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shades of eternity posted:Man want to say this before the reveal. The vampires were a known entity to the Doctor though, even if they were locked off in E-Space (plus the ancient one was a giant), whereas the Sugar Skull Gang seem to be complete unknowns to the Doctor who doesn't have the slightest clue who or what they are. I still think, based on admittedly incredibly little information given so far, they they're from "before" time in the universe, when everything happened all at once forever and never and always and the universe was in "flux", and the Mouri on the Planet Time brought order to the Universe, including creating a linear progression of cause and effect to the universe that gets called "time" (which Rassilon etc later figured out how to traverse and became the Time Lords), but now the Sugar Skull Gang are out and want things to go back to the way they used to be. I mean this is probably gonna turn out to be utterly wrong, and of course the Doctor appears to have some connection to them and their imprisonment that isn't clear yet, but I do think the Flux is basically meant to be chaos vs. the order represented by time.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:58
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I tend to also think it's a matter of disordered time vs arrow of time, with these people basically being the ancient greek myth weavers who like spun thread of everyone's fate in history or whatever to organize reality. Actually I just looked up the name because I kept thinking it was the muses who did that but they're the art bosses, and they're literally called the Moirai / The Fates, so I feel dumb for not just recognizing that outright. The Doctor remembers the birth of the universe. I wonder if they had their memory scrubbed of the birth of the time while retaining memories of the birth of the universe, or maybe that happens before or in a way not comprehensible on a TARDIS trip to observe. Speaking of observation, I can't think of any other beings who kind of function with the same quantum-observation theme besides weeping angelsI wonder if perhaps their nature as quantum-observers or... observees will tie into the threads of fate here, maybe the rando human they time-jacked will function as the time-observer or something timey wimey to help seal or re-organize the universe with an arrow of time restored. edit: bad unsupported theory: the doctor used to be one of the sugar hill crystal gang and rebelled against the chaos style Khanstant fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 02:23
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Khanstant posted:I tend to also think it's a matter of disordered time vs arrow of time, with these people basically being the ancient greek myth weavers who like spun thread of everyone's fate in history or whatever to organize reality. Actually I just looked up the name because I kept thinking it was the muses who did that but they're the art bosses, and they're literally called the Moirai / The Fates, so I feel dumb for not just recognizing that outright. Oh God and it's the Temple of Atropos too, who is one of the Fates, why the gently caress didn't I pick up on that? 
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Nov 10, 2021 02:38
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it's so on the nose you wouldn't even think to google it. i was like "i don't know how to spell these names and I'm pretty sure they're made up for Flux"
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Nov 10, 2021 03:31
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I liked this episode better than the first one because there was a cohesive, singular plot.
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Nov 10, 2021 05:08
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I am a fan of Dan.
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Nov 10, 2021 07:44
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Khanstant posted:I tend to also think it's a matter of disordered time vs arrow of time, with these people basically being the ancient greek myth weavers who like spun thread of everyone's fate in history or whatever to organize reality. Actually I just looked up the name because I kept thinking it was the muses who did that but they're the art bosses, and they're literally called the Moirai / The Fates, so I feel dumb for not just recognizing that outright. When time linear progresses and tomorrow is full of guesses That's the Moirai... When the world gets older and the universe ever colder That's the Moirai... When the past is arranged and your future wont change That's the Moirai... I guess 'moirai' doesn't have the right vowel at the end but gimme a break okay
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Nov 10, 2021 08:50
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lol i mean i dont know how to speak alien or greek and im from texas so i say "more-eye" but my "eye" is kind of an "ahh"
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Nov 10, 2021 17:51
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From just hearing the name in the episode I'd assumed they were called Mori and was a reference to the Latin for "to die". The Moirai makes a lot of sense though. All of this is kind of interesting and I'd be fine with it if the Mouri are just their own weird thing, like the Eternals or the Gods of Ragnarok or whatever. However, I have a horrible feeling in my gut that what Chibnall's gearing up is to say that the Timeless Child had been one of the Mouri, so all that bollocks last series will have been to set up the grand reveal that the Doctor is actually a not-Time-Lord from a place literally called Time.
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Nov 10, 2021 20:26
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i hope you're wrong but i might bet money you're right. the doctor being from Time and on this Council of Time Managers and the Timelords just doing Romans copying their fanfic idea of hellenistic greece
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Nov 10, 2021 22:27
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I haven't watched a single Doctor Who related thing on YouTube but the algorithm knew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0P6hsswQVI 
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Nov 11, 2021 00:57
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what episode was he talking about?
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Nov 11, 2021 01:02
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Khanstant posted:what episode was he talking about? He was talking about it having come back from being off the air, so presumable Trial of a Time Lord.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:11
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I'm assuming it will have been The Ultimate Foe, which was notorious for the incredibly hosed up background to it where Robert Holmes wrote a draft of the first part and an outline of the second but then died, Eric Saward and JNT had their final falling out and Saward left the show but finished the script, JNT decided it was too much of a downer and hired Pip'n'Jane to finish it since they're fast (insert Anakin/Padme meme of Padme asking if its good as well as fast) writers but they were legally forbidden from even being told what the original finished script looked like. How the show ran another 3 seasons after this is kind of remarkable, honestly.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:16
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Here's the full clip, where he actually talks to the Bakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCe3owO7wY
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Nov 11, 2021 02:31
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Jerusalem posted:I'm assuming it will have been The Ultimate Foe, which was notorious for the incredibly hosed up background to it where Robert Holmes wrote a draft of the first part and an outline of the second but then died, Eric Saward and JNT had their final falling out and Saward left the show but finished the script, JNT decided it was too much of a downer and hired Pip'n'Jane to finish it since they're fast (insert Anakin/Padme meme of Padme asking if its good as well as fast) writers but they were legally forbidden from even being told what the original finished script looked like. And the reason why the Bakers couldn't even look at Saward's finished script, was when JNT felt it was too bleak of an ending, he asked Saward to make some changes to make the ending less dark and ambiguous. Saward refused and instead just pulled his script entirely. Also, wasn't part of the inspiration behind Whizz Kid from "Greatest Show in the Galaxy" Chibnall himself, after that particular panel? I know the pat answer has always been "oh it's supposed to represent the know-it-all fans in general" but I like to think that at the time, they specifically also decided to take the piss out of the smug twat with the glasses and the yellow tie. 
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Nov 11, 2021 02:52
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Taking the excuse to post this again:
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Nov 11, 2021 02:57
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The Ultimate Foe part one is a legitimately great episode of Who, for me it's the closest Seasons 22-23 ever come to being genuinely good. I love Colin but despite all the good will I can muster I honestly can't say any of his stories clear a bar higher than "ok at parts but still kinda bad" (not even Vengeance on Varos really, despite what some say). The Ultimate Foe part two is such a disjointed mess that that story on the whole unfortunately doesn't either.
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Nov 11, 2021 06:35
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I love The Two Doctors, and while yes Patrick Troughton is in it (and great) Colin is still the clear lead, and the chemistry of the Six/Peri/Jamie trio is really wonderful.
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Nov 11, 2021 10:43
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There's a lot of good stuff in The Two Doctors but I don't think it really comes together as a whole. It is a high point in Season 22 (although I do have soft spot for Revelation of the Daleks too), but I still wouldn't call it a proper no-caveats solid-quality serial of the kind you can find in almost every other season of Classic Who. I haven't seen it in ages though, it might be better than I remember!
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Nov 11, 2021 11:59
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'The Two Doctors' reminds me of things like the TNG episode where Scotty turned up, where the older character was written in a different way from in their original appearances and seemed 'off' as a result. With 'Relics' it was because nobody involved in the writing worked on TOS and TNG had evolved into something stylistically different, but it's especially weird with 'The Two Doctors' because Robert Holmes actually wrote stories for Troughton! It's kind of a mean-spirited, somewhat sadistic story as well, which is another way it differed from the Troughton era. Maybe that was the stylistic clash, like putting Dixon of Dock Green into The Professionals. Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 12:40
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Forktoss posted:The Ultimate Foe part one is a legitimately great episode of Who, for me it's the closest Seasons 22-23 ever come to being genuinely good. I love Colin but despite all the good will I can muster I honestly can't say any of his stories clear a bar higher than "ok at parts but still kinda bad" (not even Vengeance on Varos really, despite what some say). The Ultimate Foe part two is such a disjointed mess that that story on the whole unfortunately doesn't either. The Mysterious Planet is pretty good and features what I think of as the best Six/Peri dynamic of the televised stories. You just have to not get upset over the ludicrous premise and the ways the trial messes with the ending.
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Nov 11, 2021 16:13
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"I am Drathro, not-polystyrene giant robot overlord of
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Nov 11, 2021 19:15
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https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1458804224058441735
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Nov 11, 2021 20:06
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https://twitter.com/oliverchenery/status/1458756340239765506 Love seeing more Cyber designs
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Nov 11, 2021 21:17
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im loving that proto cyberman. ive always kind of written them off for being so rude and lame, but idk, seeing a person under there seemingly opting in to presumably "improve" himself is cool and making me curious about their origins and how the final cybermen would be perceived by these early pioneers of cybermanning.
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Nov 11, 2021 22:09
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I’m finally catching up on the show and watching Revolution of the Daleks. It’s really underwhelming seeing Captain Jack again, partly because I’m now watching it with the knowledge of his serial sexual harassment and partly because he now looks like a bad waxwork caricature of himself.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:38
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Vinylshadow posted:https://twitter.com/oliverchenery/status/1458756340239765506 This looks like a NFT pic for sale. Is there one smoking weed wearing a bowler hat?
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Nov 12, 2021 02:59
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happyhippy posted:This looks like a NFT pic for sale. Well, half of that, at any rate 
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Nov 12, 2021 03:35
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m finally catching up on the show and watching Revolution of the Daleks. It’s really underwhelming seeing Captain Jack again, partly because I’m now watching it with the knowledge of his serial sexual harassment and partly because he now looks like a bad waxwork caricature of himself. I'd love for all these serial sex offenders to disappear down a hole forever, but drat if I didn't see Barrowman pop up on QI as if nothing ever happened. And he was still acting super pervy. 
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Nov 12, 2021 05:11
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Organic Lube User posted:I'd love for all these serial sex offenders to disappear down a hole forever, but drat if I didn't see Barrowman pop up on QI as if nothing ever happened. Not that it excuses it, but I think someone said that QI episode was filmed before all of that recently came out. They definitely didn’t have to air it though.
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Nov 12, 2021 05:14
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Payndz posted:"I am Drathro, not-polystyrene giant robot overlord of Drathro is crap, but the story makes it clear that he is supposed to be crap. The whole story is self-consciously a sci-fi parody, not unlike Creature from the Pit, only more clearly executed. The pathetic and stupid robot is supposed to be so. I can only imagine Saward explaining the “Time Lords moved the Earth” premise to Holmes and Holmes sitting there thinking “the only way to sell this idea is a parody of awful sci-fi, because the idea is awful sci-fi.”
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Nov 12, 2021 16:05
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Narsham posted:Drathro is crap, but the story makes it clear that he is supposed to be crap. C-Bakes comic voice: "poo poo? poo poo?!?"
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Nov 12, 2021 16:50
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happyhippy posted:This looks like a NFT pic for sale. I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing that. Scrolling through I immediately thought "oh no"
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Nov 12, 2021 17:11
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Khanstant posted:I tend to also think it's a matter of disordered time vs arrow of time, with these people basically being the ancient greek myth weavers who like spun thread of everyone's fate in history or whatever to organize reality. Actually I just looked up the name because I kept thinking it was the muses who did that but they're the art bosses, and they're literally called the Moirai / The Fates, so I feel dumb for not just recognizing that outright. If I'm remembering my deep cut Doctor Who lore right, didn't Rassilon start the 'anchoring of the thread' which created the web of time, and that caused the Sisterhood of Karn to split off from the Time Lords and remove the Time Lord's ability to reproduce naturally, meaning that the Looms needed to be made to repopulate the species? Man, Doctor Who lore is weird.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:10
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OldMemes posted:Sisterhood of Karn to split off from the Time Lords and remove the Time Lord's ability to reproduce naturally, meaning that the Looms needed to be made to repopulate the species? Apart from the Sisterhood of Karn being a schism from the Time Lords who held the secret to eternal life, none of this other stuff has ever been in the show, there has been nothing in the show to ever indicate Time Lords don't have kids, in fact the opposite, since the Doctor is clearly established to have had a family and children. Andrew Cartmel had a vague (and terrible) plan to make the Doctor the machine created recreation of a third mysterious "other" founder of the Time Lords, but thankfully it never happened in the show and only ever got elaborated on in books happening with little oversight during the time period where the show was off-the-air, almost all of which has been firmly ignored or contradicted by stuff that happened in the show after it was revived in 2005.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:06
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The Doctor doesn't have any living kids do they? I remember that one cool kid but they found some reason to off her almost immediately.
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Nov 13, 2021 02:16
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Khanstant posted:The Doctor doesn't have any living kids do they? I remember that one cool kid but they found some reason to off her almost immediately. His granddaughter Susan is - as far as on-screen television episodes go - still alive and well. He left her on an alternate future Earth that was recovering from a Dalek Invasion because she fell in love with a man she met there, and she was scooped out of time and later returned there by a Time Lord called Borusa in The Five Doctors as part of his quest to use all 5 of the Doctor's regenerations (note how there were only 5, not millions) up to that current time to infiltrate the tomb of Rassilon so he could discover the secret to immortality/ The secret turned out to be becoming a paving stone, a fate so horrendous that the 10th Doctor would eventually "reward" some poor woman by doing the same to her in Love & Monsters. If you throw Big Finish audio stories into the mix, at least as far as the ones I've heard she continued to live on the alternate future Earth, had a kid (who died? I don't precisely recall, just that I didn't particularly like the story) and the last I heard the 8th Doctor was doing everything he could to distract her from learning about the Time War and being press-ganged into fighting in it. Jenny, the character from The Doctor's Daughter, is an accelerated growth clone built from the Doctor's genetic material, and her regenerative capabilities appeared to consist of bringing her back to life as she was as opposed to a full regeneration.
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Nov 13, 2021 02:28
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Vinylshadow posted:https://twitter.com/oliverchenery/status/1458756340239765506 Yo put this on TV this is sick
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Nov 13, 2021 07:18
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Jerusalem posted:Jenny, the character from The Doctor's Daughter, is an accelerated growth clone built from the Doctor's genetic material, and her regenerative capabilities appeared to consist of bringing her back to life as she was as opposed to a full regeneration. IIRC, didn't the writer say it was actually meant to be that the terraforming stuff brought her back to life? The effect they used for it looked extremely similar to the regeneration effects though so everyone watching took it as a regeneration.
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Nov 13, 2021 10:01
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