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edit: wait what the gently caress thread is this no let's talk about cartoons. Rewatching King of the Hill, early Boomhauer has a Quagmire edge to him, stealing a used body cast to get a sponge bath. pixaal fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 12:08
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A "national" insert here, check out this short series of episodes: https://www.netflix.com/it-en/title/81304528 (how does Netflix handle regional links? it's it-en, I hope it converts to a proper USA link) It's a short series written by Zerocalcare, a notorious Italian cartoonist - mostly, notorious because he'd fit in goon culture (especially C-SPAM), which is something peculiar over here, and is something I think can easily cross borders because he projects an extremely strong neurotic millennial energy. It's based on an almost true personal bittersweet story (more bitter than sweet actually), but YMMV depending on how much the story resonates. Try watching the original dub since this guy, for stylistic reasons, wanted to dub every character himself and I don't think other dubs convey the same energy not hearing his tone/cadence, but once again, YMMV. Pretty short too so you'll manage to get if this is something you like in like half a hour. What you see there is more or less a real person as he, as he got to the apex of his success, still drives a '95 car, lives in his same apartment and still takes part in foreign relief activism (he's the author of https://www.amazon.it/Kobane-Calling-Greetings-Northern-English-ebook/dp/B084H3YY9V) Char fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 13:35
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sliami posted:there's a difference between a somebody and a corporation corporations have been people since obama ya boomer
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Nov 19, 2021 14:43
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:In non-animation, but still cartoons for adult news, I just learned that the complete Megg Mogg and Owl Crisis Zone story is now available for purchase and I wanted to share that: https://www.fantagraphics.com/collections/megg-mogg-owl/products/crisis-zone its actually somewhat relevant to this thread a lot of people read crisis zone when it was originally published as a daily serial on instagram. it wasn't supposed to balloon to book length, it started as a lark, but over the course of months it just kept going and became sort of a thesis statement on the whole MMO universe of themes and characters when it came time to turn it into a book... who would buy that, when the whole thing is on instagram for free? so simon expanded it into a 'directors cut' with new panels and pages of commentary wedged in the back. just the author explaining what they were thinking and how they felt when they were drawing each sequence of panels tucked away in the commentary there is the revelation that an actual MMO cartoon was very close to being made! like, there was a hollywood treatment, script doctoring, a script read, test animation, everything! simon HATED it. when hollywood was done with it, it was just mangled and lifeless and so, so far from what makes MMO punchy and good. for example, megg was a activist witch who talked about marching against the man at salem in the 1600s. gently caress that noise. simon eviscerated the thing for being hacky and awful, and killed the entire project. walked away from guaranteed hollywood money for the sake of artistic integrity. it makes me think about what a disaster the Achewood cartoon was shaping up to be, so absolutely the right decision to shoot that baby in the crib
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Nov 19, 2021 15:09
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I literally cannot imagine something like MM&O getting turned into a cartoon without it being sanitised to all hell. The whole point is how hosed up they all are in their own unique ways. Take that away that toxic share-house druggie foundation and you just have a bunch of talking animals living together, like a furry F.R.I.E.N.D.S. episode. Werewolf Jones is deffo Ross, though. EDIT: Owl is Chandler. Owl is more Chandler than Chandler. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 15:47
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The characters are utter trainwrecks who make the Always Sunny crew seem well put together, if any aspect of their lives seems even remotely proactive and altruistic then it is a total colossal failure. Megg as an activist, gently caress me.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:59
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Char posted:A "national" insert here, check out this short series of episodes: I've heard comparisons to Bojack Horseman (and it's been noted that Zerocalcare's noted it as an influence himself too), how much of the comparison is worthy?
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Nov 20, 2021 10:47
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Pachylad posted:I've heard comparisons to Bojack Horseman (and it's been noted that Zerocalcare's noted it as an influence himself too), how much of the comparison is worthy? Well, there are big differences and big similarities. For instance - it's an approach to storytelling that wouldn't work in live action, it needs to be conveyed through an abstract layer of visuals; it's touching themes that can pretty much resonate only with adult spectators; it doesn't really pull punches in showing relatable vulnerabilities. It's different because it's way more optimistic, less cynical, less... crude, I'd say, and more romanticized. I personally don't think it's too romanticized but there's a different cultural point of view that has to be considered. Also what I defined "relatable vulnerabilities" can cross borders, but are extremely relatable for me, an Italian millennial who had very similar issues compared to what's presented in the show, I don't know how "extremely" relatable they are to an American millennial. Also, it deliberately lacks a broad marketability - even more so than Bojack Horseman, in my opinion.
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Nov 20, 2021 13:24
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I literally cannot imagine something like MM&O getting turned into a cartoon without it being sanitised to all hell. I feel like Adult Swim during the 2005 to 2009 era could have probably pulled it off, would have probably ended up similar in tone to something like Drinky Crow or Lucy Daughter of The Devil, or maybe the early seasons for Superjail, Metalocalypse, or Squidbillies As for the Achewood pilot/pitch reel, I think that one was mostly made by Onstead's direct input which makes it odd how flat and dull it ends up feeling, to the point where I wonder if he intentionally sabotaged it, cause doing a pitch reel for an Achewood cartoon should be easy, you just fill it up with a bunch of the comic's more short and punchy bits(basically it needed a lot more Lie Bot, Vlad, and Todd bits and a lot less on Roast Beef being depressed or Philippe being a cute kid) and maybe some teasing for The Great Outdoor Fight
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Nov 20, 2021 17:33
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Megg Mogg and Owl actually had an entire arc that transposed the cast to the USA specifically in 2020, was pretty wild. But yeah, I can see an American studio making a complete hash of the concept and trying to idealise the characters when that is the absolute opposite of what they are. There's a hard to help Hollywood tendency of having to glamourise everything, there's a reason that 'arty movies' have a reputation of starring poor dirtbags, because they're the people that never get to be the focus of mainstream American culture. Even Bojack Horseman is about wealthy celebrities.
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Nov 20, 2021 17:43
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Asema posted:They've actually started posting a lot of diversity reports when it comes to things that they are changing, and they can pretty much be found here: Also worth noting that Greg "Cosby Suite" Street still works at Riot, and they actively put his name forward in promotions for Arcane.
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Nov 20, 2021 18:04
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drrockso20 posted:I feel like Adult Swim during the 2005 to 2009 era could have probably pulled it off, would have probably ended up similar in tone to something like Drinky Crow or Lucy Daughter of The Devil, or maybe the early seasons for Superjail, Metalocalypse, or Squidbillies I wish they hadn't tried adapting Maakies.
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Nov 20, 2021 19:21
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I would watch three seasons of Lyle running a weed Taco stand
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Nov 20, 2021 19:39
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Megg Mogg and Owl actually had an entire arc that transposed the cast to the USA specifically in 2020, was pretty wild. But yeah, I can see an American studio making a complete hash of the concept and trying to idealise the characters when that is the absolute opposite of what they are. MMO generically takes place in ameristrasia now, its one of those fuzzy things that generally mirrors the author's life (he moved from australia to seattle) (and he had a child!!!)
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Nov 20, 2021 20:19
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Does he also leave his children trapped in a bin with a brick on top like Werewolf Jones?
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Nov 20, 2021 22:00
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Does he also leave his children trapped in a bin with a brick on top like Werewolf Jones? I don't think so, I mean I don't know the guy personally, but from what little I am aware of he seems to be living a pretty well adjusted life with his wife and kid.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:11
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Data Graham posted:I wish they hadn't tried adapting Maakies. I thought Drinky Crow came out fine, it looked great visually and was funny enough for an Adult Swim show of the era
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Nov 20, 2021 22:21
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Does he also leave his children trapped in a bin with a brick on top like Werewolf Jones? look sometimes you just can't find a babysitter okay?!
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Nov 21, 2021 03:38
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drrockso20 posted:I thought Drinky Crow came out fine, it looked great visually and was funny enough for an Adult Swim show of the era I suppose. It felt like a completely different thing to me, comedy-wise. Though really maybe what I disliked was trying to adapt that crazy detailed ink art style using CGI and 3D ships and stuff, it felt sort of ... disrespectful to the source material's intricacy in a way.
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Nov 21, 2021 04:31
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Each new episode of Arcane manages to top the previous. I’m savoring it, just got to episode 7, and I feel pretty comfortable saying this show is Spider-Verse tier good. I can’t ever remember the last time a show hit on all cylinders like this for me. It’s just doing more clever and interesting this with visual storytelling than any other action cartoon I can think of, while shifting wildly from dingy drug dens and brothels to the pristine science academies of Piltover. If the show was “merely” the most impressive animated series currently streaming I’d still be impressed, but I am genuinely disarmed by the writing. Silcho, in particular, is an incredibly robust villain, and the council political intrigue stuff just wouldn’t have captured my attention in other shows but here you get that incredibly drawn sex/magic sequence and it’s like… what? Is this cartoon treating me like an adult? Is it not spelling everything out for me, but actually allowing me to use media literacy to look for symbolism? Good god, what year is it?
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Nov 23, 2021 05:51
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Re: Arcane episode seven -- there's an upper city and a lower city, which seem to be physically on top of one another, but passage between them seems to be achieved via horizontal bridges? Or have I got that wrong? Also, episode seven We're meant to understand that the cops shot all those protestors, right? (Still only seen the first seven episodes, so bear that in mind when you're replying.) Bust Rodd posted:Is this cartoon treating me like an adult? Is it not spelling everything out for me, but actually allowing me to use media literacy to look for symbolism? I mean, that's a fairly low bar that a lot of animated shows pass though, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
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Nov 23, 2021 06:24
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Piltover and Zaun are built over a natural canal. Zaun itself has stuff at ground level, but it ultimately has been sunk down into chasms and huge old mines over time even as Piltover built upwards to the sky. The bridge is basically connecting the bottom level of Piltover with the top level of Zaun.
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Nov 23, 2021 06:32
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Open Source Idiom posted:I mean, that's a fairly low bar that a lot of animated shows pass though, unless I'm misunderstanding your point. Really? Off the top of my head, I’m thinking this, Bojack Horseman… uhhh yeah, I mean there are lots of cartoons for adults these days, in that they have violence and boobs and swearing, but not a lot of cartoons actually treat the audience as more than large children who stay up late eating candy for dinner. For example, I don’t think Tuca & Bertie treats its audience like adults, because the show is essentially for adults who act and dress like anxious toddlers (not a judgement, that just very clearly seems to be who the show is aimed at, at least the first season) I watch a lot of anime, which is also cool and action packed, but anime almost by default is pretty infantilising because “explaining da rules” is like a big cultural component of those programs. I don’t watch anime without powers or magic or demons though, because slice of life stuff is… just a soap opera? The Harley Quinn show or The Venture Bros are both shows with clever jokes and funny gags, but neither of those shows requires you to be “smart” it just requires you to have been alive during the time period all their references are from. Any adult swim comedy since… well basically since Harvey Birdman or Mission Hill hasn’t really asked that much of its audience intellectually, these shows just got sillier and sillier and sillier (a good thing, adults should be silly), but having a show with real drama and stakes on top of better action animation than any cartoon I’ve ever seen, even ones dedicated to their own action, it’s a rare treasure.
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Nov 23, 2021 13:01
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Arcane is Anime
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Nov 23, 2021 13:32
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No, that’s very dumb. It’s dessin anime’
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Nov 23, 2021 13:37
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Most live-action 'grown-up' TV is pretty much on the same level as having the writing level of a show for kids, just they're allowed to have guns and/or swears.
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Nov 23, 2021 13:53
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And I'd argue that Arcane doesn't really pass the bar of notably adult or complex, in the way that something like, say, Anomalisa, or Waltz With Bashir, or The Congress does. That's not to say that Arcane isn't adult or complex or whatever at all, but it's not on some next level thoughtful animation for adults thing that's challenging or materially interested in its own status as capital-A-Art or whatever. That said, ranking stories like this is pretty dumb beyond a certain kind of point. But if Arcane passes the bar, then Castlevania passes, Harley Quinn, IMO, passes and maybe even something like The Spine Of Night. Arcane is aiming to be complex and novelistic in construction (individual episodes are chapterised rather than episodic, for instance, and it's constructed with some deal of thought) but a lot of its character work is, IMO, a bit simplistic. And most of the show is ultimately about arranging things so that characters can have ridiculous action stunt fights, or can walk purposefully while Inagine Dragons digitally cameos as themselves. A lot of it's very pleasurable (the Imagine Dragons cameo was loving hilarious, and in a just world it's going to be loving infamous) but it's largely not anything more than a mostly beautiful animated show for young adults and people who enjoy that kind of thing. I enjoy that kind of thing though, so it's not like there's any loss to me for watching it. It's also hard to separate the show from inherently commercial motivations that drive the series. Riot want that Disney money, and they're pretty open about it -- "the IP of a generation" -- and that bothers me. That, and the series has some tremendously uncomfortable ablist elements, but, you know, it is what it is.
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Nov 23, 2021 14:29
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Open Source Idiom posted:And I'd argue that Arcane doesn't really pass the bar of notably adult or complex, in the way that something like, say, Anomalisa, or Waltz With Bashir, or The Congress does. Unlike a lot of the Internet, I actually enjoy (even current) RWBY, so it's not the end of the world, but it feels very similar.
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Nov 23, 2021 14:33
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I don’t think a show needs to be complicated or verbose to be well written, and whatever shortcomings you’re finding in the writing (I’m not) the voice acting and direction in this show is bar none the best in Netflix’s animated roster. Castlevania is more like a show that seems designed around elaborate set piece fights. It was a beautiful show but every character has the emotional depth of a cup of soup. The fights in Arcane have an emotional depth and weight to them, like the season 7 fights between lifelong anime rivals. Everyone’s designs, their tattoos and scars, their fighting styles, their gear… I just feel like more work has gone into this show than I’m used to. The main characters get two totally different designs, that by itself is pretty intense and impressive! The editing, the squiggly animations, the really excellent depictions of Jynx’s deterioration mentally and emotionally… I don’t know what shows you guys are watching where this isn’t impressing the poo poo out of you, but it’s absolutely blowing me away. Also feels weird to call out Riot for trying to make money on their popular IP, like, wtf else are they supposed to do with it? Why are they held to a different standard than DC or Disney?
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Nov 23, 2021 14:42
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JazzFlight posted:Arcane is very pretty and has some of the best animation I've ever seen, but the actual dialogue and plot is on-par with RWBY. I definitely think Arcane is much better than RWBY, speaking as someone who has kept up with RWBY a fair bit. Arcane feels much better paced, has a much clearer idea of what it's doing in terms of narrative and theme, and didn't do anything as daft as the way RWBY treated Penny. (Although Sky is close).
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Nov 23, 2021 14:55
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Bust Rodd posted:Also feels weird to call out Riot for trying to make money on their popular IP, like, wtf else are they supposed to do with it? Why are they held to a different standard than DC or Disney? I'm not holding them to a different standard, I'm just talking about Riot because they made the show we're currently talking about instead of just randomly changing the subject to talk about Warner Brothers or Disney. Also this is kinda classic whataboutism tbh.
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Nov 23, 2021 14:56
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We were comparing Arcane to shows by Disney and DC, felt germane to me, not trying to snipe.
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Nov 23, 2021 15:00
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Bust Rodd posted:For example, I don’t think Tuca & Bertie treats its audience like adults, because the show is essentially for adults who act and dress like anxious toddlers (not a judgement, that just very clearly seems to be who the show is aimed at, at least the first season) quote:anime almost by default is pretty infantilising because “explaining da rules” is like a big cultural component of those programs. I don’t watch anime without powers or magic or demons though, because slice of life stuff is… just a soap opera? 
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Nov 23, 2021 17:38
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"explaining the rules" means world building. They enjoy stories where the writer takes a lot of time and effort into building the world over the characters.
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Nov 23, 2021 17:46
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But that seems more like a limitation of the creator’s abilities more than a stylistic choice, given how more recent IPs just engage in worldbuilding much more fluidly and organically, or just skip it in favor of fully fleshing out the characters (which has the side effect of effective world building). You can get densely packed, fully realized and lived in worlds without the characters literally turning to the screen and giving you a power point presentation like a quest giver in a video game.
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Nov 23, 2021 17:50
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Bust Rodd posted:But that seems more like a limitation of the creator’s abilities more than a stylistic choice, given how more recent IPs just engage in worldbuilding much more fluidly and organically, or just skip it in favor of fully fleshing out the characters (which has the side effect of effective world building). All I can think of with this conversation is the kinda poo poo from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46IEp7_mpdw
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Nov 23, 2021 18:24
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XboxPants posted:All I can think of with this conversation is the kinda poo poo from this video: thank you for this video, i laughed extremely hard
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Nov 23, 2021 19:03
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JazzFlight posted:but the actual dialogue and plot is on-par with RWBY. Literal nonsense.
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Nov 23, 2021 19:34
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Literal nonsense.
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Nov 23, 2021 19:38
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JazzFlight posted:Whenever Heimerdinger speaks it’s pretty much just Professor Ozpin. Actually this is a pretty good example. Take Ozpin's much lauded speech on fear. It's a silly, meandering bit that goes on so long that it starts to feel like a parody of inspirational speeches. Nothing Heimerdinger says, even with him being the dullest, least developed character on the show, is as fanfic level as that.
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Nov 23, 2021 19:53
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