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Hey all, have had a rock solid set up in my home off an UnRaid server to a few older 1080p TVs for years. Finally broke the bank and picked up an 85" QLED 4K HDR goodness and looking to up my library game on a few select titles to match. So I grabbed a few 2160p titles and am having some very mixed results and need some help in guiding my troubleshooting. Everything is hard wired from my AppleTV 4K (newest one) to the UnRaid server over gigabit and Plex dashboard confirms they're all being Direct played so the server CPU and such SHOULDN'T be a factor. Some titles are playing just fine (Plex says 32Mbps, file size 17-24gb) and others buffer every 20-30 seconds (70Mbps, but the graph shows 300-400mbps, file size 35gb) or completely go frame by frame (92Mpbs, graph show 500-600, file size 40gb). I'm a bit behind the times on current encoding standards and bitrates. Where should I begin looking at? Are the titles TOO high of a quality? Should I investigate my network connections to make sure they can truly operate at Gbps speeds? Is the NAS hardware actually at play here? I'd have hoped that a high-functioning NAS (dual older XEONs with 64gb RAM) and gigabit to a brand new ATV4k should be able to handle direct playing these, but perhaps my expectations are too high. Thanks in advance for some direction. Would LOVE to carry forward my existing structure and have a smaller curated library of super high quality content, but if this isn't in the cards I'll just plunk down for an UHD bluray player.
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Nov 15, 2021 01:24
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TraderStav posted:Hey all, have had a rock solid set up in my home off an UnRaid server to a few older 1080p TVs for years. Finally broke the bank and picked up an 85" QLED 4K HDR goodness and looking to up my library game on a few select titles to match. So I grabbed a few 2160p titles and am having some very mixed results and need some help in guiding my troubleshooting. Everything is hard wired from my AppleTV 4K (newest one) to the UnRaid server over gigabit and Plex dashboard confirms they're all being Direct played so the server CPU and such SHOULDN'T be a factor. Your setup looks pretty good if it is direct playing. Are you by chance using subtitles? If so what kind? Subtitles can really throw a wrench when playing files because it has to sometimes burn them and causes transcoding.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:06
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Burden posted:Your setup looks pretty good if it is direct playing. Are you by chance using subtitles? If so what kind? Subtitles can really throw a wrench when playing files because it has to sometimes burn them and causes transcoding. Nope, no subtitles. Seems like different movies are transferred at different speeds. Matrix just came down at 17.1GB but showed up at 103Mpbs in Plex Dashboard. Stuttered every frame. My sab is going crazy unpacking so maybe I'll retry this when the server is otherwise idle, but still don't think that's the issue. Perhaps a codec that the ATV doesn't agree with?
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Nov 15, 2021 03:18
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I get the occasional title that acts up on my Apple TV but it’s pretty rare these days. That Matrix release sounds pretty heavily reencoded if it’s 17gb and it’s possible the group that did it made an encoding choice the ATV doesn’t like, maybe go big and grab the remux and then you’ll know it’s how it was on the disc at least. I don’t use a NAS to serve (instead a Mac Mini with a DAS hanging off it) but other than that it’s a similar setup to my main one.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:34
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I glossed over most of the post but try infuse if you have an Apple TV
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Nov 15, 2021 03:44
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EL BROMANCE posted:I get the occasional title that acts up on my Apple TV but it’s pretty rare these days. That Matrix release sounds pretty heavily reencoded if it’s 17gb and it’s possible the group that did it made an encoding choice the ATV doesn’t like, maybe go big and grab the remux and then you’ll know it’s how it was on the disc at least. Thanks, sounds like it may be release dependent and lots of trial and error then. Unless there's a way to suss these out ahead of time. I'll continue to play. Thanks! kri kri posted:I glossed over most of the post but try infuse if you have an Apple TV Thanks, will take a look. Since this is only local play a separate program for just the highest quality wouldn't muck everything up at all.
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Nov 15, 2021 03:53
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Holy moley I think InFuse was the answer, or better said the AppleTV Plex app was no good. It's ripping through Matrix with no problem, one quick buffer at the start and so far nothing. I nuked a few of the other files anticipating those releases were bad. Need to pull down again and see if this works. Thanks, this may just do the trick nicely!
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Nov 15, 2021 04:13
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Are you using the "enhanced" player in Plex? I don't remember if this a Plex-pass only option, but I've had better results with high bitrate files in the enhanced player vs the stock tvOS player. The downside is that the enhanced player doesn't support spatial audio when I'm using AirPods, but that's pretty much an edge-case problem.
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Nov 15, 2021 04:44
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I think enhanced got passed down to regular users now and is on by default.
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Nov 15, 2021 05:01
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Infuse is a great player for 4K files on appleTV , can’t recommend it highly enough.
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Nov 15, 2021 05:05
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Delzuma posted:Infuse is a great player for 4K files on appleTV , can’t recommend it highly enough. Good suggestion. I have limited 4K Plex experience because I’ve never been able to get any 4K content to play on my AppleTV 4K Plex app. Plex will play 4K content on my AppleTV HD, iPhone, iPad, and Mac. Other apps like HBO Max will play 4K HDR content on the AppleTV 4K just fine. But the Plex app won’t play any 4K content and always just shows the timeline stuck at either 4 or 8 seconds. I had given up because I got tired of wasting time and bandwidth on huge files that I couldn’t get to work. But based on the recent conversations in thread I gave Infuse a try and it played the handful of files I had immediately. Not thrilled to have to subscribe to another app to get something to work that Plex should do oh well I guess.
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Nov 16, 2021 01:41
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Violator posted:Good suggestion. You don’t need to sub just purchase the one-time purchase
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Nov 16, 2021 02:12
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kri kri posted:You don’t need to sub just purchase the one-time purchase $80 for the lifetime purchase or $10 a year. I’m leaning towards doing yearly and then hoping Plex can play 4K more reliably within the next few years since I only need the app for one device.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:19
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MrMC can do 4K, too, and is cheaper. It’s Kodi without plugins, so it can be listed on the App Store.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:40
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Wonder if we can get to the bottom of why some people have issues with 4K stuff on A4K and others don’t. I have a bunch of stuff from various sources (all untouched, either web or disc) that I haven’t had time to play. I’ll throw em on for 5 minutes each this week and see how many play fine and if any have issues. Looking deep into these things can help, before there was a problem with discs that had 3reference frame encodes. Remuxes of these would play like garbage on a few platforms (ATV and Shield included), but it was correlated and fixed.
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Nov 16, 2021 06:10
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There's a lot of stuff involved with 4K x265 encodes in particular that's very finnicky. Bitrates can hit some pretty high points in some encodes which can be beyond what some devices like the Apple 4K are designed to handle. They can bottleneck/buffer or screw up the playback even if the network itself is powerful enough to handle the transferring of the actual data. The same can happen with 1080p x264 encodes on some (especially non-4K) devices but is rarer and is where the "level" setting comes into play, which basically forces certain limitations with the encode in terms of data volume, like it's considered safest to encode 1080p x264 with level 4.0 which caps the video bitrate at 25 megabits per second. I know that Dolby Vision is a whole other can of worms because there are numerous ways it can be encoded and most streaming devices can only do a subset of them.
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Nov 16, 2021 15:12
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I think I figured it out? Did some googling and found this: https://techidaily.com/plex-not-play-4k-with-atv4k/ quote:4K/UHD content matching the following will Direct Play on Apple TV 4K: I checked all three (wow! big collection!) 4K files I have that don't work and the resolution, encoding, and frame rate where at or below those specs. But each had a Video Bit Depth of 10. I then downloaded some sample 4K files: https://4kmedia.org/the-world-in-hdr-uhd-4k-demo/ (10 bit depth) https://4kmedia.org/into-the-cave-of-wonders-uhd-4k-demo/ (8 bit depth) Plex played the 8 bit depth file immediately but froze on the 10 bit depth file just like the three 4k files in my collection. Can anyone confirm that they can play 4k 10-bit files in Plex on an AppleTV4k? Or is this potentially the issue?
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Nov 16, 2021 17:20
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Limiting my 4K activities to discs and streaming for the time being, there's just so many wrinkles between encoding, Plex, and client devices. Even bigger mess than 1080p in '07 or so.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:22
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TheScott2K posted:Limiting my 4K activities to discs and streaming for the time being, there's just so many wrinkles between encoding, Plex, and client devices. Even bigger mess than 1080p in '07 or so. I'm definitely similar, but I've had better luck recently. Still, the only 4K stuff I have on Plex is largely stuff that isn't available to me on either disc or a streaming service, which in my case does include some fringe things like French dubs of stuff where they're absent via other methods.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:31
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Say I have two versions of what is essentially the same movie on discs -- for example, the extended version of the LOTR movies, and the corresponding theatrical version. Plex matches to the title, but what if I want both versions available? Is there a built-in mechanism for having this or do I need to "create" separate versions in Plex somehow?
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Nov 16, 2021 20:57
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Sand Monster posted:Say I have two versions of what is essentially the same movie on discs -- for example, the extended version of the LOTR movies, and the corresponding theatrical version. Plex matches to the title, but what if I want both versions available? Is there a built-in mechanism for having this or do I need to "create" separate versions in Plex somehow? There isn't an automatic way to do it, but you can "split movie" which will give you two (or more) identical copies each pointing to a different file. Go into the properties to confirm which item is pointing to which file and manually update the metadata accordingly, usually movies will at minimum offer alternate cover art for each cut. 
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Nov 16, 2021 21:04
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Violator posted:Can anyone confirm that they can play 4k 10-bit files in Plex on an AppleTV4k? Or is this potentially the issue? Not going to be as simple as that I don't think, 10bit is pretty much the default for stuff being remuxed off discs. I also (non 4K, mind) do all my blu-ray stuff to HEVC 10bit with no issue.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:27
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Is there a way to make Windows 11 queue up moving of large remux files? It's real dumb, Windows just auto-moves them all at once simultaneously, causing everything to run horrifically slow. The only way around it is to pause and then re-enable each individual file move as it goes across the server, which is... ok? But pretty dumb
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Nov 17, 2021 00:42
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Taima posted:Is there a way to make Windows 11 queue up moving of large remux files? Windows doesn't auto move anything. I assume you are copying files? Then select select the ones you need and copy/cut paste them together.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:38
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Has anyone had any success getting Atmos or 5.1 music tracks to play over Plex through AppleTV? I have an Atmos .mka music file and some 5.1 .flac files. Both of them are recognized in Plex and their metadata correctly reads 7.1 or 5.1, but when I play them through Apple TV, my receiver only sees a Stereo signal. Despite the Plex dashboard claiming it is Direct Play-ing a 5.1 or 7.1 signal. The only thing I can think of is maybe there's a bug (or feature?) in the tvOS Plex player where when it is playing a music (as opposed to video) file, it automatically defaults to stereo output?
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Nov 17, 2021 04:58
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Gonna put that down to the Achilles heel of Apple TV ownership, and them just being real pains in the butt over regulating what audio signals can be sent. It’s the single bad aspect of the device imo.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:13
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Yeah, I know AppleTV kinda sucks in that I can't bitstream audio to the receiver. But it has usable workarounds for 5.1/Atmos audio when it's part of a (usually .mkv) video file. So it's weird that these aren't working. When I have access to my TV again, I'll have to try them in the TV's built-in Plex app to see if they work there. They would be going over eARC from the TV to the receiver, so that might have it's own problems. Also, my first instinct when running into the problem was to try Infuse. And that's how I learned that Infuse apparently doesn't support audio-only files.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:33
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Oh lord, earc Apple TV and atmos… that’s a tricky combo for sure! I didn’t know that about infuse either, intriguing. Maybe suggest it on their forum? Going back to previous chat, I tried a bunch of unplayed 4K files today and each one of them seemed to have no issue. Tried one I know caused issues beforehand and yep, crashed straight to the ATV menu so nothing much has changed compatibility wise I think.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:39
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Taima posted:Is there a way to make Windows 11 queue up moving of large remux files? Get something like Teracopy that lets you queue up files to move sequentially instead of all at once. https://www.codesector.com/teracopy
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Nov 17, 2021 06:00
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EL BROMANCE posted:Not going to be as simple as that I don't think, 10bit is pretty much the default for stuff being remuxed off discs. I also (non 4K, mind) do all my blu-ray stuff to HEVC 10bit with no issue. drat. Digging deeper into it. Whenever I try to play a 4k video in Plex on the AppleTV 4k, I see this in the Technical Details pull-down: quote:Source: Transcode The bitrate is different for each file. I have tried: - 'Disable video stream transcoding' in settings to force transcoding not to happen, get same error - 'Transcoder Quality: Prefer higher quality encoding' and 'Use hardware acceleration when available' to avoid the "...when Automatically adjust..." error, get same error I turned on verbose logging and am not getting any errors. But I do see this: quote:[Transcode] MDE: Selected protocol hls; container: mp4 and here is the file info that seems relevant: quote:Bitrate 47935 kbps Any suggestions? I'm close to giving up and just using Infuse for 4k content since this seems like a potential rabbit hole that may not be worth going down. Just so weird that these files play on every other device, including an older AppleTV HD.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:43
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I want to drop a big friendly "howdy" to anyone just joining this thread because of Star Trek: Discovery!
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Nov 17, 2021 18:48
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Violator posted:drat. Digging deeper into it. Whenever I try to play a 4k video in Plex on the AppleTV 4k, I see this in the Technical Details pull-down: Grab a copy of MediaInfo, put it into text mode and stick a file in and dump what it spits out in here. Maybe someone will spot something that is triggering the issues. A 480p HEVC file really shouldn’t cause any headaches on a modern Apple TV, but something must be wonky.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:06
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Violator posted:Player: AVPlayer, The Enhanced Video Player cannot be used when Automatically Adjust Quality is enabled Have you already tried taking it off of 'automatically adjust quality' and using the enhanced player, instead? This seems like the root issue. e: quote:The bitrate is different for each file. I have tried: Is your Plex client set to not automatically adjust quality? It sounds like you're only adjusting server settings there.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:31
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Ah yeah you shouldn’t need it to be adjusting quality on a stable home network. You’d think it wouldn’t have to kick in because of those levels, but if it can’t run the enhanced player full stop that’s definitely not a good thing.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:00
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astral posted:Is your Plex client set to not automatically adjust quality? It sounds like you're only adjusting server settings there. Well gently caress me, that was it. Thanks very much guys, I really appreciate the help in getting this figured out. It's been bugging me for months but I didn't really know where to dig into. This is wonderful.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:09
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If I have an UltraHD Bluray rip in iso, what's the best approach to getting it to play in Plex at the highest quality if space isn't a concern? Handbrake into an MKV? Are there certain settings that I should configure to make sure it plays the best?
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Nov 20, 2021 21:31
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TraderStav posted:If I have an UltraHD Bluray rip in iso, what's the best approach to getting it to play in Plex at the highest quality if space isn't a concern? Handbrake into an MKV? Are there certain settings that I should configure to make sure it plays the best? This depends on your client's ability to direct play raw UltraHD material. You can use MKVToolNix to do a 1:1 Remux of the contents (which would give you an HDR10 version of the film). In my experience the video itself generally can play OK but if you're playing to wireless devices the bitrate might be too spicy for that and require a re-encode. Audio is spottier, you might need to stick with Dolby Digital 5.1. Subtitles you'll need to OCR into SRT format, although if you're re-encoding you can burn them into the screen.
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Nov 20, 2021 21:53
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univbee posted:This depends on your client's ability to direct play raw UltraHD material. You can use MKVToolNix to do a 1:1 Remux of the contents (which would give you an HDR10 version of the film). In my experience the video itself generally can play OK but if you're playing to wireless devices the bitrate might be too spicy for that and require a re-encode. Audio is spottier, you might need to stick with Dolby Digital 5.1. Subtitles you'll need to OCR into SRT format, although if you're re-encoding you can burn them into the screen. Thanks for the quick response and some stuff to go on for my own research. The playback device is a hardwired 2021 AppleTV. If the movie has Atmos should I not even bother still in this situation?
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Nov 20, 2021 21:58
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TraderStav posted:Thanks for the quick response and some stuff to go on for my own research. The playback device is a hardwired 2021 AppleTV. If the movie has Atmos should I not even bother still in this situation? I don't believe it works in the format that's on UHD Blu-rays (it does on webrips with DDP-style Atmos) but I might be wrong on that, you can always do a test remux since it only takes a few minutes and see what results that gives you.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:05
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univbee posted:I don't believe it works in the format that's on UHD Blu-rays (it does on webrips with DDP-style Atmos) but I might be wrong on that, you can always do a test remux since it only takes a few minutes and see what results that gives you. Thanks! I'll play around.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:13
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