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That is imo one of the hardest scenarios in the entire game. If you get a bad combo of ghosts and locations it's just loving brutal.
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Nov 20, 2021 06:44
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It’s almost impossible to get every ghost in the graveyard. TCU is tough and that might be the toughest one. It also gets easier with more players, which allows you to do more things and handle the boss more easily.
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Nov 20, 2021 06:57
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Yeah that scenario is brutal and heavily subject to randomization making it range from "tough but doable" to "haha gently caress you" and you won't find out which version you are playing until halfway in. It's not a great design. If you are failing 3 scenario's in a row in any campaign though it's probably time to redo your decks and start over as they are very likely just not very good. Or if cardpool is the problem lower the difficulty.
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Nov 20, 2021 13:12
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The Black Stones posted:Man, I kinda realized why I dropped the game the first time I did. I still actually really like it, but I hit the 4th scenario in Circle Undone and absolutely got my poo poo kicked in hard. I didn't win scenario's 2 and 3 and while I didn't win, I didn't feel like I was blown out either. This one just made me feel like I couldn't do anything at all at points. I've taken it as a opportunity to tweak my decks (without the XP change cost, as I'm still new and I don't feel like punishing myself for realizing I took in a sub-optimal build halfway through a scenario) and try again. The last time I actually killed one of the ghosts, but just barely. I really realized at the end how important it was to use the parley ability because it sucked to kill one and then it went "oh, haha it's not dead, try again" What a coincidence, I was bashing my head against this one tonight as well except I was playing it in RtTCU. I really expected they would've toned this one down but... they didn't. There is a new objective which requires you to banish three ghosts, and to be fair I was able to do that twice, I just couldn't cinch the deal afterwards with the extra steps to advance the act. I'm very familiar with the base version and I don't think I'm ready to say this one is that much easier, but it is a noticeably different experience. I thought I was onto a good thing with my decks but the amount of damage dealing required has really ramped up, at least if you want to get the new resolution, which I do. Back to the drawing board!
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Nov 20, 2021 14:41
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When I was doing the campaign with Sefina and Joe last week, I got two ghosts, and only because one of them spawned on the location where it had to be delivered, and the other was the "just talking" ghost.
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Nov 20, 2021 14:52
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Orange Devil posted:If you are failing 3 scenario's in a row in any campaign though it's probably time to redo your decks and start over as they are very likely just not very good. Or if cardpool is the problem lower the difficulty. I think it’s a bit of me not knowing what I needed to prioritize at times and a little bit of small changes needed. I usually didn’t fail by huge amounts. Like, the second scenario I got the silver lodge guy revealed, but was slightly too late in being able to get him to exit the lodge.
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Nov 20, 2021 14:53
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The Black Stones posted:I think it’s a bit of me not knowing what I needed to prioritize at times and a little bit of small changes needed. I usually didn’t fail by huge amounts. Like, the second scenario I got the silver lodge guy revealed, but was slightly too late in being able to get him to exit the lodge. It helps if you remember that a secret society of rich white men can go gently caress themselves. Scenario 2 is so much easier if you go for victory points and not bother saving any of them. The ghost can even help you kill victory points enemies.
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Nov 20, 2021 15:20
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KPC_Mammon posted:It helps if you remember that a secret society of rich white men can go gently caress themselves. Scenario 2 is so much easier if you go for victory points and not bother saving any of them. Oh yeah, I murdered the heck out of a bunch of them but it was only the small fry worth 0 ones. I couldn’t kill the main dude in time, or have him leave. ————— Here’s an question. Can an enemy attack you if it’s already engaged with another investigator? Does it break off its engaged and then just go for you? I drew a spectral watcher card that forced it to attack but it was already engaged with a different investigator. What happens? I don’t see anything in the rule book about enemies breaking off engagement on their own. Also second question: when I change the stat I’m using for a test and want to commit cards. Do I use what the test originally calls for, or what I changed the base stat too? The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 20, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2021 17:03
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The Black Stones posted:Oh yeah, I murdered the heck out of a bunch of them but it was only the small fry worth 0 ones. I couldn’t kill the main dude in time, or have him leave. 1. It just attacks you, but doesn't engage you. Remember that attacking usually causes an enemy to exhaust! There's even some cases where an enemy will attack you no matter where it is on the map. 2. If you're changing the stat you're testing with, you can commit cards with the new stat. For cards like Spectral Razor, you're adding your willpower to your strength, so you can't commit cards that boost your willpower for that test, which is a rule I hate. Let me boost whatever skills I want, even if they aren't relevant!
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Nov 20, 2021 17:56
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LifeLynx posted:2. If you're changing the stat you're testing with, you can commit cards with the new stat. For cards like Spectral Razor, you're adding your willpower to your strength, so you can't commit cards that boost your willpower for that test, which is a rule I hate. Let me boost whatever skills I want, even if they aren't relevant! Oh, so if I replace the stat (I know mystics have a bunch of cards that let me do this) I can then add to the check with either stat for the test now? Or is it one stat only all the time?
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Nov 20, 2021 18:16
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Only the stat you’re actually testing, not the one you’re adding.
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Nov 20, 2021 18:29
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My group ran into a bit of an edge rule situation last time we played. We couldn't find anything conclusive, so we just made a snap ruling at the time. I'm curious if we missed something though, for future reference. We are playing Return to Circle Undone. A player had their character on a space that ended up with a two copies of a treachery attached. I can't remember the name of the card, but it's the one that triggers the location haunt effect if you leave the location and only goes away if there are no investigators on the location at end of turn. The haunt effect on this location was one that would force draws from the encounter deck and triggering it twice in a row was definitely not desirable. The character had previously been run through the Outer God's scenario and had a copy of Pocket Portal in hand. The question was, could they use the portal to exit the location without triggering any haunts. The most obvious answer is no. However, it was complicated by the fact that it doesn't appear that "leave" is a defined keyword and the treachery specifies it only triggers when you leave. The only reference we could find to it being defined was in the context of moving out of a location you are assumed to have left that location. Straightforward enough so far. The problem is that the portal is specifically worded in an odd way. You don't appear to move, you are instead placed on the portal card. While on the portal, you don't actually count as being on a location. So, there's a strong argument you haven't actually technically "left" the location mechanically, therefore no haunts trigger. Arguably, this interpretation means that when you land back in a location you will now count as having moved and the haunts will trigger. However! You weren't in the old location anymore, so both treachery cards were discarded at end of round since there were no investigators on their location. They are no longer in play, so can't trigger on you when you actually complete the move at the start of your next turn. This is what we ended up going with, in part because the card was a reward for completing the side scenario, and also because it seemed an interesting and clever interaction. It will probably never crop up again as a situation, I'm just curious on other interpretations we may have missed.
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Nov 20, 2021 19:29
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Really going to need the exact wording of the encounter card on this one. Pocket Portal indeed seems to be worded specifically such that you going to that "location" does not constitute a move, and I am not familiar with "Leave" being specifically defined anywhere.
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Nov 20, 2021 21:08
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Was oddly difficult to find the card. I don't have the physical card, the collection belongs to one of my friends. For some reason, the campaign cards from the return set aren't on ArkhamDB. Anyhow, tracked it down. The card is Unstable Energies. Forced - When you leave attached location: Resolve each Haunted ability on it. Forced - At the end of the Round: If there are no investigators at attached location, discard Unstable Energies.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:12
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Yeah I don't think the rules are clear for the reasons you outlined and I think your ruling is very reasonable. If it turns out "Leave" is defined somewhere or FFG does it later I wouldn't be surprised if it has to go the other way though.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:01
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You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...
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Nov 21, 2021 00:43
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The standalone cards generate an inordinate amount of questions on the MB Discord because it seems like they don't get as much playtesting as the regular stuff and some of their wordings are a bit looser. I discovered a way to get permanents into your deck using Ezel-zen-rezl from War of the Outer Gods because he turns assets (specifically not 'non-permanent' assets) into swarm cards, so they get flipped and placed under enemies. Permanent cards cannot leave play, but flipping or 'becoming a swarm card' is not 'leaving play' and if it was a whole lot of other weird things start happening. In the game it happened to me in one of the permanents in question was Sophie, which is double-sided. Does 'becoming attached to another card' or 'being a swarm card' stop the card from 'being' Sophie?  
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Nov 21, 2021 02:01
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Also with regards to the portal question, the first bullet point here is the only relevant thing I could find : Since you place your mini-card onto the portal I would say you are no longer 'at' that location and so you have left, but I also agree that it's not cut and dried. edit : further discussions from Discord :  I find that pretty persuasive and I think I'd go with that now. edit 2 : and why not keep editing. I've just managed to beat the RtTCU Wages of Sin after overhauling one of my decks, though I did luck into the parley Heretic (and still only won on the last turn). I think I'm going to have to do another long-winded write-up about this deck (I think it will make it to the end) and I might also combine it with a review of RtTCU because so far it's a marked improvement over the original. The proof will be in the replay, but for now I'm proceeding on to For the Greater Good for the first time ever as enemies of the lodge! Kalko fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 02:13
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Last time I played that scenario we lucked into every ghost starting where it needed to be turned in and it was still the hardest scenario in the entire campaign. I don't trust that the xp rewards are correct if you do the new win condition. It is also possible to defeat all 4 ghosts and get the new win condition if you time it right but the text tells you to record one got away. Considering it was in the most need of revamping I'm not impressed with how return handled it.
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Nov 21, 2021 15:53
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Kalko posted:Also with regards to the portal question, the first bullet point here is the only relevant thing I could find : Huh, that's a very solid comparison that I hadn't considered. It does seem to indicate precedent.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:01
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So I've got the revised core set to play with a friend, it seems like the best bet to expand it if/when it comes to it will be grabbing the rerelease of the dunwich horror stuff early next year and if we happen to play it enough and enjoy it enough that we're desperate for more before that then get one of the more recent expansions before the Antartica one since those'll be the furthest from getting a fancy rerelease all in one box right? Some of the "first time buyers" guides I've looked at have said the latter expansions can be pretty brutal if you haven't been playing and buying the investigator cards along the way cause there's been a bit of power creep, is that accurate?
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Nov 21, 2021 22:23
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I'd say that's a fairly accurate assessment on what to aim for buying currently. I'd say that if you are enjoying the game and want more content you may just consider grabbing the Edge of the Earth player cards anyhow. Won't hurt to get things out of release order. Side scenarios and the standalone starter decks are also solid pickups if you can find them. The starter decks in particular are great additions. For your second point, I guess maybe? Card pool definitely can impact difficulty, no doubt about that. There are investigators and decks that just aren't really viable without access to most of the released card pool. I'd say not to worry too much about it though. A benefit of being coop is that your play group can be as serious or as chill as you like in how you approach the game. You can all play decks with strong meta picks and deep synergies. You can also agree to just all play stupid jank decks. Either way, generally the game lets you keep going regardless of how badly you tank scenarios, which I think is great. A friend and I have been slowly two playering through the return campaigns in release order and we've been doing it ironman style. Every time an investigator dies, they're dead and we can't reselect them. An investigator that survives a campaign gets rolled over to the next one and keeps going. We're not using the taboo list, but we are intentionally not playing meta decks. We've made it to Path to Carcossa, plus a couple of side scenarios. We have perma-killed something like seven investigators so far between us. We're playing on normal difficulty, access to the full card pool and we both have probably put well over a hundred hours into the game. Losing is fine and fun sometimes! Our regular playgroup for the game, in comparison, is a full four players. The other two are no less veteran players than we are. We are currently crushing our way through a blind playthrough of Return to Circle Undone. The difference is that when we play as a group we have a more serious approach towards winning. We don't really net deck, but we definitely spent a lot of time talking synergies and character roles during deck creation. We often have similar discussions when spending XP. We've ended up with four decks built around a group combo of heavily abusing bless tokens, token draw manipulation, auto success options and encounter card denial. It's a very different way to play, both are valid and fun. (In case anyone is curious, the group is made of the following: A heavily bless token abusing Mary, who basically can't die and mulches anything she touches. An all rounder Silas, who also dipped into bless support and anti mythos tech because interacting with game mechanics is for suckers. A very quick and consistent Mandy deck that I believe also has some shroud manipulation. A Jacqueline, who went heavy on chaos bag and token manipulation, which synergizes nicely with all the bless manipulation getting thrown around.)
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Nov 21, 2021 23:02
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So. I have a weird situation come up and google is failing me. I’m playing “For the Greater Good” and the Cell Keeper spawned in the Catacombs, but then one of my investigators drew “Expulsion” which moves the nearest cultist enemy to you, it attacks and you place your key on that enemy. Cell Keeper also has “if you evade Cell Keeper by two or more. Take control of its key” In this case do I get both keys because he grabbed mine? Or do I just get the original one he had and I have to pick mine back up?
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Nov 21, 2021 23:20
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Something similar happened to me last night except it was Nathan Wick and he spawned at the Inner Sanctum early in the game and he got two doom placed on him from a treachery because he was the only cultist in play, which was very unfortunate. But then next turn I pulled Expulsion and he conveniently made his way over to us to get slaughtered. Really fun scenario but I forgot about the new condition on the RtTCU card so I wasted a lot of time having my investigators avoid each other near the end so I didn't unintentionally end the game while I was trying to farm the last bit of VP. As to your question, I would say you definitely don't get two keys but you can choose which of its keys you want to take. And speaking of Cell Keeper, On the Hunt (3) is a really loving good card! KPC_Mammon posted:Last time I played that scenario we lucked into every ghost starting where it needed to be turned in and it was still the hardest scenario in the entire campaign. I know exactly what you mean, but I'm confident this is just another accidental omission since there's already a few other bits requiring errata (though I think only the Wine Cellar connection has officially been errata'd so far since it's kind of glaring). It had to be handled the way it was because the victory display was already being used for the other objective, but it would be very unusual for it to be intended that you don't actually get that VP, to the point where it would be explicitly mentioned (I have a vague recollection that there is another similar situation somewhere in the game).
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Nov 22, 2021 00:45
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Expulsion helped so much because it brought the keeper to me and then Lily was able to smash him with the hammer after Jack was able to evade it to remove the doom from it. That helped get me a key (I did play it as the other key dropped, so good to know I was right). What was even better was Jack was able to reveal Nathan and also got a cultist in the same area. Wasn’t a concern because Lily had the Fan of Tyr spell card where you can move to a revealed location and attack with a +3. Killed the cultist and then Jack is a super dodge tank so I was able to evade Nathan and send him to the victory display right away. I crushed the scenario. It was a good feeling.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:04
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Ok I thought I knew the rules pretty well but I just got blindsided by this during a discussion of some RtTCU stuff : You can only advance the act during a player's turn. I knew advancing was done as a fast action so all this time I assumed it was fine to do it during any player window, but no. And also as a corollary to this, in multiplayer games you can't advance the act and then decide who goes first based on what happens, you have to choose a player to go first and then advance the act. The more you know.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:07
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Kalko posted:Ok I thought I knew the rules pretty well but I just got blindsided by this during a discussion of some RtTCU stuff : What do you mean with the bolded? If you have a window it’s during your turn, no? Are you saying you thought you could do it during a Mythos phase? Also when the investigator phase begins don’t you assign who the first player is and then it’s that way until you hit the next investigation phase again? I need to re-read it again.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:44
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Yeah, I thought you could advance during player windows in like the enemy and upkeep phases. I didn't do it often but it was pretty handy for some things. And yeah, each time you begin an investigation phase you choose who goes first. I just meant you can't advance the act at the beginning of the phase before you've chosen someone to take their turn.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:54
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Ah yeah. I’ve always been playing it that way so good to know I’ve been doing it right.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:57
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Is there a character in the game that can let me role-play as reizen from mob psycho one hundred at the end of season 1 just ignore eldritch problems because I don't know they exist.
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Nov 23, 2021 05:51
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Impermanent posted:Is there a character in the game that can let me role-play as reizen from mob psycho one hundred at the end of season 1 just ignore eldritch problems because I don't know they exist. Uhh Diana Stanley? She's good at ignoring things.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:32
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Okay, I got a question trying to do Union and Disillusion for Circle Undone (Scenario VI). It comes with character fate cards I was told to put under the scenario card. Do I check them and do the information on them right away? Or will it come up during the game? The setup instructions not clear on this at all. Edit: okay, I got this answered myself by just taking a stab and saying the scenario would add them in at one point and that’s what happened. The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 22:53
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Planning on grabbing a Return to... box this weekend. Which out of Dunwich, Carcosa, and Forgotten Age would be more essential. It sounds like Forgotten Age has some problems that the Return fixes, but do the other two boxes contain large fixes like it does?
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Nov 27, 2021 16:37
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They all have good fixes, I would go for the one that has the player cards you like. The main TFA fix was starting the explore deck at five cards and adding a treachery each time you successfully explore, as well as letting you spend the bonus exploration budget after part three to heal trauma.
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Nov 27, 2021 17:02
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If it is purely fixes you want go for Dunwich. TFA has the best fixes but you can very easily apply them yourself to the regular campaign and Carcosa is very solid out of the box.
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Nov 27, 2021 17:19
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Orange Devil posted:If it is purely fixes you want go for Dunwich. TFA has the best fixes but you can very easily apply them yourself to the regular campaign and Carcosa is very solid out of the box.
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Nov 27, 2021 23:49
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Regular Dunwich was a fun time when it came out but looks less good now in retrospect. If you're new to the game though I think it's worth playing it through vanilla. This is because I feel like the Return box does a bunch of clever fixes and adjustments that make the campaign feel very fresh going though Return. Just make very sure when running vanilla that you have someone who can do straight Intellect tests in your team or you will hate your life. If you don't think you'll be playing through the whole campaign multiple times and/or just want the best possible time though, go straight to Return. Also if you've played through some of the later campaigns already it's probably better to go straight to Return or there's a real risk of feeling underwhelmed.
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Nov 28, 2021 00:12
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They’re almost becoming diminishing returns. Dunwich was great, TFA really good, Carcosa just made everything needlessly harder, and Circle Undone has a shitload of typos and such. The Carcosa campaign on its own is pretty well polished so it’s probably the least “needed”
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Nov 28, 2021 00:23
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I got the Circle undone for the tarot cards already. So typos don't really concern me much.
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Nov 28, 2021 01:00
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yeah the tarot thing in circles looks really cool
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Nov 28, 2021 04:13
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