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Borrovan posted:I was arguing about this with someone a while ago - is it? If I murder someone with a knife because I think they're a dick, that's just murder, but if I blow them up it's terrorism? Yes, terrorism as I'd actually define it is indiscriminate violence, including violence targeting civilians, geared towards cultivating a permanent sense of unease and vulnerability (i.e. terror) to the point that the population becomes completely exhausted and as result draining their government of political capital, forcing them to stop doing whatever it is the terrorists are opposed to or at least enter negotiations. This is very different to targeted guerilla actions with obvious targets. The IRA shooting up a British Army checkpoint or trying to blow up Thatcher were not terrorist attacks, by that metric. Conversely, them calling in a bomb threat, even with plenty of warning and even if said threat turned out to be a hoax, would constitute terrorism. Terrorism and violence overlap, but they're not the same thing, and the idea that you can define an attack as 'terrorism' on the basis of the weapon used is kinda absurd. A guy running into a crowd of people with a machete and going hog wild is potentially more of a terrorist than someone blowing up a car, depending on their motive. 'Methodology', despite that dumb BBC article suggesting otherwise, isn't relevant. That is kinda the point though. In practice 'terrorist' means whatever the establishment wants it to mean. This isn't anything new, the powerful have been throwing the term or related ideas about for hundreds of years to maintain their own veneer of legitimacy. I'd even maybe say the concept of 'treason' and the way that was used is a direct antecedent in some ways, or at least was used in a similarly malleable way.
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Nov 16, 2021 13:49
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big scary monsters posted:I'm hesitant to judge a man based on his father's actions, but hearing this stuff about the elder Johnson does rather shed light on some aspects of the PM's attitude to relationships for me. Man hands on misery to man/ Until that guy throws Britain off the continental shelf. ThomasPaine posted:This is very different to targeted guerilla actions with obvious targets. The IRA shooting up a British Army checkpoint or trying to blow up Thatcher were not terrorist attacks, by that metric. This is a fairly niche interpretation
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Nov 16, 2021 13:51
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Also Stanley Johnson is a way bigger piece of poo poo than I'd thought, and I already thought he was at least a three flushes and some hard work with the toilet brush job.
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Nov 16, 2021 13:53
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big scary monsters posted:I'm hesitant to judge a man based on his father's actions, but hearing this stuff about the elder Johnson does rather shed light on some aspects of the PM's attitude to relationships for me. You're hardly judging Boris based on Stanley's behaviour - it just helps explain why Boris ended up like he did.
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Nov 16, 2021 13:54
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big scary monsters posted:Also Stanley Johnson is a way bigger piece of poo poo than I'd thought, and I already thought he was at least a three flushes and some hard work with the toilet brush job. Makes me want to puke when I see him on the telly hanging out with that teen influencer who was being paid to make Tories cool4kids or something. Extremely hosed vibes
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Nov 16, 2021 13:54
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This reminds me of that article about the alt right women (Lauren Southern etc) who were apparently terribly shocked and disappointed when their weirdo alt right boyfriends treated them terribly. 'Tory is a groper' shouldn't even register as news, tbh, but here we are again with the supposedly earnest horrified surprise.Failed Imagineer posted:This is a fairly niche interpretation I don't think so. As far as the IRA were concerned they were fighting a war of independence. They certainly made use of terrorist tactics but attacking the military forces and political leadership of the entity you're actively at war with can't really be defined like that. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 13:57
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1460576089433165829?t=_FG_-1BMCGlBVdJXYmf8VQ&s=19 I posted about this in the Pratchett thread. Peter Serafinowicz as Death, narrators include Indira Varma, Sian Clifford and Andy loving Serkis doing Small Gods. They're not messing about here.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:05
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Failed Imagineer posted:This is a fairly niche interpretation You think "attacking military checkpoints isn't the same as the Manchester bombing" is a niche view?
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Nov 16, 2021 14:18
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crispix posted:the tide has a'turned and they are pretending it is the 1970s It will ALWAYS be 1690 for them, do i laugh or cry when i say that? 
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Nov 16, 2021 14:23
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ThomasPaine posted:I don't think so. As far as the IRA were concerned they were fighting a war of independence. They certainly made use of terrorist tactics but attacking the military forces and political leadership of the entity you're actively at war with can't really be defined like that. I don't even mean you're wrong, just that is not a widely-understood definition of terrorism. And fwiw I largely support the goals and methods of the post-Civil War IRA up through about 1980 Failed Imagineer fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 14:24
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Jedit posted:Nah, it's as simple as the thing about how the best music is the music from when you were 15. No wonder I feel old, I must have been born in 1804. I think for most boomers the last years living with their natal family happened in the 1970s, and most or all of that family has now died. So I think it's yearning for a past more than for a future - they still had a future in the 80s.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:29
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Actually terrorism is when you Tweet "lol get in the bin you gently caress" at a
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Nov 16, 2021 14:34
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https://twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1460300583299170313 Just staring at this headline like Cortez on the peak at Darien
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Nov 16, 2021 14:34
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Nov 16, 2021 14:37
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Failed Imagineer posted:I don't even mean you're wrong, just that is not a widely-understood definition of terrorism. You realise that includes the peak of their indiscriminate targeting of civilian lives, right? I mean you can make arguments about the type of conflict - and enemy - they were fighting being very different, but it's weird to say you support the 60s and 70s tactics which included street violence, sprayings and pub bombings compared to the 80s and 90s tactics which were much more focused on UK government and economic targets.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:44
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Jedit posted:What I have a problem with is them not saying so from the off because nobody who uses a bomb is anything other than a terrorist. But they didn't, and by saying they had to wait to "examine his methodology" when his methodology was literally the first and only thing we knew it's transparently obvious that it was because they didn't want to say it until they were sure that the bomber either failed the paper bag test or was Irish. They had to ascertain if there was a bomb or if the car just was a Tesla. 
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Nov 16, 2021 14:45
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goddamnedtwisto posted:https://twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1460300583299170313 unrelated picture of the Daily Mail editor 
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Nov 16, 2021 14:49
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goddamnedtwisto posted:You realise that includes the peak of their indiscriminate targeting of civilian lives, right? It also includes the period where the IRA were collaborating with the Nazis. Add dril tweets to taste.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:55
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Jedit posted:Sure, and I don't have a problem with them saying this individual was a terrorist because using a bomb is inherently an act of terror. What I have a problem with is them not saying so from the off because nobody who uses a bomb is anything other than a terrorist. But they didn't, and by saying they had to wait to "examine his methodology" when his methodology was literally the first and only thing we knew it's transparently obvious that it was because they didn't want to say it until they were sure that the bomber either failed the paper bag test or was Irish. It just happens to be exceptionally bad here because when they know up front that the guy with a knife had brown skin they have no problem in dubbing him "terrorist" on the instant even though knives are far from exclusive to terrorists. So, here's a weird example. The True Crime case of Jack Gilbert Graham. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Gilbert_Graham Long story short, he put a bomb in his mother's suitcase and blew up the plane she was on, killing 44 other people. Just to murder his mother and collect the life insurance policy. (Bonus points. He took out the Life Insurance Policy on his mother using a Vending machine in the airport, because that's how they rolled in American in 1955.) Since nothing like this had ever happened before, they just charged him with one count of murder (his mother), with the aggravating factors for the court to consider was how 44 other people were killed at the same time.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:56
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The Question IRL posted:So, here's a weird example. Also the Mardi Gra bomber, who planted and posted 30-odd bombs around south and west London in a succession of blackmail attempts against banks and supermarkets. In this particular case I'd say "examining the methodology" was probably a matter of looking at whether the bomb was detonated deliberately or accidentally. A blackmailer is pretty unlikely to rig up a suicide bomb vest, a terrorist is unlikely to have a letter to the hospital saying "Give me a million quid or I'll blow up the hospital, here's a viable bomb to prove I can"
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Nov 16, 2021 15:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Just staring at this headline like Cortez on the peak at Darien Jedit posted:Nah, it's as simple as the thing about how the best music is the music from when you were 15. Videos game were better back then than they were later, but even with them there's a whole lot of cool niche stuff out now. I would have loved Dead Estate back then and there's no point pretending otherwise.
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Nov 16, 2021 15:06
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Jedit posted:When was the last time you read about someone using a bomb to murder one person they don't like? I'm not scared of the thought of someone coming at me with a knife or a gun because I haven't done anything to warrant being killed. But bombs are indiscriminate. I can be killed by a bomb simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, with no personal animus against me or even a knowledge of my existence. And unless it's some frothing nut who just wants to kill random people, then the intent is not to kill me but to make me fearful at all times that I might be killed. That's the literal definition of terrorism. There was this gang blowing cash points up... https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/ruthless-bank-bombers-who-shocked-19869696
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Nov 16, 2021 15:13
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Guavanaut posted:She'll be showing off her freshly-died bob haircut after the trial. I was just talking to someone about how it's weird nobody seems to remember Mercenary: Escape from Targ, which was a 3D open-world sandbox game released in loving 1985, and literally nobody even attempted to rip off the genre for another decade.
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Nov 16, 2021 15:17
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I was just talking to someone about how it's weird nobody seems to remember Mercenary: Escape from Targ, which was a 3D open-world sandbox game released in loving 1985, and literally nobody even attempted to rip off the genre for another decade. Of course I recall it. Written by Paul Woakes of Encounter fame, who sadly died a few years ago. I wouldn't say nobody tried to rip it off for a decade, though; the Freescape games starting with Driller were tilling the same earth within a couple of years, and Mercenary itself owed something of a debt to Elite.
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Nov 16, 2021 15:29
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More like Paul WOKES (I know nothing about him)
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Nov 16, 2021 15:34
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Jedit posted:Nah, it's as simple as the thing about how the best music is the music from when you were 15. In the 70s they were young and could look forward to the future; why don't the ungrateful youth realise that if things were like the 70s again, they could look forward too? The best music happens all the time between I dunno, 1910 & now? Probably before that with all sorts of folk styles that influenced ragtime, blues & country & other stuff that would in turn influence rock & its offshoots. Most of the stuff 15 year old me liked was nu-metal which has aged about as gracefully as an orange left on the counter for a year Sadly not joking when I say that Significant Other by Limp Bizkit was the most important record in the world as far as 1999 was considered. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 15:37
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:More like Paul WOKES Nor does anyone else - he was an intensely private man who didn't talk to anyone in the industry after he stepped away in the early 90s and didn't talk about his personal life at all. Most people only learned that he had died the better part of a year after it happened. Game-wise, he's best known for Mercenary and its sequels and for inventing Novaload, the first high speed tape loading system on the C64. Prior to the release of Encounter in late 1983 games could take as long as 10 or 15 minutes to load from tape; Novaload cut that down to three or four minutes. It was a huge paradigm shift - not only could you play more games in shorter sessions, it opened the way for games compilations as publishers could use shorter tapes which had lower failure rates.
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Nov 16, 2021 15:47
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crispix posted:the tide has a'turned and they are pretending it is the 1970s My bins are hosed because the council set up a quango to replace the serco contract and no longer pay overtime while refusing to TUPE over prior benefits. About half the collections were late, about half of those were ultimately missed. Many such cases. I blame the wokes
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Nov 16, 2021 15:48
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I have immeasurably better musical taste now than I did when I was fifteen. The 90s-00s had some A+++ electronic music of various sorts but what I was actually listening to while all that good poo poo was happening was generally really bad
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Nov 16, 2021 15:49
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josh04 posted:The UK gov is putting a lot of faith in plans that end with "and then they'll look bad!" More like "keep stringing them along until we can pass this along to the next suckers in office!"
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Nov 16, 2021 16:00
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Jedit posted:Nor does anyone else - he was an intensely private man who didn't talk to anyone in the industry after he stepped away in the early 90s and didn't talk about his personal life at all. Most people only learned that he had died the better part of a year after it happened. Encounter was a game unfairly overshadowed by Mercenary: think Battlezone, except with the twitch-reflex speed of Robotron and huge objects flying ridiculously fast around the screen. Something of a forgotten gem. Ugh, I just realised I'm going to be using the phrase "[PERSON FROM MY YOUTH] died?" with increasing frequency over time.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:00
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forkboy84 posted:Most of the stuff 15 year old me liked was nu-metal which has aged about as gracefully as an orange left on the counter for a year  real metal, but in hindsight most of it is pretty fun, I quite enjoy it now  Sure would have been nice if there were fewer f-slurs in it tho
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Nov 16, 2021 16:28
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https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1460631938327355398?t=bk4urbVOcnv30_PhVhYwBA&s=19
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Nov 16, 2021 16:39
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c0burn posted:https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1460631938327355398?t=bk4urbVOcnv30_PhVhYwBA&s=19 Perfectly timed to make Starmer's speech he's just made at least 90% redundant
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Nov 16, 2021 16:48
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Borrovan posted:I hated nu metal at the time because it wasn't Entirely the opposite here. If I never hear LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR again I'll still have heard it too often. I still have nights where I'll go down a nu-metal rabbit hole on YouTube but that's exclusively to listen to the absolute worst and dumbest poo poo like Coal Chamber - Loco & Machine Head - From This Day which will only stop making me laugh when I'm dead. If you've never seen the video it is such an exquisite summary of the time, terrible CGI, incredible hair choices, dumb simple music and a white bloke rapping who really shouldn't be: https://youtu.be/HJzeJiHHQOY
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Nov 16, 2021 16:49
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Borrovan posted:I hated nu metal at the time because it wasn't Nu-metal was my  moment, having been a huge fan of the rap/rock crossovers of the 80s and early 90s. I remember seeing one of them (maybe Limp Bizkit?) on The Box[1] in about 96 and one of my mates going "This is just Vanilla Ice with a loving distortion pedal", and as time goes on I think he was being extremely generous.[1] Another thing that instantly dates me, a cable channel with a premium-rate number you could ring to play music videos. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 16:50
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sebzilla posted:Perfectly timed to make Starmer's speech he's just made at least 90% redundant I assume it'll be the excuse for not voting for Labours motion
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Nov 16, 2021 16:51
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forkboy84 posted:Entirely the opposite here. If I never hear LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR again I'll still have heard it too often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcAyEMM4Cc
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Nov 16, 2021 16:56
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c0burn posted:I assume it'll be the excuse for not voting for Labours motion I read that as Starmers excuse. Which I could definitely see him doing.
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