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Voting Floater posted:IIRC, didn't the writer say it was actually meant to be that the terraforming stuff brought her back to life? The effect they used for it looked extremely similar to the regeneration effects though so everyone watching took it as a regeneration. Never heard that and honestly haven't watched the story in so long I largely don't recall much about it, but sure I can run with that as an explanation. For some reason I always thought RTD wrote that episode, but checking up on it, it was Stephen Greenhorn who also did The Lazarus Experiment.
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Nov 13, 2021 10:03
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Forktoss posted:There's a lot of good stuff in The Two Doctors but I don't think it really comes together as a whole. It is a high point in Season 22 (although I do have soft spot for Revelation of the Daleks too), but I still wouldn't call it a proper no-caveats solid-quality serial of the kind you can find in almost every other season of Classic Who. I haven't seen it in ages though, it might be better than I remember! The first episode of Revelation is really interesting. Lots of running threads, the daleks (and Davros) are just there and doing stuff rather than the story building to a crescendo revealing them (although I suspect the extremely low key first appearance of a dalek is the cliffhanger in the 4 episode cut). Only issue: the Doctor and Peri are essentially in a different story as they never interact with anyone from the indoor sets. It's like the worst bits of the Davison era "loving around in the tardis for an episode and a half" but outdoors. Second episode though? Blehhhh
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Nov 13, 2021 10:43
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Jerusalem posted:His granddaughter Susan is - as far as on-screen television episodes go - still alive and well. He left her on an alternate future Earth that was recovering from a Dalek Invasion because she fell in love with a man she met there, and she was scooped out of time and later returned there by a Time Lord called Borusa in The Five Doctors as part of his quest to use all 5 of the Doctor's regenerations (note how there were only 5, not millions) up to that current time to infiltrate the tomb of Rassilon so he could discover the secret to immortality/ The secret turned out to be becoming a paving stone, a fate so horrendous that the 10th Doctor would eventually "reward" some poor woman by doing the same to her in Love & Monsters. Well gee, I really think The Doctor should check in more often with her! Also, does that mean there's still a lot of room to explore the Doctor's child who produced the grandchild? I want to criticize The Doctor here for being a bad family member, but I can't with this log in my eye and two recent nephews I've yet to see.
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Nov 13, 2021 19:05
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The Second Doctor also mentions to Victoria in an episode (Tomb of the Cybermen, I think) that the rest of his family are dead, so presumably Susan was the only living member of his family left.
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Nov 14, 2021 01:25
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https://twitter.com/JohnBishop100/status/1459563621407727616?s=20 I laughted. I don't know why but Chibnall era has produced some good memes.
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Nov 14, 2021 03:21
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Goddamn that's incredible 
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Nov 14, 2021 03:52
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Time for the further adventures of the Sugar Skull Gang!
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Nov 14, 2021 19:30
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Mass Effect: Who Edition.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:35
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The more the passenger lurks ominously the more I think about how great it would be if he takes his mask off and its tom baker.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:40
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1459815870604005384
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Nov 14, 2021 19:40
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I need the man in the top hat to understand that when I refer to him as "budget geoffrey rush" I broadly speaking mean that as a compliment.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:48
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SiKboy posted:I need the man in the top hat to understand that when I refer to him as "budget geoffrey rush" I broadly speaking mean that as a compliment. Oh man that is wonderful.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:50
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I was hoping the Grand Serpent would be a literal giant serpent or like the Space Pope or something, not some dude in a bad jacket.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:53
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They are really making the most of their green screen and harness budgets this week.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:55
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No goddammit the Cybermen shouldn't care about command and rule, they should literally only ever be obsessed with survival for its own sake and nothing else 
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Nov 14, 2021 20:04
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Jerusalem posted:No goddammit the Cybermen shouldn't care about command and rule, they should literally only ever be obsessed with survival for its own sake and nothing else Agreed.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:05
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Pretty sure the Sugar Skull Gang will have anticipated the Doctor's plan, given she is doing the same thing she did earlier to them.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:11
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"You lost me quite early on" - Direct quote from the episode, or me talking about this episode?
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Nov 14, 2021 20:11
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Well whatever theories I had about the storyline are out the window now 
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Nov 14, 2021 20:21
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Still think Ruth-Doctor is gonna be part of the interim between Troughton and Pertwee at least, but throwing in some random old lady as the true Universe Boss or whatever 3 episodes into a six part season felt like an odd choice, and as best I can gather the Sugar Skull Gang are aware the universe will fall apart and get abandoned by her in favour of a new one and they're cool with that because whatever smoking remains are left they'll get to be in charge of? Next week does look interesting though!
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Nov 14, 2021 20:26
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Mention of the Dark Times, so I'm guessing the Temple is part of Rassilon's web of time creation. Jo Martin as the Minus One Doctor again! But she doesn't really act anymore morally ambiguous or ruthless than the numbered Doctors have? The green screen seemed worse this episode. Bel was great, and Vinder has had more personality and plot development in three episodes than Yaz has in three seasons.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:35
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Okay, so. Some initial thoughts. First the good; As usual the cast are doing a power of work with the material they are handed. I'd watch the Vinder and Lassie From The Irregulars Whose Character I Dont Think Was Given A Name This Week Show, which this felt like a pilot for. Would have to maybe punch up that title a bit. The character and set design is absolutely on point. Disco Red Skull is fun as a villain. Reckon people would buy a toy of the space tamagochi which played Vinders video. I feel like john bishop probably had the time of his life pretending to be a space marine for a day. I like Ruth!Doc. The Bad: Theres no kind way to put this, but... Writing a coherent story with nonlinear time is hugely difficult. Chibnell struggles telling a compelling doctor who story with a conventional linear timeline. What on earth made him thought he could pull this off I have no idea. There was no real through line, stuff just kind of happened. While Vinders stuff was at least flashbacks that gave you some idea who the character was, Dans stuff revealed nothing that we didnt know from the first episode (he fancies the woman from the museum! He's from Liverpool!) and Yas' told us nothing interesting or useful at all. She's the only returning companion from last season, how is she STILL given gently caress all? The passenger was revealed (extremely quickly through dialogue) as being... A container for captive life forces? Or something? Way less interesting that I was hoping. Fan servicey villain cameos kind of backfired for me. As Jerusalem mentioned they got the cybermens motivation badly wrong, the Daleks were so brief and pointless that its only going to fuel that old "Daleks must legally appear at least once a season!" rumor, and the angels at the end... Okay, someone needs to remind the writers that the angels dont move every time anyone blinks. They move when no-one is watching them at all. Thats why the rest pose is covering their eyes, so they dont accidently lock each other by looking. If there are 3 people in the control room one angel shouldnt be a threat at all. Now they immediately solved this by having the lights flash off, but the initial "dont blink!" (it moves) "I think I blinked!" thing was really silly. I still think Ruth!Doc being a pre-hartnell incarnation of the doctor is an incredibly bad idea, and, like all the timeless child stuff, reeks of someone being absolutely desperate to leave a permenant mark on the show without having the skill to do it by writing something good enough that future writers will call back to it. RTD resurrected the show. Moffat created the Weeping Angels. Chibnell... retconned things from before he was actually born. Basically I'd put this on par with two weeks ago. It was a bad episode, a badly written story, with threads of like... 3 other, better, episodes mashed together. Now, writing yourself an excuse to have an incoherent story doesnt make the story any less incoherent. The cast deserve better than this nonsense.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:43
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Especially with how wonderfully done the War Doctor was, Ruth seems like Chibnall rushing in and shouting "wait, I can do that too!". Which is a shame, because Jo Martin has been outstanding in all of her screentime. The timestream stuff felt like "The Name of the Doctor" but less satisfying.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:49
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Seriously, it's so simple to get the horrific pointlessness of the Cybermen right it bewilders me that the show almost never does: "You're conquering territory, why? For what purpose?" "We must survive." "Okay... and then what?" "We must survive." "Why?" "WE MUZZZT SURVIVE!" They exist to survive. That's it. The original desire by Mondasians to extend their lives out longer has been warped and twisted into a horrifying hollow existence where all the Cybermen know is that they have an unbreakable imperative that they must survive. Not for any reason, not for any purpose, they simply must. THEY MUZZZT! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 14, 2021 |
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Nov 14, 2021 20:53
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There's just gonna be a lot of people standing 2 meters apart in front of a green screen talking while VFX comped together on someone's laptop wizzes around in the background. The production values have been the one thing that's just straight up objectively better since Chibnall took over, it's not like the team hasn't demonstrated that they know what they're doing. We're just gonna have to make our peace with that for the next couple years as TV shot in the height of lockdown gets released. Loki was a perfect example, you could see the exact episode where lockdowns hit because suddenly they were all sitting in chairs 2 meters apart while the camera desperately bounced around trying to give the illusion of the pace of the rest of the show. Show wise it's....fine. I still have no idea why Yaz is in the show, she's been completely sidelined again and apparently only exists for the Doctor to snap at when she asks reasonable questions. Dan has gotten more fleshing out in 3 episodes than Yaz has in 3 seasons, and is a better character for it. Apart from that, there's just too much going on to really engage with any of it. They're setting up a big mystery puzzle box about the Doctor's history with The Division AND fleshing out Dan AND Space Commander guys backstory AND his partners adventures AND fleshing out the universe post flux AND whatever the thing about the big gimps who eat souls or whatever? Also the hints that the Doctor caused the Flux or something? Also there's time eating bugs and a crazy man with a laser gun in a bunker. No one part was bad, but wow did that go at a pace.
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Nov 14, 2021 21:17
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"And of course, Big Finish never let a property die...." 
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Nov 14, 2021 21:23
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Jerusalem posted:Seriously, it's so simple to get the horrific pointlessness of the Cybermen right it bewilders me that the show almost never does: Honestly, that was such a perfect set-up for that dialogue that I was genuinely excited waiting for it to be the pay-off. Chibnall's easily enough of a Who nerd to know that too. For shame. Yaz's sister continues to be far more entertaining and better characterised than Yaz, despite having had a fraction of the screentime. I'm liking Vinder and I was happy that we got an answer on who the random woman was within the episode, since I was expecting that to be yet another thread to be maybe answered in episode 6. I am also disappointed that the grand serpent didn't turn out to be a literal massive snake though.
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Nov 14, 2021 21:30
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Happy anniversary to Night of the Doctor and happy birthday to Paul McGann
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Nov 14, 2021 21:40
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Huh, the recon of 'Galaxy 4' is out tomorrow. Must get a co- [sees prices online] Okay, I can wait a bit longer for the Chumblies. Who pays £15-20 for a DVD any more? Well, apart from Peter Capaldi, presumably.
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Nov 14, 2021 23:50
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That was noticeably less entertaining than the last couple of weeks.
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Nov 15, 2021 00:20
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Okay, new crazy theory based on very little actual information time since my last one has been so soundly destroyed now: Bel and Vinder's kid is gonna end up being the Timeless Child and it turns out this was all a big ol' loop that allows Not-Rassilon to figure out regeneration, that eventually leads to the Doctor meeting Vinder and eventually Bel and they stop the flux and the kid gets ejected out of the now discarded time-crazy timeline and meets Not-Rassilon who figures out regeneration that eventually leads to the Doctor meeting etc etc How does the Master and his bullshit made-up story about the Doctor being the Timeless Child fit into all this? Well it turns out, shock of shocks, the Master lied. I look forward to next week when I discard this theory and come up with some entirely new mad and bizarre idea that will in turn quickly be discarded.
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Nov 15, 2021 01:55
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Yeah, it’s just bobbling along on ‘alright’ but it’s starting to creak a little, threatening to unravel a lot. We’re already at the halfway point, and things should start being answered. I do vaguely like the idea of a pre-history war between Time and Space, it’s quite a hard sci-fi concept that borders on the headache-inducing when you start to think about it. Unfortunately it’s got Chibnall behind it, so I have no confidence in actually drawing any decent or exciting story out of it. The dialogue itself seemed unclear about who was fighting what side and for what cause. One thing I did note was the cinematography about the Mysterious Woman. The camera was super tight around her and the Doctor, not giving any hint of what was surrounding them. I’m assuming it’s deliberate so as not to give the game away about something (or maybe I’m over-thinking it).
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Nov 15, 2021 01:59
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OldMemes posted:Especially with how wonderfully done the War Doctor was, Ruth seems like Chibnall rushing in and shouting "wait, I can do that too!". Which is a shame, because Jo Martin has been outstanding in all of her screentime. The timestream stuff felt like "The Name of the Doctor" but less satisfying. I think she would have been an amazing choice for 14 instead of Fugitive Doc. I just really loving hate everything about the Timeless Child and the fact there are Doctors before Hartnell. It cheapens the lore, and felt like Martin was 'just' wheeled out to show a POC woman in the role. Liie yeah nah mate, it's 2021 your fanbase is 110% onboard with progressive casting and messaging, just write a good story while you do it. Can you imagine how much better it would have been to just straight up casually drop the 14 reveal mid-season? The reaction would have been insane.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:08
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This one was pretty messy. I reiterate that I keep seeing connections to Death's End, though. I feel like Chibnal read The Three Body Problem series and deceided that he wanted to write a story where The Doctor interacts with some of these premises.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:16
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There were no Doctors before Hartnell, he was the first (the original, you might say!*), Ruth-Doctor is gonna end up having been one of the many iterations the Time Lords forced on the 2nd Doctor before he was finally released and became the official 3rd Doctor, which will FINALLY explain the question people have been asking for decades** as to why the poor brain damaged 3rd Doctor kept referring to himself as having been alive for thousands of years when Troughton made it clear he was "only" in his 400s. * A line read by an actor cast as a replacement for William Hartnell  ** Nobody has ever asked this question.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:26
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A few observations: 1. Yaz saying the events she appeared in aren't a part of her timestream. Unclear how that is going to be important, but it will be. 2. Dan's house is near/at the site of the Williamson Tunnels. They're going to be important. I am still hopeful Dan's shrunken home will be, too. 3. Chibnall has been rewatching The Time Monster. 4. Space and Time are at odds, but the mission is Love. 5. Everyone is assuming that the Division is in the Doctor's past. The evidence seems to be hinting at that: Karvanista is a "survivor from the Division" and we now know he was at the Temple of Atropos when Jo Doctor seized it. The Division is in Gallifrey's past. The Division no longer exists. The Doctor suggested to the Mouri that they use the same plan as "before," but she's standing in the Timestream and she has no memory of the Jo Doctor's experiences. How do we know for certain that she's in the Doctor's past, and not her future? Our Doctor might not remember the first battle against Swarm across Space and Time because she's only now fighting it. (Then again, it's Chibnall, so this might be a twist he isn't capable of.) If Time isn't linear, then the second thing could precede the first. 6. What if Swarm escaped because of events which happened subsequent to his escape? In other words, the Flux enabled the escape, and not the escape the Flux. If that's so, then it's possible the Flux is indeed the Doctor's doing. 7. The woman the Doctor met who said the universe is coming to an end could be Chaos. We're in a stasis vs ending/Order vs Chaos model here which throws in Space and Time for good measure, and the Doctor has got to find an alternative to all these dyads. Atropos is the end, death, conclusion, so the Temple of Atropos needs something to balance it out. Williamson seems to be building something, and he put in a brief appearance on the planet Time. 8. If temporal events are scrambled, Jo Doctor could be working to save Jodie Doctor. We know she's out there. 9. If Yaz experienced events that never happened in her past, and the context makes clear that they're unlikely to have been in her future, what's the alternative? Either someone constructs new history and Yaz was seeing part of that, or Yaz had part of her timestream disrupted/eaten. For the latter possibility, we saw the Angel right there. 10. I'm going to be disappointed in the whole "Angels are on the Doctor's side this time" thing, aren't I?
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Nov 15, 2021 03:38
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I liked the bit where the Doctor, Yaz, Dan and Vinder stood in for other people, that sort of thing just tickles my fancy bone, but the rest really hinges on landing the bird and I don't trust Chibnall to pull it off, do you?
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Nov 15, 2021 03:46
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3 down, 3 to go. Also, I keep hearing Atropos as Adipose.
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Nov 15, 2021 06:26
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What a fun clusterfuck of people and places changing every few minutes
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Nov 15, 2021 07:17
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See I liked this episode better than the past ones. We're starting to see more of the form of what's happening even if the specifics still aren't explained to us, it involves something the Doctor did in her Division years, various other species are just trying to do what they do in the midst of the chaos- everyone's trying to rule in Hell, basically. I kinda like that.
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Nov 15, 2021 07:25
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