je1 healthcare posted:

Again, you seem to think that the US administration has been the source of any info in the Peng case. They haven't, and nobody here is taking them at face value either.

Still, you're comparing too vastly different crimes and situations. I've had tankies on twitter calling hypocrisy on the western media for not reporting more on the accusations against Cuomo and Prince Andrew, which is a far better parallel. Even though...they have reported it. Their victims haven't been censored, they've gotten far more coverage, and the charges against those men are moving through the public courts.

Also lol at your post in the other thread calling the entire Japanese race untrustworthy and comparing half-black tennis pro Naomi Osaka to David Duke for daring to being one of the first to speak up for her friend:

A big flaming stink posted:

gently caress all cops but it should be noted that at least judging by the hong kong protests china's police force is notably more restrained than the US.

CaptainACAB posted:

Do you have to brag in both forums about how little you know about the Japanese state and Japanese press?

Tell me, can you tell me what Shinzo Abe's grandfather did? Who put him into power? Can you tell me about Nippon Kaigi? Can you tell me who owns the major Japanese press organizations, and who founded them? Furthermore, can you fill me in on what said founders were doing from 1937 to 1945? How about in the post war period?

No?

Then kindly shut the gently caress up.

Kalit posted:

You sure about that? https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3128836/hong-kong-protests-more-10200-arrested-connection-unrest

CaptainACAB posted:

Do you have to brag in both forums about how little you know about the Japanese state and Japanese press?

Tell me, can you tell me what Shinzo Abe's grandfather did? Who put him into power? Can you tell me about Nippon Kaigi? Can you tell me who owns the major Japanese press organizations, and who founded them? Furthermore, can you fill me in on what said founders were doing from 1937 to 1945? How about in the post war period?

No?

Then kindly shut the gently caress up.

Silver2195 posted:

How does any of this have any bearing on Naomi Osaka's trustworthiness?

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

This guy hasn't seen the hundreds of eye losses in HK protestors aswell as other injuries and deaths. Getting hit in the head with a teargas cannisters will kill you.

je1 healthcare posted:

I assume you're describing a bunch of war criminals, but first you'd have to tell me how any of that is related. Are japanese war criminals controlling every press outlet and Naomi Osaka from the grave? Or are we disregarding an entire country due to their cursed bloodline?

Also, can you name any countries that weren't carrying out some sort of human rights atrocity between 1937 and 1945? Surely there must be one reliable press outlet in them somewhere

Despera posted:

Were talking about the chinese goverment. You know that one who imprisoned millions for existing, now maybe one for calling out a rape.

CaptainACAB posted:

Ok this is a very verbose way to tell me you know nothing about the Japanese state, the Japanese press, the intersections between the two and the proven links between both and American intelligence. gently caress, you don't even seem to understand that the Japanese are racist as gently caress in general, but against the Chinese in particular!

But sure keep digging kiddo.

Silver2195 posted:

How does any of this have any bearing on Naomi Osaka's trustworthiness?

CaptainACAB posted:

I don't give a gently caress what Naomi Osaka has to say on anything really.

I do, however, care when people think the Japanese press, much of which was founded by actual convicted war criminals who carried out a genocide in China that rivals the Holocaust in scope and scale, and are part of a state apparatus which aggressively censors any discussion of said war crimes in service to an explicitly revanchist and revisionist clique which has ruled Japan since the war ended, can be considered in any way reliable on China.

CaptainACAB posted:

Ok this is a very verbose way to tell me you know nothing about the Japanese state, the Japanese press, the intersections between the two and the proven links between both and American intelligence. gently caress, you don't even seem to understand that the Japanese are racist as gently caress in general, but against the Chinese in particular!

But sure keep digging kiddo.

Plastic_Gargoyle posted:

Remember folks, you're responsible for the sins of your parents!

CaptainACAB posted:

When you run an organization that alternates between denying the genocide your (actual, literal) fathers carried out and apologizing for it, and that counts most of Japan's ruling class (and the owbers of almost all it's press) as members , then yes, absolutely.

As it so happens, Shinzo Abe did exactly that very thing! And his successor does the same, as did both their predecessors. They don't even try to hide it and their membership in Nippon Kiagi is public knowledge.

But please yes tell me how these people are unbiased and reliable sources on China, the people they still publicly regret not exterminating.

CaptainACAB posted:

When you run an organization that alternates between denying the genocide your (actual, literal) fathers carried out and apologizing for it, and that counts most of Japan's ruling class (and the owbers of almost all it's press) as members , then yes, absolutely.

As it so happens, Shinzo Abe did exactly that very thing! And his successor does the same, as did both their predecessors. They don't even try to hide it and their membership in Nippon Kiagi is public knowledge.

But please yes tell me how these people are unbiased and reliable sources on China, the people they still publicly regret not exterminating.

je1 healthcare posted:

Naomi Osaka is obviously on the side of the Japanese xenophobes that regularly send her death threats for daring to represent Japan and wishes for nothing more than to instigate the next great Chinese genocide by demanding proof of life from a personal friend of hers.

"Much"? So you acknowledge that not every Japanese press outlet is tied to some sort of war criminal? Or is there some reason we can disregard those too? I'm really just going down the list to find one that isn't 5 degrees of separation from A Government

Well yes, I directly asked you to tell me how they're related, but you seem keen on dismissing an entire ethnicity as incapable of journalism, so I don't think there's much discussion to be had here.

Kalit posted:

I'm unsure if you were talking to me or the poster I was responding to, but just to be explicitly clear to those who think HK protestors weren't also severely injured by police: https://apnews.com/article/health-ap-top-news-international-news-arrests-hong-kong-e054402fd7d4489fb2f1d29368e3b945

Android Blues posted:

I feel like many people on both sides of the discussion here have a fairly limited understanding of what happened to Peng Shuai in terms of sexual coercion. One poster earlier seemed to think she'd been assaulted by a tennis coach? Other posters have gotten confused and referred to her by the name of a different woman, Fan Bingbing. That's probably not what she would have wanted when she originally shared her story, and from a feminist perspective it's pretty eye-roll worthy.

In view of respecting her actual experience, rather than talking past her as a means to relitigate whether you think China is good or bad, here's a translation of the post she made.



Zhang Gaoli brought her to his house, took her into a locked room with a guard posted outside the door, and tried to cajole her into sex. She initially refused. She stayed for dinner with Zhang and his wife, after which Zhang started coercing her again. She describes being terrified, panicking, and eventually agrees. She flatly states at one point that Zhang forced her into sex.

After this, they have a relationship. Peng describes feeling suicidal, as well as various other symptoms of serious emotional abuse, but also develops feelings for Zhang Gaoli. She vacillates between ardent love and the pain she feels at the way he cavalierly uses her. Zhang forces her to keep the relationship a secret, since it would be bad for his public image if people knew he was having an extramarital affair. Even Peng's mother is not allowed to know that she is sleeping with Zhang. After three years, he unceremoniously tires of her and removes her from his life. At this point, she goes public.

I think for both sides of this discussion, it's important to read this story. I've seen tankies on Twitter claiming, "see, she grew to love him, so it wasn't sexual assault and this isn't a problem!" - a flatly repulsive view that deserves no respect.

If it's not clear, I think this is a very clear account of a powerful politician preying on a vulnerable woman, forcing her to have sex with him, then keeping her as a deeply unhappy mistress until he gets bored. The fact that Peng developed feelings for her persecutor only makes the whole thing darker and more horrible - it's in no way an ameliorating factor.

So that's not why I'm sharing it. I'm sharing it because, from a feminist perspective, it is really, really bothersome to me to see people in this thread get into the mud-throwing trenches about whether China is a nightmare police state or a wonderful utopia, using Peng's story as a pretext, without ever paying attention to the testimony of the victim at the centre of the issue. I personally think it's an absolute nightmare what has happened to her for exposing the man who abused her, but regardless of what you think, you should read her words.

CaptainACAB posted:

The two largest newspapers in the world are both Japanese and both pro LDP and the official stance of the LDP is that either Japan did nothing wrong or that Japan did one thing wrong, and that one thing was not exterminating all Chinese people.

Both of which, by the way, are part of gigantic media conglomerates that run virtually all the Japanese media.

This is pretty simple poo poo here.

Smeef posted:

This thread sure turned into a bunch of madmen flinging poo poo over the weekend. Some of you should probably get on a rabavert course just to be safe.

This was pretty much the only good post in the last few pages, and it was totally ignored:

Android Blues posted:

How are u posted:

Peng Shuai: WTA says Chinese tennis star’s call with IOC chief is not enough
Whereabouts of former doubles world number one have been a matter of international concern for nearly three weeks

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/22/peng-shuai-wta-says-chinese-tennis-stars-call-with-ioc-chief-is-not-enough

GreyjoyBastard posted:

this was definitely the best post in the last while, what with actually containing, summarizing, AND commenting on Peng's central post

A big flaming stink posted:

Honestly I think the most straightforward explanation for her behavior is she received pushback for the statement she made from some social force (maybe the state, maybe her social circle, something like that) and decided trying to get justice wasn't going to be worth it.

Like that absolutely loving sucks, but it's not a China is an authoritarian hellhole thing, it's a patriarchy and rape culture thing.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

this was definitely the best post in the last while, what with actually containing, summarizing, AND commenting on Peng's central post

Wistful of Dollars posted:

BrigadierSensible posted:

Also a thing that has been ignored in all discussion of Mossad and Japanese media ownership.

Peng Shuai's rapist will most likely never face justice.

This. Is. A. Bad. Thing.

Pharohman777 posted:

Hey captain ACAB, where in the word did you get that 'all of japan is an untrustworthy and fascist monolith' attitude? You pull it out of some dr.seuss ww2 propaganda and give it a fresh coat of paint?

Smeef posted:

This thread sure turned into a bunch of madmen flinging poo poo over the weekend.

Despera posted:

I think you can be reductive with genocide because it is literally the worse thing. But the roads are good! isnt a great response.

Andorra posted:

I'm not really invested in this incident one way or another, but after reading some of the arguments I do have a hypothetical question for the people in the thread who believe the worst out of the Chinese government, be it that they're controlling everything she's posting, or whatever.

How do you tell the difference between the government not allowing someone to say something and that someone just not wanting to say something? How do you tell the difference between her showing up to a thing on her own and the government tagging along, off screen from what you can see?

Kalit posted:

I'm unsure if you were talking to me or the poster I was responding to, but just to be explicitly clear to those who think HK protestors weren't also severely injured by police: https://apnews.com/article/health-ap-top-news-international-news-arrests-hong-kong-e054402fd7d4489fb2f1d29368e3b945

Pharohman777 posted:

Hey captain ACAB, where in the word did you get that 'all of japan is an untrustworthy and fascist monolith' attitude? You pull it out of some dr.seuss ww2 propaganda and give it a fresh coat of paint?

CaptainACAB posted:

Also sounds like those Chinese people are absolutely right about this reporter. I wish China was actually authoritarian as people like this say it is, this lady seems like she would benefit from a weekend in lubyanka.

je1 healthcare posted:

And only about 10% of US criminal cases are handled by those federal courts. In state and local courts, conviction rates range from 60-80% depending on the crime and locality. Excellent cherry-picking though, it's a shame I've seen CCP apologists do it before