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JT Smiley posted:I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Orlando Brown probably won't be working with Disney ever again. MonsterEnvy posted:I think the whole original cast is stated as coming back. Minus Orlando Brown as nothing about Sticky has been announced. (Other then that trailer showing that he exists) I knew nothing about all of that  Maybe Sticky will be a quiet presence.
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Nov 13, 2021 18:42
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D34THROW posted:I knew nothing about all of that Considering the one shot of him is in a car giving a wave, would not be surprised if he’s just being written out the show in a silent cameo
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Nov 13, 2021 22:23
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At the very least it’s great knowing Cedric the Entertainer will be back as Uncle Bobby.
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Nov 13, 2021 23:40
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Okay, finally got around to Centaurworld. Huh!
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Nov 14, 2021 09:37
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And season 2 comes out in less than a month, so good timing!
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Nov 14, 2021 09:52
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DoctorWhat posted:Okay, finally got around to Centaurworld. Nice! Which metaphor for maladaptive coping mechanisms and/or hosed up poo poo in general in a (possibly? I'm not sure tbh) children's cartoon was your favorite? Mine was the assisted suicide whale, although the mass undead Taurnado comes a close second.
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Nov 14, 2021 12:33
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I'm just here for comfortable doug, a character straight out of Rude Tales of Magic
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Nov 14, 2021 17:15
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I love the jokes that are partially unsaid, like in the mid-season episode introducing the Moletaurs at one point they say "We haven't had that much fun since that other prisoner tripped and fell face first into her own birthday cake!" and it's obvious that the girl is absolutely dead as the cake is full of metal hairpins and she's still lying there. She got impaled on her escape plan.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:40
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I feel like Some Assembly Requires bridges the gap between kid humor and adult humor perfectly. "I'm gonna shnorf his head off ans shnorf down his shnorf" is awesome kid friendly censoring for a violent fantasy by a tiny person toy. Then Geneva asking "Can I take my shirt off too?" And Knox nodding like a maniac with a huge grin on his face.
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Nov 14, 2021 23:56
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Teek posted:https://twitter.com/disneyplus/status/1459198275328692228?s=20 sweet, i'm glad this was brought up cause i had a question for some people more knowledgeable about animation history than i so we all know that the 90s x-men series had some pretty crappy animation, especially the final season. and yet, just 3 short years after that, we got x-men: evolution. now while i'm no fan of the series, and it did a lot of stuff wrong, the one thing that they got right was the animation. sure, it wasn't perfect, there were some slight dips in quality here and there, but overall, it was a massive improvement over the 90s series in that department. now, you could argue that the explanation for that is quite straightforward: XM:E was done by a completely different animation studio, possibly even with a bigger budget. but my question is a bit more broad than that. it's not limited to X-men, but i noticed, especially going back and rewatching, there were a TON of action shows during the 90s that were absolute rear end. pretty much ALL the marvel shows, with the possible exception of maybe silver surfer and spiderman: unlimited. wild cats, exosquad, mortal kombat: defenders of the realm, streetfighter, toxic crusaders, mighty max, captain planet (particularly the dic episodes), king arthur and the knights of justice, etc. now yes, you could argue that some of these shows the creators probably didn't give a poo poo about and gave it the bare minimum effort (like toxic crusaders), but this also applies to well established properties like the marvel shows as well. so you could probably argue that even so, this could all be a simple matter of realizing that different production companies, hiring different animation studios wanting different things, was what caused this. but even then it wouldn't be a satisfactory explanation because something changed after 2000. i can't recall seeing any show off the top of my head in the 00s that had animation in the same galaxy of badness as the final 90s x-men episodes. now im not arguing that every animated series after 2000 was stellar, but they were at least competent. you might not be impressed, but you probably wouldn't be particularly confused or disgusted either. characters would generally be on model, the inking and painting would be inside the lines and wouldn't bleed out, any fight choreography would be fluid and you could tell what would be going on at the very least, with no egregious continuity errors, etc. i was never a huge fan of the original teen titans, but i was watching some clips on youtube, and the animation is so clean and fluid, and it was was made in 2003, as was justice league which i've praised a few times in this thread already (though tbf, the DC animated shows were ALWAYS better looking than their marvel counterparts, even in the 90s) so what changed exactly? did all the big and small studios all of a sudden decide they were going to have some minimum standards going forward? Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 14:54
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Mr Interweb posted:sweet, i'm glad this was brought up cause i had a question for some people more knowledgeable about animation history than i In the 80s, cartoons were full-length toy commercials. In the 90s, cartoons were full-length toy commercials, BUT Some shows, like Batman TAS showed that you could be some sort of toy commercial and still tell an engaging and dramatic story and start collecting awards and maybe there was more money in selling actual ads for toys during your very good cartoon than there was in toy sales for your PG Version of the Toxic Avenger All just hypothesizing, but I think its an idea that holds some water
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Nov 15, 2021 15:53
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You might need to elaborate more on what you think bad animation is. I think one big thing is that there's a spectrum between high detail and fluid animation. More detailed styles like what 90s marvel used can't flow around as well, while a lot of cartoons these days have settled on simpler styles. I think the 90s also had issues with people not quiet figuring out the economy of animation, because they had a whole lot more money to work with than previous TV cartoons, so they could just kinda have things constantly wiggling without really thinking whether they should. Possibly they might not have budgeted time to do quality control after mistakes, I dunno. X-Men: Evolution has less detailed designs than 90s X-Men (less bits on the outfits, only 2 levels of lighting instead of 4), and has a better idea of when to let chracters stay put. There's also a couple bits of X-Men: Evolution that have been rotoscoped, so that might help things seem more natural. But really, the biggest thing that happened to make animation look a whole lot better is how much can be done with computers, leaving less room for errors in working with physical things and allowing for much faster workflow. I think that you can kind of see a big changeover at some point in the 2000s where the colors of some big cartoon series all kinda shifted when they went digital. Sockser posted:In the 80s, cartoons were full-length toy commercials. In the 90s, cartoons were full-length toy commercials, BUT Yeah, TV animation went from nothing but reruns and the cheapest animation as physically possible to getting a big boom of money from the toy commercials to all of a sudden there's a bunch of money floating around for all cartoons whether they're directly connected to a product or not, and then the 90s went deep into using all that money to actually do big things, test limits, and also some cartoons rediscovered how to make cheaper, simpler cartoons with all that money rather than big epics, and I think a lot of the overambitious projects died out so that more of the lineage of the simpler cartoons lasted into the future when ambition would be rediscovered with Adventure Time and the whole wave of shows that came with it. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 16:16
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I think it's fair to say that cartoons in the 80's were very cynically produced. That's not to say good shows weren't made despite this but from what I understand the way things were done at the time was a marketing exec made a toy line, handed it to a studio, and then said "here make a cartoon out of this here's $10". That method never completely went away but as the medium showed that it could be successful on it's own terms things switched over to being creator driven where you have a person with an actual idea come to a studio with a pitch and any merchandising comes *after* the show is greenlit. I also think anime quietly played a big role where people who grew up with it in the 80's and 90's wanted to incorporate elements of it withing their own works. The original Teen Titans stands out to me as the big turning point on this one, not just in the visual style but in the way it told an ongoing story with arcs and real character development.
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Nov 15, 2021 16:37
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BTAS alone probably gets some credit for raising the bar. (Ironically that itself was a big throwback to the Fleischer Superman cartoons both in quality and style, especially with Gotham's anachronistic aesthetic) I remember it being pretty huge, having like five spinoffs/continuations not counting stuff like the movies, one of which just came out last year. It had been doing ongoing storytelling and character development, continuity and arcs from quite early on when such things were super rare in cartoons and even more rarely allowed to get satisfactory conclusions. Though Teen Titans got both praise and frothing hatred from various segments for being pretty openly incorporating anime aesthetics and themes into a Western cartoon. Like, it has a Jpop intro, Robin's pretty much a shonen protagonist (the aggro kind, rather than the cheerful kind) and there's a much heavier emphasis on personal stakes and fights as clashes of personalities even moreso than superheroes often are. (then again, hard to say who did that first) And it was on CN right during the height of Toonami.
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Nov 15, 2021 17:34
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SlothfulCobra posted:But really, the biggest thing that happened to make animation look a whole lot better is how much can be done with computers, leaving less room for errors in working with physical things and allowing for much faster workflow. I think that you can kind of see a big changeover at some point in the 2000s where the colors of some big cartoon series all kinda shifted when they went digital. For what it's worth Wiki notes Evolution was the first X-Men to use digital ink/paint.
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Nov 15, 2021 18:41
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If you look at X-Men, the character designs were based on the Jim Lee style of the comics of that era, complete with tons of shadow and extra lines everywhere. I’d imagine that’s harder to animate than something designed from the ground up to look good as a cartoon. Marvel had a great animation house in the 80s with Sunbow, which did GI JOE and the Pryde of the X-Men pilot, among other things. It was janky in terms of errors, but it was very smooth and looked much nicer than the 90s Akom stuff they did with X-Men. This new cartoon won’t feel right unless it’s that same stiff style as the original 90s show.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:20
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He's discovered Blippi again 
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Nov 16, 2021 16:00
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D34THROW posted:He's discovered Blippi again I'm on a disinformation campaign with my son where I'm trying to convince him that it's Justin Timberlake and he has fallen on hard times. He knows his mom is/was a big NSYNC fan.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:00
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Something I'm hoping to see with season 2 of Centaurworld is a reprise of Fragile Things, but the full duet and this time instead of butting heads Horse and Wammawink are complementing each others parts of the song, because they are recognising that they are all fragile things but that they will need to be fearless too as they learn to fight for themselves (but this time meant as a collective verb and not Horse's original meaning extolling individual strength).
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Nov 16, 2021 23:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh0KJImjkqcMr Interweb posted:sweet, i'm glad this was brought up cause i had a question for some people more knowledgeable about animation history than i But as to the overall question one thing you notice with all these shows being added to streaming services is that they'll have weird as hell production schedules where season 1 is like 5 episodes or 13 episodes, season 2 is like 50 or 60 something episodes, then season 3 is like 5 episodes or 13 episodes again, and you think "what the hell?" But I think the key thing is that these production schedules were really messed up and in order to suddenly ramp up like that they had to farm out all their animation to like 4 or 5 studios and some of those studios were a lot better than the others and/or a lot better able to handle getting things done on short notice.
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Nov 17, 2021 00:10
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X-Men TAS and X-Men Evolution both had 'Wolverine and Captain America in WW2' episodes and they were both pretty drat great. If Disney had any balls they'd open their big MCU reboot with exactly that. Throw in the original Human Torch for good measure.
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Nov 17, 2021 07:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:You might need to elaborate more on what you think bad animation is. I think one big thing is that there's a spectrum between high detail and fluid animation. More detailed styles like what 90s marvel used can't flow around as well, while a lot of cartoons these days have settled on simpler styles. I think the 90s also had issues with people not quiet figuring out the economy of animation, because they had a whole lot more money to work with than previous TV cartoons, so they could just kinda have things constantly wiggling without really thinking whether they should. Possibly they might not have budgeted time to do quality control after mistakes, I dunno. X-Men: Evolution has less detailed designs than 90s X-Men (less bits on the outfits, only 2 levels of lighting instead of 4), and has a better idea of when to let chracters stay put. There's also a couple bits of X-Men: Evolution that have been rotoscoped, so that might help things seem more natural. Antifa Turkeesian posted:If you look at X-Men, the character designs were based on the Jim Lee style of the comics of that era, complete with tons of shadow and extra lines everywhere. I’d imagine that’s harder to animate than something designed from the ground up to look good as a cartoon. right, so: - in the case of x-men and many of the other examples i listed, i include bad animation to be characters going off model, characters/objects bouncing around constantly morphing like they're play dough, bad inking and painting where colors bleed out the lines, lack of frames for smooth animation, needless/superfluous animation, bad fighting choreography resulting in characters/objects not moving in correct fashion*: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxolK2EzDQY&t=39s look at the entire fight between captain planet and the robots -the 90s x-men absolutely would be much more difficult to animate compared to x-men: evolution. i don't think this was ever in dispute. the 90s x-men designs are more detailed and have way more shadows and such. i personally prefer that style, but i get that animating such things would be far more work. that being said, i feel like x-men didn't do itself any favors because even with the bigger workload, it still did things like below when it came to needless animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92qHGsvZ2o0&t=400s (yes, i realize this isn't from x-men, but it's the first thing that to mind and x-men had a lot of this sort of thing as well) look at the way norman's hair and face moves when he says "mongolia". there is absolutely no need for all that poo poo going on. and a lot of the shows i'm talking about had this kind of stuff. nowadays, animators seem a bit smarter about knowing when to spend resources. the 2002 he-man series, was also very much detailed, but they handled scenes like the one above a whole lot better. Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 09:33
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Yeah I think it's worth noting that X-Men TAS and Batman TAS were contemporaries, whereas Evolution was able to learn the lessons Batman and Superman taught, which is that if you forget about trying to duplicate the look of the static comic book page and start designing for animation, you create characters that look better, smoother, and more fluid in animation and just save everyone a shitton of time. Plus it's much harder for the lowest paid studios doing all your inbetweening to screw up the basics. So you can see here, even with a poor SD quality capture of X-Men TAS, that as Mr Interweb notes, Evolution has much more simplified designs that are much easier to animate. In TAS they outline every single abdominal and pectorial muscle of the men, every breast and belly button of the women (who aren't allowed to have muscle definition), as if their costumes are painted on, because that's how the comics did it. Some of their boots will have a dozen lines, just because. Meanwhile Evo realizes that even if they're wearing some sort of form fitting jumpsuit, it's fabric, not paint, so they don't have to be detailed anatomy drawings. They're just smooth flat colors, like Batman did, and it doesn't matter because they're going to be moving anyway. There's also a lot of pairing of curved lines with angular lines, to give them energy and implied motion, another trick Batman taught.  
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Nov 17, 2021 10:15
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I mean, jumpsuit fabric wouldn't cling to curves or muscles anyway, it would mound around or stretch across them. I suppose it's a form of fanservice to make the "jumpsuits" look like body paint. They'd probably put nipples and massive defined bulges on if they could get away with it.
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Nov 17, 2021 14:55
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Yeah, when I say that the original X-Men series had 4 levels of lighting, you can see that for a lot of the series, characters had their main level of lighting, then shadows, then highlights, then the lineart was heavy enough to be shading of its own (which was a lot like how comics at the time looked, when artists were getting more advanced coloring tools but still had pretty heavy lineart because artists didn't really know how to work in harmony with the coloring, so they still did things like cross-hatching). It feels like sort of a brute-force attempt at drawing the whole thing. B:TAS definitely developed an easier style to animate, less little details to cover, more that's implied, making room to squash and stretch to show motion. Individual bits of characters either have shadows or highlights, not both at the same time. Like aside from the more subdued color scheme, there's less than half the colors on a character in B:TAS than in X-Men.   And then when they did the redesign, they cut down even more on detail, cut down a little more on the amount of colors, and made everything even more fluid for animation.  Of course, nowadays there's still things like Young Justice, which goes back to the brute-force method, so there's a lot more detail, but also much less movement, so there's a whole lot of people just stiffly standing around.    D34THROW posted:I mean, jumpsuit fabric wouldn't cling to curves or muscles anyway, it would mound around or stretch across them. I suppose it's a form of fanservice to make the "jumpsuits" look like body paint. They'd probably put nipples and massive defined bulges on if they could get away with it. Well, that comes straight from the way that the comics depicted the costumes for decades. It's only going back to like the 60s when you see superhero costumes looking and behaving more like spandex. A lot of people probably aren't even familiar with the sort of original circus outfits they were inspired by. Which might be why live-action superheroes do a bunch of ridiculous stuff to not wear spandex, like leather, sculpted rubber, or plastic/CGI armor.
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Nov 17, 2021 16:19
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They’re bringing back Earthworm Jim for some reason: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/earthworm-jim-animated-tv-series-1235114624/
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Nov 18, 2021 23:16
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Larryb posted:They’re bringing back Earthworm Jim for some reason: Well hopefully at least Doug TenNapel has nothing to do with this version.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:01
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nine-gear crow posted:Well hopefully at least Doug TenNapel has nothing to do with this version. the Interplay twitter is replying to people saying he's not involved
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Nov 19, 2021 01:06
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JoJosSiwaAdventure posted:the Interplay twitter is replying to people saying he's not involved Yup, doesn’t appear that he has anything to do with this new series: https://twitter.com/jongraywb/status/1461496140545859584?t=0glgtMWW7_8HSki_ReBCSw&s=19
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Nov 19, 2021 02:06
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Also apparently Jim will be played by someone named Michael Reed in the new cartoon, I’ve never heard of him personally: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kRQmwrXBbSk
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Nov 19, 2021 18:08
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Larryb posted:Also apparently Jim will be played by someone named Michael Reed in the new cartoon, I’ve never heard of him personally: I rather like this performance, but I'm going to need to hear a GROOVY before making a final call
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Nov 19, 2021 18:19
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Has Reed been in anything notable prior to this out of curiosity?
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Nov 19, 2021 18:21
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So there's a podcast I listen to where the hosts are currently watching Gravity Falls and, uh, it sounds like a lot of the season one episodes at least don't hold up well in regards to talking about gender or using AAVE phrases as things for charaters to randomly say as jokes.
Hexmage-SA fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 20, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2021 01:22
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Is that one of the Audio entropy podcasts. I like them. There's something fun about going over a show in podcast format and the extra scrutiny suddenly ruins it. I especially loved how miserable the Dragon Ball one turned out. Died after 22 episodes.
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Nov 20, 2021 06:15
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I mostly recall there's apparently a podcast about a couple who alternate watching Gilmore Girls and Dragon Ball Z. Mostly heard about that from a bit where the wife is confused by who this huge guy with the goofy voice that showed up in Goku and Chi-Chi's house is, and on being told that's Chi-Chi's father, she quietly says "That explains a lot."
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Nov 20, 2021 09:47
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Haha, I just realized that Amphibia is currently doing Big City Greens way better than Big City Greens.
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Nov 20, 2021 19:43
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So, Molly McGee was totally cosplaying as Chloe Price in the latest episode, right?
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Nov 22, 2021 22:45
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I mean it's Sam King so probably?
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Nov 23, 2021 05:10
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Second half of Masters of the Universe is up and it's amazing, just shotgunned the whole thing.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:10
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JT Smiley posted:Second half of Masters of the Universe is up and it's amazing, just shotgunned the whole thing. Specifically the second half of Revelation (the Kevin Smith one) is out. Not sure if we have a release date for season 2 of the CGI show yet.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:19
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