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Mix. posted:i feel like i shouldn't have to explain the concept of people pulling for characters that are fun regardless of how strong they are or aren't, so i won't That's not what I'm asking. Why are there only two tiers?
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Nov 10, 2021 00:41
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I think this discussion would be a lot less tense if people just said what they think instead of trying to have a Socratic dialogue.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:43
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Zhongli needs a shirtless skin
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Nov 10, 2021 00:47
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Nyoro posted:Is Albedo worth it for a Hu Tao team tho
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Nov 10, 2021 00:47
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if the next two skins are just women again i swear to god i'll keep playing this game and hoping they pay attention to the men
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Nov 10, 2021 00:50
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the next two are ning and keqing apparently
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Nov 10, 2021 00:51
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Is it coming off as tense? To me it's mostly people avoiding my questions and trying to be snarky.
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Nov 10, 2021 00:51
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Tanreall posted:Is it coming off as tense? To me it's mostly people avoiding my questions and trying to be snarky. People aren't trying to own you the misunderstanding is thinking that the term whale meta is not derogatory/flippant
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Nov 10, 2021 00:56
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The trick is to not pay attention to ~the meta~ if you're already getting all the rewards doing you, especially if it's a cool hipster comp no one uses.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:00
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My C1 Hu Tao is just not working for me for some reason. She's now the same level with the same quality artifacts as my other characters, with a R3 Dragon's Bane, but I either take forever to kill stuff, or get her killed when I try to use her. Is it because I don't have Xingqiu? I've been trying to use her with various combination of Noelle, XL, Kaeya, and Fischl. Or do I just need to get more used to "click, click, hold-click, press opposite direction and right-click"?
Boat Stuck fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 01:00
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Tanreall posted:Is it coming off as tense? To me it's mostly people avoiding my questions and trying to be snarky. Sure, I just mean that even if you think so it would be better to write out your position and leave it. This way isn't really accomplishing anything.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:00
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mycot posted:People aren't trying to own you the misunderstanding is thinking that the term whale meta is not derogatory/flippant I could see this but the original posts weren't using whale speed running meta in a derogatory way either. Edit: Redmark posted:Sure, I just mean that even if you think so it would be better to write out your position and leave it. This way isn't really accomplishing anything. I did clarify my position in one of my posts. But there's no harm in doing it again. There's more than one meta. Whale speed running meta isn't the most important meta for this thread since we have no speed running whales here and the majority of people are F2P or low spenders. Tanreall fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 01:01
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Radical posted:the next two are ning and keqing apparently i heard this and there being nothing more about it than words and maybe one of those crushed-rear end fake screenshots is enough for me to have some disbelief
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Nov 10, 2021 01:01
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i only believed it at the time because the leaker predicted a bunch of other stuff that was true iirc (but theres a ton of random leaks so i might be mixing them up with someone else)
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Nov 10, 2021 01:17
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Boat Stuck posted:My C1 Hu Tao is just not working for me for some reason. She's now the same level with the same quality artifacts as my other characters, with a R3 Dragon's Bane, but I either take forever to kill stuff, or get her killed when I try to use her. Is it because I don't have Xingqiu? I've been trying to use her with various combination of Noelle, XL, Kaeya, and Fischl. Or do I just need to get more used to "click, click, hold-click, press opposite direction and right-click"? If you don't have XQ or Mona for hydro application you're missing out on a lot of damage potential, especially when using Dragon's Bane. Without hydro I would use another weapon if you have it.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:28
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All this whale meta talk got me curious and found this gem among the abyss 12 speedruns I'm almost surprised that this even clears one chamber in that time but doing full clear under 3 minutes with this is insane.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:40
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Tanreall posted:That's not what I'm asking. Why are there only two tiers? Go back and read my original sentiment, the fact of the matter is it's impossible to rank characters according to how fun they are to play because different people like different things and click with different characters. 90% of this game is beatable with pretty much any comp loadout given enough gear/artifacts so it boiling down to what feels good to play means you CAN'T rank them that way, this is a thing multiple people besides myself have tried to tell you already and you're either too stubborn to grasp that or you're just trolling for someone to bicker with in which case whoops I guess I played right into your hand. The reason that "whale meta" is the only alternate ranking method that has any kind of hard ranking is because that's the last 10% of the game where character's power levels comparatively actually make a difference (and even then, not THAT much of a difference, considering some of the abyss runs people have pulled out of their rear end before), so treating that 10% like it represents the full 100% is a baffling decision and is why multiple people have pointed out you are misinterpreting things there is that direct enough for you
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Nov 10, 2021 01:42
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Tanreall posted:I could see this but the original posts weren't using whale speed running meta in a derogatory way either. I'm kinda new to this game, but in most games there's just a theorycrafted mathematical best (i.e. The Meta) and everyone who cares to optimize just tries to emulate it as best they can. Everyone else playing casual just remains ignorant and happy. Just because you're doing something other than the mathed-out best possible thing doesn't mean you're creating a separate meta, it just means you're taking a reasonable alternative option given your resources. I've seen plenty of meta guides in games like FFXIV that have caveats along the lines of like "well if you don't have a static raid team and you have no hope of getting the weapon from the raid, x or y weapon is a reasonable alternative". The only difference between that and this is that in Genshin the main currency isn't time, it's... currency and luck. efb kinda.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:45
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Republicans posted:If you don't have XQ or Mona for hydro application you're missing out on a lot of damage potential, especially when using Dragon's Bane. Without hydro I would use another weapon if you have it. Sigh, I guess my Hu Tao will be warming up the bench until XQ comes back to Paimon's Shop.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:47
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Boat Stuck posted:Sigh, I guess my Hu Tao will be warming up the bench until XQ comes back to Paimon's Shop. You could run her as monopyro with Bennett and a different spear, but if Dragon's Bane is all you've got then yeah you've kinda hit a wall for now.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:53
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Boat Stuck posted:Sigh, I guess my Hu Tao will be warming up the bench until XQ comes back to Paimon's Shop. On the plus side you can also use her as a support DPS with any cryo applicator. That's how I used her for a long time with a prototype starglitter before I had any good weapons for her. Now you can also give her The Catch which anyone can get for free. Baiard posted:You could run her as monopyro with Bennett and a different spear, but if Dragon's Bane is all you've got then yeah you've kinda hit a wall for now. I also did that with a C6 Xiangling for a bit since the game refused to give me any good crimson witch pieces but plenty of lavawalker. Republicans fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 01:55
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Republicans posted:On the plus side you can also use her as a support DPS with any cryo applicator. That's how I used her for a long time with a prototype starglitter before I had any good weapons for her. Now you can also give her The Catch which anyone can get for free. XL is using my Catch, and I absolutely need XL for... everything, pretty much. Well, while I wait for XQ, who should I build up next? Jean Diona Sucrose Bennett Sayu Ideally I want an alternative to Noelle as my carry, but it doesn't seem like any of the above would be a huge upgrade as a main DPS.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:00
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Those are all supports, so Bennett is the logical choice. But pick whoever you think looks the coolest.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:18
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Boat Stuck posted:XL is using my Catch, and I absolutely need XL for... everything, pretty much.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:25
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Mix. posted:Go back and read my original sentiment, the fact of the matter is it's impossible to rank characters according to how fun they are to play because different people like different things and click with different characters. 90% of this game is beatable with pretty much any comp loadout given enough gear/artifacts so it boiling down to what feels good to play means you CAN'T rank them that way, this is a thing multiple people besides myself have tried to tell you already and you're either too stubborn to grasp that or you're just trolling for someone to bicker with in which case whoops I guess I played right into your hand. I'm not out here trying to get into an argument. I had a problem with the post suggesting whale speed running meta was the only important meta. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position. My disagreement with only two tiers is that it's an over simplification of how people are experiencing the game. We have posts in this thread where people who have been playing since release are having to use certain teams to continue getting 36 stars in the abyss. We have new players and returning players looking to roll for power to help clear the abyss or get the last remaining stars. Then we have players who have been clearing for a long time as F2Ps or low spenders who might have multiple different teams that could clear with 36 stars. These players are all at different tiers in the game to me. Funneling them all into a single tier of Whatever's Fun seems like a mistake when they are probably looking for different things from their rolls. Shere posted:I'm kinda new to this game, but in most games there's just a theorycrafted mathematical best (i.e. The Meta) and everyone who cares to optimize just tries to emulate it as best they can. Everyone else playing casual just remains ignorant and happy. This is where the tiers of players come in: new players, veteran players, F2Ps, low spenders, whales, ect. The meta math of speed running whales doesn't work for players who don't have C6 5 star characters and R5 5 star weapons. Without those you can't play the same way and the encounters will have different quirks you need to account for. So, if you need to change the math to find what is best with say C0 5 stars, Cx 4stars, or you're doing a challenge by only bringing one or two characters per side that changes what is best. These will have a meta all their own.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:34
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Holy poo poo I had no idea how much faster my recently acquired Razor was at mining than other claymore users. I was using Sayu and even her normal attacks do less than him. This is complete bullshit.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:46
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It is odd that claymore users have different speeds. That's part of why I enjoyed Diluc so much before; he'd 3-hit mining nodes instead of 4+ like others I tried. However my current group has Zhongli in it so he just detonates the entire patch at once and it's hard to go back to manual mining now lol
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Nov 10, 2021 02:54
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Razor's hold E is also good at clearing mining nodes. He's just a Good Boy.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:55
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I just started playing again this a couple months ago after playing for a couple weeks at launch. I am starting to hit a bit of a wall as I quest through the next series of quests (just finished Liyue quest line). I figured I would reach out here to help as you goons seem pretty adept at this gacha game. Currently I am at AR35 and farming weapon ascension and talent materials. My current party I am running with is Diluc, Barbara, Fischl and XQ. I have been tempted to build out a couple of the other units I have such as Xiangling and Kokomi but I read that I should be focusing on getting a solid team to 80 before I spread all my mats too thin. The characters I have acquired are below. I've been rolling on the Hu Tao banner with my daily primogems but no luck yet except for a couple Diona's and a Thoma. Diluc has a protoype archaic, Fischl is using The Stringless and XQ is using Protype Rancour so far. I don't have any 5* weapons yet. As a F2P/Low Spender: Should I be rolling with a different team comp? What should I be focusing on in terms of spending my daily resin on other than leveling/ascending my primary team? Thanks gacha goons! 
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Nov 10, 2021 03:03
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You already know this, but the end of the event sucks rear end
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Nov 10, 2021 03:10
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Nyoro posted:Yeah I was asking as somebody with Hutao / C6 XQ, C1 Zhong, and a perpetually empty 4th slot since I never know who to put there Fischl is not a good choice for the flex slot. She interrupts your Hu tao uptime with her bird, or leaves it out. I'd run Sucrose, and swirl XQ's hydro and also be a battery for everyone else with her double skill. Even better if she has Sacrificial Fragments. yes, this isn't the pyro debuff people hope for, but XQ's burst still hits hard, and doing Hu Tao's attack -> attack-> charge attack will take full advantage of that. I've been having a blast with that. I also run Ningugang for the geo resonance, and she can also generate a bit of energy with her C2, and she (and zhong) is really good for talking apart enemies with a geo shield or fire/hydro immunity. Boat Stuck posted:My C1 Hu Tao is just not working for me for some reason. She's now the same level with the same quality artifacts as my other characters, with a R3 Dragon's Bane, but I either take forever to kill stuff, or get her killed when I try to use her. Is it because I don't have Xingqiu? I've been trying to use her with various combination of Noelle, XL, Kaeya, and Fischl. Or do I just need to get more used to "click, click, hold-click, press opposite direction and right-click"? Without XQ, you'll want a deathmatch on her. Also, she starts to shine when her skills are 7 or higher. She uses all 3 of her talents, which all compliment each other well.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:14
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Tanreall posted:I'm not out here trying to get into an argument. I had a problem with the post suggesting whale speed running meta was the only important meta. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position. None of those other things are metagames, though, they're just... the game. It is actually literally correct to say that whale speedrunning is the only meta, and even then only barely, because the game doesn't have PvP. ...Well, okay, there are two metas, but you can't play windtrace right now. Yes, this is at best tangential to the actual argument going on, and yes, I am aware that trying to get the internet to use the word metagame properly is very much a losing battle. Fake edit: I guess strategizing your pulls based on future leaks/datamines/whatever would be considered a form of metagaming, but that's also not relevant to what's being discussed. One could also argue that gacha mechanics are inherently metagame-y by nature, I suppose.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:18
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So is the whales vs. waifus debate like genshin impacts version of tryhards vs. funhavers
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Nov 10, 2021 03:27
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Richlove posted:I just started playing again this a couple months ago after playing for a couple weeks at launch. I am starting to hit a bit of a wall as I quest through the next series of quests (just finished Liyue quest line). I figured I would reach out here to help as you goons seem pretty adept at this gacha game. Focus on Diluc for now, he's where most of your damage will come from. Diona is better for your party than Barbara and pairing Fischl with Diluc won't work out long term because the Overload reaction is not very strong. Maybe contemplate bringing in Xiangling for the pyro resonance.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:44
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Cattail Prophet posted:None of those other things are metagames, though, they're just... the game. It is actually literally correct to say that whale speedrunning is the only meta, and even then only barely, because the game doesn't have PvP. ...Well, okay, there are two metas, but you can't play windtrace right now. Most challenge runs could be considered a metagame. But we are specifically using it to refer to what is the best strategy here. There's no reason why you can't have a best strategy for different power levels.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:46
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Where are the resources for people that want to min/max?
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Nov 10, 2021 03:53
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Richlove posted:I just started playing again this a couple months ago after playing for a couple weeks at launch. I am starting to hit a bit of a wall as I quest through the next series of quests (just finished Liyue quest line). I figured I would reach out here to help as you goons seem pretty adept at this gacha game. It's important to focus on one core group as you level up, but you're not quite at the point where it's onerous to try different characters out. Think of it more like, you want your core group at 80/80/80/80 instead of every possible character at 60. At AR35 the max level is 70 so you should try getting four characters to that point. Getting all your characters to level 20 ascension for the bonus Acquaint Fate reward is a good idea. Diluc is the main damage dealer and that's fine for now. Having Fischl and Xingqui levelled up is great too since they're meta characters. Swapping Fischl for Xiangling/Thoma might be better since Overload sucks, as Miles said. Getting those characters to 60/70 and their relevant talents levelled to 6 should be a priority. Kokomi is essentially a better Barbara, so if you think you might want to spend resources on getting her on your team it'd be better overall, if a slight setback in terms of resources. Kokomi also makes running a permafreeze team easy, which will help your struggles with difficulty for most content. Freezing enemies is a very safe way to play. If you want to build a freeze team, you'll need Kaeya, Kokomi, Rosaria, and Diona. You can swap out Diona for Fischl for more damage and the cost of safety. If you can get 34 starglitter from your rolls, buy Bennett from the Paimon Bargain shop before he leaves. This might be difficult if you're just starting out, but you'll have to get lucky from banners if you miss him when he swaps out for another set of characters. Baiard fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 03:54
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Agoat posted:Where are the resources for people that want to min/max? you'd probably want to check out the specific subreddit for the character you want as your carry/main since those are the places where people get into the minute numbers crunching
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Nov 10, 2021 04:00
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Agoat posted:Where are the resources for people that want to min/max? Tenten on youtube and Keqingmains discord and site are good resources. https://library.keqingmains.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/TenTenGaming
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Nov 10, 2021 04:00
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Tanreall posted:Tenten on youtube and Keqingmains discord and site are good resources. That library is awesome, thank you for posting it!
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Nov 10, 2021 04:10
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