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Eric the Mauve posted:e2: Demoting managers that you want to see leave is a really weird move, damaging their resumes is not a good way to get them gone ASAP. Much more standard if you're really bent on avoiding paying severance to your recently acquired company's surplus managers is to leave them in the same nominal role but take away their reports and stop giving them anything to do (notwithstanding it's cheaper and easier in the long run to just pay severance and fire them). Demoting them is bizarrely and self defeatingly aggressive.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:52
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Nov 17, 2021 22:06
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I'm not sure if I should point out how easy it is to buy a PhD in some countries...
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Nov 17, 2021 22:18
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Dik Hz posted:This is the same guy, allegedly has a PhD in chemistry, that told me to look into mixing ammonia and bleach in 275-gallon poly totes. And when I obviously pushed back he made me call our bleach vendor on the spot to discuss his idea. So yeah, aggressive and stupid is his style and I don't take it personally. How about instead of quitting you get him sent to prison somehow
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Nov 17, 2021 22:40
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah I don't know exactly how much your current job sucks but if they are really going to hold the line with that kind of aggressively gently caress-you-you-need-us-more-than-we-need-you posture I would give it a hard pass if at all humanly possible. Office Spacing your way to a severance at your current job is a viable option if it comes to that. Just lol if you think a demoted title would ever actually make it onto my resume or linkedin if it happened to me
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Nov 18, 2021 02:15
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leper khan posted:I'm not sure if I should point out how easy it is to buy a PhD in some countries...
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Nov 18, 2021 02:40
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Holy poo poo, current boss has come back and I've just been verbally informed I'm getting my pay raise! A 55% increase to 70k AUD. gently caress me I might start crying, Pandemic has been super rough. Cheers thread! I may have only commented recently, but I've been reading for a few months now! Dik Hz posted:This is the same guy, allegedly has a PhD in chemistry, that told me to look into mixing ammonia and bleach in 275-gallon poly totes. And when I obviously pushed back he made me call our bleach vendor on the spot to discuss his idea. So yeah, aggressive and stupid is his style and I don't take it personally. I've dealt with similar things relating to the construction and manufacturing "If you're asking me to do this, I've deemed it unsafe and I will only proceed if you send me an email confirming what you want me to do." Is a polite way to shut that poo poo down immediately. Then if they actually loving do send you an email, go directly to whatever person is going to tell at them the loudest. I've had an email all of once, which was a project manager for another company insisting one of our subcontractors core drill next to a giant propane tank - we walked off site immediately, charged them an arm and a leg to muster back to site a week later, and the project manager was 'reasaigned' never to be heard from again.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:28
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Infinitum posted:Holy poo poo, current boss has come back and I've just been verbally informed I'm getting my pay raise! Congratulations! That's going to make a huge difference.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:26
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Anyone have tips on withdrawing acceptance of a job offer? I had been holding off til I got a solid offer from another company but now I have it and want to sever with a previously accepted one. This one the deal got changed a bit from the verbal agreement I had which wasn't apparently legal (ie I could work remotely in Canada before coming down to the US - nope gotta actually be in the states to do it) and then a really good local opportunity came up. Anyway I was just thinking of going with "regretfully I will be withdrawing my acceptance, the miscommunication over the remote work was a big factor, best wishes, bla bla bla" I won't get into any details or anything like that. I'm sure they'll probably want to call and sweat me or something but whatever. Or perhaps not maybe they realize they boofed it up too. Who knows.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:19
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"Hey given that <list of changes> is different from <what you agreed> I regretfully must retract my acceptance of this offer." If you want to be extra nice phrase it as you doing them a favour by avoiding the complications of all that illegality which you totally can't budge on for reasons.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:40
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Wouldn't it be like a resignation letter or asking for higher salary? Why tell them any reason?
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Nov 18, 2021 13:34
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Just say you found a local opportunity and leave it at that.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:50
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Jordan7hm posted:Just say you found a local opportunity and leave it at that.
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Nov 18, 2021 14:06
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unbutthurtable posted:Just lol if you think a demoted title would ever actually make it onto my resume or linkedin if it happened to me
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Nov 18, 2021 14:21
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Dik Hz posted:told me to look into mixing ammonia and bleach in 275-gallon poly totes. What in the gently caress. Is he trying to demote you to dead as well?
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Nov 18, 2021 14:34
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priznat posted:Anyone have tips on withdrawing acceptance of a job offer? I had been holding off til I got a solid offer from another company but now I have it and want to sever with a previously accepted one. This one the deal got changed a bit from the verbal agreement I had which wasn't apparently legal (ie I could work remotely in Canada before coming down to the US - nope gotta actually be in the states to do it) and then a really good local opportunity came up. For personal reasons, I'm no longer able to accept this position. Regards, -priznat
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Nov 18, 2021 14:40
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Jordan7hm posted:Just say you found a local opportunity and leave it at that. Yeah, your situation was messed up. I don't think you need to cast blame, but saying "Local opportunity, available now" would explain everything to everyone. leper khan posted:For personal reasons, I'm no longer able to accept this position. While you don't need to do anything, if you're rejecting an accepted offer I would say some kind of context is professional. You are torching a bridge when you say "just kidding" and a bit of salvage can go a long way in a world that can be quite small. Again, in this case I don't think it needs much but being clear that "Locally available and available now" after the manager stupidly thought you could just hire someone anywhere with no hurdles is appropriate.
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Nov 18, 2021 15:09
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Lockback posted:While you don't need to do anything, if you're rejecting an accepted offer I would say some kind of context is professional. You are torching a bridge when you say "just kidding" and a bit of salvage can go a long way in a world that can be quite small. 
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Nov 18, 2021 15:54
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Thanks all! Good advice. I will explain, briefly, that it was really the change from being able to start remotely that affected my decision. That was a big part of my accepting it as it would be a major move for me and being able to ease into it like that was really compelling. I would not have taken it without that to be honest. I don’t have any ill will towards them about it, things just got mixed up and I’m to blame too for not doing more due diligence. Heck even if it wasn’t for that I would have a tough time not moving to the other position I got, it is local/wfh, good pay, a new division so almost like a startup (a plus for me) and I am working with several people I know and like including my manager. All that with no relocation or cross border issues! It’s a no brainer it is just too bad the timing wasn’t better 
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Nov 18, 2021 19:07
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Discovering that you need to move to a new country is a slam dunk of an excuse, just apologize and say that you can't make that work.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:59
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Yeah I summarized the points here in an email to them and they were very cordial about it everyone was cool so it went ok. I had been dreading doing it but overall not a huge deal. Sorry it turned out that way, wished them the best and vice versa.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:07
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priznat posted:Yeah I summarized the points here in an email to them and they were very cordial about it everyone was cool so it went ok. I had been dreading doing it but overall not a huge deal. Sorry it turned out that way, wished them the best and vice versa. That's about as best as can go, good for you. The one time I had to do it it was similar, it was like "oh yeah, that's a no-brainer decision. I can't say I'm happy to hear it, but best of luck "
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Nov 19, 2021 01:47
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Dik Hz posted:Welp. Client isn't willing to pay market and told the recruiting firm to tell the recruiter to tell me to name another lower number after sharing their admittedly generous benefits package and indicating they were flexible on vacation. Unfortunately, after a tentative agreement with their HR, the HR person has to OK it with the CEO. Kinda annoyed about that. I hate negotiating with people who can't approve deals. I wish my BATNA was better; I could then afford to hold firm on $Market+ and probably get it. Unfortunately for the reasons I posted, my BATNA sucks right now. Also, they seem to indicate that one reason they're reluctant to pay $Market is because a higher-up is underpaid and they don't want to pay this role more than that higher-up. So, there's another reason to negotiate: if you don't, all your reports will get shafted too. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 16:36
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Dik Hz posted:Unfortunately, after a tentative agreement with their HR, the HR person has to OK it with the CEO. Kinda annoyed about that. I hate negotiating with people who can't approve deals. Yeah that's really aggravating. I mean it's pretty transparent that they're going to come back and say "CEO approved your salary request but not the extra PTO so that's our firm offer." (Which might be pretty much what you had in mind as you're willing to sigh and accept?) Dik Hz posted:Also, they seem to indicate that one reason they're reluctant to pay $Market is because a higher-up is underpaid and they don't want to pay this role more than that higher-up. This is such godawful bullshit that just reading it raises my blood pressure.
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Nov 19, 2021 16:46
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah that's really aggravating. I mean it's pretty transparent that they're going to come back and say "CEO approved your salary request but not the extra PTO so that's our firm offer." (Which might be pretty much what you had in mind as you're willing to sigh and accept?) I'm also annoyed HR was playing hardball before even talking to the CEO. Eric the Mauve posted:This is such godawful bullshit that just reading it raises my blood pressure.
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Nov 19, 2021 16:48
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is such godawful bullshit that just reading it raises my blood pressure.
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Nov 19, 2021 16:51
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The corporate thread suggested this would be a good place to ask about negotiating a sign on bonus. I’m moving from contractor to full time with my client. Since I wont be getting a bonus from my current employer when I make the jump, new employer is offering a sign on bonus. The catch is they were wondering what my bonus this year was gonna be. Obviously I want to get as much as I can, here are the details I have: *I know they offered my staff who made the move 10k as a sign on for lower level positions. *New job likely knows about what I am making now, approximately 100k. *They likely know my boss at the current employer put me in for a promotion since they have to renegotiate the contract for a higher role. Im wondering if I suggesting 15k is reasonable. This is based on how clearly I am already doing well and if some one is exceeding objectives a 15% bonus isn’t unheard of, and they may have the evidence as well.
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Nov 19, 2021 17:56
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Ask for what you want as a sign-on. The idea that your sign on bonus should be based on your projected bonus is hilariously dumb, the two have no actual relation. How could they possibly know what your bonus would be? Shoot for the stars on this one.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:14
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Dik Hz posted:Also, they seem to indicate that one reason they're reluctant to pay $Market is because a higher-up is underpaid and they don't want to pay this role more than that higher-up. Isn’t this a huge red flag? You sure you want to accept this job?
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Nov 19, 2021 21:03
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Dik Hz posted:Also, they seem to indicate that one reason they're reluctant to pay $Market is because a higher-up is underpaid and they don't want to pay this role more than that higher-up. This is loving insane and it's even more insane that they told you this before you were even hired. I know you need a job ASAP, but this is honestly one of the most clear red flags you could be given.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:06
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Not a Children posted:Ask for what you want as a sign-on. The idea that your sign on bonus should be based on your projected bonus is hilariously dumb, the two have no actual relation. How could they possibly know what your bonus would be? Shoot for the stars on this one. This isn't the typical case. The person is moving from contractor to full-time. The only reason they're even getting offered a signon bonus is to replace the bonus they're missing and the company likely has insight into what they're being paid currently. I would be concerned about getting caught in a lie if they try to pass off a large amount as their expected bonus. If you know they don't have insight then shoot for the stars, but if they might I'd ask for the largest defensible amount. Based on the explanation $15k sounds good.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:17
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asur posted:This isn't the typical case. The person is moving from contractor to full-time. The only reason they're even getting offered a signon bonus is to replace the bonus they're missing and the company likely has insight into what they're being paid currently. I would be concerned about getting caught in a lie if they try to pass off a large amount as their expected bonus. If you know they don't have insight then shoot for the stars, but if they might I'd ask for the largest defensible amount. Based on the explanation $15k sounds good. Im fairly sure they have above average insight on pay. Performance I know my current boss is asking about a promotion in an attempt to get me to stay so they should already know my performance is well above average. Worst case they knock it down to 10k and I do only as well as my staff.
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Nov 20, 2021 01:52
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Dik Hz posted:Also, they seem to indicate that one reason they're reluctant to pay $Market is because a higher-up is underpaid and they don't want to pay this role more than that higher-up. Ugh this is transparent and saying the quite part out loud. Such bullshit.
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Nov 20, 2021 06:44
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Back in August, someone I used to work with reached out to me about a position with the mature startup they’re at now. That position was probably 2ish steps above my current position so I was somewhat interested so I had an informal chat with their SVP where he said he wasn’t entirely sure what role he wanted the position to be but he’d like me to talk with their recruiter and get the ball rolling. I talked a little bit about salary with the recruiter in that I said I wouldn’t be interested in any position with a base below $X (a significant increase for me) and eventually they told me they had settled on hiring for a position that was only 1 step up, but that still seemed interesting so I went through the interview process. I had a pre-offer meeting with the recruiter and in that call he told me actually the position would be a different, lateral move title and the offer was X-$10k base with a bonus that almost got it to $X. I was pretty irritated with that and told him it wasn’t any good so he said he’d circle back with the SVP and get back with me in a couple days and…that was 2 months ago and the last I heard from them. …until today when the recruiter emailed me asking if I wanted to talk next week! I had pretty much given up on them and assumed it was a bullet dodged but I figure I might as well take the meeting. Also, in the meantime my current job gave me a raise to $X so I’m even less inclined to move. Anyway, I guess my question is should I entertain offers at all or just assume they’re a shitshow and let it go? My thought was that I’d say I’m only interested now for a base of $X + [a lot] + at least the step up role. Based on the interview process, the work / culture seems fine but not particularly more appealing than what I’m doing now.
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Nov 20, 2021 07:39
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Thufir posted:Back in August, someone I used to work with reached out to me about a position with the mature startup they’re at now. That position was probably 2ish steps above my current position so I was somewhat interested so I had an informal chat with their SVP where he said he wasn’t entirely sure what role he wanted the position to be but he’d like me to talk with their recruiter and get the ball rolling. My own personal take - which probably deviates from the thread's a bit - is that I'll talk to whoever about whatever if they want. At the same time, I also don't want to waste a lot of time either. That being said, if I were in your position (I wish! haha) it sounds like you're in a really strong place so you can probably cut through the bullshit pretty quick and be like "I would need $money, and I'm currently interested in #Title/#Role, what do you have available that fits that?" and let them figure it out. I'm skeptical that they can meet what you want based on what you've already said, but my own personal opinion is that there's not much value in just hanging up on someone even if the offer is garbage. Throw something out there high enough that would be worth an automatic "yes" for, and see if they bite or not. Worst case, they ghost you again. I suppose the above thought doesn't apply to someplace so toxic that you'd never entertain working there, so no amount of money would make it worth it. But then I come back around to thinking that I can endure just about anything, for the right amount of money (even if that amount is so high that nobody is gonna pay it) 
Zarin fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Nov 20, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2021 12:14
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Thufir posted:Back in August, someone I used to work with reached out to me about a position with the mature startup they’re at now. That position was probably 2ish steps above my current position so I was somewhat interested so I had an informal chat with their SVP where he said he wasn’t entirely sure what role he wanted the position to be but he’d like me to talk with their recruiter and get the ball rolling. Could be a poo poo show, could just be they needed exec approval and they were busy with end of year stuff. You're in a great place since they've been slow. "I just got a promotion, and wouldn't be able to take an offer less than Y+x. I'm also not really interested in roles below Z level, commensurate to my current responsibilities." Get the money and the title IMO.
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Nov 20, 2021 16:13
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Yeah the play here is to tell them by phone/email "I was recently promoted and am very happy at my job, at this stage it would require X Title and $Y salary at minimum for me to be interested." If they're actually interested in enhancing your title and salary you can still meet with them again. It's probably likelier they were just hoping you'll now be interested in what they spoke of last time, in which case it would be a waste of your time to meet with them again, so just make clear your expectations before going forward.
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Nov 20, 2021 16:58
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Maybe talk to your former coworker, they should be able to indicate if it's a shitshow or not. "We had to pause hiring for a new position for a couple months" isn't like a great sign but also is not that uncommon and is the kind of thing that's happened at every company at one point or another. I agree with the thread that if it was worth talking to them before its worth talking to them now, just adjust your numbers accordingly.
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Nov 20, 2021 21:23
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Hi all, I'm currently working fully work from home remotely (and expected to work in this capacity going forward) and am having performance reviews. From all accounts by my managers they are more than satisfied with my work and impressed with my performance, though I am awaiting their official responses before I talk to them about a raise. Currently I make around 21 an hour as an Accounting Associate, but I'd really like to be making something to the tune of $23-24. Is this feasible? Any tips for negotiating a raise at my current company (rather than the framing in OP of a job offer)? For information, the financials are fantastic (record breaking revenues) and my performance has been top notch. But I am inexperienced in the realm of negotiating. Another thing to consider is if I were to leave soon for another employer the current management would be immensely inconvenienced as I basically own a whole process and replacing my labor quickly would be difficult. So I want to know if I could leverage that as well.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:08
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Best way to get a raise is find a new job
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Nov 20, 2021 23:40
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