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That answers the question about the leader of the firelights. Also this show is fantastic.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:48
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Ah dang well my weak theory is out the window
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Nov 17, 2021 21:06
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saturday midnight pacific might just be the absolute worse launch time for anything that i have ever seen in the history of launching things
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Nov 17, 2021 22:21
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Mnoba posted:saturday midnight pacific might just be the absolute worse launch time for anything that i have ever seen in the history of launching things I’m not sure if you know the target demographic for this show. Edit: Riot also just released two new paid games. A Rhythm game and an RPG. I was watching a stream of the RPG and it looks pretty interesting.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:30
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Riot's started doing this thing where they take indie developers and say "Hey, make a game using our IP, here's a bunch of money and the voice actors for whichever characters you're using"
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Nov 17, 2021 22:34
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SirSamVimes posted:Riot's started doing this thing where they take indie developers and say "Hey, make a game using our IP, here's a bunch of money and the voice actors for whichever characters you're using" They should just keep doing that frankly. Make more games that aren't a Moba using these characters I think are cool
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Nov 17, 2021 22:37
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I imagine if these first games are successful they will indeed continue to do that.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:39
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SirSamVimes posted:I imagine if these first games are successful they will indeed continue to do that. They are also priced reasonably IMO. $29.99 for the rpg and $9.99 for the other one.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:42
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Riot themselves are also making a fighting game and an MMO if either of those interest you. They're clearly angling for league of legends to become a huge multimedia IP and hell, sign me up
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Nov 17, 2021 22:46
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They're also making an isometric action RPG like Diablo which could be great
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Nov 17, 2021 23:10
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chaleski posted:They're also making an isometric action RPG like Diablo which could be great I’m in for that. Also probably in for the MMO because I play all of them it seems like.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:17
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SirSamVimes posted:Riot's started doing this thing where they take indie developers and say "Hey, make a game using our IP, here's a bunch of money and the voice actors for whichever characters you're using" Actually just a small correction here: They made a publishing front called Riot Forge and essentially said "If you have an idea for a game in our universe utilizing our characters let's talk" and then let the studios approached them. They answered this somewhere in an AMA or on a FAQ and I could be wrong but I think it's real neat. I actually had a chance to go through this thread a little bit more and I don't really want to call anyone out and I don't want to point fingers but there is some terminally online discussions going on in a way that I've only seen in progressive Twitter spheres. Where it's essentially communication in which way no actual human would have a normal conversation about and like I said before that's not an attack and is not meant to offend but sometimes when you are that much online you begin to fixate and hyper-focus on details. In short you essentially become a hammer and everything you see in context turns to nails. For example: During episode 1 when it's playing the playground song and you see not-badger from Breaking Bad make eye contact with the old yordle it wasn't a "ew trans" panic type of joke. The scene hangs just enough for the yordle to make a look prior to the transisition of the scene and the response to the 13-year old boy's face as the joke. Just a quick funny bit when a child is put into a situation that is mostly for adults. In Act 2 we see that same yordle but get a shifted context to a more adult-oriented and realize that she's pretty much the matron and runs the place and others look to her for advice and protection. This was done overly well and isn't a problem They then repeat the same joke to the viewer but not with the old yorlde, but with the bondage yordle. it's playing on itself and it's perfectly healthy and fine. There is a discussion here about Silco, Jinx, and Viktor and getting into disfigurement, mental illness, and overall disabilities. All of them, and I mean absolutely all of them are well-written characters that have motivations, expectations, and executions within the story that make sense from the world that the show is giving us. It would be one thing if the show was beating you over the head and saying that all three of them were the villains because of their disabilities but it does not do that. In fact quite the opposite! It legitimately showcases numerous times that they hold power and respect within this world in spite of whatever has happened to them and that whatever has happened to them doesn't shape their entire path forward as a character. But again, if you see everything as a nail, you can pretty much hyper-fixate onto a talk track. Arcane is written by two individuals who have never written a script before and it shows. There are so many scenes that play off each other and every bit of detail in the background or what happens on screen has a purpose. Somebody earlier in the thread pointed out that a regular TV show would have made Vi miss the flare but Arcane gave not only the characters the moment but the viewers as well. And when they had that moment? There wasn't some forced fake outrage, it was straight up [i["Sorry here's why I was away I'm so sorry"[/i] and they communicated. It was so loving refreshing to see play out.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:14
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Asema posted:Actually just a small correction here: I agree with all of this.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:20
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I also agree with all that and appreciate the correction on how Riot Forge works. Slight correction though, the supposed "trans panic" was not about the yordle, it was about the drag queen next to her. But in the same vein, "a drag queen prostitute exists" is hardly trans panic. edit This being their first script reminds me of (if I remember the anecdote correctly) George Miller getting his wife to do cinematography for Fury Road and when she told him she didn't know how to so cinematography for action films, he said that was exactly the point. Sometimes when someone doesn't know the established way to do something, they instead come up with something fresh and new. SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 00:28
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An individual character can be well written and still fall into negative stereotypes about certain kinds of disability. A show doesn't need to go out of their way to 'beat you over the head' with someone's disability for it to be kind of lovely that there is yet another main villain that's disfigured, especially considering the incident that caused him to lose the eye is also the same incident that 'freed him' and made him become a villain instead of just a violent revolutionary. If you disagree that's fine but I'm not sure if calling people 'terminally online' or the like is a great response?
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Nov 18, 2021 00:53
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Asema posted:I actually had a chance to go through this thread a little bit more and I don't really want to call anyone out and I don't want to point fingers but there is some terminally online discussions going on in a way that I've only seen in progressive Twitter spheres. Where it's essentially communication in which way no actual human would have a normal conversation about and like I said before that's not an attack and is not meant to offend but sometimes when you are that much online you begin to fixate and hyper-focus on details. In short you essentially become a hammer and everything you see in context turns to nails. This happens with everything these days. I'm Eastern European and thus watching it all from the sidelines (for now, at least), so I find it amusing in a "watch it all burn" sort of way.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:02
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Hellioning posted:An individual character can be well written and still fall into negative stereotypes about certain kinds of disability. A show doesn't need to go out of their way to 'beat you over the head' with someone's disability for it to be kind of lovely that there is yet another main villain that's disfigured, especially considering the incident that caused him to lose the eye is also the same incident that 'freed him' and made him become a villain instead of just a violent revolutionary. Silco went on an entire rant to Vander about what 'freed' him and not once did he look at the camera and monologue about how it was how society saw him because of his disability. The context behind what motivates him as a character is the class struggle and the betrayal of their failed revolution that has pinned them down. Yes, he mentions how he got the eye and the wound + sewer water caused him issues, but the "freed" statement had nothing to do with it. Context matters. Maybe I should have worded it differently than terminally online, but there is an ongoing ordeal on the internet that has consistently seen people trying to apologize to a wide-scope of things before actually getting to their commentary and my comment was that isn't normal conversation and that those small details if you hyper-fixate on them pulls you away from what actually matters. And in my experience that usually comes at somebody who is online too much and hasn't actually interacted with people outside of their Twitter-sphere or Discord community. I see it a lot when I'm canvassing with the dsa in comparison to the city vs rural areas we walk through. Again I'm not saying don't advocate or push for proper representation but there are very obvious negative stereotypes that some shows utilize and Arcane does a very good job of working around those to make sure it doesn't fall into the pit traps. Not everything you see is a nail. Also embarrassingly enough it took for this show for me to realize that the League of Legends in-game model for Viktor has a brace on his knee. and I call myself a viktor main... Megazver posted:This happens with everything these days. I'm Eastern European and thus watching it all from the sidelines (for now, at least), so I find it amusing in a "watch it all burn" sort of way. Yeah this is kind of the point I wanted to make that with the political climate of the last few years that when you get super focused into that world that you forget to step back a bit and turn off. I'm guilty of needing to log off too. Asema fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 01:11
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Yes, context matters, which is why I said that the same incident that 'freed' him in regards to the class struggle and their failed revolution and betrayal and all that is also the same incident that lost him the eye and caused the scarring, and not that he is motivated by the lost of the eye or the scar or anything. Like obviously it's a good thing he didn't monologue to the camera about how bad it is that society treats him less for his disability and all that but it's not like that's the only possible way to do bad disability representation.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:21
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Good posts Asema. On another note, here's some other short league of legends animations that came out a few months ago, they are pretty well made. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ED2dnPJXYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbJhZW-iN0s Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 01:21
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Speaking of old LoL animations, how about a kick-rear end metal song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-mT9D4fdgQ
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Nov 18, 2021 04:27
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Never played League and am generally uninterested in video game lore but I do like fantasy adaptions. Arcane excels in a way few fantasy adaptions do because it’s been made for this format. They’re relying on so much visual language to flesh out the world whereas shows that take their influence from novels generally have to fit in a lot more expository dialogue. Also very glad that this show is taking the vague approach to magic as opposed to trying to do a Sanderson-esque system, which would make it feel even more like a video game.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:23
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Asema posted:I actually had a chance to go through this thread a little bit more and I don't really want to call anyone out and I don't want to point fingers but there is some terminally online discussions going on in a way that I've only seen in progressive Twitter spheres. Where it's essentially communication in which way no actual human would have a normal conversation about and like I said before that's not an attack and is not meant to offend but sometimes when you are that much online you begin to fixate and hyper-focus on details. In short you essentially become a hammer and everything you see in context turns to nails. I disagree with alot of the points you've made, but I respect that your disagreement isn't a personal attack on me. I hope everyone understand that my disagreements aren't personal attacks. They are critique's of Arcane, a giant product produced by a corporation notorious for its culture of sexism. This show deserves a critical eye. A 13 year old child turns and looks at an elderly sex worker. She smiles, shifts her body posture, raises an eyebrow, and makes a "mmmr" sound. He turns away, making a yikes face. <- This is really bad! Jinx, and the literally dehumanised war drug addicts from ep 6, are absolutely ableism. That should fairly call into focus the rest of the show's representation - its not a hyper-fixation to see glaring problems and examine things further. Silco character design is still the standard bond villain ableism. Viktor has been decent so far (he's one of the few characters I'd consider well written), but has yet to commit the world's most obvious heel turn. This ableism doesn't have to be intentional to be bad. --- To move from response to talk about new things. On the note of intent, the lgbt+ representation has intentionally been siloed into one cuttable location so it can be censored for international markets. The only explicit queerness has occurred in the brothel (and sex work will likely be censored internationally anyway), and all the other queer characters (e.g. Viktor) are queer coded. The animation quality is extremely variable. The fight scenes often look good, and the sweeping vista's are gorgeous, but the character models movement often suck outside of fights. Ep 4-6 elon musk in particular has alot of stiff and wierd looking movement - that scene where he was on stage and he was raising his arms for the crowd looked TERRIBLE.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:02
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"queer characters (e.g. Viktor)" What? edit: I'm not saying he can't be read as queer, he reads as asexual to me which qualifies. But lol at listing him as an example of queer chatacters. SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 07:12
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So Viktor reads as ace, but he isn't queer? Are you saying that because he's only coded and not explicitly ace he doesn't count as a queer character? I'm confused.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:39
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Rob Filter posted:
I could go back and re watch it but are we sure he wasn’t reacting to the dude that just got thrown out?
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Nov 18, 2021 07:40
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Also isn't he like, the same age as Vi, which would put him 15-16 in Act 1 not 13 (note this doesn't make the scene better, just trying to remember the details of the character in question).
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Nov 18, 2021 07:42
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MarcusSA posted:I could go back and re watch it but are we sure he wasn’t reacting to the dude that just got thrown out? Start at 20:37 ep 1.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:43
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Rob Filter posted:The animation quality is extremely variable. The fight scenes often look good, and the sweeping vista's are gorgeous, but the character models movement often suck outside of fights. Ep 4-6 elon musk in particular has alot of stiff and wierd looking movement - that scene where he was on stage and he was raising his arms for the crowd looked TERRIBLE. See now THIS is an insane take to me. Every second of animation on this show is incredible
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Nov 18, 2021 08:15
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Just noticed on a rewatch that in episode 4 the bald councilor is still fiddling with the child puzzle Mel gave him what must have been years before. Rewatching was in general a joy to see all the little details they put in the world and the characters.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:52
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I'd argue that the context of something like Silco's disability doesn't even matter. You can write the backstory however you want, the fact is that he's an evil character who has a hosed up eye that's clearly meant to illustrate that he's corrupted somehow. You would rarely, if ever see a *good* character with the same sort of visual. I don't really think it's a big deal or hold it against the show, but the trope is easily recognizable. You can't just go "oh well he lost the eye because of the War of Agarest and it doesn't fit into his motivations!!" when it's being used as a visual shorthand for "look how clearly loving evil this guy is".
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Nov 18, 2021 09:14
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Rob Filter posted:So Viktor reads as ace, but he isn't queer? Are you saying that because he's only coded and not explicitly ace he doesn't count as a queer character? I'm confused. No, I'm saying that just because he can be read as queer does not mean he is written or coded as a queer character.
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Nov 18, 2021 09:28
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Well, SirSamVimes, lets talk about queer coding! Queer coding is when subtext indicates a character is queer, but the text itself doesn't explicitly support it. Examples of queer coding could be: 1. Character showing no interest in heterosexual relationships 2. Character having strong crush (unstated whether platonic or romantic) in another same sex character 3. Character who has traits more commonly associated with people of opposite gender. (e.g. tomboys, thin unmuscled men) Slightly related, but a strong indicator that queer coding should be payed attention to is censorship. The more direct government censorship (e.g. China censoring lgbt+ content) or corporate censorship (e,g. Disney censoring lgbt+ content) restricts artists ability to talk about queerness openly, the more likely it is that writers will move explicit queer characters to be queer coded characters. All that said, do you still seriously think that Viktor isn't at all queer coded, and that its laughable that I'd think so? Rob Filter fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 10:06
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I know what queer coding is. I disagree that things like "not being buff" and "not shown to have any interest in relationships" or "having a close friendship with another character of the same gender" are queer coding.
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Nov 18, 2021 10:10
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By themselves, in isolation? Sure. Taken all together, combined with a scene where he literally ignores a woman awkwardly asking him on a date? You really think saying Viktor is queer coded is laughably baseless?
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Nov 18, 2021 10:19
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your every post is laughably baseless, heh
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Nov 18, 2021 11:28
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That scene read more as "scientist who only loves his work" than queer to me, but I can understand why someone would think differently. I also am not a fan of how disfigurement and mental illness is used to 'mark' the people who we're meant to see as bad. Yes, the show has not said that they're evil because they're disfigured or mentally ill/unstable, but it's far too common to see it used as a shorthand for "bad" people for me to really be comfortable with it.
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Nov 18, 2021 12:50
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Rob Filter posted:By themselves, in isolation? Sure. Taken all together, combined with a scene where he literally ignores a woman awkwardly asking him on a date? I do. He's dying and knows it and is pushing himself to try to solve the technology problem. If a guy rejects the advances of a women that makes him gay?
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Nov 18, 2021 12:54
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. Edit: too tired to have this conversation in a useful way
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Nov 18, 2021 13:05
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Megillah Gorilla posted:That scene read more as "scientist who only loves his work" than queer to me, but I can understand why someone would think differently. Yeah like.. I fully admit that I'm not the most steeped in LGBT+ culture or anything as a straight dude, but to me at least Viktor just reads as a dude obsessed with, you know, developing the technology to save his own life from his terminal illness, or at least is racing to improve his world with the ideas he believes in before he himself dies. I never really got the impression that Jayce and Viktor was more than a bromance or two really close friends. I guess you could look at the "this isn't my bedroom" comment or something, but it's not like Riot is being even remotely subtle on the Cait/Vi pairing so it seems unlikely that Viktor was intended to be a super secret gay guy to avoid chinese censorship or something like that. It felt pretty clear though that when Jayce got with Mel it was sort of "cheating" on Viktor and the principals they held before. But again I think a lot of that was intended as betraying a close friend in his hour of deepest need, rather than anything romantic or something like that. But I'm also notably an idiot so who knows 
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Nov 18, 2021 13:47
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Megillah Gorilla posted:That scene read more as "scientist who only loves his work" That's also basically his entire character backstory.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:56
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