|
I feel like something that's easy to misunderstand when trying to wrangle the phantom cloak (though I don't know if this is a specific problem with some folks in the thread, or if it even makes a difference anyways) is that if you're trying to hide on a ceiling or wall with spider grapple when using the phantom cloak, is that like, if you jump there, making noise and leaving your last known point where you're trying to hide, there's higher likelyhood that the emmi will climb up to try and examine the your hiding spot and run into you, making the whole effort to try and hide feel pointless. Being cloaked means that the emmi won't hear you, so if you cloak and THEN jump onto the wall/ceiling, then the emmi won't catch on that it should try looking where you're trying to hide, because your last known position is different. This distinction definitely tripped me but a few times, but once I realized what I was doing wrong, it all clicked into place, and the phantom cloak felt like a much more useful tool in the end.
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:52 |
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Why would you double back? Because multiple people in this thread alone have talked about accidentally running into a corner?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
So if you purposefully avoid the E-tanks, does every boss just one-shot you? Or is there some sort of weird damage scaling where having E-tanks helps, but not as much as having 100 extra HP should? It just seems like all the bosses do so much damage. e: why is this boss making me do Flappy Bird? Red Minjo fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Nov 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgTzCY1xX1k
skaianDestiny fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 18:54
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:It feels exactly like other metriods the thing people are compkaining about is that zero mission and super metroid (and prime ofc) are way more atmospheric then dread. the atmosphere is extremely important to a metroid game and an integral part of that is music.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Thanks, I saw some speed runs doing this and didn't get any explanation on how it worked.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
So as of a month ago I hadn't played any Metroid games and, since I had access to Super Metroid through the Switch SNES app, decided to change that. I enjoyed it so much I went on to play Zero Mission, II (original Gameboy version), Fusion, and now Dread. I just finished Dread and I think it might be my favorite. It feels like it combines the best aspects of the others, with the story focus and atmosphere of Fusion, but with a map that's much more open for exploration, only not so much that I can be wandering around with no clue where to go next (like I was in Super several times). I know the EMMIs are controversial, but I loved them; both the anticipation of knowing you have to pass through an EMMI zone to get to the next part of the map, and the actual design of the encounters: the sounds, the way they move, the way your controller starts rumbling with a heartbeat when you're hiding from them, they all just worked wonderfully for me to create a great sense of tension. And this is easily the most fun to play on just a minute-by-minute basis. The movement feels smooth and constantly under my control, and the combat is fast-paced and engaging. These are also by far my favorite bosses of the series; the other games felt like a race between me and the boss over who takes more damage first (Phantoon  ), but these are all about mastering how the boss works, and when I can get through even a phase without taking damage it feels great and really adds to the sense of progression. It seemed like for every single boss I went from "I'm never beating this" to "gently caress you, I'm a badass  " in minutes. The final boss probably gave me the most trouble, and I'm really glad I read about the power bomb trick in phase 3. Even with that I ended up winning that one by the skin of my teeth, with 7 energy left (mostly from messing up a couple of counters in the final phase).I really hope the Prime games eventually make it to some sort of modern platform, because I'd love to play those at some point. Edit: Also final stats: just a hair under 10.5 hours, 68% items.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
Just beat Dread - I can't remember any part of the OST beside the Brinstar theme and the final boss. - Morph ball abilities/attacks still feel like glorified keys I only use to reach collectibles. The game has 2 or 3 cool morph ball puzzles but I was spending as little time as possible as a ball otherwise. Having to morph through a gap in the wall every few seconds gets pretty annoying when your human form is so much more fluid and mobile. Power bombs work well in the final battle and they clear rooms handily but you get them 5 minutes before the end so... - WHY ISN'T THE SPEED BOOSTER AUTOMATIC ANYMORE - EMMIs felt more like a repetitive annoyance than a threat. Good game overall and I had fun, but I don't think I'll play it again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 21:55
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Because multiple people in this thread alone have talked about accidentally running into a corner? The EMMI zones are designed so that dead ends are very rare. There are a few that force you to hide on the ceiling if you're being chased and you run there, and I'm not a fan of those, but the zones are otherwise filled with loops and interconnected halls you can use to turn yourself around during a chase without having to run back towards the EMMI. I went in not expecting to like the EMMI sections. I generally hate instant death chases and forced stealth sections. I hated the parts of Fusion that made you run from the SA-X, honestly. But I like the EMMI sections. I like that they're designed as dangerous sprints from entrance to exit that you can panic and run through and usually find your way where you need to go after a couple tries. I like that pickups hidden in EMMI areas are generally hidden in ways that you don't notice them on your first dash through, so you don't feel obligated to treat them like exploration areas while the EMMI is still patrolling. I like that the stakes are deceptively low because each sprint is relatively short and you always checkpoint automatically before the EMMI gate, but the game keeps you tense right to the end by dangling an extremely tight QTE in front of you rather than killing you right away. I like that it's not that long progressing through each area before you find a route to the Central Unit and get to destroy that area's EMMI, freeing the entire zone to explore at your leisure rather than keeping EMMI zones as permanent chase areas. I like that there's ton of Dread that doesn't have anything to do with the EMMIs. I feel like they are used judiciously.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
Speed Booster isn't automatic because you'd be activating it literally everywhere because screens in general are larger than in previous games, and it would be annoying as gently caress to be constantly going into a speed booster state with zero control about it. Automatic speed booster worked in the GBA games because of the smaller screen real estate and how there's fewer buttons to work with to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 00:17
|
|
|
Yeah that's fair. Still hurts my thumb 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
You don't have to hold the thumb down. One click will do the job
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 00:33
|
|
|
XavierGenisi posted:Speed Booster isn't automatic because you'd be activating it literally everywhere because screens in general are larger than in previous games, and it would be annoying as gently caress to be constantly going into a speed booster state with zero control about it. Automatic speed booster worked in the GBA games because of the smaller screen real estate and how there's fewer buttons to work with to begin with. I honestly didn't even like it in the GBA games, found myself periodically stopping or jumping just to make sure I wasn't about to launch myself faster than I could see things up ahead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 00:49
|
|
|
Related to all of that, I'm really glad the Speed Booster noise is more muted than it has been in other games while retaining that sense of Samus is going FAST.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 02:03
|
|
|
I just beat the Ghavoran EMMI and I have a lot of thoughts. I don’t know if it’s just me getting used to the game or what, but this feels like the first fair one after the first two? Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t, and I’m also bad at Metroid games. But it was the first one where I felt like hiding via morph ball + phantom cloak + hidey hole was the obvious strategy, as well as intentionally scouting for a long hallway for omega beam stuff. Maybe all this was obvious earlier, but I would have loved to see a cutscene to drill the point home. Maybe a better Phantom Cloak EMMI cutscene? Hide on the ceiling, hide in a morph ball hole. Try hiding while spotted and your only hope is speed or a hard-to-time parry? Spell it out early. Bob Socko fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 04:05
|
|
|
ate poo poo on live tv posted:the thing people are compkaining about is that zero mission and super metroid (and prime ofc) are way more atmospheric then dread. the atmosphere is extremely important to a metroid game and an integral part of that is music. I wonder if they're going to try a Super Metroid remake at some point or leave well enough alone? Or do something REAL crazy like release GBA games on the Nintendo Switch so people can play Zero Mission and Fusion without an emulator or buying 20 year old games on the secondhand market
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 07:19
|
|
|
Quotey posted:Ah, you just gotta accidentally figure it out during gameplay or know a bunch of shinespark stuff (including things new to this game). It's possible the chaining is in the tutorial video I guess, but I can't check now. This new knowledge made another shinespark puzzle way easier than when I solved it the first time, lol. It‘s really impressive how the devs put in not only the intended sequence breaks, but also different ways to solve the shinespark puzzles. I assume it‘s intended, as the „harder“ way most of the time also just times exactly right.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 09:18
|
|
|
Bob Socko posted:as well as intentionally scouting for a long hallway for omega beam stuff. The thing I did in my first playthrough wasn't really scouting at all, it seemed like the answer was usually in the first or second room out of the brain fight. except the wave beam one that made you do an obstacle course and then upon successful completion gave you a perfect straight shot that you didn't even have to adjust your targeting to go light it up
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 12:23
|
|
|
Re-do Super in Dread’s engine, maybe update a few things here and there, call it a day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 12:51
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:Re-do Super in Dread’s engine, maybe update a few things here and there, call it a day.  You can save more animals over the course of the game and you can pet them when you visit your ship. GOTYAY
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2021 20:32
|
|
|
Endgame Spoilers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlq7xSlNzY8 Assepoester fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 00:44
|
|
|
Playing Dread got me in the mood to do a full-on Metroid marathon from beginning to end, so I'll be posting thoughts of each one when I get through them. I'm aiming to see the best ending(s) in all of them too, whether they're time-based or completion-based (or both), and not using guides or emulator tools (save states etc) Starting with... Metroid! NES, 1986 This... was not nearly as much of a hassle to navigate nor as obtuse with its secrets & critical path progression as popular discourse had me believe. The one thing that I think kinda really sucks rear end in NES Metroid is starting with only 30 HP after death or password load, because farming health is a godawful chore. Do not make my mistake of picking up that ceiling e-tank in early Brinstar, because you are going to want it for the each refill before Tourian. Re-farming health for each death to MB sucks so bad. But everything else? Pretty much fine. Difficulty's a little steep - it's a NES game - and some of the movement is a bit awkward - it's a NES game - but otherwise I had way less trouble than I expected. The maps are fairly small so they're not actually all that bad for keeping your bearings. I got disoriented a couple times but found my way back to familiar ground fairly quickly. Plus there's always the nuclear option of intentionally dying to respawn back at the area elevator to start exploring from familiar ground. Maybe all that dark souls has vastly improved my mental mapping capacity but I didn't find it too arcane and the complaint that "everywhere looks the same" is vastly overrated. They generally don't. There's some reuse but its not terrible. The biggest complaint I see is that you often have to "bomb random walls & floors" to progress. This is kinda true, but honestly? The game actually does a fairly solid job of telegraphing almost all of it. Unreachable enemy? Probably a way down (paging David Jaffe). Dead end? Try morphballing, there's almost always a tunnel. I find that the fact that they so consistently put tunnels in the same places and patterns actually reduces the frustration - there's almost always a tunnel so of course I'm always going to check and I'm almost always going to be rewarded for it. Those 2 missile tanks turned out to be hiding a tunnel to another 3 missile tanks? Sick. In fact, the biggest complaint that progression in Norfair requires bombing a random floor tile in a couple rooms is itself actually pretty well telegraphed - if you're exploring without knowing this you'll eventually find yourself in an empty room that resembles a section of vertical corridor but with no exit other than where you just came from. So you'll bomb around and find the tunnel down out of the room. Pattern established, every single vertical tunnel room in Norfair has a bombable tunnel in the floor on the same tile, even if it terminates in a dead end. Now that you know this you'll be able to find the path forward and also some nice rewards. And if you flip the logic on its head and think to shoot up in one particular similar room, you'll be rewarded with the Screw Attack. gently caress yes. The one secret I think is quite poorly telegraphed is the corridor with the ceiling blocks that can be shot to reveal a hidden path up to the Varia Suit, but maybe you'd notice that this is the only corridor like it in the game, or maybe you'd accidentally shoot it while shooting at the enemy in the room (that's what found it for me). But it's otherwise very easy to miss. I ended up doing three playthroughs of NES Metroid, one regular run in which I found all but 1 ETank and 2 Missile Packs and finished been 5 and 8 hours (Samus helmet removed ending), one "NG+" run where I started working out a fast route and how many etanks/missiles I should pick up for the <1 hour end, which I finished in 3-5 hours. And then 1 last run in the zero suit (or "justin bailey" suit, whatever we're calling it, but I didn't use the password) which I finished in sub 1 hour for the best ending. I think it's really cool that NES Metroid essentially has NG+ runs in which you keep your upgrades but lose your etanks & missiles, it makes working out what you need and where to get them to rush to Kraid & Ridley quickly really fun and quite a different experience to the vanilla playthrough. I understand why its not tenable for other, more structured Metroid games, but I really like that NES Metroid has it. Plus getting to play the whole game in the zero suit is awesome, especially for a game from 1986. I used to not like NES Metroid at all, but I think my opinion's completely flipped on it with this playthrough. It's good. Definitely plenty to improve on in later games, but still very enjoyable as its own thing, if you can tolerate some 80s jank and the loving HP farming. Raylax fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:00
|
|
|
Raylax posted:I used to not like NES Metroid at all, but I think my opinion's completely flipped on it with this playthrough. It's good. Definitely plenty to improve on in later games, but still very enjoyable as its own thing, if your can tolerate some 80s jank and the loving HP farming. honestly i wish there was just a simple romhack that made you respawn with health and/or made the health pickups a bit bigger because it would make metroid nes infinitely more fun. it's my only issue with the game but it is kind of a huge issue. farming back health takes ages because of how low your health starts and how little each pickup grants, and things deal so much damage you just kinda have to farm health.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:honestly i wish there was just a simple romhack that made you respawn with health and/or made the health pickups a bit bigger because it would make metroid nes infinitely more fun. it's my only issue with the game but it is kind of a huge issue. farming back health takes ages because of how low your health starts and how little each pickup grants, and things deal so much damage you just kinda have to farm health. Yeah, that's the one thing I'd change in a heartbeat and really had me reaching towards just going "gently caress it" and making a save state outside tourian. I didn't, but if I'd died to MB another time or two I probably would have. I feel like that's gotta be an easy rom hack too, just set HP to max on repawn rather than 30 (but then I'm not a rom hacker, maybe it's actually a giant pain in the arse). There were other minor frustrations (getting smacked by enemies during door transitions is great fun) but nothing like as bad as the starting HP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
NES Metroid is a lot more forgiving than a lot of people really give it credit for, especially if you are reasonable in 2021 and using a map to know where the missiles and e-tanks are (and where the dead ends are). Even Mother Brain can be cheesed quite a bit if you are willing to do a suicide run to destroy the tubes since they stay destroyed. That said while the Brinstar e-tank is a valid strategy to refill in a pinch for a Tourian run, a mistake I feel a lot people make is thinking that the best way to refill are the enemy spawn tubes rather than the actual metroids in Tourian, the latter give you way more energy and missiles for your buck.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
I actually didn't know the tourian metroids dropped more than regular enemies lol, once I noticed they took several missiles to kill I just froze them and ran past. Yeah, a map's definitely helpful but I did the run specifically to see how doable it is without one (to see how true the claim that you essentially needed a nintendo power sub or similar to get through it back in the day), and didn't actually have much trouble. Missed 3 pick-ups (etank & two missiles) and didn't get lost too much. Definitely doable without.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:57
|
|
|
Raylax posted:I used to not like NES Metroid at all, but I think my opinion's completely flipped on it with this playthrough. It's good. Definitely plenty to improve on in later games, but still very enjoyable as its own thing, if you can tolerate some 80s jank and the loving HP farming. The jank is crippling for me personally. It's just too hard for me to muster the motivation to play NES Metroid when I know that an objectively superior version of it exists that is way more fun to play.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:16
|
|
|
The jank and the lo-fi (but fantastic) music are what give 8-bit metroid it's charm, everyone should play a bit of it just to appreciate how far it's come, but no one should feel compelled to finish it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7gOzDLa8E
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:I think that’s kind of exactly what they wanted you to do actually. it definitely isn’t. the way emmis are introduced to you is by having them see you and forcing you to run away when emmis were demonstrated in official videos the emphasis was put on the chase sequences. the level design encourages you to keep moving. the in-game dialogue and hints heavily emphasize the cloak as a last resort that you can’t rely on constantly. ikanreed posted:That might be mechanically optimal, but I don't think it was the tone Nintendo was aiming to have. if they wanted it to feel like alien isolation they would’ve made it impossible to run away from it once it’s seen you. alien doesn’t have chase sequences, it doesn’t have mobility, if you’re seen by the alien you die. what on earth would make you think that dread was meant to be played like alien Augus fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
I think a contributing factor might be all of the EMMI doors locking when you get spotted. I wonder if that could've been mitigated by ONLY locking the door you've entered through?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
I just realized that Dread didn't pull the classic Metroid trick of a room with fake lava or acid that you drop through. They still do that move of putting an item on the opposite side of a hallway with break away blocks in front of it though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:I just realized that Dread didn't pull the classic Metroid trick of a room with fake lava or acid that you drop through. They still do that move of putting an item on the opposite side of a hallway with break away blocks in front of it though. There is at least one missile tank that tricks you by putting it on the other side of lava, but there are actually breakable blocks to get to it. In fact, there are a bunch of items where it looks like you need a later upgrade to get it (morph ball, power bombs, etc.) but have somewhat secret ways to get them early. I kinda liked that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:I just realized that Dread didn't pull the classic Metroid trick of a room with fake lava or acid that you drop through. Isn't that literally a classic Metroid trick though, as in it's only the original Metroid and its Zero Mission remake that do that?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure Super Metroid has it too. You drop through one of those red flower things that try to eat you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 03:20
|
|
|
We just broke 1:11 in the speedrunning department. 1:10:59.8. Dread is officially faster than Fusion now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 03:32
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:I'm pretty sure Super Metroid has it too. You drop through one of those red flower things that try to eat you. Super Metroid definitely has fake lava, I’m trying to remember if Fusion does. lol I just played it a few weeks ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 03:43
|
|
|
Blackbelt Bobman posted:Super Metroid definitely has fake lava, I’m trying to remember if Fusion does. lol I just played it a few weeks ago. I seem to remember Metroid 2 doing it as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 04:15
|
|
|
Blackbelt Bobman posted:Super Metroid definitely has fake lava, I’m trying to remember if Fusion does. lol I just played it a few weeks ago. Do you remember where in Super? I've gone from replaying Super to replaying AM2R lately and fake lava doesn't ring a bell for me in either, but I've been wrong before.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 05:40
|
|
|
Maybe the fake spikes leading to Draygon?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 06:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:52 |
|
|
Late Spooky Mission Hack this year https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6320/ Also bonus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N7ye4AIDRE&t=21s
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 12:33
|
|