Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I mean, I liked the part where it was awesome, but I thought the villagers ganking a trolloc was a nice little bit of foreshadowing

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I completely agree. I honestly couldn't be happier* with the series. The fact that it got made at all is incredible, let alone that it's this good.

*BRING BACK B-ZANE

Submarine Sandpaper posted:

I wonder if faile will get axed too

Submarine Sandpaper posted:

I wonder if faile will get axed too

Intruder posted:

Watching the second episode right now I'm geeking out over Hopper

Colonel Cool posted:

I thought people might be hungry for react content. My girlfriend's predictions based on nothing more than having seen the three episodes.

- Rand becomes the Dragon
- Egwene becomes a powerful Aes Sedai but ends up getting sidelined in the final battle because Rand has to have the bulk of the glory as the main protagonist.
- Nynaeve becomes a Darkfriend out of hatred of the Aes Sedai.
- Perrin and Egwene have a thing
- Rand and Egwene end up together
- Mat or Perrin dies at some point
- Lan dies defending Moiraine
- Moiraine sacrifices herself defending Rand
- Reluctant alliance with the Whitecloaks
- Perrin becomes king of the wolves

ad090 posted:

Brandon Sanderson made a thread on reddit about the show, he basically disagreed with some of their decisions, but is happy about where it's headed. https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/qxt9h5/some_thoughts_from_brandon_episode_one/

He makes several more comments down the thread as well.

RandolphCarter posted:

Could you post some choice quotes? Reddit keeps demanding I sign up, and no.

Sanderson posted:

Haven't watched the final product yet, as I wasn't able to make the premier. Disclosure, I'm one of the producers. My part equated to reading the scripts and offering feedback directly to Rafe, the show runner. I'll be watching tonight, and there are a few details I'm curious to find out about in regards to whether he took my advice or not.

Biggest thing he and I disagreed on was Perrin's wife. I realize that there is a good opportunity here for Perrin to be shown with rage issues, and to be afraid of the potential beast inside of him. I liked that idea, but didn't like it being a wife for multiple reasons. First off, it feels a lot like the disposable wife trope (AKA Woman in the Fridge.) Beyond that, I think the trauma of having killed your wife is so huge, the story this is telling can't realistically deal with it in a way that is responsible. Perrin killing his wife then going off on an adventure really bothers me, even still. I have faith that the writers won't treat it lightly, but still. That kind of trauma, dealt with realistically and responsibly, is really difficult for an adventure series to deal with.

I suggested instead that he kill Master Luhhhan. As much as I hate to do Luhhan dirty like that, I think the idea Rafe and the team had here is a good one for accelerating Perrin's plot. Accidentally killing your master steps the trauma back a little, but gives the same motivations and hesitance. One thing I don't want this WoT adaptation to try to do is lean into being a tonal Game of Thrones replacement--IE, I don't want to lean into the "Grimdark" ideas. Killing Perrin's wife felt edgy just to be edgy.

That said, I really liked a LOT about this first episode. I prefer this method of us not knowing who the Dragon is, and I actually preferred (EDIT: Well, maybe not prefer, but think it's a bold and interesting choice that I understand) this prologue. I thought it was a neat, different take on how to start the WoT. I really liked the introduction to Mat, and in screenplay form, I thought the pacing was solid--fast, catchy, exciting. People are complaining about it, though, so maybe in show form it's too choppy. When I was on set, I liked the practical effects, and what I saw of the acting--so I'm expecting both of those to be great in the finished product.

EDIT: For those complaining about Abell Cauthon, I did try to get this one changed too. So at least they heard from one of us, offering complaint, before going to production. I always had a soft spot for him. I didn't expect them to change this, though, with Mat's more gritty backstory. Again, I do wish they had taken a less "grim" feel to all of this, though I do think the details of introducing Mat were interesting and a nice acceleration of his character. Which is a good thing, since the series will need to condense from the books, so moving character beats up in time is going to generally help with that.

This team is excellent, I have to say. Episode six is the best--least, I think that's the number of the one I'm thinking about--so be on the lookout for it. But they have real respect for the story, and are good writers. This is an enormously difficult project to undertake, and I'm quite impressed by Rafe and everyone involved



It's curious you'd ask this, as I personally didn't even think to ask this. I wasn't there during brainstorming or in the writer's room. I don't not one who can answer this question.

But at the same time, I view the first three books of WoT as adventure fiction. It's not until Book Four that I see it transitioning in the worldbuilding/political intrigue epic that it eventually becomes. So it feels appropriate for the start to be adventure feel.

I mean, the opening of Eye of the World is pretty derivative plot-wise of Fellowship of the Ring. Small town. Mysterious wizard. Dark Rider. Town at the edge of what they know. Ferry crossing. It's a straight up fantasy quest. This isn't bad; the setting and characters are original (only one-to-one character lift is Bill the Pony, done as more of a nod, as Bela) and many plots are repeated across works. (Much of the start of Mistborn borrows from heist narratives.)

But adventure fiction is very much in the WoT's DNA. It's always been interesting to me that RJ started moving into a more political intrigue narrative right before A Game of Thrones came out. I like how he anticipated the rise of this style of fantasy. We often laud GRRM for his part in this movement, but RJ was right there too.

As you raise the issue, though, I could see that there were other ways to have gone. I just didn't find it odd this was the way they went.

quote:

bill = bela

Mage_Boy posted:

adhuin posted:

Dead mentor as a trope isn’t much different from what we got.

Invalid Validation posted:

Unless she shows up later somehow it was pretty pointless.

Johnny Joestar posted:

yeah i feel like some people wildly misinterpret egwene just wanting to be respected by those around her for whatever reason. i remember someone talking about how it was good that she died because otherwise she would have become some power-hungry tyrant and it was incredibly baffling as poo poo and i had to wonder how the hell they beefed that up so bad.

Gwaihir posted:

this is totally alien to me because I felt like after everything she went through in unifying the tower, all of her scenes as Amyrlin, the confrontation with Mesaana, finally whipping some sense in to the Hall and the rest of the Aes Sedai who want to be scheming as usual, it's all awesome. Just a great payoff after a long arc. The only quibble is just the reflexive thing with the seals, for me.

Torrannor posted:

I generally like Egwene quite a bit, but arguing that any criticism of her is because "any time a woman uses her authority or power against the express wishes of a male character it's illegitimate" thinking is a bit much.

There's already the issue with the Oath Rod. Retaining it's usage might actually be a necessary thing to make people trust them at least a little bit, because right now, they're far and away seen as the most dishonest channeling organization. So if you combine keeping the Three Oaths with reforming the Aes Sedai to gain the genuine trust of the people, while also using the Kin to show that channelers can be trusted without them, with the medium term goal to abolish the Oaths, that would make sense. Instead Egwene spouts some bullshit how the Three Oaths are what makes Aes Sedai Aes Sedai.

As for her reign as Amyrlin after the last battle, just look at how she tries to get hooks into the Wind Finders and the Wise Ones with the goal to eventually bind the to the White Tower. In that meeting when she proposed exchange of Accepted/apprentices/Windfinders in training, her internal monologue makes it clear it's a step to eventually get the White Tower in control over those organizations. In contrast, the White Ones agree with it so other can learn from them. It's pretty disgusting of Egwene imho.

Then there are things like her being adamant that Rand is at fault for Asha'man binding Aes Sedai, and how that's totally unacceptable, and Rand better do something about that and he also has to apologize. But when challenged directly by Nynaeve how Egwene would then have to take responsibility for Elaida sending Aes Sedai to wipe out the Black Tower in entirety, she's basically unwilling to do that at all. And also the memorable scene where she complains that compulsion was used on the sisters captures after Dumai's Wells, and how that's a thousand times worse than compulsion being used against non-Aes Sedai.

Credit where credit's due, she reminds the Red Ajah that Saidin is now clean and that their purpose must change, and when Silviana replies that men are not to be trusted, she thinks to herself that the Reds will need to move beyond that sentiment. And she's certainly believing that Aes Sedai can learn a great deal from other channeling organizations, which is a far better attitude than most Sisters have. But she also has real flaws, and the biggest imho is that she has bought into Aes Sedai propaganda that the White Tower must "lead" (speak control) basically all channelers. Now that's probably in no small part because she's fantasy pope, head of the organization. The other channeling societies don't have a single all powerful leader (except the Black Tower, being modeled after the White Tower). The Kin and the Wise Ones are councils, and while there's a highest ranking Windfinder, there's a non-channeler in authority over her. So I think it's absolutely believable that Egwene would come to see Aes Sedai dominance over channelers more positively, it's the old "power corrupts" mechanic. This makes her character just more believable to me. I still really like her, but think those are real flaws she has.

Which is why her death might be a blessing in disguise for the Aes Sedai. It's also probably not healthy to have a single woman being in charge of the organization for 250+ years, as would have happened if Egwene had survived the last battle. Cadsuane will probably at most have 20 years or so left before dying or retiring into the Kin? But that's idle speculation, sadly (RIP Jordan ). And Cadsuane has her own flaws. And unrelated, Egwene deserved her very badass death scene, plus nearly as badass pep-talk giving as a ghost to Rand. Also, why are we discussing Egwene dying in unmarked spoilers? Wasn't there somebody here who in the last few pages said that they're just now reading Towers of Midnight?

Torrannor posted:

I wrote that Egwene's death might be a blessing in disguise, and I go over in great detail here:

I find it incredibly ironic that Gwaihir lauds her for dealing with the scheming among the Aes Sedai, but totally ignores how Egwene in her own PoV in Towers of Midnight is scheming how to bind the Windfinders and Wise Ones to the White Tower. But if you just want to do away with criticism of a character you like by writing it off as misogyny, be my guest.

SirSamVimes posted:

Someone in the other thread noticed that when he axed her, she had her hammer raised facing him.



That, and the weird tension the two of them had earlier makes me believe the Laila Darkfriend theory, and that some part of Perrin instinctively was defending himself from her even if he didn't consciously know what he was doing.

Jedit posted:

In that screenshot [spoiler]she's quite clearly looking at the ground, not at Perrin. You look at the thing you're going to hit, and that's the Trolloc.