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do we have any indicators of how twelfth gen is doing saleswise, is it impossible to buy? steve hardware unboxed talked some poo poo but i don't know how seriously to take it and would take him with a grain of salt on this anyway. also, while i'm here why does intel change motherboard socket so often? is there like a technical justification for it or is it just for product differentiation? was there a downside to the AM4 approach that's not as obvious to someone non-technical?
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Nov 9, 2021 01:01
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K8.0 posted:iCue is basically goatse but your system is the goatman and the entire internet is the horse cock that killed him. All RGB software is atrocious but iCue is special. you have a 2004 regdate and yet here you are confusing Mr. Hands and the goatman you may as well self-ban, you’ve totally lost face as a goon
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Nov 9, 2021 01:19
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CoolCab posted:do we have any indicators of how twelfth gen is doing saleswise, is it impossible to buy? steve hardware unboxed talked some poo poo but i don't know how seriously to take it and would take him with a grain of salt on this anyway. All he said is that his retail contacts told him that the 12th gen is selling below expectations. That's hardly "talking poo poo" lol.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:20
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I notice that one UK retailer is already doing a £20 discount on the 12700k (making it 20% cheaper than their 5900x price). It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of demand is being pushed back by the the DDR5 price/availability and the lack of low/mid tier motherboards. Plus so many people at this point have to be emotionally tied to the idea of being able to upgrade their GPU rather than CPU.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:32
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:All he said is that his retail contacts told him that the 12th gen is selling below expectations. That's hardly "talking poo poo" lol. talking down if you prefer, whatever. i don't know if he's talking poo poo or not, that's why i'm asking.
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Nov 9, 2021 02:15
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:It's not just syscalls and interrupts, it's also a shitload of context switches which also take up CPUtime, along with whatever amount of CPUtime is spent by the scheduler itself.
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Nov 9, 2021 02:22
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why splash and buy a high end balling out CPU and DDR5 when the cheapest GPU from the last 2 years in stock on Newegg is $1600. gonna be especially true for the 12600k. might as well wait and see if prices go down if you are stuck pairing it with a 1060 3gb or whatever.
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Nov 9, 2021 02:29
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Prices aren't going down on GPU's until 2023. And judging by the deluge of NFT nonsense I see every day maybe not even then.
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Nov 9, 2021 04:24
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Anecdotally, availability seems better than Zen 3 at its launch, though that may just come down to supply. Intel owns its own fabs, while AMD has to compete for fab time.
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Nov 9, 2021 05:31
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I guess they need a DDR5 fab too though 
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Nov 9, 2021 06:31
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Kazinsal posted:Point of order: That was Mr. Hands who died of a horse cock; Kirk Johnson is an elusive figure but reportedly is still alive and well. Shipon posted:A bit of a tangent but it's a bit unfortunate that there's all these nice looking keyboards that mostly lack function keys and/or a numpad. I do way too much Excel to give up the numpad! Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Anecdotally, availability seems better than Zen 3 at its launch, though that may just come down to supply. Intel owns its own fabs, while AMD has to compete for fab time.
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Nov 9, 2021 11:36
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:This came up in another thread where I leaned that Kirk hasn't been uploading videos to xvideos for the past few years, so we don't really know anymore. Not for these. These are Intel 10nm ESF / Intel 7. The rumored tsmc partnership is supposed to be for an upcoming GPU.
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Nov 9, 2021 13:41
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Did someone say motherboards?
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Nov 10, 2021 22:11
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I kind of want 12th gen but I'm dreading picking a motherboard. Also there's deciding on RAM like DDR4 4000 or DDR5 (completely sold out)? Probably just get the former since you can actually buy it and it will be cheaper but it feels kind of wrong? I remember getting PC 133 RAM when the first DDR boards were available for the same CPU and sort of regretting it even though on paper the speed increase was small for the price difference. Still, it kind of feels like the same situation. edit: also the power use seems high and while I don't care too much, I don't ever want to use a liquid cooler. Hopefully a baby head sized air cooler will be fine?
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Nov 10, 2021 22:26
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Rexxed posted:I kind of want 12th gen but I'm dreading picking a motherboard. Also there's deciding on RAM like DDR4 4000 or DDR5 (completely sold out)? Probably edit: also the power use seems high and while I don't care too much, I don't ever want to use a liquid cooler. Hopefully a baby head sized air cooler will be fine? If you look back through the last page or two of the thread, you'll see that chopping back to 150W or so has minimal impact on performance, so is probably where most people should be targeting. That sort of TDP is well handled by existing (admittedly large) air coolers. e; and most people won't be buying the 12900k anyhow. The 12700k/12600k should run cooler than that.
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Nov 10, 2021 22:32
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DrDork posted:If you look back through the last page or two of the thread, you'll see that chopping back to 150W or so has minimal impact on performance, so is probably where most people should be targeting. That sort of TDP is well handled by existing (admittedly large) air coolers. I have a phanteks PH-TC14PE on my old i5-4670K but rather than try to get an adapter I might just go for the nh-D15 or similar when there's LGA1700 mounting available. I'm still hemming and hawing about the whole upgrade to begin with. I may just go the cheap but effective route and replace my R7 1700 with an R7 5800X and postpone the whole build upgrade until DDR5 is more mainstream and there's been an AMD response to the efficiency core thing. While I'd like to go AMD I'm pretty brand agnostic since I've owned both and I've rarely had problems that weren't capacitor plague related. My use case is high single core performance since I play poorly optimized FPSes fervently, but I also want lots of cores since I run a bunch of stuff in the background. Seeing reviews talk about how good the single core performance on the 12th gen stuff is over almost everything else plus the efficiency cores being handy to keep background stuff happy makes it seem like it'd be perfect for me. I just hate the new platform pricing but since I've been building my own stuff for 25 years I know that there's no way to pick the best time to upgrade other than when your current system isn't doing what you want it to, which for me is right now. edit: they have an adapter for LGA 1700 for noctua stuff already, I just hadn't really looked yet. If you check the NH-D15 on amazon there's an addon for $8 to get it. Rexxed fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 22:44
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I think if I were in your situation and had a motherboard that could accept a 5800X, I'd go that route and give it another year or two for DDR5 platforms to mature and the chip shortage to abate. Zen3's single thread performance is leagues beyond Zen1, and everyone expects AMD to cut their prices now that Intel are back in front.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:24
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:I think if I were in your situation and had a motherboard that could accept a 5800X, I'd go that route and give it another year or two for DDR5 platforms to mature and the chip shortage to abate. Zen3's single thread performance is leagues beyond Zen1, and everyone expects AMD to cut their prices now that Intel are back in front. That's definitely the more sensible option and I'm just kind of waiting to see what AMD does at this point. If I could pick up a 5800X for a discounted price it would be more sensible than splashing out for overpriced new architecture stuff that will be antiquated when there's presumably much faster and cheaper DDR5 in a couple of years. It's nice when the chip makers fight and there's well priced options.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:35
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Rexxed posted:That's definitely the more sensible option and I'm just kind of waiting to see what AMD does at this point. If I could pick up a 5800X for a discounted price it would be more sensible than splashing out for overpriced new architecture stuff that will be antiquated when there's presumably much faster and cheaper DDR5 in a couple of years. It's nice when the chip makers fight and there's well priced options. FYI, just in case you have a Microcenter nearby, they have the 5800X for $329.99.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:37
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Rinkles posted:FYI, just in case you have a Microcenter nearby, they have the 5800X for $329.99. lol, they bumped the price back up $30 already? But, yeah, I agree with the above: if you've been ok with a 1700, a 5800X will feel like a very nice uplift for a lot less than going 12th-series. DDR5 just isn't worth the price right now, either, so holding off for another year or two seems like the sane choice if you can manage it.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:41
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DrDork posted:lol, they bumped the price back up $30 already? Maybe video cards will be affordable by then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfelqZpapZA
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Nov 11, 2021 00:54
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DrDork posted:If you look back through the last page or two of the thread, you'll see that chopping back to 150W or so has minimal impact on performance, so is probably where most people should be targeting. That sort of TDP is well handled by existing (admittedly large) air coolers. Pretty much this. I have the Freezer II 280mm on the 12700K but with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut paste. Config is pull air through the front of the case through the rad and that works supremely enough that my temps are the lowest of any build I have ever done going back to when I started building PCs in 2000, and this is a pretty high end rig now. I'm just blown away at the performance really. 
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Nov 11, 2021 01:00
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mrk posted:Pretty much this. I have the Freezer II 280mm on the 12700K but with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut paste. Config is pull air through the front of the case through the rad and that works supremely enough that my temps are the lowest of any build I have ever done going back to when I started building PCs in 2000, and this is a pretty high end rig now. I'm just blown away at the performance really. A very small, very dumb part of me was tempted to try and pick up a 12700K, even though I have a 5900X, because the 12th Gen is "New Tech", but seeing it running hotter than my 5900X, with probably minimal uplift in performance relative to the cost, at least eliminates that desire.
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Nov 11, 2021 04:00
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SourKraut posted:A very small, very dumb part of me was tempted to try and pick up a 12700K, even though I have a 5900X, because the 12th Gen is "New Tech", but seeing it running hotter than my 5900X, with probably minimal uplift in performance relative to the cost, at least eliminates that desire. What temps do your 5900x run at? I understood the 5800x+ Ryzens to run hotter. The 12900K is obviously a heat monster but the 12700 is not, not even under load. Uses less power and when you account for multitasking, efficiency is actually better as day to day normal use is running stuff mostly off those e cores anyway. Check the screenshot's power usage areas for min/max average. For reference all my fans are running at 400-500rpm btw and only ramp up on a curve when all cores are being loaded or the CPU temp is at 60+
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Nov 12, 2021 00:20
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Do you think it's worth worrying about the future when buying a CPU today? The 12600k is obviously a very big step up from the 11600k, but looking at game benchmarks the differences don't seem that significant (production performance is a different story, and by all accounts the 12000k smokes the 11600k in that area). I realize these results don't necessarily tell the whole picture, but they're also focused on CPU-limited scenarios, that might not realistically arise or matter (does an extra 30FPS in CSGO matter when you're already at 260FPS? not to me). Question is whether that's likely to change in the next 5 or so years. Whether the differences between the two will become more relevant. When you factor in sales and motherboard prices, picking the alder lake cpu could be upwards of $150 more and probably with a worse board. As a side note, I'm surprised neither HWU or GN test the Assassin's Creed games. I thought they were known CPU hogs.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:36
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If you're already on a 11600k looking at gaming you're fine for a while. My 12600k showed up yesterday upgrading from a 4790k - that now ancient thing has still been doing the job just fine playing games at 1440p with no drops or issues (other than a little in CP2077 at release, but lol) Unless you're into some serious sim games you'll pretty much never be CPU limited in any fashion without other artificial limitations.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:13
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No, no 11600 yet. I'm looking to build a new pc.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:19
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Rinkles posted:Do you think it's worth worrying about the future when buying a CPU today? The 12600k is obviously a very big step up If I bough this cpu I'd be moving up from a 2600k which is a 10000k jump for me. With the 42600k i'm just thinkin about thos cores. incoherent fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 01:32
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Rinkles posted:No, no 11600 yet. I'm looking to build a new pc. Ah I misread you as your comparison with 11600k. But as mentioned coming from a fairly old 4th gen CPU seemed like a much better upgrade point than the 11th gen, but I wasn't actually hitting the limits still in most cases and if I really wanted could probably hold off a bit longer. This upgrade does also give me support for TPM for eventual Win 11 upgrade, some faster PCIe and M2 slot options etc. on top of the CPU speed itself - so when new graphics cards exist in a few years I should be ready for a incremental upgrade there too.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:38
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Rinkles posted:As a side note, I'm surprised neither HWU or GN test the Assassin's Creed games. I thought they were known CPU hogs. They won't even run on this mixed CPU crap iirc.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:50
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Rinkles posted:Do you think it's worth worrying about the future when buying a CPU today? The 12600k is obviously a very big step up from the 11600k, but looking at game benchmarks the differences don't seem that significant (production performance is a different story, and by all accounts the 12000k smokes the 11600k in that area). In short--no. Maybe one day we'll see PS5/XBox ports that really stress <8 core systems, but right now they simply don't exist. Maybe in 3 years? But even then, I tend to doubt it; cores aren't the only thing that matters, after all, and in the vast majority of cases you're going to be GPU limited far before you're CPU limited. That said, given that unless you need to buy RIGHT NOW, the price difference between a 11600k and a 12600k is likely to shrink to <$100 after a little bit, it'd be silly to pick the 11600k unless you got a smoking deal.
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Nov 12, 2021 04:31
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mrk posted:What temps do your 5900x run at? I understood the 5800x+ Ryzens to run hotter. The 12900K is obviously a heat monster but the 12700 is not, not even under load. Uses less power and when you account for multitasking, efficiency is actually better as day to day normal use is running stuff mostly off those e cores anyway. Check the screenshot's power usage areas for min/max average. I'll have to grab a screenshot when home, but typically it's about 26-28 C @ idle, and runs between 50 - 60 C under full load, depending on gaming or if I'm doing some CFD modeling. I'm using the Fractal Design Torrent case, with the 2x 180mm fans moved to the bottom, and typically staying around 300 - 350 rpm (30% until 70-deg C, then a ramp up from there), while I have the Arctic Freezer II 420mm in the front, using 3x Corsair NF-A14s that are also set to 30% until 70-deg C (approx. 450 rpm), similar ramp to 100-deg C. I also have a rear NF-A14 that matches the front fan's PWM profile.
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Nov 12, 2021 04:38
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DrDork posted:That said, given that unless you need to buy RIGHT NOW, the price difference between a 11600k and a 12600k is likely to shrink to <$100 after a little bit, it'd be silly to pick the 11600k unless you got a smoking deal. Nah, but I've started buying parts (only CPU agnostic stuff), and learning about building a pc has given me a bit of that itch. The 11600K was attractive because of the $200 MC deal, and I've seen decent Z590s at decent prices. sauer kraut posted:They won't even run on this mixed CPU crap iirc. You're right. Probably not good benchmark material even if they got them to run.
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Nov 12, 2021 05:07
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IIRC they have specific issues with Denuvo but they should run with workarounds (turning off the Atom cores) for now. Other recent Ubisoft titles like Ghost Recon Breakpoint, Far Cry 6 and Watch Dogs Legion show up in some of the reviews so you could try to get approximate results from there.
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Nov 12, 2021 11:55
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The announcement videos from Intel were showing Bannerlord almost exclusively where games are concerned. It would make sense to me if that game scale will with CPU. My Ivy bridge is struggling with it at any rate. Are there any reliable benchmarks results using Bannerlord?
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Nov 12, 2021 18:40
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Derbauer played with the e-cores. Performance per watt and performance per square mm are pretty dang impressive. Basically akin to 7700k’s single core perf, and the 8 of em combined are akin to a Ryzen 1700X’s multi core performance. Gotta think Intel has more plans for em, including in the server world. https://youtu.be/NsXONEo1i6U
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Nov 13, 2021 07:58
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 Uhhhhh, goddamn
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Nov 14, 2021 18:24
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Cygni posted:
Yeah but I believe it's only one store. Tustin, cause they had a reopening or something. $220 elsewhere.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:26
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can’t be held responsible if you choose to live outside of the Tustin Microcenter Commuting Area (TMCA)
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Nov 14, 2021 18:48
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edit: nevermind
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Nov 14, 2021 20:51
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