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Ulf posted:STOP DOING JIHAD 
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Nov 18, 2021 00:50
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yeah, the ring is how the charter for Arrakis was signed at the ceremony.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:51
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The ducal signet can be thought of as a coat of arms. Nowadays I think most people think a coat of arms is merely decorative, but in their heyday they were a type of authenticated signature. DocuSign for the middle ages, as it were. Does any other book series come close to having the quality of world building as Dune? My friend promised to read Dune if I'd read The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss and I feel like I got the microscopic end of a guild heighliner-long stick.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:55
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:How it manages to compact sand, on the other hand, is a very good question - because silica compacts really poorly. So I'd always imagined it was that.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:58
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Mister Speaker posted:- The Harkonnen vehicles shown in the intro are their harvesters; in contrast to the one the Atreides are shown using later, the Harkonnen harvesters look like enormous swollen ticks. Similar vibes to their huge bloated gunship and their chunkier thopters.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:46
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Think Piter computed the possibility that Paul lived but obviously wasn’t like big up front with that data
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Nov 18, 2021 01:48
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The sand compactor mechanism isn't that important, but it does give a nice explanation for how the Fremen are able to bury themselves at will. And it ties in to the "liquid sand" thing the worms have going on. I thought it was a really nice touch,
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Nov 18, 2021 01:48
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Jewmanji posted:The ducal signet can be thought of as a coat of arms. Nowadays I think most people think a coat of arms is merely decorative, but in their heyday they were a type of authenticated signature. DocuSign for the middle ages, as it were. People poo poo on ASOIAF but it is good in that sense Also lord of the rings of course
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Nov 18, 2021 01:49
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I always interpreted the ducal ring to be ancient archeo tech that mysteriously interacted with technological documents to certify signatures It was probably just a simple ring pressed into wax
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Nov 18, 2021 01:51
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skasion posted:Herbert doesn’t lean on this too hard but a signet ring is absolutely a legal artifact. It’s what authenticates a document as being from the Atreides Duke. In a moral sense. It's a ring, you can duplicate it with a piece of wax and a knife. It's not some 1024-bit PGP key, it's a piece of carved metal. It's a symbol of ducal authority, it's not an authenticator.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:58
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Not to get too deep but humans are inherently respectful of official symbols. It’s not that a simple signet ring is easy to duplicate. It is. It’s that it is hard for humans to do it because we believe in the power of symbols
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Nov 18, 2021 02:00
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euphronius posted:Not to get too deep but humans are inherently respectful of official symbols. It’s not that a simple signet ring is easy to duplicate. It is. It’s that it is hard for humans to do it because we believe in the power of symbols I would download a car.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:03
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Prolonged Panorama posted:The sand compactor mechanism isn't that important, but it does give a nice explanation for how the Fremen are able to bury themselves at will. And it ties in to the "liquid sand" thing the worms have going on. I thought it was a really nice touch, there's a whole scene where he has to macgyver his way into a sanddune to rescue their pack.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:13
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Bin Gyver. Please
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Nov 18, 2021 02:14
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Jewmanji posted:Does any other book series come close to having the quality of world building as Dune? My friend promised to read Dune if I'd read The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss and I feel like I got the microscopic end of a guild heighliner-long stick. I made a drunken agreement that if my friend read Dune I'd read Red Rising. He's done and seen the movie twice and I haven't started.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:17
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euphronius posted:Bin Gyver. Please Lisan-Mac-Gyver
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Nov 18, 2021 02:18
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Ulf posted:STOP DOING JIHAD Something Usul Forums > General Wormshit > Sandwarrior rides, fremen tractors, interstellar screeds: ARRAKIS BUTTHOLE NATION
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Nov 18, 2021 02:18
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Tongue of the guyvers??
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Nov 18, 2021 02:20
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skasion posted:Very carefully I genuinely love responding with that answer for various things, but I completely failed to see how it was the obvious answer to my own post. 
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Nov 18, 2021 02:21
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Phanatic posted:In a moral sense. It's a ring, you can duplicate it with a piece of wax and a knife. It's not some 1024-bit PGP key, it's a piece of carved metal. It's a symbol of ducal authority, it's not an authenticator. It wouldn't serve as incontrovertible proof of identity all by itself, but in a society as insular and stratified as Dune I could see it carrying a lot of weight. It's not like some rando can go online to download the design, or even have access to official documents that are sealed with it, so anyone with the access and ability to fake it... probably wouldn't, because that's Just Not Done by civilized people. At the very least it wouldn't be something that could be easily dismissed.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:23
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kiimo posted:I made a drunken agreement that if my friend read Dune I'd read Red Rising. He's done and seen the movie twice and I haven't started. Thought you meant the Tom Clancy book and I was like.... weird but ok. edit: I read the character names on Wikipedia. You have my condolences.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:23
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A mentat or BG witch could tell if a seal was fake
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Nov 18, 2021 02:26
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Phanatic posted:In a moral sense. It's a ring, you can duplicate it with a piece of wax and a knife. It's not some 1024-bit PGP key, it's a piece of carved metal. It's a symbol of ducal authority, it's not an authenticator. Impossible. Imperial Signet Ring Conditioning is well known to be unbreakable.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:27
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mossyfisk posted:Impossible. Imperial Signet Ring Conditioning is well known to be unbreakable. Nah, it suks
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Nov 18, 2021 02:29
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There's precedent for things like the ducal ring today - see chinese company chops ( the ARM CEO in TYOOL 2020 was fired, refused to turn over the chop, and has been legally running the company since then). Regardless if its silly or not, there's a huge precedent in human culture to assign a lot of power to a physical item. Without the ring, there is a very good chance that the Landsraad would've told Paul to gently caress off because they can't prove he is who he says he is. Jewmanji posted:Thought you meant the Tom Clancy book and I was like.... weird but ok. Anything with color-based societies makes me think of Apprentice Adept  edit: read the wiki synapsis... there's a harry potter house element for elites ruling a slave mining society on Mars? I'm circling back around to trashy-intrigued Vampire Panties fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 02:38
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The guild out of anyone knows who Paul is , relic jewelry notwithstanding
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Nov 18, 2021 02:41
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It fits with Dune's subversive look at heroes to set up the ring as something of a Macguffin, only to have it not matter in the slightest by the end of the book.euphronius posted:I always interpreted the ducal ring to be ancient archeo tech that mysteriously interacted with technological documents to certify signatures The first sentence was written by Brian and the second by Frank.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:40
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stratdax posted:Are the twins boning in the book? leto II is never horny (they were not boning tho. leto became a worm and never scored)
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Nov 18, 2021 03:46
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bene tleilaxu: goddamnit he's gotta be horny about something!!!!
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Nov 18, 2021 05:10
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Vampire Panties posted:
Random dude shows up out of the desert *with* the ring, says “I’m Leto’s heir!”, he still can’t prove he is who he says he is. Possession of the ring can’t do that. What can do that is a horde of warriors who will shut down spice production and destroy the Guild and the Imperium. If he has that, his having the ring doesn’t matter. Being *Paul* doesn’t matter, everyone who depends on the spice is going to say “yep, that’s Paul, the only and rightful heir of Duke Leto!” and salute. Conversely, if he doesn’t have that army but does have the ring, he gets murdered as soon as he pokes his head out and dumped in a ditch.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:32
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Phanatic posted:Random dude shows up out of the desert *with* the ring, says “I’m Leto’s heir!”, he still can’t prove he is who he says he is. Possession of the ring can’t do that. iirc the dune encyclopedia has a long digression by a revisionist scholar who argues that "paul" was just a fremen leader who assumed the identity of an assassinated noble
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Nov 18, 2021 05:43
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Phanatic posted:Random dude shows up out of the desert *with* the ring, says “I’m Leto’s heir!”, he still can’t prove he is who he says he is. Possession of the ring can’t do that. StashAugustine posted:iirc the dune encyclopedia has a long digression by a revisionist scholar who argues that "paul" was just a fremen leader who assumed the identity of an assassinated noble IMO the ring is important because it brings a veneer of legitimacy to the Landsraad accepting a new Emperor. They had all gathered there to put down a religious rebellion - if the Fremen won, who knows what would have happened to the ruling elite. Much like history, the nobles will fight to the very bitter end before they let a wormherder tell them what to do. Once Paul shows up with the right costume for the party, they know he's one of their own and he wont' do anything radical like execute their families and socialize their wealth. Could the spacing guild have told the Landsraad to STFU and accept whomever, because they didnt want the spice to be destroyed? possibly, but I think thats the difference between a jihad and a universal civil war. also - Jessica is the Baron Harkonnens daughter per the failson books If the BG plan went through correctly, would this mean the new KH would only have one set of grandparents?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:12
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Vampire Panties posted:also - Jessica is the Baron Harkonnens daughter per the failson books If the BG plan went through correctly, would this mean the new KH would only have one set of grandparents? That's not just a failson book thing, at least. Maybe the shortening of the way refers to greatly simplified family trees, after the Hapsburg model.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:19
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Jessica being the baron's daughter is in dune 1, aka dunes of dune. The mother being mohiam is encyclopedia/failson efb
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Nov 18, 2021 06:20
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stratdax posted:I watched the Children of Dune miniseries. it was quite good, production-wise. At least all the way to the last half hour where they realized they were out of time and rushed to get through the remainder of the book. The audience doesn't learn what Leto II's plan is, what he's doing or what the Golden Path is, so that's a problem. Maybe that's not a problem of the adaptations but of the novels, because from what I read in Dune and Dune Messiah, Herbert is never really clear about the bigger picture stuff or what people are actually working towards. The big picture stuff is usually revealed when people are thinking to themselves and often when they're tripping their balls off, so it doesn't get adapted or might be easier for readers to ignore. The Golden Path directly calls back to the weird Jungian stuff made explicit in the early parts of Dune, where Paul senses that the jihad is inevitable because the Guild's monopoly on travel is threatening humanity with genetic stagnation (and so the collective unconsciousness is getting unreasonably horny or something, I remember the word estrus somewhere in that passage).
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Nov 18, 2021 06:20
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Novel sexual archetypes (Fastest Leto)
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Nov 18, 2021 06:24
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Idaho: in a petersonian sense... Moneo: What the gently caress are you talking about Duncan?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:26
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Riot Bimbo posted:Idaho: in a petersonian sense...
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Nov 18, 2021 07:58
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Tree Bucket posted:That's not just a failson book thing, at least.
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Nov 18, 2021 10:35
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My dream is a God Emperor HBO max or Netflix series. God Emperor wouldn't transfer to a movie well but would suit a series. Are the Gholas just exact clones or sort of human hybrids? I remember in the books the first Ghola Ducan was different...
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Nov 18, 2021 10:48
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