I know the feeling but just take a step back and regroup when you're mentally prepared for it later. Its better it happened in your garage than out on some trail somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
Aaah gently caress, I was getting pumped for you about that kicker. I bet you won’t have to look too hard or spend too much to find a trashed engine, or at least one that’s trashed in the right places. Take the whole engine out of the frame, get it up on the bench, and start taking it apart. Get some gallon, quart, and pint ziplock bags and a few Tupperwares. Get some masking tape and label everything as it comes off, seal it carefully, and put it somewhere safe. Take pictures of everything, especially if it looks damaged. When you’ve gotten it torn down, you’ll have a good idea of everything that was damaged and a list of stuff that needs replacing. If you’re methodical and document the process well, you’ll know everything about that engine by the time it’s parts. ADVRider classifieds can be a great source for Suzuki thumper parts, I’ve picked up various DR350 and 650 parts on there and seen lots of DRZ stuff. Keep posting about it in here, there’s a bunch of DRZ owners. I know cursedshitbox has spent some substantial time inside at least one of those engines. Fuckin sucks though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
Maybe this won’t make you feel better but maybe you can laugh at this man’s misfortune. Guy Martin talking about the time his Rolls Royce Merlin from a Spitfire took off in the garage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEMpREO-TY
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
gently caress me, dude.  I have lost track of the number of times I've torn into something for one reason or another and had it go sideways, which is why I made that post. Like Gorson said, we've all done it. Upside: you'll be a pro at teardown/reassembly of that motor when this is all said and done, and you won't be afraid to work on it in the future.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:48
|
|
|
Thanks dudes. I didn’t want to turn this into a pity party post but I’m thankful for the feedback. Not going to lie, it feels bad but after the initial “oh gently caress I destroyed an engine” shock wore off I’m mostly zen about it. I didn’t get hurt, the engine didn’t shrapnel in my face, nothing burst into a giant ball of fire, and tomorrow is another day. It sounds stupid but I am getting somewhat excited to flip this into a learning experience. It’s going to suck because it costs money but ok whatever that’s a hobby for you. Just means I can’t buy some other stupid tech gizmo for a few months. I want to document the process of postmortem and teardown because I think it’ll be a fun way to share my findings, but also because it’ll be a good way to do what you mentioned and to organize E V E R Y T H I N G during the teardown like it’s some kind of forensics investigation. I’ll definitely be back after a little cooldown.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:I want to document the process of postmortem and teardown because I think it’ll be a fun way to share my findings, but also because it’ll be a good way to do what you mentioned and to organize E V E R Y T H I N G during the teardown like it’s some kind of forensics investigation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 03:30
|
|
|
Sounds like an opportunity to stick a big bore kit on… you’re taking the entire thing apart, so why not?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
poo poo man, I know that feeling when you just have to quit and reschedule a project because of all the poo poo that went down. My only advice would be to order all the replacement parts now if you can, because having to wait for parts when you finally muster up the motivation to work on it again is THE WORST.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 10:23
|
|
|
^^^ All good man. I’m going to do a postmortem first and see how much I need to buy or if things can be sourced etc. The one thing I learned in all my DRZ adventures so far is that economies of scale when it comes to shipping are GOOD when you’re in Canada. It’s easily 1:2 or 1:1 shipping to price of actual item being shipped for small parts so the sooner I can come up with a BOM and start sourcing things the better. I don’t want to put off ordering anything but I also want to make sure I’m as thorough as I can with the postmortem before I hit buy on anything. I honestly don’t think I’ll start buying things until early 2022 which means I may or may not be able to get the DRZ back on the road in time for riding season to start but I’ll just leave that as a rough goal. I do have another bike so I won’t be missing out on cool crisp March/April rides in a snowsuit. Horse Clocks posted:Sounds like an opportunity to stick a big bore kit on… you’re taking the entire thing apart, so why not? Long term I think I probably might try this (because I love doing things), but honestly I’m very much an amateur mechanic (as this thread proves out) so I mean just being completely blunt when I say I’ll probably have my hands full learning about rebuilding to OEM specs, not complicating things. Also an attempt to keep things down, assuming I tear into the engine and the top end still looks to be in great shape. Don’t worry though, I’m by no means through bolting weird aftermarket stuff to my DRZ. Thread content for YEARS to come at this point. I’m going to try to video the teardown process to at least entertain myself. Think of me like the no talent, no charisma, no clue version of Mustie1. OK anyway, someone post something GOOD they did with their bike — let’s leave the DRZ horror show bad vibes behind us. I’m kind of over it after a good night’s sleep and don’t want to bring the mood of the thread down any further. I really do appreciate the pats on the back, probably helped me get over it way quicker. I’ll spin off my teardown and rebuild into a separate thread if the content is good, or just post updates here if it’s not  some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Nov 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 12:31
|
|
|
If you need to solicit opinions on if your brand new looking clutch plates are worn out or not and then blew a hole in your engine installing a kickstarter... maybe involve a professional? Or maybe the time for that has gone and just keep documenting your exploits
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:31
|
|
|
That would be the mature and sensible thing to do. Which is not what I will be doing until I come to an impasse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 14:17
|
|
|
500excf type r posted:Or maybe the time for that has gone and just keep documenting your exploits It's not going to get any more broken unless he accidentally thermites it or something E: no offense marty
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
don't worry marty you'll have it fixed before I even get off my rear end and clean one more caliper piston on my project bike
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 17:05
|
|
|
Phy posted:E: no offense marty Never underestimate my ability to do something wrong, but at least I'll learn from it either way I mean I've taken something away from every stupid question and dumb mistake I've made and feel much more confident. Definitely a TON of stupid questions to come that will collectively make everyone ask why I'm allowed near power tools in the first place, so stay tuned 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
We were assembling a basket case 1st gen CB750 chopper at the shop once and hooked the oil lines up backwards, seized the motor. Ended up rebuilding the entire thing down to the crank. That's just one of the normal bike disasters, the race bike ones were worse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 19:46
|
|
|
And to think this all started because you were worried about scratching some plastics 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
The ultimate in irony would have been the DRZ grenading itself and throwing a chunk of metal through the Ninja 650 parked two feet away
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 19:58
|
|
|
Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:We were assembling a basket case 1st gen CB750 chopper at the shop once and hooked the oil lines up backwards, seized the motor. Ended up rebuilding the entire thing down to the crank. That's just one of the normal bike disasters, the race bike ones were worse. Most people don't realize that 90% of race bikes are 30% zip ties by weight and have an engine made out of multiple different blown up and crashed bikes. Always laugh when someone tells me their bike is an ex race bike as if that's a good thing. The two wheeled version of the ex cop car moron trap.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:The ultimate in irony would have been the DRZ grenading itself and throwing a chunk of metal through the Ninja 650 parked two feet away This is exactly the sort of thing that happens in my life
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
I have this book and think it’s pretty good and helpful. https://www.diymotofix.com/blog/category/four-stroke-rebuild
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
 My father-in-law was down a couple weeks ago so I took advantage of the extra pair of hands and installed heated grips, a powered GPS mount, USB socket in the frunk, battery tender lead, and a center stand on the new bike. Very glad I waited for a second person to try to get the center stand on as Honda uses a pair of springs, one inside the other, and they're no joke to get on. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy they made installing the heated grips and USB socket. There are dummy plugs in the wiring harness and easy securing points for the cabling. Might even make up for the comical number of bolts and fasteners it took to get three pieces of fairing off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
It was a nice day out so I decided what better time to start on a disassembly/postmortem than today. I pulled the plastics and rads but ran into some complications pulling the pipe. Right now I want to pull the pipe but it's fused together. I'm not sure what the best approach here should be. I wanted to detach it from the top end so I wasn't wrenching on the two bolts that hold it in, but now that it's loose I seem to have less leverage than ever to try to wrench it apart. Not certain how to proceed, would love some input. If it really really comes down to it I can just take a sawzall and split the pipe but obviously that's my last resort since then I'm buying a new pipe. Header and bolts. Both seem to be OK. Had a heck of a time getting the inner bolt out but I took it slow and doused it with penetrant so as not to destroy the threads and it seemed to come out fine. I'll definitely want to replace the bolt when it's time to button everything up though. Rusty as heck. Same with the nut that goes on the stud. Very rusty, ready for a replacement. Want to call out that there was NO gasket or crush washer between the header pipe and manifold. I'm presuming this is bad but I guess least of my problems right now.  And these are the joints that I am guessing I should be able to wiggle apart but seem to be parma-fixed together...   I doused them with penetrant and I'm leaving them overnight. At this point in the disassembly time is on my side so I'm happy to just stop when I run into something I'm not comfortable with before proceeding. Bonus bad angle photo of the aftermath. No good way to get a better photo right now, but I'll post plenty more gore once I have the engine out. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:
That certainly looks a bit disastrous. Hopefully the failure is obvious so we can all learn a bit from this. Maybe something not happy in the starter clutch?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 14:20
|
|
|
This should come apart.  Then you can just pull the rest of it out with some wiggling.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 14:29
|
|
|
I'll definitely go back to wiggle the actual muffler and see if I can make progress. Not really sure I have much choice at this point.helno posted:That certainly looks a bit disastrous. Hopefully the failure is obvious so we can all learn a bit from this. Oh it was 100% obvious after a little bit of research. I didn't tighten the kickstart idler gear spring correctly and I guess it just kind of did whatever it wanted until it slammed forward into a retaining bolt and sent a big chunk of magnesium engine case in hundreds of little shards throughout my clutch. There's a REALLY easy way to avoid this specific failure: Jazzzzz posted:"if it ain't broke, don't fix it" some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 15:57
|
|
|
Wrt: removing any kind of pipe or hose (I think you're talking about the radiator hose? Pipes are not rubber and flexible anyway) the key is twist and pull. Works for the exhaust too, though wd40 sprayed in the joints never hurts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Rad hoses came out no problem, the "stainless" pipe just won't come apart is the only real issue now. I'll try twisting more. Will have to re-attach to the manifold since I can't get any purchase on the pipe otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:45
|
|
|
Based on your prior record I'm going to assume you just aren't using anywhere near enough violence. It's a DRZ, violence is almost always the answer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 13:46 |
|
|
FYI that is 100% accurate assessment. I'm going to wrench it until the bike falls over, I do, or I snap the bolts off the exhaust manifold.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 21:14
|
|