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Yeah thanks thread. Very helpful advice! e: oh noooo page snipe
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Nov 20, 2021 18:07
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Nov 20, 2021 20:57
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VelociBacon posted:Yeah thanks thread. Very helpful advice! 
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Nov 21, 2021 01:13
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Congratulations to VelociBacon and Arquinsiel! Also want to add to "thank you for the tips" pile! I received an offer, negotiated with my BATNA in mind, and signed a contract with a drat good salary. Might even be able to afford a whole week of vacation in 2022.
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Nov 21, 2021 03:15
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VelociBacon posted:Yeah thanks thread. Very helpful advice!  Omne posted:As a hiring manager, I try to bring the same level of energy to every interview I do. An interview is a sales pitch as much as it is an evaluation of the candidate. Good hiring managers know this. Top talent is always scarce and in high demand. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 14:09
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Day in my life: today, had an interviewer reschedule for next week 5 minutes prior due to "technical issues." Separately, received two rejections. Friends, family, this forum: keep on truckin!! Reality: embrace the void of agony KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 23:54
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Any guidance on trying to nudge a hiring manager along when you're nearing the end of the process and fairly confident you'll get an offer? I'm relocating and have interviewed with 2 orgs and it's looking very good for Org B and pretty good in my mind for Org A. Org A would be my preference, but I'd be quite happy with Org B as well. Org B have started to pick the pace up considerably and are checking references, while Org A is slowly moving along having missed a self-imposed deadline last week to get back to me with next steps (but did reach out to let me know they couldn't get it done). Never had to deal with this before, but is it worth it to let Org A know that things are happening quickly now and they'll need to speed up? No offer yet from Org B - should I wait until I actually get an offer to let Org A know?
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Nov 23, 2021 02:11
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I've had success getting companies to speed up with an offer in-hand. Something like "I already have a reasonable offer from another company, but I don't want to accept because I'm still interested in your role. Please arrange an offer within this many days so I can make a decision."
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Nov 23, 2021 02:14
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Yeah I would let them know. A recruiter I worked with would line up a bunch of interviews at once so he could use an offer with one to speed up the others.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:17
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Only do that if you're actually happy with the other offer, though. If it's more along the lines of you really want this job but you're just antsy and wish they'd hurry them up, you probably don't want to risk your "I have another offer so please get me yours ASAP" being met with "sorry we're just not that far in the process so we'll remove you from consideration, good luck!"
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Nov 23, 2021 02:20
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Appreciate the advice and it all makes perfect sense. Think it might be best to wait to actually get the offer from Org B before reaching out to Org A. I would be very happy with either offer so I wouldn't be too heartbroken if Org A pulled away after letting them know. This is like the first time I've ever been properly desirable in the job market so I'm a bit out of my depth!
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Nov 23, 2021 02:36
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MagicCube posted:Any guidance on trying to nudge a hiring manager along when you're nearing the end of the process and fairly confident you'll get an offer?
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Nov 23, 2021 15:14
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Edit: meant to post in negotiations thread.
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Nov 26, 2021 15:59
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I got a job offer, and in the provisional offer the only info I got was for their benefits, which I don’t need and are expensive as gently caress. Thinking of coming back to them requesting $2-3 more per hour, in the absence of benefits, but I’m not sure they pay for benefits at all? I already had to send like five questions back about the offer like mandatory OT, shift expectations, PTO, etc.
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Nov 26, 2021 16:14
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life is killing me posted:I got a job offer, and in the provisional offer the only info I got was for their benefits, which I don’t need and are expensive as gently caress. Thinking of coming back to them requesting $2-3 more per hour, in the absence of benefits, but I’m not sure they pay for benefits at all? You don’t need benefits during a pandemic?
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Nov 26, 2021 16:34
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On his spouse's insurance, I presume. Small company, I also presume, OP? It sounds like this company either has no idea what they're doing (are they super small?) or is shady. Either way I'd proceed with extreme caution and wouldn't feel bad in the slightest to walk away. That's based only on the little bit of info you provided though.
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Nov 26, 2021 16:40
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Well, the dud interview I had last week is fading from memory and I've secured an interview within a different division with my same employer. The reason I'm wanting to leave my division is intense dysfunction and low morale. The employer is large enough that it's possible things are better ran in the other division. Is there a tactful way to inquire about their culture without trash talking the division I'm in now?
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Nov 26, 2021 17:04
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This is an answer you're going to find irritatingly unhelpful, but, harsh truths: it doesn't matter because your boss will block you from ever transferring. Nothing to lose from going to the interview I guess (unless your boss is the vindictive sort that will make you suffer for daring to try to get away). The direct answer to your question is pretty much no; even if there were a perfectly diplomatic way to phrase the question, there's no way to get that information from the people that will be interviewing you, they'll just lie. Keep the pedal to the metal on seeking outside opportunities.
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Nov 26, 2021 17:07
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Well, the dud interview I had last week is fading from memory and I've secured an interview within a different division with my same employer. Eric the Mauve posted:This is an answer you're going to find irritatingly unhelpful, but, harsh truths: it doesn't matter because your boss will block you from ever transferring. Blocking his transfer may or may not be true in Leon's case. To state it as a "hard truth" and not "something to be aware of and prepare for" is unhelpful and often untrue imo. I also disagree you can't diplomatically ask about it. When you're doing an internal transfer you can usually be more candid (still don't trash talk and don't seem like you're leaving to avoid problems rather than to helping to solve them). Note that its a small world at many companies so expect your current boss to find out about other internal interviews. How to best deal with this kinda depends on the boss and your anticipated reaction. Engaging them earlier if theyre a good boss could be helpful. Agree on continue seeking outside opportunities though. I'd try to think of some specific questions that can help you glean the facts you want to know about this other team rather than asking an unspecific question and getting a canned answer. EDIT: To Eric's point, an abusive, lovely boss is in the "you probably wont get internal positions" camp and he's probably right in that case. Same if your team is already understaffed for people in your position. The exception to this is if the new team is working on a newer must-win project/product and you're on a legacy project/product. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 17:24
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Yeah I mean, it's generally true that internal transfers (especially if it's not a promotion) are a bitch because they only happen if the prospective New Boss both (1) has more political capital than Current Boss and also (2) want you enough that he's willing to spend some of it on you, or (3) Current Boss is a rare magical creature that wants to help you develop and is happy to see you move on even though it's a giant pain in the rear end for them. If we assume Current Boss is a shithead the odds drop to near zero in my experience. What I'm saying is that pulling off an internal transfer is so unlikely that investing much energy in pursuing it, rather than investing that energy in pursuing a new employer, is -EV. But sure, you got an interview and every interview is at minimum a very valuable opportunity to exercise your interviewing skills and hopefully impress someone, so, go for it. Just don't expect much.
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Nov 26, 2021 17:31
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Internal move are very common in every place I've ever worked. Sometimes they aren't the best career moves, sure, but I find it weird you find them so uncommon.
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Nov 26, 2021 18:36
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I find it weird likewise! I have never worked at a massive international gigacorp though and I'm not a computer toucher so there might be pretty big differences there. But I know a lot of people who have gotten attempts at transferring away from a bad boss cockblocked by said bad boss.
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Nov 26, 2021 18:39
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CarForumPoster posted:Blocking his transfer may or may not be true in Leon's case. To state it as a "hard truth" and not "something to be aware of and prepare for" is unhelpful and often untrue imo.
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Nov 26, 2021 23:42
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FWIW I have worked at two #1s and one #3 by market cap in their industry and in all cases I saw frequent internal moves. For defense companies internal moves are the basis of continuity of employment. Programs staff up and down in a matter of weeks without ~*that*~ much firing or quitting on the larger multi-program sites. I have also seen people get blocked for internal transfers and moves that result in promotions for reasons that were unfair in those same companies. Often those unfair circumstances results in a person leaving. At least once they happened in order to make that person leave.
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Nov 27, 2021 01:07
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Eric the Mauve posted:On his spouse's insurance, I presume. Small company, I also presume, OP? National company but yeah somewhat (relatively) small since aviation is a small world anyway, and they have more than one location all over the country. Same company with which I had a short interview last week and said they were sending an offer. I was dubious because some reviews said they were promised offers but never ended up getting one. Lots of reviews say the CEO is an idiot and an rear end in a top hat who has no idea how to run an airline and the management is apparently equally bad for the most part. So not sure if that means as a whole they have no idea what they are doing, or are shady. I sent back a few questions about it, haven’t heard back yet but it’s a holiday weekend. I’m still willing to walk away, but also accepting the job isn’t off the table (I’d be going in with open eyes and just accepting it for what it is, which is a stepping stone for me to get some recent experience to use in another job application down the line). I went in too low on my expected pay and that’s what I got offered, lesson learned there. Mostly it’s just the only offer or even hint of interest I’ve heard from any company I’ve applied to other than LockMart, who is still “reviewing” my resume, and with whom I don’t expect to get a job offer so early on in my career change, and I need to start working. But I am playing it fairly wisely I believe, I’m not jumping on the offer, trying to make sure it’s right for me from more than just the it’s a job perspective.
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Nov 27, 2021 02:49
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how the hell do you put down a reference from your current job if your current job isn't aware that you're looking for new options? the best possible reference i can put down is my immediate boss, and in circumstances where he was aware that i was looking he'd be a stellar reference. but if i dont want him contacted, do i just not list anyone from my current position?
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Nov 27, 2021 06:58
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You can instruct the company not to contact your current job. I have never had anyone actually ask for a reference that was an actual person, let alone contact them. Most places just want the phone number for HR to verify you work there. This is not terribly suspicious on it's own because places like banks will do this when they need to verify income. If they really need to verify your current employment and cant contact the company in any way they'll typically ask for pay stubs and W2s.
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Nov 27, 2021 14:28
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Don't ever give a prospective employer a W2 or a pay stub
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Nov 27, 2021 15:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:This is an answer you're going to find irritatingly unhelpful, but, harsh truths: it doesn't matter because your boss will block you from ever transferring. Very interesting. Unsure if this changes things, but it's government work and the other job is in a completely different division of a large department with 15,000+ employees. Civil service regulations mean my boss is not responsible for promotions, interviews, hiring, and I've never seen anyone fired in my 6 years. They firewall all personnel decisions away from management and into HR to avoid favoritism etc. The other department is in a different city, so there's not a lot of communication between the two, as far as I know.
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Nov 27, 2021 17:36
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Well. Uh. Yeah. That changes everything.
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Nov 27, 2021 17:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:Don't ever give a prospective employer a W2 or a pay stub This is true. I should clarify that: you've accepted an offer and can/should redact any info other than names/addresses of yourself and the employer you're trying to prove employment with. I had to do this for my current job after they hosed up and told my new employer the date my my last paystub instead of my last employment date. My last paystub date way almost a year later after a bonus was paid out.
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Nov 27, 2021 18:18
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Very interesting. Lmao
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Nov 28, 2021 02:19
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I was in tech incident/problem management for 14 years before taking a 2 year hiatus. I was a mid-senior level, and am now looking to transition back in at the same, or solidly mid level. Anyone in tech willing to give my resume a read through and provide feedback? HMU up in PMs please and thank you!
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Nov 28, 2021 20:41
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Doom Rooster posted:I was in tech incident/problem management for 14 years before taking a 2 year hiatus. I was a mid-senior level, and am now looking to transition back in at the same, or solidly mid level. Yeah you can PM me.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:36
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If a third-party recruiter is asking for managerial references before I've even had an interview I should probably decline to provide that, right? We spoke over the phone and they had an actual job opportunity and are claiming that they need the references to validate my skills and experience but it seems kind of sketchy to ask for that so early in the process. They don't even have my resume or portfolio yet (it's a design position.) This is for a senior position, if that matters.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:59
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Vogelspinne posted:If a third-party recruiter is asking for managerial references before I've even had an interview I should probably decline to provide that, right? We spoke over the phone and they had an actual job opportunity and are claiming that they need the references to validate my skills and experience but it seems kind of sketchy to ask for that so early in the process. They don't even have my resume or portfolio yet (it's a design position.) This is for a senior position, if that matters. My cynical take is that they want to try to recruit your manager reference for the role.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:07
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Vogelspinne posted:If a third-party recruiter is asking for managerial references before I've even had an interview I should probably decline to provide that, right? We spoke over the phone and they had an actual job opportunity and are claiming that they need the references to validate my skills and experience but it seems kind of sketchy to ask for that so early in the process. They don't even have my resume or portfolio yet (it's a design position.) This is for a senior position, if that matters. Are you in the US? If so, this is very strange. Don’t trust third party recruiters you don’t have a good relationship with already. 99% of outside recruiters are worthless.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:09
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Dik Hz posted:Hella sketchy. Hold your ground unless you're desperate. Can't know if it's actually for that specific role but he definitely just wants the contact info of managers. 
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Dec 1, 2021 01:11
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CarForumPoster posted:Are you in the US? If so, this is very strange. Don’t trust third party recruiters you don’t have a good relationship with already. 99% of outside recruiters are worthless. Yup in the US. Thanks for validating my suspicions y'all, I let them know I would not be able to provide that information this early in the process.
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Dec 1, 2021 02:26
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I had a call with an outside recruiter yesterday who wore a hat during the call. Not like, backwards but fully pulled down so it looked like he was looking down the whole time. At another company I’m interviewing with - after my first interview they sent me an invite for the second interview with the wrong persons name, and yesterday when scheduling my final interview they sent the wrong job description. You all know I’m a payroll person but I spend a solid 10-15% of my week having to audit onboarding data because A: The Business Partner didn’t look at the job description when posting a backfill so a role that should be Remote says Missouri office And then B: The Recruiter puts notes in - saying they’re working remotely from California C: the onboarding team creates an offer letter with one of those two locations but the future employees address is in Arizona. I’ve caught 31 instances of this since September, 3 where hourly people received salaried offer letters, 4 with start dates on holidays, and 11 where the job title doesn’t match the job description. Basically - people are overworked as gently caress.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:30
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