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Afriscipio posted:What's the thread's opinion on Santa, tooth fairy, Easter bunny and other untruths we were all brought up on. My wife and I had an unexpected disagreement about whether Santa is coming to visit our 2 year old. I plan on keeping those traditions, if nothing else because his friends will talk about Santa and the tooth fairy and I don’t want my guy to feel left out. I’m going to go a bit further and introduce krampus as well 
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Nov 10, 2021 16:46
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wizzardstaff posted:In a world where the concept of Santa didn’t exist, I would not feel the need to invent him in order to make my child feel innocence and wonder. So really for me it’s a question of whether she’ll be harmed by not having the same experience as her peers. And I’m very much leaning toward her being okay. If you want, maybe keep the gift-giving tradition "in the family" but acknowledge that Santa brings donated gifts to less-fortunate children (something that is literally true) and take your kid to a toy drive?
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Nov 10, 2021 16:54
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In our culture (American) it would be very hard to not do Santa, given that he is everywhere. We also use it as an instructive tool about someone trying to do good and spread cheer in the world. We also do a lot of donating this time of year and try to instill the idea that we are helping Santa give to others who need help. I'm not sure my 5 and 3 year old really think about it too strongly, and I don't think of it as lying. It's more fostering imagination. Maybe that's semantics and rationalizing. At the end of the day I too want him to have similar experiences and the joy of Christmas and Santa isn't really a negative thing. We do sort of do the Easter Bunny, but that's more about the mystery of who left the eggs and where sort of thing. My kids are really into nature (let me tell you about every single episode of Wild Kratts). So I sort of try to spin it as the wonders of nature sort of thing. Kind of in the same category as dragons and unicorns. We are probably due for a tooth for the oldest soon. We haven't decided on the tooth fairy. I'm sure he'll be jazzed about getting money, since he already gets some for small chores he does. We made him the shoe baron, who makes sure that all of the shoes and boots get put up on our shoe rack and not piled on the floor (this mostly means remembering to put his shoes away and remind his brother too as well). We also have tried to encourage bed making and dishes in the sink as chores too. He gets rewarded with quarters for those things, so he already has an idea of money. I just think it is sort of silly. My wife and I are both scientists, and I'm leaning more towards explaining how the baby teeth are replaced with adult teeth, like a shark and show some cool pictures of skulls and stuff. It wasn't mentioned, but gently caress the Elf on a Shelf. My kids are unaware it exists and I hope they never do. If they do ever mention it I plan to say that it's a silly game that some people do, but we don't. There are so many things about it that bother me (commercialism, spying, toys moving on their own while you sleep) that I see no redeeming value in it and it's not like it is some major tradition that everyone did as kids etc. Edit: I hadn't really considered Krampus. I don't really want to use it as a punishment/scare tactic, but now that I think about it we could talk about it in the sense of spreading ill and nastiness and less good choices (we've been trying that language instead of "bad" choices) and how it causes you to assume that negative form or something. Sort of the opposite of the spirit of Santa. I'm sure my kids would get a kick out of how wild he looks. Are there any "good" kids stories that deal with Krampus in that sort of way. Maybe sort of like the Grinch, but Krampus? Edit 2: That link below lays out the way we sort of think about it really well. Douche4Sale fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 16:56
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Sorry, I never post but occasionally read the thread as there's a new baby in the family. From a storytelling perspective, these are myths thay may help kids differentiate between facts and stories (fiction) as they grow up. That said, I earnestly believed in the tooth fairy but don't remember believing too much in Santa and not at all in the Easter Bunny. I don't think my parents ever presented these myths to me as hard facts but as stories that would foster my imagination and wonder. The Conversation says it better than I'm doing: https://theconversation.com/why-its-ok-for-kids-to-believe-in-santa-128170
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Nov 10, 2021 16:57
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I’m totally telling and have told them about Santa. If I can’t differentiate Santa from telling my kids a bigger, more impactful lie, then I’m the one that’s hosed up.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:10
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I know my last post probably made me sound like a grumpy reddit atheist who hates Christmas but the last couple takes are closer to my thoughts. My goal isn't to raise a kid who's never exposed to fantasy and myths, I'm absolutely going to talk about unicorns and dragons, etc. But I won't actively lie to her to maintain the fiction that they exist. As long as I can fit Santa into that framework, I'm fine with him.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:13
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We never lied to our son about Santa. When he would ask us if Santa actually existed we would counter with "well what do you think" We went to take picture with Santa and stuff but we didn't really sell it. He heard enough of it from his friends and school classmates that he pieced what Santa was together on his own and then he started asking questions like how can one person cover the whole world in one night. And we'd answer with things like "well, he has a bit of an assist with time zones, but do you think that's enough help to be able to get to all of the houses that celebrate Christmas in one night?" And then we explained to him that some people like to believe in Santa because it's like a feel-good magic like thing and we definitely shouldn't ruin other people's fun. He figured it out on his own when he was about 5 when we had that conversation and he's been really good about not spoiling it for others. We also never did the Santa watches you all the time blah blah blah thing because that's creepy AF and I don't want my kid to only think he only should be kind, etc. when some sort of magic creepy omnipotent thing is watching him. 🤣
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Nov 10, 2021 17:18
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Not to derail the current discussion, but it made me think sort of about Christianity and how to handle it since it is so dominant here too (especially since we moved from the Bay Area to WI, ha). My wife and I are agnostic (although I am attempting to improve my spirituality). But I know my kids are going to begin asking more questions as they hear about Jesus and God and Heaven etc. I've been able to sort of dodge and brush it off and avoid an in-depth discussion so far. But it's only a matter of time. I really don't know how to handle it because treating it sort of in a similar manner as myths and legends probably isn't going to fly with Christian people, which is understandable. I guess I'm sort of leaning towards a "nobody knows" and lots of people believe different things and then talk about other religions and how they interpret things like death. And say it is fine to choose to believe what you want because it is something you can't know. I don't know, we haven't really thought out how to handle it yet. Anyone else had similar situations? My main goal is for my kid to not be offensive or judgmental just because another kid believes in Heaven for instance - like telling him he's wrong or it's fake and made up. But I'm not going to encourage or tell him Heaven is real or even that I believe in Heaven.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:22
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I was VIOLENTLY anti-cultural myths when I was young and didn't have kids. But then when my first was 2 or so I came around to the idea of Santa as the spirit of caring for each other. We don't do the Easter Bunny because it seemed unnecessary. My daughter came home one day around age 4 or 5 and informed me that she believed in the tooth fairy thanks to her friends, so we do that one as well. Now I do a lot of asking 'well what do you think?' when just follow their cues about most myth things, including fairies etc.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:35
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Our main source of Santa is Twas the Night Before Christmas, so I'm hoping the kids will just understand him as a character in a book, like Peter Rabbit or the Wild Things. Or maybe they'll think all those things are real!!! I'm posting in the hopes that typing everything out will help calm my nerves after having the morning from hell, being 30 minutes late to work, and (literally) running into our institution's second-in-command, causing him to spill coffee all over himself. I have a meeting with him in an hour, and I'm laying my face on my cold desk like a drunk person trying not to puke. All nerves, no outlet.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:43
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I'm pro Santa because it's fun now, and highly unlikely your children will demonize you for it laterDouche4Sale posted:I guess I'm sort of leaning towards a "nobody knows" and lots of people believe different things and then talk about other religions and how they interpret things like death. And say it is fine to choose to believe what you want because it is something you can't know. I think this is how I'm leaning, but probably won't have to have this conversation until much later
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Nov 10, 2021 17:46
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Just to close the loop, this page of the thread is a better and more entertaining meditation on the meaning and purpose of Santa than The Polar Express, a movie nominally about that very thing and which cost $165 million. Anyways no idea what we’ll do about Santa. My wife and I have only briefly discussed it but she is pretty strongly against it. Her family is Jewish and so she has no nostalgia for it, so it’s hard to convey what the point of it all is. I’ll probably fold on Santa in exchange for keeping the Tooth Fairy which is a more strange idea with less strings attached.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:53
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I am an atheist and this line of conversation has made me realize I need to make some kind of plan regarding how my kid perceives religion and Christianity. I am pretty disdainful of religion in general but I truly want my kid to reach his own conclusions. Just something I need to be more cognizant of. It’s going to be a trip when he is old enough to come to me with his thoughts about it, and I need to make sure he knows he can without judgement.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:57
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Firstly a little context: My parents went entirely too far with Santa, to the point that it still stirs extremely negative emotions in me because I feel like in the end it was done primarily for their benefit. The thing that really makes me uncomfortable about Santa is just how far people go to make kids believe and how that makes finding out the truth a huge shock. Essentially the kid is finding out that there has been a years-long society-wide conspiracy to lie to them, with the people who they should trust more than anyone else playing the most active and pivotal part in the deception. This essay from a child psychology expert in The Lancet Psychiatry breaks out my feelings on it pretty well. We're taking the "Santa is a big game of pretend that everyone plays because people like doing nice things for other people. You get to play along in the game of Santa too!" tact. Sure that loses the "be nice or else" power of Santa but that's not something we were ever going to throw around. Our choice to take this path is almost certainly going to cause a fight with my parents, so that's gonna be fun.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:59
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We've been upfront that Santa and the Easter bunny are fun stories and games people play, but they aren't real, and yet my oldest has convinced herself that the Easter bunny is real, and that there is a Santa (no present is ever from Santa, so I'm not sure how she's reconciling that).
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Nov 10, 2021 18:07
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Douche4Sale posted:Not to derail the current discussion, but it made me think sort of about Christianity and how to handle it since it is so dominant here too (especially since we moved from the Bay Area to WI, ha). My wife and I are agnostic (although I am attempting to improve my spirituality). But I know my kids are going to begin asking more questions as they hear about Jesus and God and Heaven etc. I've been able to sort of dodge and brush it off and avoid an in-depth discussion so far. But it's only a matter of time. I really don't know how to handle it because treating it sort of in a similar manner as myths and legends probably isn't going to fly with Christian people, which is understandable. I guess I'm sort of leaning towards a "nobody knows" and lots of people believe different things and then talk about other religions and how they interpret things like death. And say it is fine to choose to believe what you want because it is something you can't know. I don't know, we haven't really thought out how to handle it yet. Anyone else had similar situations? My main goal is for my kid to not be offensive or judgmental just because another kid believes in Heaven for instance - like telling him he's wrong or it's fake and made up. But I'm not going to encourage or tell him Heaven is real or even that I believe in Heaven. Hey I'm in Wisconsin too! My kid is eight and those questions come up occasionally.... He will ask about God or Jesus or Noah most recently and we will answer his questions. We have a lot of "well, some people believe...." statement that proceed our explanations and stuff. And we answer the questions he has and let his level of interest guide our discussion and answers. As soon as the pandemic in Wisconsin is at a level where I'm comfortable and my kid is fully vaccinated We are probably going to start going to the Universal Unitarian 'Church" here because it's a very liberal space in general and we like a lot of the people that go there and they do a really good job of teaching about a lot of different types of religions and things that people believe and generally focus on being kind and inclusive and how we can help marginalized groups. They also have a really good sex education/consent/etc. program as well for kids. That's how we are planning on handling the whole religion thing.
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Nov 10, 2021 18:26
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I've always considered myself agnostic but my wife is definitely atheist, which is funny because she just bought a second fake Christmas tree for the bedroom so she can have a totally Santa themed one for all the Santa ornaments her atheist mother just shipped her after moving to a smaller apartment. So now our 2.5 year old has some idea what Santa is, where previously he was probably more familiar with Krampus just because of that Krampus kids book. At least he won't grow up like my father-in-law, who believed in Santa until he was like 14 because every Christmas his grandpa would sneak away, dress as Santa, then come to a window to ask the kids what they wanted. This was in a town of about 500 in super rural Missouri and they also didn't own telephone, so a different time I guess. This kid is so spoiled though I like the idea of Santa as someone who just gives gifts to children in need. I don't think it'll fly with my wife but I'll bring that up, thanks.
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Nov 10, 2021 19:08
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I figured out Santa wasn't real around 6 but i' d had an intense, vivid, realistic dream where I saw the easter bunny hiding eggs in my house and so I figured the easter bunny was real for another couple years after that. My parents did baskets but they in no way ever dressed up in an easter bunny costume so I don't know where that came from.
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Nov 10, 2021 19:44
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Apparently everyone is fed up with Elf on the Shelf https://www.newschannel6now.com/2021/11/09/with-wink-judge-fights-tyranny-elf-shelf/
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Nov 10, 2021 19:56
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We decided not to do Santa and told our oldest it was a made up story etc. At 4 she called us liars and insisted Santa was definitely real and he was going to bring her a vacuum. So she got a toy dyson and we've done Santa ever since 🤷♀️ Shes 7 now and is getting suspicious. We never confirm or deny, just ask her what she thinks and why she thinks that. I think we might squeak 1 more year of belief out of her before she lawyers us to death.
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Nov 10, 2021 20:42
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My belief in Santa was shot down at age 4 watching my dad stagger downstairs at midnight in a pair of undies and not much else carrying a pillowcase full of presents. I think everyone kind of knew Santa was just a fun game by the time I was at school. I did cause a bit of drama accidentally though because my aunt and uncle took the Santa illusion REALLY far with my cousin with aspergers, who still adamantly believed in him at age 9 (we were the same age). I said he wasn't real and just a game and the reaction was.....bad. I don't think they did him any favours maintaining the illusion that long tbh, but at least the bubble didn't pop at school amongst his peers.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:07
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remigious posted:I am an atheist and this line of conversation has made me realize I need to make some kind of plan regarding how my kid perceives religion and Christianity. I am pretty disdainful of religion in general but I truly want my kid to reach his own conclusions. Just something I need to be more cognizant of. It’s going to be a trip when he is old enough to come to me with his thoughts about it, and I need to make sure he knows he can without judgement. I'm not sure if I have a specific point here, just maybe how I'm trying to frame a respectfulness for religions and cultures with my own kids.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:36
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ExcessBLarg! posted:When it comes to mythos and/or religion, honestly the older the tradition around it is lends some kind of "credibility". Not a "this is the truth" credibility, but more like "this is a thing that people have placed their faith in for generations and generations" and that alone is kind of awe-inspiring, especially with how fickle humans are in general and how foreign to us the daily lives of people 200 or even 100 years ago is. It helps that having a faith developed over generations helps meld together some internal consistency. Religion also harbors some of our oldest culture, parables, life lessons, and also community-based support systems. Of course, religion has also been used as an excuse for plenty of evil, so it's not all roses. Actually I think I get what you are saying and I agree. Even though I don’t vibe with religion personally, I don’t want to come off as some annoying edgelord and I certainly don’t want my son to either! And I still freaking love Christmas, I just frame it as a festive cultural thing that essentially boils down to time to be with family and giving back.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:50
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The other thing I've realized is that people's needs for spiritual fulfillment vary widely and isn't necessarily tied to a religious upbringing. There's plenty of people who have been raised with a religion who are basically indifferent to it in their daily lives, but also could have a child with a strong need for a spiritual/religious identity (or vice versa). So my goal is to share what I know, while trying to not establish too strong of an opinion of it. I teach my children what I was raised with and know, because it's what I was raised with and am familiar with, and they can take it, leave it, or find their own path, and all of that is just fine.
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Nov 10, 2021 22:09
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The three kings are better than the odd and incoherent agglomeration of traditions that Santa represents so if I were to lie, the choice is clear. E: The weird representation of Santa as a feudal lord who despises abnormality in the 1964 ”Rudolph” TV special is hilarious though. King Hong Kong fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 22:45
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So advice request time: My wife had nightmares for months before my baby was born about her getting hooked up to IVs in the NICU. So of course, that happened. Emergency C section to a NICU stay for bacterial pneumonia for 3 weeks this summer. She took it very hard at the time. We ended up staying in the NICU with baby for 12+ hours a day (understandable) but she also became paranoid and terrified at anything the nurses or doctors were doing. She ended up yelling at nurses that baby was fine and could be released without any more treatment near the end of baby's stay. Her mom and I calmed her down and baby finally got discharged normally and in good health. Now, however, it's 4 months later and I starting to think she has PTSD or something from the experience. She thinks everything could hurt baby, and refuses to let bany leave the house to go anywhere, like the park or to visit my parents, without her. She constantly tells me and her mom that we are taking care of the baby wrong and yell at us if we push back and try to do anything new without getting her express permission first. So, her mom and I agree she's got something going on mentally. PTSD, post partum depression, anxiety etc. I've tried talking to her about it and asking her to see an md or psychiatrist about it but she's refusing. It's at the point my wife is giving her mom extreme anxiety to be around her, my parents are insulted that she won't let them see the baby in public/ their house (both are vaxed), and she is starting to claim that our child is HER baby not OUR baby. Obvious extreme red flags here. Does anyone have any advice or resources on how to get her the help she needs? I want her to become mentally healthy again and keep baby from growing up with a toxic mother 
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Nov 10, 2021 23:40
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My wife's OB/GYN straight up told me multiple times that I had an obligation to call her office immediately if I noticed Mrs Pony was having any PPD/PPA symptoms.
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Nov 11, 2021 00:19
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Shifty Pony posted:My wife's OB/GYN straight up told me multiple times that I had an obligation to call her office immediately if I noticed Mrs Pony was having any PPD/PPA symptoms. It also wouldn’t hurt to give the baby’s pediatrician a heads up along with the obgyn. Peds offices will also screen for postpartum issues and may be able to help approach things in the context ‘for baby’s sake’. That postpartum hormone soup is intense even in the best of times. It can feel biologically hard to focus on taking care of yourself (if that makes any sense). Having the framing of this as ‘this is affecting the baby’ from as many sources as possible might help her come around. I’m sorry this is such a rough start.
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Nov 11, 2021 00:35
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Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm not sure how I'd get in contact with her obgyn but i can certainly bring it up with the pediatrician. She seems like a good doctor and would be able to intervene for baby's sake without letting my wife know it was me discussing it behind her back, as that would probably just make her less likely to get help. I'll start there.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:03
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BadSamaritan posted:It also wouldn’t hurt to give the baby’s pediatrician a heads up along with the obgyn. Peds offices will also screen for postpartum issues and may be able to help approach things in the context ‘for baby’s sake’. Seconding this. That sounds like an incredibly difficult situation to be in, I’m sorry you are going through this. PTSD from intensive care is definitely a real thing, in patients AND family members. It’s a traumatic, intense experience after all. It sounds like her thoughts are getting pretty extreme. Is she sleeping much? Would she be open to taking medication like an SSRI if she doesn’t want therapy? Definitely let the pediatrician or whoever you see know. They have tools to intervene, and they can be discrete if you don’t want your wife to know it was you. Be aware of her care for the baby, because of things get really, really bad for her, she may be at risk for hurting the baby when she thinks she is helping. Good luck, that sounds so rough.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:04
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Our daughter has become deathly afraid of "fuzz" in the bath. No idea where this came from but it basically makes bath time last 5 minutes.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:14
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calandryll posted:Our daughter has become deathly afraid of "fuzz" in the bath. No idea where this came from but it basically makes bath time last 5 minutes. Omg same!! I also have no idea where it came from. If it’s a piece of hair or literal fuzz, she will hold out her hand and screech MAMA!!! FUUUUUZZZZ!! Like it’s a giant venomous spider. E: this has been going on for like six months.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:49
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It hasn't been that long for us but same exact thing. No idea where it came from, it's crazy trying to give her a bath lately.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:53
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Yep in our house that's "I've got the some fluff" and a tiny piece of dust, hair, fuzz, whatever on his finger holding it out for me to take and dispose of. He doesnt yell though. Just refuses to share bathwater with it.
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Nov 11, 2021 02:02
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Thanks for the advice guys. I sent a message to the pediatrician to see what she can do to help and I'm watching her carefully. She would never intentionally hurt the baby but who knows, she is all in on the All Natural Organic No Chemicals Ever thing so that could end up hurting baby from refusing real healthcare from her fears. We have the 4 month vaccine wellbaby appointment coming up soon so I'm hoping Ill get something started with the MD by then
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Nov 11, 2021 02:15
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Coming late to the santa thread. As an atheist jew in a marriage to an atheist who went to Catholic school Santa is probably just going to be a story of play-pretend the goyim do. Easter ain’t happening, we’re doing pesach and leaving wine out for Elijah. As a jew I don’t have particularly warm feelings for the trappings of Christianity. There is a little bit of intergenerational trauma there. Christmas is cool because all the fun parts are pagan. I’ve come around to the value of spiritual thinking and the grounding that traditions can give. The thought that I’m observing shabbat just like my ancestors before me helps me think of myself as a preserving and building things for the future. That sense that we are a part of something bigger than ourselves and we have a duty to the future is something I want to pass on.
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Nov 11, 2021 03:10
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ExcessBLarg! posted:The other thing I've realized is that people's needs for spiritual fulfillment vary widely and isn't necessarily tied to a religious upbringing. This is an excellent point; someone up thread was talking about how their kids at age 5 or whatever were asking about god and death etc, I was thinking when reading that "that's not at all the sort of question I would ever ask my parents, I wonder how that came up?"; and I don't think I ever stopped to consider these things until I was 19 when my atheist roommate dared me to speed read 'thus spoke zarathustra' (where the famously misquoted line "god is dead" appears). I had zero interest in church growing up, not in a "I'm rebelling against my parents, they're so controlling, ugh" but a "this is literally the worst use of my time, ranking below sleeping in" but my mom gets a lot of personal enjoyment from it for whatever reason(s) But yeah, different strokes for different folks
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Nov 11, 2021 03:48
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calandryll posted:Our daughter has become deathly afraid of "fuzz" in the bath. No idea where this came from but it basically makes bath time last 5 minutes. Koivunen posted:Omg same!! I also have no idea where it came from. If it’s a piece of hair or literal fuzz, she will hold out her hand and screech MAMA!!! FUUUUUZZZZ!! Like it’s a giant venomous spider. Y'all, I have the true light and truth. At around age 2.5-3, my kiddo became deathly afraid of fuzz in the bath, just like yours. So we made up a game called Fuzz Hunter wherein the little dude would use one or more of his bathtub toys to try to trap the fuzz and ultimately remove it from the bath, usually in an overflowing cup of water. It took a little bit to get him interested but in the end it became our longest running bath game and completely disarmed his fear.
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Nov 11, 2021 04:53
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As an atheist Jew I have no love or nostalgia for Santa. I’m married to another atheist Jew, though he grew up celebrating Christmas with his dad’s side of the family, and we’ll do whatever fun parts we feel like but definitely not telling our kids there’s a guy called Santa who’s responsible for all their presents. I feel pretty strongly that kids should know presents come from their parents and that not everyone has the same financial capacities. So my kid is currently obsessed with rice cakes and I’m really happy he’s obsessed with SOMETHING because he’s always been underweight and not super interested in food but just why does it have to be a low-calorie food he’s eating like 15 of per day. He won’t even let me put peanut butter or anything on it. I want this baby to be FAT. boquiabierta fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 08:07
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Religion chat: We're not a religious household. I grew up in a religious household when I was younger. The older I got, it became a lazy religious household. My husband grew up in a completely not religious household. I don't mind my kids learning about religion, in fact, it would be great for them to learn about all religions even if they don't want to practice them. Christianity as a culture is a HUGE part of general culture in the US. If you don't have at least a background in it, you're going to not understand everything in society. Heck, having even a historical understanding of christianity can help understand why people behave a certain way. I've had to explain things to my husband because he never learned "christian mythology" and it's incredibly blended in with our culture even if you don't believe it. We drive by a church where it has a big red cross as part of its sign. My kid thought that it must be some kind of hospital. He didn't recognize a cross as a church symbol. Woops.
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Nov 11, 2021 10:48
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