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I'm going to wait for reviews
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Nov 23, 2021 00:13
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| # ? May 24, 2024 19:26 |
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Reviews are calling it the Dark Souls of Zeldalikes
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Nov 23, 2021 00:19
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Vookatos posted:I'm playing through Bloodborne right now and there's one thing that boggles my mind: why the gently caress have they dropped Estus system? You can farm them pretty quickly. I think at that point in the game I would farm the three executioners near the witch's abode lamp you get after defeating the wtich of hemwick. you can warp to the lamp kill the three executioners near the lamp and the three villagers on the way. the executioners have a good chance of dropping multiple vials. You'll also get 9,000+ blood crystals, so you can warp back to hunter's dream and buy more vials. repeat until you have enough vials
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Nov 23, 2021 00:35
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Volte posted:How would Estus even work in Bloodborne, given that there's no resting/bonfire mechanic to replenish them? Having healing items being drops means you can keep playing and healing as long as there are enemies to kill that drop them. It works in your favour in all cases except when you're stuck on a boss for an extended period of time and even then it's not hard to farm up several runs worth of vials. I don't even remember running out of blood vials during Orphan of Kos which took me literally days to finally beat. Have a vial 'weapon' that can draw blood from enemies, including bosses and their minions, to gradually create a full vial. It's still grinding but there's a slightly more focused process? This might have allowed for different healing items like in DS2! (Everyone's favourite game).
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Nov 23, 2021 01:59
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Volte posted:How would Estus even work in Bloodborne, given that there's no resting/bonfire mechanic to replenish them? Having healing items being drops means you can keep playing and healing as long as there are enemies to kill that drop them. It works in your favour in all cases except when you're stuck on a boss for an extended period of time and even then it's not hard to farm up several runs worth of vials. I don't even remember running out of blood vials during Orphan of Kos which took me literally days to finally beat. especially given the way it breaks the flow when coming against hard bosses - rallying back health is a good mechanic, but a lot of bosses have attacks where you basically have to be at full or you'll die from it, so you can't rely on rallying. even if you only use a handful each attempt, if you're not getting those heals back, you will run out eventually.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:17
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Volte posted:How would Estus even work in Bloodborne, given that there's no resting/bonfire mechanic to replenish them? Having healing items being drops means you can keep playing and healing as long as there are enemies to kill that drop them. It works in your favour in all cases except when you're stuck on a boss for an extended period of time and even then it's not hard to farm up several runs worth of vials. I don't even remember running out of blood vials during Orphan of Kos which took me literally days to finally beat. Basically the way elixirs in Nioh work- you get a certain amount back when you rest/die, regardless of how big your stock is, and then you get more, up to max, from storage. The implementation there is slightly weirder in practice, but "blood vials + estus" is something that's been done, and it works pretty well. And I certainly ran out of vials at points- it's pretty easy in the early game when you don't have a big stock, but even when you do 20 vials per run is a lot.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:44
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I think that's one of my biggest complaints about Sekiro. Why does the cost of Spirit Emblems go up as you get further in the game? It's not communicated at all in the game and does absolutely nothing but drag the pacing down.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:58
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I guess maybe in the initial bit of my first playthrough, when I was poking my nose into every corner and getting smashed by things for doing so, I farmed some blood vials once or twice. Bullets too, since those early stages didn't have enough echoes to buy multiple full stocks with the leftovers from leveling. It was such a temporary, early game, only-on-the-first-playthrough problem that it never jumped up as a major annoyance. I'd say if your problem with bosses is that you consistently run out of healing then you're trying to fight a war of attrition against a souls boss and that tends to not go well outside of (original) Demon's. Then again people criticized health gems in Dark2 for "making the game too easy" so maybe I'm the weirdo. 
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Nov 23, 2021 02:59
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Blaziken386 posted:i dont know if you recall, but dark souls 1 had a system where you would randomly get an estus restock when you or someone on your same server cluster killed certain enemies. The difference between "starting at the max every time and getting one or two back occasionally" and "starting at the max and getting one or back occasionally because you went out and grinded" should be obvious, yeah? DS3 is the one that sometimes gives you a bonus estus for killing enemies. DS1 has a similar system that gives you liquid humanity, and another unrelated system that gives you bonus estus when another player kindles the bonfire you lit last.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:11
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Thundercracker posted:I think that's one of my biggest complaints about Sekiro. Why does the cost of Spirit Emblems go up as you get further in the game? It's not communicated at all in the game and does absolutely nothing but drag the pacing down. I think blood viles also go up in bloodborne. Whenever I replay these games I always farm a bit neae the start so I can buy a bunch of vials/emblems
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Nov 23, 2021 03:20
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Mailer posted:I'd say if your problem with bosses is that you consistently run out of healing then you're trying to fight a war of attrition against a souls boss and that tends to not go well outside of (original) Demon's. Sure, but where does really trying to win end and war of attrition begin? Unless you're getting completely blown up you wouldn't stop healing because you spent ten vials. I don't have a problem with health gems but it feels like a prototype of DS3. If you had a higher initial amount of heals you'd have less need for consumables.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:22
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I'm glad we can all agree that the best From Soft game is Dark Souls 3.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:27
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Dark Souls 3 is the least From Soft game to me.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:29
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Inzombiac posted:I'm glad we can all agree that the best From Soft game is Dark Souls 3. In so many ways Dark Souls 3 is the absolute best game they've made, the absolute best execution of the Dark Souls formula to date, which I actually think is kind of a shame, because it's also so incredibly boring.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:56
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I was just goofin' but I've played through DS3 about eight times and maybe twice for DS 1 and 2. 3 has just the right flow for me and a much more reasonable magic system. I'm super excited about Elden, obvs, and what excites me most is being able to go full archery. Well, Iron Pineapple says that's the impression he got and he played for about 30 hours.
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Nov 23, 2021 04:05
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Healing from rallying should be what gets you more blood vials.
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Nov 23, 2021 05:30
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elden ring
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Nov 23, 2021 05:49
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Brandfarlig posted:Sure, but where does really trying to win end and war of attrition begin? Unless you're getting completely blown up you wouldn't stop healing because you spent ten vials. You can't really pin down an exact point for that, but at least for my part I've never fought an early (or not early, but early is where the problem is) boss where I felt like exactly 20 vials worth of healing is the breakpoint for a win. Don't get me wrong - I'm firmly on Team Estus - but farming bullets/vials gets brought up as more of a bugbear than it deserves given how briefly the problem affects you. Hence why I also don't understand the flak gems got in DS2. They could have had you start with more estus, made you swig while moving (like DS3), and removed gems from the game and I wouldn't even notice it. Speaking of Estus, probably the one thing I hate about ER is that the split flasks are returning. That always felt like a weird mechanism, especially when
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Nov 23, 2021 06:12
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Mailer posted:Then again people criticized health gems in Dark2 for "making the game too easy" so maybe I'm the weirdo. I think the healing gems themselves weren't really an issue. However, being infinitely buyable very early on and you can cart around 99 of them definitely changed the "tension" of boss fights. From/Miyazaki doesn't seem to see an issue with the baseline premise, since Sekiro's healing gourd + healing pellets is identical to DS2's estus + gem system, except that you can only carry 3 pellets with you at a time. Still, kind of felt like they overdid it with making it so that there's not a merchant that sells an infinite number of pellets. So early on when you have 2-3 gourd chugs and only a handful of pellets things can be pretty rough. But I guess I do favor DS3's estus system best out of all the healing systems. You get a fair number of starting chugs and you build up a solid buffer of healing between the extra shards and bone dusts. 15 drinks is maybe a few too many for a real master of the game, but it feels fair enough to have a few extra as a "mistake buffer." If they actually make FP abilities worth it in Elden Ring, then that'd actually make the tension of the two flask types interesting, too. Dabir posted:Healing from rallying should be what gets you more blood vials. I'd prefer it if visceral attacks in Bloodborne automatically restored 1 bullet, honestly.
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Nov 23, 2021 06:35
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The solution to the flask split is the same as in DS3. Get fp regen in some way and only run healing. It's not great.
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Nov 23, 2021 07:33
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Tolth posted:There's at least two, or three/four if you count the bell. What the! Then what was the Discourse all about?
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Nov 23, 2021 09:27
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The learning curve in Bloodborne gotta be the highest in all the Souls games. The initial area is tough and I spent more time on Gascoigne and Blood-Starved Beast than almost any other bosses in the series. This is compounded by the fact that the run back for both bosses is pretty long, you gotta farm for blood vials, and the consumables that would help with Blood-Starved Beast (fire paper, blood cocktail, insight to summer that NPC) are easily depleted. It's such a mental block knowing that each attempt feels like you're going backwards as your stock is being depleted. Once you get past that, the difficulty curve really flattens out and there are better places to replenish consumables, etc.
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Nov 23, 2021 10:42
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Volte posted:How would Estus even work in Bloodborne, given that there's no resting/bonfire mechanic to replenish them? Having healing items being drops means you can keep playing and healing as long as there are enemies to kill that drop them. It works in your favour in all cases except when you're stuck on a boss for an extended period of time and even then it's not hard to farm up several runs worth of vials. I don't even remember running out of blood vials during Orphan of Kos which took me literally days to finally beat. Just make the player sit at lamps? It's not hard to farm them, far from it, but I can't see why a system that was nearly (or maybe even completely) PERFECT was substituted for that. I'm less annoyed and more baffled that we went back to Demon's style of healing. If they wanted you to heal more from taking your health back, fine, I do it. I've beaten the game completely, I'm not that bad. However, in that case, wouldn't it be better to lessen the max amount of vials so that this particular gimmick would be more apparent? The only reason I can see is building tension because it's supposed to be a horror game, but Souls games are pretty tense anyway, since even with 20 Estus something can fall on you and kill you instantly if you're not careful.
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Nov 23, 2021 12:54
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Non-replenishing consumables has been a garbage game mechanic since Final Fantasy 1 and remains so to various degrees through the FromSoft games. "You get X attempts on easy mode, then it gets harder!" Estus was the best addition they ever made, and hopefully they apply that same logic across the rest of the items.
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Nov 23, 2021 13:37
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They have, apparently, at least in the form of eternal throwing urns - via the crafting mechanic, you use urns to firebombs/sleep bombs/etc. But when you use one, the urn reassembles itself in your inventory, empty, ready to be used for crafting again.
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Nov 23, 2021 14:45
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Vookatos posted:Just make the player sit at lamps? Volte fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Nov 23, 2021 |
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Nov 23, 2021 15:13
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Grayshift posted:They have, apparently, at least in the form of eternal throwing urns - via the crafting mechanic, you use urns to firebombs/sleep bombs/etc. But when you use one, the urn reassembles itself in your inventory, empty, ready to be used for crafting again. So it's not actually eternal, it's just an obscured limit on the number of throwables you can have at any point in time (Not saying it's a bad concept, but anything that needs consumables to craft and (I think) has to be crafted manually every time you run out isn't eternal)
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Nov 23, 2021 15:24
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Volte posted:Bloodborne is not a Souls game or even strictly a Fromsoft game so saying "why did they change this mechanic from this other game I like that was co-developed by the same company" does not make one bit of sense. Actually, asking why they changed a mechanic that works well (back) to one that doesn't work well makes a lot of sense. I don't see how the distinction between "Souls game" and "not a Souls game" plays any part in that. Is Demon's Souls a "Souls game"? Sekiro is definitely "not a Souls game", yet it still uses the Estus mechanic.
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Nov 23, 2021 15:25
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Sure, they could have decided to use the Estus mechanic like Elden Ring does. It's not that it's not a Souls game therefore no Estus. I'm just saying they didn't "change" anything since it's a standalone game with its own mechanics and rules. They didn't make a huge departure from the previous games in the series because there are no previous games in the series. Expecting all Fromsoft games from now on to use various Dark Souls mechanics is just a flawed expectation. I always thought that Bloodborne felt more like a spiritual successor to Demon's Souls anyway, like Dark Souls and Bloodborne are two forks off the same starting point.
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Nov 23, 2021 15:30
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It's really lame Elden Ring isn't out right now.
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Nov 23, 2021 15:37
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Volte posted:Sure, they could have decided to use the Estus mechanic like Elden Ring does. It's not that it's not a Souls game therefore no Estus. I'm just saying they didn't "change" anything since it's a standalone game with its own mechanics and rules. They didn't make a huge departure from the previous games in the series because there are no previous games in the series. Expecting all Fromsoft games from now on to use various Dark Souls mechanics is just a flawed expectation. I also think we shouldn't be allowed to compare Dark Souls 3 to Dark Souls 2, as it is clearly 50% more Dark Souls and therefore not comparable.
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Nov 23, 2021 15:44
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I hope in Dark Souls 4 every time you die the bonfire gets weaker and weaker until eventually it doesn’t restore any estus at all and you have to find a new one
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Nov 23, 2021 15:54
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I'm sad they never added Bonfire Mimics.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:01
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I am stoked for Elden Ring, but I hope there's a team at FROM that is working on an even more hardcore game than Demon's. I love figuring out my loadout before embarking on an adventure, and I miss that from Demon's.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:03
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anothergod posted:I am stoked for Elden Ring, but I hope there's a team at FROM that is working on an even more hardcore game than Demon's. I love figuring out my loadout before embarking on an adventure, and I miss that from Demon's. I love DeS but I have basically never configured my loadout at all depending on where I'm going except for maybe having some poison cures. You find a decent armor setup and a weapon you like and that's good enough for everything.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:27
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Brandfarlig posted:I love DeS but I have basically never configured my loadout at all depending on where I'm going except for maybe having some poison cures. You find a decent armor setup and a weapon you like and that's good enough for everything. Really? I remember the enemies in different areas having pretty massive resistances to certain weapon attributes, like on the level of Vagrant Story enemies.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:33
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The only time I put my big sword away in DeS was to punch those rolling skeletons
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Nov 23, 2021 16:36
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hatty posted:The only time I put my big sword away in DeS was to punch those rolling skeletons This is the only real exception I can think of. I typically pick weapons that have a thrust attack so that deals with the miners in world 2(?). Having a ranged attack is also a good idea of course.
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Nov 23, 2021 17:01
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I think it was pierce weapons for 2. Blunt weapons for 4. Otherwise, use whatever. Oh and magic wrecks everything of course
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Nov 23, 2021 17:03
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I mean, you *can* skill/effort through everything, but like... the game is a lot easier when you switch your loadout per zone. It reminds me of Mega Man where you can get the right weapon for each level/boss or you can just get your favorite and roll with it.
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Nov 23, 2021 17:04
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