FFV Four Job Fiesta 2021 - Held At Four Jobs Total Landscaping

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FeyerbrandX: Oct 9, 2012

I thankfully didn't have the stability issues with 3 (I had FF2 chug HORRIBLY in battles I tried grinding spells in beyond level 10, and FF4 ate cursors randomly).

3PRs issues seem to be HP growth is horrible and spell charges way too few for how lousy magic damage scales. And 3's in general of "the final boss expects 2 ninjas and 2 sages, maybe 2 devouts if you lean 100% into shurikens.

The only valid jobs seem to be Viking, Blackbelt, Ninja and Sage, with Dragoon Mystic Knights being honorable mentions. I gave up on black mage incredibly fast and never went with their upgrade.

# ? Oct 1, 2021 01:48

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 02:41

ZZT the Fifth: Dec 6, 2006; I shot the invisible swordsman.

We don't actually have release dates or anything for the FF5 and FF6 PRs, do we?

# ? Oct 1, 2021 02:26

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

I can't remember if they specifically stated when (the trailers just say "beginning in July 2021") but it's still listed on Steam for 2021. The SteamDB dates have passed which is why it recently changed to "Coming Soon" on the store page at least for VI. Oh, while they didn't list it in their schedule it's possible something will be shown at the Square-Enix TGS thing in like 4 hours here.

Edit: No such luck, though there was a game announcement by the battle programmer of FFV, Hiroyuki Ito, called Dungeon Encounters.

Doom Goon fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Oct 1, 2021

# ? Oct 1, 2021 06:44

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

I just joked about it, but prepare for FFV:
https://twitter.com/FF5ForFutures/status/1444267873388490755

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:45

BisbyWorl: Jan 12, 2019; Knowledge is pain plus observation.

If the event is a mini-fiesta, I think I'll pass on it.

I haven't done a casual run of FFV in years, and PR would be the perfect time to rectify that.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 13:57

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Same. I've never finished an FFV run without some kind of constraints. I need to fix that, and the PR is my best option.

# ? Oct 2, 2021 16:04

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

https://twitter.com/revenantkioku/status/1453469632350732290

# ? Oct 27, 2021 23:20

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Also

https://twitter.com/revenantkioku/status/1453489721116528643

# ? Oct 28, 2021 02:37

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

'750 only' is basically easy-mode if you're not using Fiesta rules, so that's a nice way for newer players to still feel like they're contributing.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 02:42

Cattail Prophet: Apr 12, 2014

Sounds like a good excuse to try a "one set of inputs controlling two instances of the game" gimmick run.

# ? Oct 28, 2021 02:54

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

I've spent a lot of my free time since the fiesta ended speedrunning FFV, I'm not sure if I've got another fiesta-ish run in me this year. I still have to get back to my quadzerker omega nonsense too... So much FFV so little time

# ? Oct 28, 2021 03:54

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

https://twitter.com/FF5ForFutures/status/1457883811463581698

# ? Nov 9, 2021 05:18

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

https://twitter.com/FF5ForFutures/status/1458561976485908483

I asked and the site apparently supports multiple runs if you wanna go.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 01:58

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Here's some changes/bugs: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1173810/discussions/0/3153077511681322358/. Oh, and the font replacement thing apparently works for this game too, same way (font_ja .bundle and .manifest -> font_en .bundle and .manifest).

Looks like there's a bad one with max MP not triggering correctly when changing jobs.

Edit: Oh, you can swap characters with full ATB bars huh? That's kinda big.

Doom Goon fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 11, 2021

# ? Nov 11, 2021 02:30

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Here's some more stuff I gleaned from the Discord, apologies if this is well known already:

Speed is messed up somehow, characters that should be going first aren't.
Beastmaster is messed up, !Releasing wrong monsters.
Self-Destruct can miss (was A before). Uh oh, not a good sign for Blue Mage already.
Text changes. Map available from start, know that the map item gives you a Sight-like map with points marked but not sure if different.
Rod breaking is... buffed Apparently it keeps track of the ones in your bag and breaks those instead so you get the rod equip elemental bonus.
Liquid Flame changes form and has... full MP each time
Report that Sap is slower and there's inconstancy with animations which might be an issue (Blue is slower, whip doesn't show paralyze, stuff like that).
Report that fleeing only works with a full ATB bar. Also there is code for walking on the map to change the preemptive rate but apparently that was also in FFIV Pixel and nobody knows if it's used.
Berserker attacks random and not front-row like mobile. Will have to see what else they have (ATB penalty, dummy targets are the big ones between mobile and regular).

# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:21

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Doom Goon posted:

Here's some more stuff I gleaned from the Discord, apologies if this is well known already:

Speed is messed up somehow, characters that should be going first aren't.

Beastmaster is messed up, !Releasing wrong monsters.

Self-Destruct can miss (was A before). Uh oh, not a good sign for Blue Mage already.

Text changes. Map available from start, know that the map item gives you a Sight-like map with points marked but not sure if different.

Rod breaking is... buffed Apparently it keeps track of the ones in your bag and breaks those instead so you get the rod equip elemental bonus.

Liquid Flame changes form and has... full MP each time

Report that Sap is slower and there's inconstancy with animations which might be an issue (Blue is slower, whip doesn't show paralyze, stuff like that).

Report that fleeing only works with a full ATB bar. Also there is code for walking on the map to change the preemptive rate but apparently that was also in FFIV Pixel and nobody knows if it's used.

Berserker attacks random and not front-row like mobile. Will have to see what else they have (ATB penalty, dummy targets are the big ones between mobile and regular).

Berserkers seem to be going slower, but that may be compared to my monks. Is it Agility based?

And yeah, I just discovered the MP refill. Not sure how I'll do this with Monk/Zerker, even putting in Freelancer (because technically Monk is my Earth job) without rods

# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:53

Red Metal: Oct 23, 2012; Let me tell you about Homestuck; Fun Shoe

Breaking rods also always gives single-target damage, even when hitting multiple enemies. So yeah, rod breaking has gotten a huge buff.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 04:30

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Darn, of course I didn't get Blue Mage when I really wanted to test some things out (got Bard, Time Mage, Time Mage, and Chemist). Somebody let me know how badly it got nerfed if you will (Vampire, White Wind, level stuff, you know the drill).

# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:34

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

What did they do about !Calm?

# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:35

Cattail Prophet: Apr 12, 2014

GBA was the only version where !Calm was ever bugged, I'd assume it's working as intended.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:03

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Vampire is working as in SNES/Matrix, it's definitely not going to mimic a GBA glitch.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:18

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I'm coming up on Sandworm. The test for dummy targets is to give my berserker a non-axe and see if they miss?

# ? Nov 11, 2021 06:56

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

I believe that's right.

Wait, was Healing Staff always supposed to trigger counters? I just noticed it did on the Jackanape.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 08:04

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Doom Goon posted:

I believe that's right.

Wait, was Healing Staff always supposed to trigger counters? I just noticed it did on the Jackanape.

It was supposed to trigger on:Attack counters like with Jackanapes or rugwizard, but not on:hp damage counters like Byblos.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 14:57

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Ran Sandworm 3 times, berserkers never seemed to miss, so I think dummy targets are out.

Edit: to clarify, they'd attack the wrong holes, but they never missed when targeting Sandworm.

Bruceski fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 11, 2021

# ? Nov 11, 2021 20:29

TheWonderTrickster: Aug 16, 2013

For those who don't want to wade through Discord shitposting day and night- here's V PR in a nutshell:

~~Uncapping the frames only works here and not for battles~~

# ? Nov 11, 2021 20:56

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Here's some more stuff from the official Discord (much of it from dryzalizer, some of it from Unity code apparently). Unfortunately I won't have much time to actually play it myself these next few days:

Zombie confirmed non-GBA
Liquid Flame regens MP+status because it summons+HP copy instead of using dummy targets. This should effect other gimmick stuff (Toad on Twintania) but most have workaround.
This might effect ExDeath W2 doing Meteor (which was bugged) but it still doesn't (taken out?).
Whips do extra damage to some enemies (because bows I guess) . Likely CAN'T EVADE: Aerial involved.
I noticed this one, Magrissa calls Forza instantly based on HP and not ATB.
Noticed this too, Karnak 750 seems harder. Besides some time stuff encounters seem more frequent (not resetting steps between area change I think). Apparently Auto-Battle speeds it up too although it does pause on the victory screen (not during text boxes during chests or floor transitions though) and going to the menu. Aero animations slower.
???? doesn't seem to miss (was 99 before).
Ghidra doesn't L4 Quarter on death.
No Phoenix Downs on Bone Mail, Break, or Self-Destruct to hurry Galuf battle.
Other items also have Dual Wield multiattack bug like the Dancing Dagger (which already announced is going to be patched).
Float has the same Geomancer ability dealing with pitfalls.
Magic pots flee 100% after Elixir.
Quadzerkers can't run, just like SNES.
A bug where W2 near the Moogle Forest pulls enemies from W1's or default encounter table.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 04:32

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Doom Goon posted:

Noticed this too, Karnak 750 seems harder. Besides some time stuff encounters seem more frequent (not resetting steps between area change I think). Apparently Auto-Battle speeds it up too although it does pause on the victory screen (not during text boxes during chests or floor transitions though) and going to the menu. Aero animations slower.

I was just complaining about this. A lot of attack animations take longer, but I eventually realized that since the timer pauses on menus you can wait long attack animations out by going to a menu with "ATB wait" on.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 04:37

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Doom Goon posted:

[*]Ghidra doesn't L4 Quarter on death.

It did for me when I got it earlier today.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 04:58

Red Metal: Oct 23, 2012; Let me tell you about Homestuck; Fun Shoe

Doom Goon posted:

Ghidra doesn't L4 Quarter on death.

Fister Roboto posted:

It did for me when I got it earlier today.

yeah, it also used L4 Quarter for me. did you use death claw on ghidra? because that also paralyzes, which prevents react scripts from triggering, so ghidra won't use it unless you wait for it to wear off

# ? Nov 12, 2021 05:41

Doom Goon: Sep 18, 2008

Not me, from the Discord. Interesting, somebody tested that a couple ways:

quote:

Ghidra was killed with 1K needles in PR and did not use L4 Quarter on death
I think that death script has been changed, unless someone has seen it

Somebody else also mentioned death scripting changes so probably different somehow.

KataraniSword posted:

It was supposed to trigger on:Attack counters like with Jackanapes or rugwizard, but not on:hp damage counters like Byblos.

I just rechecked because I had to quit there and I saw that Jackanapes sometimes doesn't counter it :confused:

I noticed it when Jackanapes had an attack up but it's hard to tell with them. I never remember how Healing Staff works off the top of my head (it's like No Action and then runs the script?). I'm a bit confused on this, unlike 0 Damage attacks it triggers even if there's no HP change from the healing (if there's Max HP). Maybe it has to do with Evade%? So if it "hits" then it'll check any non-0 damage? I'm not certain of this so it could be a bigger script issue.

More stuff. I hope nobody minds the posting!:

LVL2 Old subject to Old immunity.
Time Slip only needs one non-immunity of Old/Sleep?
Same person: LVL5 Death is fine.
Also, Sinewy Etude in W1?
Golem can recast, also note the changes in the patch notes.
Basement Gilgamesh is Heavy apparently. There's a dump of enemy stats but scripting/resistances isn't human readable and I don't remember seeing level on it.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 07:26

Mandoric: Mar 15, 2003

Is Twin Lance checking for enemy death and retargeting NIN's left-hand autoattack if the right hand kills, unlike every other weapon where it just pumps an extra attack into the target before its death can proc, intended? It's been a long long time since I've used NIN for anything but the passive and cared enough to steal one while it was a raw DPS upgrade on its own.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 08:20

Rosalie_A: Oct 30, 2011

Doom Goon posted:

I never remember how Healing Staff works off the top of my head (it's like No Action and then runs the script?). I'm a bit confused on this, unlike 0 Damage attacks it triggers even if there's no HP change from the healing (if there's Max HP). Maybe it has to do with Evade%? So if it "hits" then it'll check any non-0 damage? I'm not certain of this so it could be a bigger script issue.

[/list]

The Healing Staff automatically hits -- that is, it has no hit determination in its formula --and casts a spell on the hit target. Thus, it triggers React:Fight, but not React:HP Damage. The former is what, e.g. the Unknowns in the Great Sea Trench have; the latter is what Jackanapes has.

Mandoric posted:

Is Twin Lance checking for enemy death and retargeting NIN's left-hand autoattack if the right hand kills, unlike every other weapon where it just pumps an extra attack into the target before its death can proc, intended? It's been a long long time since I've used NIN for anything but the passive and cared enough to steal one while it was a raw DPS upgrade on its own.

That's new. Normally the check for death is performed after each discrete action, which is why !Rapid Fire can skip dead targets (because it's four separate !Fight actions) but multiple attacks in one action (Twin Lance, Dual Wield, spellcasting weapons) wait for the whole thing to finish.

If that's the case, then it means PR is treating each strike as a discrete action to evaluate. This would mean that a Dual Wield Twin Lance !Rapid Fire would be sixteen !Fight actions, not four.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 17:20

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Rosalie_A posted:

The Healing Staff automatically hits -- that is, it has no hit determination in its formula --and casts a spell on the hit target. Thus, it triggers React:Fight, but not React:HP Damage. The former is what, e.g. the Unknowns in the Great Sea Trench have; the latter is what Jackanapes has.

That's new. Normally the check for death is performed after each discrete action, which is why !Rapid Fire can skip dead targets (because it's four separate !Fight actions) but multiple attacks in one action (Twin Lance, Dual Wield, spellcasting weapons) wait for the whole thing to finish.

If that's the case, then it means PR is treating each strike as a discrete action to evaluate. This would mean that a Dual Wield Twin Lance !Rapid Fire would be sixteen !Fight actions, not four.

it's probably not practical for any team without a chemist or bard but 16 hits is pretty funny

# ? Nov 12, 2021 19:05

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Doom Goon posted:

I just rechecked because I had to quit there and I saw that Jackanapes sometimes doesn't counter it I noticed it when Jackanapes had an attack up but it's hard to tell with them. I never remember how Healing Staff works off the top of my head (it's like No Action and then runs the script?). I'm a bit confused on this, unlike 0 Damage attacks it triggers even if there's no HP change from the healing (if there's Max HP). Maybe it has to do with Evade%? So if it "hits" then it'll check any non-0 damage? I'm not certain of this so it could be a bigger script issue.

Yeah, I'm not sure on that any more because I just saw it's a HP Damage counter. I have no idea.

Other things I have self-confirmed:

Pond's Chorus is now a toggle like Toad instead of "set: Toad". Assumedly Lillputian Lyric will do the same but I haven't gotten that far.
You can get into ship battles prior to the Torna Canal; they're rare and Sahagins are pretty easy to run from but will still wreck your poo poo at that point in the game. Might be a bug?
You don't actually have to change your equipment every time you change abilities, only when your ability loadout affects what you can equip (usually, when you change jobs)
Toad stops counters??? Garula wasn't countering when he was toaded, but was when alive.

EDIT:

Step count isn't just preserved between rooms, it's consistent between saves. Loading from an autosave will get you a battle in the exact same number of steps, every time. It may not be the same battle, though.

Also, the game doesn't even check to see if you CAN run unless someone is at full ATB; it's not just at the start of the battle, it's any time at all. No more "I guess I'll beat on this Zephyrus while I wait for that 1% flee chance to proc". You better have an escape skill or just punch through it.
Speaking of which, ATB is randomized at the start of battle; Agility affects how fast your bar charges, not how 'full' it is after a turn or at the start of battle. It's FF6-style, in other words.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 12, 2021

# ? Nov 12, 2021 19:41

Cattail Prophet: Apr 12, 2014

Rosalie_A posted:

That's new. Normally the check for death is performed after each discrete action, which is why !Rapid Fire can skip dead targets (because it's four separate !Fight actions) but multiple attacks in one action (Twin Lance, Dual Wield, spellcasting weapons) wait for the whole thing to finish.

If that's the case, then it means PR is treating each strike as a discrete action to evaluate. This would mean that a Dual Wield Twin Lance !Rapid Fire would be sixteen !Fight actions, not four.

Depending on exactly what's going on under the hood wrt counters, this could be a big problem for a lot of the jankier Omega strats.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 20:41

Sax Solo: Feb 18, 2011

I hate the ATB changes.

Rosalie_A posted:

That's new. Normally the check for death is performed after each discrete action, which is why !Rapid Fire can skip dead targets (because it's four separate !Fight actions) but multiple attacks in one action (Twin Lance, Dual Wield, spellcasting weapons) wait for the whole thing to finish.

Wait, I'm confused. Normally, !Rapid Fire does not skip targets that are killed during the !Rapid Fire, it waits for the whole thing to finish, doesn't it?

# ? Nov 12, 2021 20:55

Rosalie_A: Oct 30, 2011

Sax Solo posted:

I hate the ATB changes.

Wait, I'm confused. Normally, !Rapid Fire does not skip targets that are killed during the !Rapid Fire, it waits for the whole thing to finish, doesn't it?

nope, you're right, I'm wrong. I was mixing it up with a similar situation with FF6's, I think.

In any event, the Twin Lance retargeting on death is definitely new.

# ? Nov 12, 2021 22:14

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Rosalie_A posted:

nope, you're right, I'm wrong. I was mixing it up with a similar situation with FF6's, I think.

Yeah, X-Fight from the Master's Scroll/Offering in FF6 is just "Fight command, 4 separate times", so it will retarget if an enemy dies.

Rapid Fire is, instead, its own specific command that has weird interactions and foibles (such as only drawing two counters despite 4 hits, ignoring defense, and not breaking Sleep/Confuse) and may not be subject to the same rules as a normal !Fight, four times.

The main similarities between the two are that both halve your outgoing damage multiplier and both scrub added effects (like the Chicken Knife's ~~!Scram~~!Flee proc)

# ? Nov 12, 2021 22:55

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 02:41

CrashScreen: Nov 11, 2012

Hey, legit asking for a friend. He rolled Thief / Thief / Mystic Knight / Samurai. Got to Soulcannon and is running 2x Thief, 2x Mystic Knight atm, but is having some difficulties. The HP Leak is still killing him, and he can't really seem to outheal it with Potions. Even once the Launchers go down, the 50HP heals can't compete with the Cannon. Is this just a case of "level more" or are there any other useful things he can steal/farm/equip that could help? He's grinding for the Angel Rings to at least help with Old, but that doesn't seem to be the biggest issue he's struggling with. It seems like you can't run from Ramuh for the Hi-Potion farm in this version either?

# ? Nov 13, 2021 00:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFV Four Job Fiesta 2021 - Held At Four Jobs Total Landscaping

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