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it's interesting you say that, because the PRI article is based on an interview by an Afrikaans language newspaper with one of those mercenaries, who they name. Meanwhile the clip Blumenthal posted cites "Western journalists" in a single city. Seems like you're holding one piece of evidence to a different standard than another. Anyway, here's other stories about South African mercenaries in Libya: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-14693343 https://www.news24.com/news24/gaddafis-exit-plan-20111029-2 This is still not an uncommon occurrence today: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/25/world/middleeast/libya-mercenaries-arms-embargo.html Of course the reality of the situation in 2011 seems to have been that, while Qaddafi brought in a number of mercenaries from Sub-Saharan Africa, particularly SA, fighters from elsewhere in Sub-Saharan Africa were more likely to join the anti-Qaddafi forces than fight for the regime: https://www.globalafricanworker.com/content/interview-jacob-mundy-libya edit: My overall note on the ridiculousness of that Blumenthal tweet is he takes a real problem (stories about crimes committed by sub saharan African mercs generating mass violence against primarily guest workers) and attributes it to some posts a guy made on Something Awful, a paywalled forum, in the middle of a chaotic war. There's no Bellingcat article he dug up about this. Eliot was not well known or influential at that point. He was a dude posting about a war on SA. GunFondler42069 fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 01:07
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GunFondler42069 posted:it's interesting you say that, because the PRI article is based on an interview by an Afrikaans language newspaper with one of those mercenaries, who they name. Meanwhile the clip Blumenthal posted cites "Western journalists" in a single city. Seems like you're holding one piece of evidence to a different standard than another. The BBC one is super weirdly worded and doesn’t seem to back up it’s own headline quote:African soldiers recruited by Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi have begun streaming home. The news 24 article seems to be a lot of speculation and originally probably asserted more based on the correction at the end quote:On 30 October City Press published a report entitled “SA Mercenaries were misled”. The report referred to allegations that the London based Hart Security had contracted South African mercenaries through an intermediary to render certain services in Libya. The reference to Hart Security in the report was published in error. City Press regrets the error and retracts the allegation. NYT is paywalled so I have no observations The global African worker article is a pretty interesting and nuanced discussion but uh it doesn’t really support your point quote:At the time, one of the myths that helped to legitimate foreign intervention was rumors — replete with racist undertones — of an army of African mercenaries being unleashed upon the hapless Libyan opposition. When all was said and done, very few had actually responded to Gaddafi’s call, and, in fact, more fighters from sub-Saharan Africa had been sent to augment the relative weakness of the revolutionary camp.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:24
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He notes the same thing I said in my post above: while some of those mercenaries answered Qaddafi's call more joined the opposition. The throughline of all these 2011 articles is that the reality of the situation on the ground is often chaotic and precisely what is happening can be hard to decipher. Even after the fact, some details will remain unclear. Eliot's posts from a decade ago are of a guy taking in a bunch of unclear data during a messy civil war and having emotional reactions to it on a loving web forum. He's not the loving spokesman for NATO and he wasn't saying that stuff in Bellingcat articles. Max's tweet remains very dumb. EDIT: Also, I just had to google this to check, since I was not working there back then. Bellingcat was founded in 2014. Max is using poo poo Eliot posted on SA, three years before the site existed. GunFondler42069 fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 01:27
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GunFondler42069 posted:He notes the same thing I said in my post above: while some of those mercenaries answered Qaddafi's call more joined the opposition. I mean there’s always outliers and academics avoid speaking in absolutes for a reason, it’s seems to me he’s not positively asserting that mercs were fighting for Qaddafi so much as caveating his statement to allow for outliers but  Anyway whatever you have to say about Blumenthal the throughline is that he’s alleging Elliot jumps into chaotic situations and makes bad takes based on poor sourcing. I don’t think he’s saying Elliot had much influence on Lybia, merely asserting that there’s a general trend that goes back to well before Bellingcat
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Jun 14, 2021 01:38
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Yeah, except that's not at all borne out by Eliot's published work on the site, or by Bellingcat's actual coverage of Libya. I'm interested in Max's critique of this article, painstakingly geolocating the site of a massacre committed by a warlord's forces: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2017/09/04/geolocating-libyas-social-media-executioner/ Our open-source work goes through extensive verification and multiple sets of eyes before anything gets published. I guess Max's criticism is that Eliot reacted to things a decade ago on a private forum named Something Awful. Anyone who was ever wrong about anything while posting on this forum can never go on to do journalism. edit: On that note, it's interesting to look at where Blumenthal's own stances were a decade ago- https://medium.com/@_alhamra/documenting-max-blumenthals-regime-change-from-assad-opponent-to-assad-apologist-8715eb9d941b
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Jun 14, 2021 01:43
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I can’t say I’m at all interested in changing the subject to talk about Syria and Max Blumenthal’s positions there on I was really more interested in pointing out that the ‘vicious African mercenaries” stuff was bullshit and then also when you shifted from trying to imply those allegations were supportable I wanted to make it clear that I think you’re intentionally misstating blumenthal’s point when you counter it by saying “bellingcat wasn’t even around yet!” Edit: Regardless, I’m glad we had this exchange because that BBC article is a masterclass in slimy journalism and I would never have seen it otherwise. It’s kind of amazing how the headline and first paragraph have really nothing to do with everything else written in it HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 02:01
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HashtagGirlboss posted:I can’t say I’m at all interested in changing the subject to talk about Syria and Max Blumenthal’s positions there on Yeah, that's not what I did. I pointed out that there's evidence suggesting SA mercenaries were in country, as they have been at numerous points since, and that the situation was chaotic and unclear when Eliot was posting about it. Blumenthal's tweet is slimy, and complete horseshit, and yes it is relevant that Bellingcat didn't exist then because he is attempting to criticize the site's work based on something the founder posted on a private forum three years before it existed. I'm done engaging with you, at any rate.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:33
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GunFondler42069 posted:Yeah, that's not what I did. I pointed out that there's evidence suggesting SA mercenaries were in country, as they have been at numerous points since, and that the situation was chaotic and unclear when Eliot was posting about it. Blumenthal's tweet is slimy, and complete horseshit, and yes it is relevant that Bellingcat didn't exist then because he is attempting to criticize the site's work based on something the founder posted on a private forum three years before it existed. Lmao there’s a good reason not to jump into the “rumors of rampaging African mercenaries” game when things are chaotic and unclear Before you go, I’m super curious of you actually read that African worker article you linked me to, if not, you might benefit from doing so
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Jun 14, 2021 02:37
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Interactions like this make me embarrassed to read c-spam. Please keep your terminally online aggressive bullshit there.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:35
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i'm sure if we were to comb through their posts, we would find that over the last 16 years hashtaggirlboss has never posted something in the heat of a developing situation that turned out to not be perfectly accurate (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 14, 2021 03:45
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Marsupial Ape posted:This is why the Right always wins in the long run. Smug crabs in a barrel.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:46
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apatheticman posted:Interactions like this make me embarrassed to read c-spam. Hey man he could of just said something like “I didn’t make those weird bad posts ten years ago and I don’t feel the need to answer for them” but instead he tried to defend it with a bunch of articles he didn’t vet very well (at all?) I think when someone goes “well actually it was unclear whether or not there were rampaging bands of African mercenaries” that deserves a bit of pushback given the fact that there’s in fact no good evidence that there were rampaging bands of African mercenaries GunFondler42069 posted:i'm sure if we were to comb through their posts, we would find that over the last 16 years hashtaggirlboss has never posted something in the heat of a developing situation that turned out to not be perfectly accurate Ive made lots of bad posts and had lots of bad takes. I’m human and I’ll own them. I’ve never suggested anything close to rampaging bands of African mercenaries doing war crimes though
HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 03:47
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apatheticman posted:Interactions like this make me embarrassed to read c-spam. There's a way to fix that.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:50
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HashtagGirlboss posted:
And you could have not posted them in the first place but instead you did.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:51
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Lemniscate Blue posted:And you could have not posted them in the first place but instead you did. I didn’t post them
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Jun 14, 2021 03:52
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HashtagGirlboss posted:I didn’t though? You're right on that, my mistake. It was some other tiresome participant in the circular firing squad trying to chase rep or something, I dunno.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:53
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What I did was point out the evidence at the time and how it compared to the evidence Blumenthal posted, which you repeatedly refused to analyze in any way. It's interesting that you blew off anything I referenced re; Blumenthal in Syria, when the tweet that started this thread was Max using Eliot's posts from 2011 to claim he isn't credible to report on Syria today. But I guess we shouldn't expect intellectual honesty from you. edit; I've gone ahead and added that person to my ignore list and will do the same with folks who want to start arguments about posts people made in 2011.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:54
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Grand Fromage posted:There's a way to fix that. I'm already on it but it doesn't help when the thread gets derailed because of them. HashtagGirlboss posted:
"Maybe he should have surrendered when I continuously enter the thread and attack him with accusations completely unrelated to the current topic at hand" Cool point that makes you seem like the reasonable one.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:56
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What point are you trying to make? apart from reminding everyone how that impossibly stupid guy came into the thread for the podcast about the overwhelming evil of the billionaire class poisoning every level of society and claimed that the real reason things are bad is that leftists keep being rude
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Jun 14, 2021 03:58
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When measuring your hog with a stack of pesos, you’re allowed to start at the taint, right?
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Jun 14, 2021 04:03
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I feel like a need to preface this: SERIOUS QUESTION, NOT A GOTCHA ATTEMPT. Okay here we go: as far as Bellingcat goes, how do you personally square your professed anarchist beliefs with working for an organization that takes money directly from the US State department?
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Jun 14, 2021 04:06
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some plague rats posted:What point are you trying to make? apart from reminding everyone how that impossibly stupid guy came into the thread for the podcast about the overwhelming evil of the billionaire class poisoning every level of society and claimed that the real reason things are bad is that leftists keep being rude That it would be easier to fight that evil if we'd quit stomping on each others' dicks out of spite and pettiness.
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Jun 14, 2021 04:06
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Lemniscate Blue posted:That it would be easier to fight that evil if we'd quit stomping on each others' dicks out of spite and pettiness. What?
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Jun 14, 2021 04:07
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some plague rats posted:What point are you trying to make? apart from reminding everyone how that impossibly stupid guy came into the thread for the podcast about the overwhelming evil of the billionaire class poisoning every level of society and claimed that the real reason things are bad is that leftists keep being rude Oh. Hi. It’s not that you’re rude, it’s that you put an immense amount of energy into being completely ineffectual and useless as society deteriorates around you. Imagine the things we could get done of people like you put as much effort into cooperating with other likeminded people instead of performatively pseudo-intellectually sucking your own dick in online discussions. Rude people can be useful…so, you’re not rude.
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Jun 14, 2021 04:14
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Marsupial Ape posted:Oh. Hi. It’s not that you’re rude, it’s that you put an immense amount of energy into being completely ineffectual and useless as society deteriorates around you. Imagine the things we could get done of people like you put as much effort into cooperating with other likeminded people instead of performatively pseudo-intellectually sucking your own dick in online discussions. Rude people can be useful…so, you’re not rude. Marsupial Ape posted:Did you meet Mark Ames while serially sexually assaulting women in Russia? We can play guilt by association all night long. you seem like a cool guy I should pay attention to
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Jun 14, 2021 04:19
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The Bellingcat poo poo is not a gotcha it's literally the most asked question by annoying leftists you see in Robert's Twitter. Throwing it out like it's a loving logic bomb that's going to cause him to shut down like Kirk debating the computer that runs a planet in Star Trek is just really juvenile.
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Jun 14, 2021 04:28
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Ok, we’re done. This isn’t getting reopened.
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Jun 14, 2021 04:36
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And we’re back. Meant to do this about a week ago, and boy, the timing, yikes. Anyhow, I really don’t want to close this thread again. I don’t want to have reason TO close this thread again. I don’t want to put anyone on ignore. So kindly keep the thread relatively on topic, and anything more personal, take it outside this thread. Hell, if you even make a thread devoted to it, I’ll happily link it. I suppose with the recent news, it reminded me of the Boy Scouts episode, and having to contend with something being a good thing in your life, and yet a source of unmitigated horror for others. I guess with Lowtax (and so many other entities in my life), you can hold onto those positive things while shining light on the negative. I don’t know. Still mulling in the noggin. However! This latest episode with the strong man, I keep wanting to edit the comic sans Achewood comic with “gym class”.
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Nov 11, 2021 11:10
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Hey, do yah wanna see my knives?
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Nov 11, 2021 12:16
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B33rChiller posted:Hey, do yah wanna see my knives? last year some time I was very agitated and needed something to do with my hands so figured I'd spend the night sharpening knives. 5 minutes of searching my apartment I came up with like a dozen different knives and a pistol mostly unsecured on the floor or in closets. it's cool, I don't have any kids around
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Nov 11, 2021 12:52
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Can't wait for tankies to roll in and ruin this thread again.
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Nov 11, 2021 13:13
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Testekill posted:Can't wait for tankies to roll in and ruin this thread again. Tankies aren't real. Spend less time on twitter, it's rotting your brain
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Nov 11, 2021 19:01
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I'm really glad this thread is open again but I'm also sad we haven't had a Billy Wayne Davis episode in yonks.
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Nov 11, 2021 19:08
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An insane mind posted:I'm really glad this thread is open again but I'm also sad we haven't had a Billy Wayne Davis episode in yonks. I believe that guests not getting paid is a big problem with iHeartMedia podcasts and was a sticking point because you're still taking a massive chunk outta your day.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:16
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An insane mind posted:I'm really glad this thread is open again but I'm also sad we haven't had a Billy Wayne Davis episode in yonks. Billy had a good cameo in the (mini?) podcast Faces in the Corner along with the Trillbillies guys. Bunch of lefty podcast people telling spooky stories, I liked it quite a bit.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:41
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Testekill posted:I believe that guests not getting paid is a big problem with iHeartMedia podcasts and was a sticking point because you're still taking a massive chunk outta your day. yeah i remember reading him tweet something to that effect. sucks cause he was one of my favourite guests, but i get it. the man's job is talking. he should be paid for it.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:43
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The Dr. Phil episode was really good. I always thought it was just a really flawed idea from the start to have "Therapy" be you in front of a live audience getting shamed by Dr. Phil.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:22
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Testekill posted:I believe that guests not getting paid is a big problem with iHeartMedia podcasts and was a sticking point because you're still taking a massive chunk outta your day. Wait, clear channel are prepared to give rob 400k a year but they won't pay his guests??
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Nov 12, 2021 05:06
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some plague rats posted:Wait, clear channel are prepared to give rob 400k a year but they won't pay his guests?? For_the_exposure.twitter.meme
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Nov 12, 2021 11:00
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wtf? how the hell does nick mullen have a better labour policy
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