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nothing shows empathy better than going off on your own to go mope about how sad you are about your friends being upset
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Nov 15, 2021 07:26
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Absolutely incredible that instead of sticking around to keep his despondent friends company, even if all he can offer them is the knowledge he's there for them in their lowest moments, he walks down a very long pier to write about how everything is the lake witch's fault. I could maybe understand him walking away if he was so upset that he had vent privately before he did something hasty, but nothing about his tone or body language (what little there is) suggests that kind of fury. His diary ends with the tone of someone who wants to speak to the store manager because they don't have their favorite chips in stock.
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Nov 15, 2021 07:27
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Also he's not going to help them cope with their actual problems, he's going to whine at someone who acknowledged them.
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Nov 15, 2021 07:36
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MiracleFlare posted:Absolutely incredible that instead of sticking around to keep his despondent friends company, even if all he can offer them is the knowledge he's there for them in their lowest moments, he walks down a very long pier to write about how everything is the lake witch's fault. Fixed that for you.
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Nov 15, 2021 08:36
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does anyone even remember why theyre here? I dont
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Nov 15, 2021 08:50
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Billy Gnosis posted:Also he's not going to help them cope with their actual problems, he's going to whine at someone who acknowledged them. The acknowledgement of conflict and problems in the deeganverse is heretical.
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Nov 15, 2021 08:50
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all i know is that page cant have taken any longer to create than a half hour, an hour tops
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Nov 15, 2021 08:57
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This is possibly the worst direction you can take a strip where the main character can't hear or talk and everyone has to communicate through writing things down. Like, you can't have a spontaneous exchange of deep and nuanced ideas if everyone has to take a minute to scribble down what they're thinking, wait for a response, then scribble down theirs, etc. We learned this in the big scene where Corpselady gets her speech back. This is why actual hearing impaired people invented sign language! (I assume, there's no real set point in history that this was invented apparently.) If you're not going to go that route, if Snout is going to remain just unable to understand any communication other than text, don't drag the characters into existential discussions of abstract feelings of unease.
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Nov 15, 2021 09:11
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It's it high fantasy setting with swords and demons and magic and about half the comic is characters communicating via handwritten tweets.
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Nov 15, 2021 09:54
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Right and this is contributing to the glacial pace, because Mookie will realize that he hasn't explained half of what the people were wordlessly talking to each other about and take another three strips to explain "I am sad because I have no identity." (On that note, hey Corpsewife, join the club.)
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Nov 15, 2021 10:08
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Those first two sentences are doing my nut in.
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Nov 15, 2021 11:28
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I cannot believe that the central conflict of this entire arc is that someone was mean to Snout's friends and made then sad How could it have been anything else?
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Nov 15, 2021 12:28
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I cannot believe that the central conflict of this entire arc is that someone was mean to Snout's friends and made then sad …and he didn’t notice or care until several hours later.
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Nov 15, 2021 12:47
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Synthbuttrange posted:does anyone even remember why theyre here? I dont Arduak wanted to talk to her because he thought she would have useful advice. ...and, honestly? Assuming that the chandak was telling the truth, telling Arudak to be sure he's not in love with a 'perfect waifu' version of his wife that he made up in his head after she died and telling Canada that she should consider strongly what she wants to be/do with the life she's been given is pretty useful advice.
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Nov 15, 2021 13:17
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He didn’t have to walk away to write that. He could’ve just stuck around and keep them company and be supportive that way. What the gently caress Mookie
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Nov 15, 2021 13:29
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Marin Karin posted:nothing shows empathy better than going off on your own to go mope about how sad you are about your friends being upset it's funny cuz like, usually ditching your hurt loved ones in their moment of need to go on some ill-conceived revenge quest is considered some toxic masculinity kinda thing because it's a way of pushing away your own thoughts of impotence and inadequacy, putting your own feelings above theirs don't worry though snout is a softboy so he can't be toxic
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Nov 15, 2021 13:47
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You know, if this whole thing is about confronting people with their personal inner fears, it's really something that Snout's was "these people are holding me back", despite his immediately dismissing it.
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Nov 15, 2021 13:47
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Emrikol posted:You know, if this whole thing is about confronting people with their personal inner fears, it's really something that Snout's was "these people are holding me back", despite his immediately dismissing it. If anything, it should be that Snout is afraid he's holding THEM back and is just being pandered to by them because he's dumb and helpless. But Mookie seems unwilling to acknowledge that in the comic, aside from the mean orc guy and a joke from Sunflower. Honestly, we have no idea what the others think of Snout or why they feel the need to have him tag along, and Mookie seems rather incurious about exploring it. I think he honestly feels like it's an answered question so he's not going to address it again.
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Nov 15, 2021 15:11
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It feels very childish of Snout to think these feelings are something the chandak can just magically fix. Is he about to march over there and demand she apologize like that’ll make everything better.
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Nov 15, 2021 15:18
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Rotten Red Rod posted:If anything, it should be that Snout is afraid he's holding THEM back and is just being pandered to by them because he's dumb and helpless. But Mookie seems unwilling to acknowledge that in the comic, aside from the mean orc guy and a joke from Sunflower. We're straight back to yet another example of Mookie's on-the-fly improvisation leading to related ideas being unrelated within the story. Mookie already had Snout worry about being stupid and useless at Arudak's tower and needing some time to mope before recovering his resolve. Now here we are, in an arc in which a shaman forces the gang to confront their emotional fears, leading to everyone moping while they work through it.
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Nov 15, 2021 15:38
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Calling it now, she will say "I told everyone what they needed to hear ;¬]" This is a line from the Matrix from when Neo meets the Oracle ;¬]
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Nov 15, 2021 16:26
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That or she'll just straight up admit "I'm testing them to see if they're strong enough to overcome their fears" which in a better comic would make her go "You really couldn't figure that out? God you're stupid."
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Nov 15, 2021 16:45
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Twelve by Pies posted:That or she'll just straight up admit "I'm testing them to see if they're strong enough to overcome their fears" which in a better comic would make her go "You really couldn't figure that out? God you're stupid." Snout is stupid. This has actually been confirmed by people who were not jerks, and even the jerk wasn't bad for thinking it, but for saying it.
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Nov 15, 2021 17:05
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Surely this chandak didn't destroy 3/4 of your team's psyche, then treat you like a special boy who should come see her alone isn't a trap or anything. Snout's little tag should be changed to "DUNCE"
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Nov 15, 2021 18:36
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Having an idiot protagonist isn't a problem. Goku isn't very smart but he's still a good character. Having an idiot protagonist with an additional disability and implying they're an idiot because of their unrelated disability is gross as gently caress, though. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 19:14
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Mx. posted:are u prepared for excitement This is a comic without dialogue.
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Nov 15, 2021 19:35
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Hang on, is the idea that Snout is now mad on behalf of his friends at someone being mean to them and telling them harsh truths(?) because they were mad earlier at someone who was mean to him by telling him harsh truths?
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Nov 15, 2021 19:49
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Honestly I think Mookie has completely forgotten the genius orc guy exists. He was unceremoniously booted from the comic offscreen and hasn't seemed to be a factor at all in the story since. Snout's relationship with his friends now is in no way influenced by that experience, it seems, or else HE'D be the one worried he's holing THEM back.
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Nov 15, 2021 19:59
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Emrikol posted:Snout is stupid. This has actually been confirmed by people who were not jerks, and even the jerk wasn't bad for thinking it, but for saying it. Nah the sunflower guy said it too, it's just he called Snout stupid in a nice way, "You shall be remembered more for your kindness than your learning" or whatever. PoptartsNinja posted:Having an idiot protagonist isn't a problem. Goku isn't very smart but he's still a good character. Idiot protagonists work if they have other strengths, like kindness (actual kindness, not what Legacy is trying to pass off as kindness), heroism, even just pure strength. Goku isn't very smart but he puts his life on the line to defend Earth and he's strong enough to succeed at it. There's also the cliche of someone who's not booksmart and seems like an idiot but they have good insight into situations and a point of view others wouldn't consider, and can end up being very wise even if they're not very smart. Or sometimes even a gag of they're so dumb that every once in a while how dumb they are ends up accidentally being incredibly smart. Snout has none of this though. He doesn't actually care about his "friends" despite the claims that he does, this was obvious when he completely ignored their sadness because "oooh new town oooh vegetables ooh fishing!" and is refusing to spend time with them and instead talking about how upset he is that seaweed orc mad them sad. So he's gonna give her a piece of his mind! Oh wait, nope, can't have that, he's a Nice Guy so he can't actually be mad and confrontational. Like he can't even be justifiably angry. He also isn't strong or heroic, and so far hasn't even been accidentally smart. He used to have some ingenuity, back in the Wild Edge when he was planning how to get the sap from the evil tree, but that basically disappeared as soon as Ink Witch started tagging along with him. He doesn't have a single trait to balance out his idiocy. He's basically a comic relief character who's somehow become the protagonist, like if the Simpsons made Cletus the main character. Rotten Red Rod posted:Honestly I think Mookie has completely forgotten the genius orc guy exists. He was unceremoniously booted from the comic offscreen and hasn't seemed to be a factor at all in the story since. At least he actually did something in the story, even if it didn't last more than a few pages. That's more than can be said for Thelonius Funk, who did literally nothing and existed just to say "Hey there is a second black character that exists in this world."
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Nov 15, 2021 20:26
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Character is defined through actions so naturally the characters have no weight if nobody in the entire strip ever does a drat thing
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Nov 15, 2021 21:47
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Uhm Snout obviously cares about his friends because he likes to cuddle with them naked, and if someone says something mean about then
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Nov 15, 2021 22:49
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Twelve by Pies posted:Idiot protagonists work if they have other strengths, like kindness (actual kindness, not what Legacy is trying to pass off as kindness), heroism, even just pure strength. Goku isn't very smart but he puts his life on the line to defend Earth and he's strong enough to succeed at it. Another point in Goku's favor is that he's an idiot in every situation but one (and it's fighting) (in a show about fighting) dude knows the perfect training-to-relaxation ratio for max gains, dude was the only one to deliberately innovate super saiyan in multiple ways, dude can copy a technique after seeing it once; compare and contrast any number of detective type characters who are socially awful but will loving slam dunk any and every murder mystery they stumble across If Snout was dumb but pretty drat good at whatever the comic was about, it'd at least feel like he's important to the plot, but the comic's not about anything and there is no plot sooo
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Nov 15, 2021 23:41
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Snout's one and only skill is building houses.
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Nov 16, 2021 00:09
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The problem with the comic is that it's bland and directionless, not that Snout isn't more competent. The ur-text for modern heroic fantasy is The Lord of the Rings and Frodo (and the rest of the hobbits) being kinda mediocre and nebbishy and lacking the physical competences of the other characters is intentional, and one of the reasons the narrative works. At the beginning of the original Star Wars trilogy Luke Skywalker isn't just not the most powerful Jedi master or whatever, he's a bumbling oaf who is clearly the least imposing dude in any room he's in. And you can see that Mookie kinda sorta had this in mind way back at the start of Legacy--like when Snout's first rounding up pages and he's matching wits with a tree and succeeds due to tenacity instead of physical prowess. That's cool. I mean the comic was still bad back then, but it at least had a sort of narrative direction that's really, really been increasingly absent as the comic goes on. Like it isn't really clear what Arudak is after here. Like we know he wanted to see the aquatic chandak because of something about saving his dead girlfriend involving whatever Deegan did 200 years ago in the dream realm. But I don't actually understand what any of that means, what it looks like, whether it makes sense in context for Arudak to want this or if this is a sane way to go about it. Like would Arudak be expecting this to be the first step or the game-winning goal? Is this a long shot that he's only pursuing because he has no other leads, or is does it seem like it's likely to pan out? And this is the part of all this that I feel like we understand the most about. What's the Ink Witches' angle here? Like we know that the Ink Witches plural had been investigating what Deegan did 200 years ago. Why? Just general curiosity? An interest in magic in general? Something special involving ink magic in particular? And this doesn't even get into poo poo like the fact that their ride crashed. Does that matter? Maybe they're stranded and that's why they're hanging out here. Or maybe it's just a construct of ink magic and the Ink Witch can magic it back into existence as good as new. I honestly have no idea. That's the thing that really gets me about Legacy. It's not just that it's bad. I don't even have a word for it. It's kinda like the uncanny valley or something. Like when someone who doesn't know how to draw at all tries to draw something it can end up looking like nearly incoherent scrawlings. And while that's bad, it's mere technical incompetence, and mere technical incompetence doesn't really register. Like yeah it's bad, but it's not offensive or anything. It's just that the guy doesn't know how to draw. And with Mookie's art...and writing...and plotting...and everything else...it's not just that it's bad, but it's got just enough...whatever...to elevate it above being mere incompetence and puts it in that uncanny valley region. Where it's not just bad it feels wrong or something.
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Nov 16, 2021 01:12
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SubG posted:The problem with the comic is that it's bland and directionless, not that Snout isn't more competent. The ur-text for modern heroic fantasy is The Lord of the Rings and Frodo (and the rest of the hobbits) being kinda mediocre and nebbishy and lacking the physical competences of the other characters is intentional, and one of the reasons the narrative works. At the beginning of the original Star Wars trilogy Luke Skywalker isn't just not the most powerful Jedi master or whatever, he's a bumbling oaf who is clearly the least imposing dude in any room he's in. True, but they still had special qualities that made them uniquely suited for their narratives. Hobbits were extremely resistant to the lure of the ring, that's why Frodo had to hold the ring, because even Gandalf would've succumbed to its power (this is true of any hobbit, Frodo wasn't any more special than the other hobbits, to be clear, it's just he was the one who volunteered). Luke is a bumbling oaf but he's still Anakin's son and really skilled at using the Force, he's even able to make use of it to a limited extent after receiving the barest of training from Obi Wan, which is something that say, Han wouldn't be able to do. There's still a chance for Snout to turn out to be a super special boy somehow, like being Luna's descendant or something, but we haven't seen any indication of it. We haven't seen any indication of a special quality that makes Snout unique or interesting. SubG posted:And this doesn't even get into poo poo like the fact that their ride crashed. Does that matter? Maybe they're stranded and that's why they're hanging out here. Or maybe it's just a construct of ink magic and the Ink Witch can magic it back into existence as good as new. I honestly have no idea. Yeah we don't know if it crashed because seaweed orc did something, or because Ink Witch doesn't know how to land it, or if it's the effect of some wild magic surge, or what. As long as it isn't the last one, I assume she could just magic up another one right now, unless it's the first one, and seaweed orc doesn't want them to leave for whatever reason and would just destroy it again. Or maybe Ink Witch is just tired and doesn't want to make the trip back yet. At any rate "why are they still here" is something that would be explained in a story that had a plot, or purpose, or a not terrible gimmick. My personal theory is that everyone else in the ship was so disgusted by Snout's actions that Ink Witch just decided she didn't want to subject everyone to that again so quickly.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:01
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Ink witch needs a Long Rest in between casts of the Ink Ship.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:56
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Legend Minus Snout will be delayed, due to power outages in my area. On the positive side, I'm not
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Nov 16, 2021 02:59
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Holy loving poo poo lmao Please god probe me w this
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Nov 16, 2021 03:00
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Nighthand posted:Ink witch needs a Long Rest in between casts of the Ink Ship.  Right into my veins.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:03
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Nighthand posted:Ink witch needs a Long Rest in between casts of the Ink Ship. Absolutely love this poo poo
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Nov 16, 2021 04:10
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