|
I was almost ready to slam down 1100€ for a 3070 Ti, mainly just so I could play DCS World VR at more than 36 FPS. My current 1660 can never quite reach 45 FPS and I would need to stay above it, preferably above 60 FPS. GTA 5 that I've recently been playing run fine, unless I manage to get the VR mod working on it.
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 10:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 13:47 |
|
|
That to me is an insane amount of money to be spending on a GPU, especially of that caliber.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 10:20
|
|
|
The 3070 Ti seems super not worth that, but I don't know what prices are like in europe right now.Rinkles posted:Some discounts on Newegg prebuilts today. Nothing too great, but most of what I saw wasn't a rip off. This PC that Heroic Yoshimitsu bought is one of the headliner for their black friday prebuilts, but it's the same price it's been for the last couple weeks lol: https://www.newegg.com/abs-ali570/p...A1A&ignorebbr=1 This one's similar to the PC above, but with a 3060 Ti and 500GB more storage, for $200 more. Oh, and the case looks like a confusingly designed airflow nightmare. Why did they intentionally limit the size of the air vents along the sides of the front panel?? At least it ships with a decent cpu cooler: https://www.newegg.com/abs-ala269/p/N82E16883360203 There's this questionable 5600X/3070 prebuilt for $1620. I have never heard of this brand before, but the components seem decent. The questionable part is the case and the lack of airflow (as usual with prebuilts). Some guy in the reviews had a fun-sounding time of adding his own cpu cooler (the cpu stuck to the heatsink coldplate due to sticky thermal paste, i wonder if they're using thermal epoxy or something), but temps were under control with the new cooler: https://www.newegg.com/yeyian-ypb-kat-r02-katana-r02/p/N82E16883630006?quicklink=true There are no good deals on prebuilts with a 3080 or better, naturally. Despite its quirks, that 3070 prebuilt may be my pick of the bunch, just because it's a good value for a prebuilt (you almost never see 3070 prebuilts that cheap), and you can get a decent $50 cooler to fix the thermal issues. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Nov 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 10:42
|
|
|
Gotta love having to return an item and reorder it to get the $20 difference two days after buying it. Waste of everyone's time and money. e:I wasn't allowed to order a second one, which was sufficient reason to finally get the price difference back. e2:lol, apparently Amazon flagged it as damaged to justify the discount I got Rinkles fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Nov 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
Amazon has the AMD 5900x on sale for $484: https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5900X-24-Thread-Processor/dp/B08164VTWH. If I wanted to buy a CPU of this tier for compute work, is this a good deal if I also need to buy a motherboard or would one of the new Intel chips+motherboard be a better buy?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:What games are people even playing with these $1500 graphics cards. I thought everyone hated Cyberpunk. I haxxored a Pixar rendering farm and stole all their flops for MS Flight Simulator. At 720p, it sure looks ok. Not that they let me game in prison for da hax anyway. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 20:54
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:Amazon has the AMD 5900x on sale for $484: https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5900X-24-Thread-Processor/dp/B08164VTWH. If I wanted to buy a CPU of this tier for compute work, is this a good deal if I also need to buy a motherboard or would one of the new Intel chips+motherboard be a better buy? Can you clarify what you mean by “compute work?” Would it actually be able to take advantage of 16c/32t? Do you have existing components you would pair with this CPU (ie DDR4 ram, GPU, storage)? Or would you need to do a full build?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:Amazon has the AMD 5900x on sale for $484: https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5900X-24-Thread-Processor/dp/B08164VTWH. If I wanted to buy a CPU of this tier for compute work, is this a good deal if I also need to buy a motherboard or would one of the new Intel chips+motherboard be a better buy? The 5900x/Ryzen shines compared to even the new intels when dealing with specific non-gaming workloads. That seems like a pretty good deal to me if you can justify the 5900x over a 5800x. Because the 5800x deal is even better at $341. https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-58...ps%2C101&sr=8-7 Edit: also for anyone looking, they have 11400f in stock near MSRP, which if the 12600 is too pricy for your budget is a fantastic option. Better than the 3600x, and comparable with the 5600x above 1080p https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-114...ps%2C139&sr=8-6 Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Nov 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
Ok, as an alternative to the fire hazard NZXT I was looking at before, I see Dell has a special on one of their desktops with an 11700 and RTX 3060 for $1350. https://deals.dell.com/en-us/productdetail/bknr My worry is I've had bad experiences with Dell and other big OEM desktops like that over my lifetime compared with great experiences with desktops I've build myself. But it's been over a decade since I dealt with one sooo...
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Dell have not improved by all accounts, if anything they’ve gotten worse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
powderific posted:Ok, as an alternative to the fire hazard NZXT I was looking at before, I see Dell has a special on one of their desktops with an 11700 and RTX 3060 for $1350. https://deals.dell.com/en-us/productdetail/bknr Dell's pretty bad, expect it all to be proprietary parts in a stifling case. At least with the H1 you could move everything to a $60 case and ditch the riser if it's still a concern.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
powderific posted:Ok, as an alternative to the fire hazard NZXT I was looking at before, I see Dell has a special on one of their desktops with an 11700 and RTX 3060 for $1350. https://deals.dell.com/en-us/productdetail/bknr I would go with the NZXT over that 100% because you can change cases. You can also peek in the case when you get it and see which riser you have, and replace the riser if need be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 22:36
|
|
|
My wife wants to build a desktop for graphic design, but I have no clue what the priorities are for that! Help! What country are you in? United States What are you using the system for? Graphic design, specifically lots of complex vectoring What's your budget? Around $1200, with some wiggle room up if needed If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? It won't be used for gaming, only graphic design, but it will be on a 4K monitor - if it makes a difference, we're totally willing to drop down to 1080 If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? Affinity Designer, Illustrator, Photoshop, Inkscape. Usually running 500-600 layers at a time in Affinity and Photoshop. 80% of the work is done on Affinity, 20% on Photoshop, and the other programs listed are used for various stuff along the way. This is a new build and not an upgrade, so will need a case and speakers, though monitor and kb+m are accounted for. The rig also would not be in range to plug into a modem, so it'll need wireless capability (is that standard built-in somewhere nowadays? Last rig I built I bought a wireless card and have been moving that along since lol) Gaming performance isn't a priority, though I'd guess that the parts required would probably make it okay at medium-low settings anyways?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
I bought one of those prebuilts from bestbuy that were linked earlier, what's a good program these days to keep track of CPU and GPU temps, and for that matter where do I figure out what reasonable temps would be?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 22:42
|
|
|
i like msi afterburner, some people swear by hwinfo. google around the specific part to tell, you want the thermal throttling value (ie, when it starts turning itself down to compensate for the heat) but 60s and 70s are always good for the main components.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
Network42 posted:I bought one of those prebuilts from bestbuy that were linked earlier, what's a good program these days to keep track of CPU and GPU temps, and for that matter where do I figure out what reasonable temps would be? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
vanilla slimfast posted:Can you clarify what you mean by “compute work?” Would it actually be able to take advantage of 16c/32t? The biggest lifting is going to be embarrassingly parallel scientific computing tasks, including both simulations and data loading and preprocessing for ML on a GPU. I don't know if every job would max out every thread in the preprocessing task since it'd need to work in concert with the GPU. I already have a 3090 for the GPU but need to buy all the other components. The few non-gaming benchmarks I've found show the top 12th gen intel chip beating the 5900x sometimes by 10-20% but I dunno how rendering or code compilation benchmarks translate to more niche workloads.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 23:54
|
|
|
change my name posted:Dell's pretty bad, expect it all to be proprietary parts in a stifling case. At least with the H1 you could move everything to a $60 case and ditch the riser if it's still a concern. Pilfered Pallbearers posted:I would go with the NZXT over that 100% because you can change cases. Thanks all, that's really what I'd prefer for other reasons anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
Network42 posted:I bought one of those prebuilts from bestbuy that were linked earlier, what's a good program these days to keep track of CPU and GPU temps, and for that matter where do I figure out what reasonable temps would be? HWinfo64 is what I use, though it has a bit of an information overload problem for newcomers. Basically, the values to look for there are CPU tdie (tracks the hottest core), your GPU average and memory junction (hotspot can be useful too, but the average is what is used to throttle the card for nvidia), and I like keeping track of the various voltages and power consumption metrics (power consumed = heat output, basically 1:1) though that's a bit more advanced. What's considered "safe" changes depending on who you ask. Modern processors will throttle themselves when they get too hot, which means that a hot system runs worse, but it's technically "safe" because your components aren't letting themselves reach the point of immediate failure. When this throttling occurs for CPUs, the temperature readout will appear red in hwinfo. Components that operate at or near this throttle point on a regular basis will still see a reduced lifespan over those that don't, though how much it matters is hard to tell, and this isn't something that has been tested well. For most CPUs these days, this throttle point is at or near 100C. For Nvidia 30-series GPUs, the throttle point is usually around 83C by default*, though they allow you to easily change that with software like MSI Afterburner. That seems dangerous, so I wouldn't do that. I believe they'll also throttle if your memory gets too hot. Not sure what the GDDR6 point is, but nvidia set their GDDR6X point at 110C.** And now for the part where everyone seems to have their own opinion: For the CPU, I'd say that if you regularly enter the 90s, that's a sign that there's something wrong and you should address the issue. The 80s is fine for heavy loads, and the 90s are fine for very heavy loads, but only briefly. I've seen prebuilts that enter the 90s or even reach 100 while gaming, and those are badly built machines. For 30-series GPUs, I'd say the point of concern is the thermal throttle point of 83. There's a problem if you're regularly hitting that (mostly because you're losing performance), though hanging out in the low 80s is mostly fine as long as your memory hotspot isn't in the 100s. If you bought the prebuilt I think you bought, your gpu temps will probably not be a concern, unless they used a card with a particularly cheap and crappy cooler. The CPU might be an issue, though. We'll see on that one, I guess. *(nvidia's throttle is more of a "soft throttle" where it more gradually brings your clock speed down while allowing the gpu to get a little bit hotter still. some software actually lets you edit this curve. intel's throttle points are hard throttles, which means they'll let you reach the throttle point at full speed then hard throttle you the moment you do. AMD works a little bit like nvidia, though you can't see or change the soft throttle point, it happens behind the scenes. amd and nvidia's are smarter due to how power leakage works--chips require more power the hotter they get, thus producing more heat--so dropping clocks before you lose too much efficiency is more optimal) **(That is higher than Micron's specifications, and plenty of people have burnt out their memory by letting their memory sit in the 100s for prolonged periods of time (miners, mostly). If disregarding Micron's specifications sounds irresponsible of nvidia, that's because it is. The 3060 Ti I think you're getting uses the cooler-running regular GDDR6 though, so you don't have to worry about that.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
I slightly disagree with GPUs in the 80s being ok. Unless you’re frame capped well below your capable FPS with your GPU, If you’re chilling in the 80s when you get hit with large GPU based situation you’ll frequently get a huge performance spike from the heat load. Not always, but enough to be worth investing in a situation where you’re not constantly teetering on the edge of the abyss.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 01:52
|
|
|
I'm curious whether moving my 970 from an SFF to a big case with good airflow, will make much of a difference to its temps, given that it's a blower.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
so long as you're not hitting the thermal limit you're fine, and you can crank that poo poo higher and everything is fine. you usually get at least +10% power limit even in poor cards with restrictive VBIOS. if you're concerned about long term lifetime of the device buy a better warranty, if my evga card breaks in five years time i might get an upgrade 
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:so long as you're not hitting the thermal limit you're fine, and you can crank that poo poo higher and everything is fine. you usually get at least +10% power limit even in poor cards with restrictive VBIOS. if you're concerned about long term lifetime of the device buy a better warranty, if my evga card breaks in five years time i might get an upgrade I never bothered trying to overclock it cause I was pretty sure it would cook itself in my previous case. As an example, when I recently installed an M.2 nvme, I was pretty terrified to find the drive would idle at around 55C. And it would go beyond 60C when in game even when it was not the drive in use.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 02:25
|
|
|
I pulled the trigger on an i7-12700K and the Gigabyte Auros Elite AX Mobo after finally selling some hardware I had laying around. I hope I don't end up kicking myself for sticking with the DDR4 version, but it should be a solid upgrade over my current i7-8700k which will be moving on to server duties. I also threw in a Corsair RM1000X since I've been eyeing an RTX 3080TI or 3090 step-up. The worst part is going to be waiting for the adapter kit for my CPU cooler that won't be here till next week.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
LASER BEAM DREAM posted:I pulled the trigger on an i7-12700K and the Gigabyte Auros Elite AX Mobo after finally selling some hardware I had laying around. I'm sure you know DDR5 is really expensive atm, but it's also seemingly impossible to get ahold of (unless something changed in the last few days).
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
Previously, voltage control for RAM happened on the motherboard, but now it happens on each individual DIMM. The unforeseen consequence of this is that you need many more voltage control chips now that they're going on every stick of ram. And they're more expensive to make this time around, too, with fewer suppliers. The result is that memory manufacturers are sitting on a glut of memory sticks waiting for the limited supply of voltage controllers to trickle through the supply chain, and thus DDR5 is really hard to find. The problem will sort itself out eventually, but expect DDR5 to be both rare and very overpriced for the next year or so.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 03:26
|
|
|
Yes, DDR5 RAM availability and my i5-4690k based server dying recently led me to sticking with DDR4. After finally getting an RTX 3080 I’m done scrambling to find hardware. I’ve decided I just won’t get PS5 in the next year or two. LASER BEAM DREAM fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Nov 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
DDR4 will be around for along while yet. Intel's next round of processor updates will still support it too and by the time we see low latency DDR5 that costs the same as DDR4, we will have gone through at least 2 CPU generations from now anyway but who knows, if this chip shortage and demand keeps up it could be even longer. Besides, DDR4 is still really really fast.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
I would not be buying DDR5 if I was building a 12 series system right now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 04:16
|
|
|
pcpartpicker is being a poopy head and wouldn't let me pick any form of DDR4 RAM with the motherboard I selected so here's a non-interactive price list:code:This would an upgrade from my current 8700k + 1080 card setup from March 2018 and the price above does not reflect the EVGA 3090  I scored via Newegg Shuffle recently. Would be recycling my current Nanoxia DS5 case by removing the old bits & transplanting them into the Phanteks. Not planning on overclocking or going the radiator route. Went with the 2 fan CPU cooler because I live in Florida in a house with poo poo A/C so summer room temps for me can be in the low 80s easily.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 05:45
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Both way too much for gaming and also not enough in some areas. There's a lot to unpack here, so let's go piece by piece... That's a lot of great information, thank you very much. I'll use the CPU you mentioned and a motherboard that is around half the price the one I had chosen earlier. Do you have a recommendation for memory? 32GB sounds good to me, but I don't need RGB lighting or anything since I was looking at the Meshify case you mentioned, without the glass panel. It looks like most 2x16GB sticks have the 18 CAS latency instead of 16. The m.2 drive technology is new to me, I'll try it out. I'll trim and rebuild my parts list. Thanks again for the feedback. Node fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 05:59
|
|
|
Node posted:32GB sounds good to me, but I don't need RGB lighting or anything since I was looking at the Meshify case you mentioned, without the glass panel. It looks like most 2x16GB sticks have the 18 CAS latency instead of 16. There are plenty of 16GB sticks with lower CAS, but good RAM timings come at a premium. I'm on the lookout for a deals on (8GB) 3600 C16 Ballistix RAM myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:09
|
|
|
This is similar to the build I was looking at a few days ago, but it's got a newer mobo and a 12th gen processor: https://www.awd-it.co.uk/awd-lian-l...23,16338-185247 Pretty close to going for this as it is. I wasn't sure whether to get the more expensive motherboard option here but I looked it up and they seem the same except for wifi, which I can get with a card for cheaper on here, so I went with that. Does it look good? I priced it out on pcpartpicker and I don't think it would be any cheaper to build it myself at £1569. Basically just coming for a last pass here before going for it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:11
|
|
|
MREBoy posted:pcpartpicker is being a poopy head and wouldn't let me pick any form of DDR4 RAM with the motherboard I selected so here's a non-interactive price list: When building a high-end system like that, I wouldn't cheap out on RAM. $35 more for DDR4-3600 will be worth it: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zcH8TW/gskill-ripjaws-v-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-32gvkc The board you've selected is supposed to be a $240 board, but it's out of stock at that price point. You should also consider the balance of PCIe slots, i/o, and m.2 storage that you want. That board seems to direct a lot of PCIe lanes to expansion slots, with a rather useless-looking full-length slot in the #2 position (your GPU will cover it). If you wouldn't make use of those then there may be better boards for you available. The MSI Pro Z690-A Wifi is a more balanced board, with a decent mix of expansion slots, m.2 slots, and i/o. I'd also consider buying a single 2TB drive rather than two 1TB drives just to keep more slots open. Something like this Adata XPG SX8200. Not really necessary though, especially if you switch to a board with 4 slots. Instead of an NH-U12A, consider the NH-D15. It's monstrously huge, but your case can fit it and it will keep that 12700K cool during even very heavy loads, and it's $10 cheaper than the U12A. I'm not quite sure why the U12A is more expensive, to be honest. The PSU is technically overkill (you can do 850W with your current build), but who knows, maybe it'll come in useful a few years down the line when high-end video cards are probably 600W or something dumb like that. Node posted:That's a lot of great information, thank you very much. I'll use the CPU you mentioned and a motherboard that is around half the price the one I had chosen earlier. Do you have a recommendation for memory? 32GB sounds good to me, but I don't need RGB lighting or anything since I was looking at the Meshify case you mentioned, without the glass panel. It looks like most 2x16GB sticks have the 18 CAS latency instead of 16. See the memory recommended above. And yeah, m.2 is what everyone is moving to right now. There are still some SATA SSDs being made right now, but they're slower and barely any cheaper than m.2 storage. As new chipsets come out with shitloads of m.2 slots like the Z690 has, SATA will become increasingly more niche. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:31
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:See the memory recommended above. And yeah, m.2 is what everyone is moving to right now. There are still some SATA SSDs being made right now, but they're slower and barely any cheaper than m.2 storage. As new chipsets come out with shitloads of m.2 slots like the Z690 has, SATA will become increasingly more niche. One downside is that they take up a lot of precious motherboard space. roomtone posted:This is similar to the build I was looking at a few days ago, but it's got a newer mobo and a 12th gen processor: I'll leave the proper analysis to the regulars, but to me that looks pretty solid (without commenting on price, since idk UK prices). I got the same case and it's a quality product.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:47
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:One downside is that they take up a lot of precious motherboard space. With a decent layout, you don't lose that much space on an ATX board. The drives can hang out on top of small components and circuitry without any conflicts, so it's really just the slots themselves and the mounting holes that take up space. This is a bigger deal on mATX and especially mITX, though. There's just nowhere to put two m.2 slots on an mITX board without doing weird PCB stacking shenanigans. You end up with a PCB sandwich with the m.2 drive on top of the audio, which is on top of the networking, like on this board.   edit: changed the image to one that gives a better look. That's two daughter boards stacked on top of each other, each with an m.2 slot. So with two drives, you can have a total of five PCBs layered on top of each other. amazing. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Nov 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:57
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:With a decent layout, you don't lose that much space on an ATX board. The drives can hang out on top of small components and circuitry without any conflicts, so it's really just the slots themselves and the mounting holes that take up space. Haha, look how they squeezed in the SATA ports  
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 07:11
|
|
|
asus will keep adding daughterboards on top of daughterboards until eventually their mitx motherboards are just a solid cube of pcb
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 07:16
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This is a bigger deal on mATX and especially mITX, though. There's just nowhere to put two m.2 slots on an mITX board without doing weird PCB stacking shenanigans. Or have one on the back of the board. I've got two m.2s in my b550 aorus itx build with heatsinks no problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 09:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 13:47 |
|
|
Just FYI I got another $10 off $50+ email from Newegg today.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 13:25
|
|