|
FirstAidKite posted:count von count Malkavian quote:count chocula Old Clan Tzimisce quote:bunnicula, It's just a rabbit, Chester. quote:and dio brando I'm pretty sure True Brujah were literally invented to be Dio Brando.
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:I'm pretty sure True Brujah were literally invented to be Dio Brando. V5 True Brujah need to have each Temporis dot correspond to the ability of that part's villain, i.e. at 3 dots you can stop time, at 4 dots you can reverse and loop it, at 5 dots you need someone else to explain how it works, and at 6 dots you will know what you need to achieve Heaven.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 01:21
|
|
|
And don’t forget the Salubri being the vampires from 3x3 Eyes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 02:01
|
|
|
True Brujah clan bane seems a poor fit for Dio’s extremely poor impulse control. RE: count Von count, I always wondered if it was clever research or just pure coincidence that his counting habits match that of the obsessive habits of some vampires in actual folklore; the ones where you could ward off a vampire by leaving grains on the ground because they would stop to count all of them. Gatto Grigio fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
okay this is the first I'm hearing of the True Brujah how does blood manipulation - which I think is how Discipliners work? Am I wrong? - let you control time
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:okay this is the first I'm hearing of the True Brujah how does blood manipulation - which I think is how Discipliners work? Am I wrong? - let you control time hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhhaha oh man the 90s were wild friend, that's how
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 02:43
|
|
|
Weren't they first brought up in DSotBH? The same place where Vissitude is claimed to be a Lovecraftian/Clive Barker infestation?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:okay this is the first I'm hearing of the True Brujah how does blood manipulation - which I think is how Discipliners work? Am I wrong? - let you control time How does it let you turn into a bat, or erase a person’s memories? It’s magic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 03:05
|
|
|
citybeatnik posted:Weren't they first brought up in DSotBH? The same place where Vissitude is claimed to be a Lovecraftian/Clive Barker infestation? It was. I believe Temporis is the 'pure' version of Celerity.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 03:16
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:okay this is the first I'm hearing of the True Brujah how does blood manipulation - which I think is how Discipliners work? Am I wrong? - let you control time What I read mentioned it as an iteration on the Brujah's celerity. Manipulating blood and vampire powers to go so fast you've removed yourself from the normal flow of time but with the added risk of loving up your body because stopping time is kinda like putting yourself through the wringer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 03:16
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:True Brujah clan bane seems a poor fit for Dio’s extremely poor impulse control. I would be very unsurprised either way if it was just "count, Count…get it" or "sneaking weird old folklore references into children's educational television" when it comes to the Henson crew. Blockhouse posted:okay this is the first I'm hearing of the True Brujah how does blood manipulation - which I think is how Discipliners work? Am I wrong? - let you control time While starting out most oWoD vampires are Forever Knight kinda folks, once you start getting into the higher or more specialized Disciplines, you begin seeing poo poo like "banish this motherfucker to the Outer Darkness" or "pull out my heart, put it somewhere safe, now no one can stake me." As Gatto said, it's magic. In fact, the "it's magic" Discipline is one of the worst offenders on this front, since it lets your wizard-vampire run down the list of fireballs, flying, telekinesis, weather control, etc. It's costly to sprawl like that, but if you're rooting around in the upper levels of other Disciplines, your Tremere peers are learning like a half-dozen entirely different new magical tricks. FirstAidKite posted:What I read mentioned it as an iteration on the Brujah's celerity. Manipulating blood and vampire powers to go so fast you've removed yourself from the normal flow of time but with the added risk of loving up your body because stopping time is kinda like putting yourself through the wringer. Like most Disciplines, it gets pretty wild when you try to bump into the 6+ ratings, so of course most of Temporis is "I go really fast, or predict the future/rewind the recent past" and then all of a sudden one of the powers is "bodily summon something out of the past." That's not even the level-9 power, it's the level-8. Level-9 is the lame rewind-recent-time one, which is always a terrible shitshow in a White Wolf game. And then there's the entry-level one-dot power that's just "I have a perfect sense of time, which gives me a sense for when Celerity is being used along with also always knowing what time it is, this was very worth 10 experience points." That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Nov 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 03:37
|
|
|
FirstAidKite posted:What I read mentioned it as an iteration on the Brujah's celerity. Manipulating blood and vampire powers to go so fast you've removed yourself from the normal flow of time but with the added risk of loving up your body because stopping time is kinda like putting yourself through the wringer. It's supposed to be manipulating the force that makes vampires immortal. But yeah - in practice, it's a lovely reverse-version of Celerity. Slow everyone else down a bit rather than speed yourself up a lot. citybeatnik posted:Weren't they first brought up in DSotBH? The same place where Vissitude is claimed to be a Lovecraftian/Clive Barker infestation? No. They're mentioned in the original Brujah clanbook - the first book for second edition. They predate the Sabbat clans, as a *concept*. But they were statted in DSOtBH. The Chronicle I was in had rumours of one in it, and we played before Dirty Secrets came out. Yes, I am of sufficient vintage that I got Dirty Secrets thinking it was a Sabbat sourcebook. Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Nov 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 04:20
|
|
|
I could see the ur-rear end in a top hat Rich Guy throwing himself into a volcano and wiping out his own concept specifically to deny anyone else the chance to become an rear end in a top hat Rich Guy in the future. Going out on top forever, you know?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 04:23
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:True Brujah clan bane seems a poor fit for Dio’s extremely poor impulse control. I heard there's one otherwise terrible vampire movie where they try this on Dracula and he just counts them all in an instant Rain Man style. What about the Pillar Men?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 07:21
|
|
|
TBF, every Discipline will look lovely next to pre-Requeim/V5 Celerity, aka “I’m a just break the action economy over my knee.”Ghost Leviathan posted:I heard there's one otherwise terrible vampire movie where they try this on Dracula and he just counts them all in an instant Rain Man style. There’s a character in the lore called The Stone Man, an ancient Caitiff methuselah said to have invented multiple Disciplines, who might be a Pillar Men reference, but I’m not sure. (TBH, JoJo wasn’t known that well outside of Japan even in most weeb circles at the time most Vampire stuff was written, so I kind of doubt it.) Otherwise, probably Gangrel or Tzimisce, to reflect the shapeshifting. I’d like to see more “historical” vampires in the lore, people who weren’t in fiction but whose corpses were targeted as vampires during various vampire panics, like Arnold Paole or Mercy Brown. I once put Arnold Paole in a Requiem game I ran as a Gangrel elder. Gatto Grigio fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Nov 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 09:30
|
|
|
The end of Battle Tendency is a fair look at what 10 dots of Protean would look like, so yeah. Gangrel seems to fit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 09:35
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:TBF, every Discipline will look lovely next to pre-Requeim/V5 Celerity, aka “I’m a just break the action economy over my knee.” Every generation game designers need to relearn that the action economy is the most powerful thing in any system.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 11:32
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:I heard there's one otherwise terrible vampire movie where they try this on Dracula and he just counts them all in an instant Rain Man style. Okay, so in 2000 the movie Dracula 2000 came out, starring Gerard Butler as Dracula/Judas Iscariot, Christopher Plummer as Van Helsing who has been using the captive Dracula's blood to prolong his life, as well as Omar Epps and Jeri Ryan. It ends with Gerard Dracula on an upside-down neon cross, surrounded by sparks, on fire, hanging off the side of a building, coming to peace with his conflict with God so he can finally die. It turns out he didn't finally die, so that they could make a sequel, Dracula 2000 Ascension, where some scientists retrieve his beef jerky corpse to study. Of course, that means strapping him to a board in an empty abandoned pool in some gross old gym. The scientists have a number of clever plans to contain Dracula once he inevitably breaks free, based on the usual folklore. When he first starts advancing slowly, someone rips open a bag of rice and throws it at him, which he is compelled to count, but he has super senses and super speed so he just does it in like two seconds. This is probably the best part of the movie since it's the only thing anyone ever remembers about it. There's another sequel, Legacy, where IIRC Casey Novak from Law & Order sleepwalks through the role of being a former bride of Dracula who is mad they finally succeeded in killing Dracula in the last movie. Even though it's set in the present of 2005 a lot of it takes place in a thriving medieval castle. From what I recall (it's been ~15 years since I saw these) the first two are kind of fun dumb movies, but Legacy was just boring-bad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
citybeatnik posted:Weren't they first brought up in DSotBH? The same place where Vissitude is claimed to be a Lovecraftian/Clive Barker infestation? The True Brujah were first mentioned in a sidebar in Clanbook Brujah (1992), where a woman claimed to be True Brujah to a crowd of Regular Brujah; when they started getting rowdy, she disappeared using a form of Celerity so powerful that the narrator thought she had actually stopped time. They were written up in full in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand (1994). Given the dates of publication, it seems pretty unlikely that the Trujah were intended to be a Dio homage when they were first introduced, unless one of the writers on those books was reading JJBO in Japanese during the writing process.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 14:39
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:The Stone Man, an ancient Caitiff methuselah The Time of Thinblood suggested that he might have just been a *very* prolific diablorist that started off as a thinblood, but I'm not sure how you square the circle with the established lore. But then the dude created Kineticism so why not just go buck wild.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 14:58
|
|
|
That Old Tree posted:Okay, so in 2000 the movie Dracula 2000 came out, starring Gerard Butler as Dracula/Judas Iscariot, Christopher Plummer as Van Helsing who has been using the captive Dracula's blood to prolong his life, as well as Omar Epps and Jeri Ryan. It ends with Gerard Dracula on an upside-down neon cross, surrounded by sparks, on fire, hanging off the side of a building, coming to peace with his conflict with God so he can finally die. Dracula 2000 is one of my favorite dumb late 90's horror movies. It's such a delightful time capsule of the late 90's and the plot is goofy as hell but man is it fun. I have never seen the sequels, but I think Rutger Hauer is I the the third one? Also apparently Batboy of Weekly World News got a write up in the 1e Nosferatu clanbook. 1e Masquerade is such wonderful cheese(covered in racism)
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 16:32
|
|
|
joylessdivision posted:Also apparently Batboy of Weekly World News got a write up in the 1e Nosferatu clanbook. 1e Masquerade is such wonderful cheese(covered in racism) Or is it racism covered in cheese? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
Kavak posted:Or is it racism covered in cheese? White queso only
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
joylessdivision posted:Dracula 2000 is one of my favorite dumb late 90's horror movies. It's such a delightful time capsule of the late 90's and the plot is goofy as hell but man is it fun. I have never seen the sequels, but I think Rutger Hauer is I the the third one? Mostly what I remember about Dracula 2000 is Tower Records. That clanbook also gave us EL DIABLO VERDE, so it's cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 16:47
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Mostly what I remember about Dracula 2000 is Tower Records.  It's a Virgin Megastore. This is burned into my memory as the least subtle thing they could do with the lead, because she at one point is working there wearing a shirt that just says "Virgin".I think Stigmata had the Tower records scene. Kavak posted:Or is it racism covered in cheese? Asterite34 posted:White queso only 
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 17:05
|
|
|
joylessdivision posted:
Good catch. I just remembered a record store the size of a Wal-Mart with a lot of neon and filled in the blanks without checking.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
That Old Tree posted:Okay, so in 2000 the movie Dracula 2000 came out, starring Gerard Butler as Dracula/Judas Iscariot, Christopher Plummer as Van Helsing who has been using the captive Dracula's blood to prolong his life, as well as Omar Epps and Jeri Ryan. It ends with Gerard Dracula on an upside-down neon cross, surrounded by sparks, on fire, hanging off the side of a building, coming to peace with his conflict with God so he can finally die. That all sounds rad, honestly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
All I remember from Dracula 2000 is one of the hunters trying to drive away vampire Omar Epps with a crucifix and he’s all… “Sorry, Jack - I’m an atheist!” 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:All I remember from Dracula 2000 is one of the hunters trying to drive away vampire Omar Epps with a crucifix and he’s all… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goqj9oWFhMw
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:I'm pretty sure True Brujah were literally invented to be Dio Brando.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 01:52
|
|
|
Dio really doesn’t fit as the influence for the Trujah because… A: As mentioned before, JoJo (at least SDC) wasn’t translated to English at the time the clan was introduced to V:tM, and JoJo in general wasn’t that well know outside of Japan even to foreign anime fans. (Phantom Blood Dio was closer to a Tzimisce, anyway)  B: The True Brujah clan flaw is the inverse of the Brujah hot temper. They’re so cold and detached that they take penalties to Humanity rolls because of their inability to feel emotions. Dio is many things but he’s not a Vulcan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
 I know Polanski sucks, but I really do need to see that film.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:All I remember from Dracula 2000 is one of the hunters trying to drive away vampire Omar Epps with a crucifix and he’s all… The follow up is better, though. "That's okay, God loves you anyway." Then he pops a spike out of the crucifix and stabs him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 05:02
|
|
|
Last chance to sign up for TG Secret Santa. Please don't shame the forum by letting the number of Santas in the world dwindle even further!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 16:35
|
|
|
Gatto Grigio posted:Dio really doesn’t fit as the influence for the Trujah because… When did true brujah become a thing? Because for the longest time literally the only thing the west knew about jjba was that there was a vampire named Dio who stopped time and threw steamrollers at people. Dio's not emotionless but he definitely tries to act like it, it's just when he's backed into a corner and he realizes that he can't just walk all over someone and he starts throwing tantrums. So it'd at least fit if true brujah aren't actually any different from brujah and just try to act like they're above the having a temper. Though I doubt that's where any inspiration came from since, if anything, inspiration would have come from the capcom jojo meme of a vampire who can stop time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 18:55
|
|
|
FirstAidKite posted:When did true brujah become a thing? Because for the longest time literally the only thing the west knew about jjba was that there was a vampire named Dio who stopped time and threw steamrollers at people. They were first mentioned in the first Brujah book, so about 1992. They were more properly codified in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, which was in 1994.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
While I don’t particularly believe the true brujah were a Dio reference, it’s worth noting that the OVA adaptation of Stardust Crusaders, which is what the fighting game adapts and is the source of a lot of the early JoJo memes, ran from 1993 to 1994. depending on how much weeaboo influence there was in WW at the time I would not be entirely surprised if at least a couple people involved had either heard or watched a fansub at the right time to influence the solidification of True Brujah’s discipline from “super celerity” to “time bullshit”
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 19:32
|
|
|
Dio is actually based on the Zoroastrian Daeva myths, Daeva is pronounced Dio/Deo in multiple south Asian languages and translated the same way into Thai.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:Dio is actually based on the Zoroastrian Daeva myths, Daeva is pronounced Dio/Deo in multiple south Asian languages and translated the same way into Thai. Also Ronnie James Dio and Marlon Brando and Roy Batty from Bladerunner.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
We know weebs infiltrated White Wolf, since pretty much everything they did about asia was super anime (Wraith excepted, it was mostly driven by Grabowski's hatred of Qin Shi Huang).
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 20:52
|
|