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The Sontarans 
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Nov 28, 2021 20:16
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SiKboy posted:Some bits of this episode are pretty good, but unfortunately everything involving the actual doctor this week is absolute guff. Yeah, I liked the adventures of Yaz, Dan and Jericho and the UNIT stuff was a fun little side-plot, but all the Doctor/Division stuff is crap and promising "exciting" answers to questions that I really don't want to ask and don't think are particularly valid questions to begin with. Until Chibnall forces it to be otherwise I'm going to continue to assume all this bullshit about the Doctor being 10 million+ years old and living thousands of lives pre-Hartnell is just a complete fabrication made up by whoever for whatever reason, and if he does try to make it true I guess I'll just have to wait for RTD to quietly discard all that and pretend it never happened. 
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Nov 28, 2021 20:23
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There were moments of alrightness (Kate Stewart is a wonderful character), but the Timeless Child stuff is increasingly stupid. After all these lifetimes of adventures in time and space, talking about the thrill of adventure, the Doctor would rather have been left at some big portal? I'm trying to imagine any other incarnation having a reaction other than " no" For fun, try to picture the Sixth Doctor listening to the bad Time Lady ramble on and on. The Timeless Child stuff feels like bad fan-fic. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 20:24
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I liked the adventures of Yaz, Dan and Jericho and the UNIT stuff was a fun little side-plot, but all the Doctor/Division stuff is crap and promising "exciting" answers to questions that I really don't want to ask and don't think are particularly valid questions to begin with. Until Chibnall forces it to be otherwise I'm going to continue to assume all this bullshit about the Doctor being 10 million+ years old and living thousands of lives pre-Hartnell is just a complete fabrication made up by whoever for whatever reason, and if he does try to make it true I guess I'll just have to wait for RTD to quietly discard all that and pretend it never happened. Honestly the Yaz, Dan and Jericho stuff (particularly after they hooked up with Joseph Williamson) felt like the pilot for a sci fi channel show with a budget and life expectancy roughly equivalent to The Librarians or Warehouse 13. Would watch. The serpent supreme or whatever his name of was pretty good, even if he reminds me very strongly of Russell Kane/Nick Grimshaw. The energy went right out the room every time head division lady and the doctor started talking again. And its pretty obvious that Chibnell has something planned for the finale where Bel and Jinder will be important, so wanted to introduce them both nice and early, but had no clue what to do with them between episodes 2 and 6 so they have pretty much just been wandering around marking time and breaking up the flow of the stories that were actually going somewhere.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:38
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So given Tectuen said that they caught the Angel that sold out the Doctor anyway, I'm going to assume that Claire got dumped back in the village in 1901 and she's looking after the little girl? Otherwise I'm laughing thinking of Yaz, Dan and Jericho just loving off and leaving the little girl by herself with the logic of,"Well we know she makes it another few decades  "
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Nov 28, 2021 20:40
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So the Doctor worked for the Division with magic unlimited regeneration, then they just decided to delete that ability and turn her into a child that would become the First Doctor for....reasons? Yet she still referred to herself as the Doctor and had a TARDIS shaped like a police box? EDIT: Isn't the Master meant to be showing up at some point in Flux too, iirc? I'm guessing that'll be the cliffhanger for the New Year's Special. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 20:49
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It would still be an awful retcon but at this stage (bargaining) I'd be willing to accept Susan as the Timeless Child just as a way out of this mess.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:53
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If I wanted to retcon the Timeless Child without pretending it doesn't exist, I'd argue that the Doctor's entire life was some sort of timeloop where eventually she becomes the Child, then gets found, becomes the First Doctor, and so on and so forth. I'm gonna laugh hard if that's what Chibnall is doing, but that wouldn't explain why the Fugitive Doctor couldn't possibly remember Jodie's incarnation.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:59
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Four good episodes in a row Jodie's been the Doctor for four years Then chokes in the fifth and regenerates into Peter Davison
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Nov 28, 2021 21:00
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Survivors of the Flux mp4s - click to view.                     Yaz's 1904 outfit rules. I love her hat 
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Nov 28, 2021 22:23
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i honestly don't think even the worst moffat episodes have just exhausted me as much as this does however many years its been since chibnall took over and his only good contribution is still the show just having generally nice visual direction
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Nov 28, 2021 22:30
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So with badguys who are probably associated with The Division showing up with little snake tattoos, what are the odds that this whole thing is all Chibnall setting up to explain why Three had a tattoo? He has form in explaining irrelevant Classic Who minutiae after all.Fair Bear Maiden posted:If I wanted to retcon the Timeless Child without pretending it doesn't exist, I'd argue that the Doctor's entire life was some sort of timeloop where eventually she becomes the Child, then gets found, becomes the First Doctor, and so on and so forth. I'm gonna laugh hard if that's what Chibnall is doing, but that wouldn't explain why the Fugitive Doctor couldn't possibly remember Jodie's incarnation. This is essentially the fanfic scenario I thought of after The Timeless Children too. The Doctor is The Doctor was the most satisfactory thing I could come up with to undo the mess. I also hoped that Tecteun's offer being rejected would mean those memories would be lost/destroyed so it would be left as an open mystery. Unfortunately though it doesn't look like that'll be the case.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:31
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Jerusalem posted:I think somebody even once said they like Delta and the Bannermen once! One of my group for watching random Doctor Who stories on a Thursday night is an award winning (small award, mind) director who among other things writes essays for Criterion Collection releases. He's reviewing them for his patreon as he goes along, and I'm recording the scores. He gave Delta and the Bannermen a higher score than, among others, The Ark in Space, The Invasion, The Web of Fear, The Silurians, Terror of the Zygons, and The Happiness Patrol.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:24
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Well... at least Chibs brought UNIT back. He did disband it because of Brexit right? Those were the days. Too many disparate threads. Who wanted the Sontarans back? When the kid said there might be an army down there I was expecting them or Silurians, lol. Bel and Jinder keep ambling slowly to where the plot needs them, and The Grand Serpent uh.... spent 50 years setting up a Sontaran attack on Earth... to uh... hey, didn't they get blown up in the Crimean war? I guess the Mouri fixed that or something. Thank gently caress Williamson actually got introduced this episode, I was about to scream when he walked through a door on the boat and disappeared! Also I didn't really get why exactly Tecteun didn't want the Doctor around??? Nice to have a bit of Bathurst and uh... Dot Cottan. Though is half of this written for radio? "I prefer to be called.... THE GRAND SERPENT". Thought Tecteun's first appearance had a TARDIssy feeling. Still does, but overgrown and old. Looks like a central console. I am surprised it was Division between Universes rather than Time and Space. They did mention them during this episode so something will come up, who knows? There's a good episode in here if you just cut half of the plotlines I think. Makes me appreciate Village of the Angels more, actually. The gang, and Yaz especially, was the best part. I liked the romp through UNIT and Dot but just cut the Grand Serpent poo poo, seriously. Spend about 2 minutes on Bel seeing Jinder get kidnapped. She gets recalled to Earth, Sontarans invade on their own. e: also, Vinder/Bel are absolutely Doc's parents. Got to be. Quotey fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Nov 29, 2021 |
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Nov 29, 2021 00:50
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Quotey posted:The Grand Serpent uh.... spent 50 years setting up a Sontaran attack on Earth... to uh... hey, didn't they get blown up in the Crimean war? I guess the Mouri fixed that or something. I think the timeline (no pun intended) here is that the Sontarans were informed ahead of time about the Flux and slipped into Earth before the Good Doggies put up their shield, but then got run off by the Doctor in the past and most of them killed by the Lieutenant General, which meant they vowed revenge (because the Sontarans ARE petty potato men) and got involved either via Division or just going straight to the Grand Serpent to set things up so they could return and get their revenge in the 21st Century. Also Kate asked and never got an answer, but she assumed the Grand Serpent wasn't slowboating through the 50 years but taking quick jumps through time to continue his machinations to neuter UNIT. She rather bitterly asked him if it had taken him as long as a "week" for him to do the damage he did.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:19
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Alright, episode seen, episode enjoyed, dunno why people are screaming doom and gloom for the 58th year in a row I mean, besides the obvious reasons, but they're not relevant at the moment
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Nov 29, 2021 01:40
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I went "holy crap" at the watch when it came onscreen because the Master reveal is my I think favourite new series moment, but then I deflated pretty quickly  The Edwardian international adventurers part was great. Needed a ride on a dirigible though.
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Nov 29, 2021 02:23
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MrL_JaKiri posted:One of my group for watching random Doctor Who stories on a Thursday night is an award winning (small award, mind) director who among other things writes essays for Criterion Collection releases. He's reviewing them for his patreon as he goes along, and I'm recording the scores. This is incredible, but I don't think it's fair to call Mr. Capaldi's Oscar a "small award" 
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Nov 29, 2021 02:31
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Jerusalem posted:I think the timeline (no pun intended) here is that the Sontarans were informed ahead of time about the Flux and slipped into Earth before the Good Doggies put up their shield, but then got run off by the Doctor in the past and most of them killed by the Lieutenant General, which meant they vowed revenge (because the Sontarans ARE petty potato men) and got involved either via Division or just going straight to the Grand Serpent to set things up so they could return and get their revenge in the 21st Century. Ah yeah, the Sontarans did know about the Flux. Though Kardanista and Dan uh, time-teleported them all in the Liverpool present (since they were in Crimea at the same time) or maybe it was just a regular teleport. That's fine. The Grand Serpent was there for however long he wants to get written into a UNIT series (could Dot be as good in audio? not sure....). I do think I did enjoy the episode by the way! The Indiana Jonesing was nice, Yaz was great (though I'm annoyed about her only interaction with the Doctor being snippy and no development). The Grand Serpent is entertaining for sure, it was fun to see UNIT stuff. Just a bit unfocused. It sucks that Division parts were kind of hohum but you gotta have em.
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Nov 29, 2021 03:20
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Highly enjoyable. Chibnall is pretty clearly trying to generate as many different Big Finish series as he can possibly manage. At this stage I suspect he plans to retire and write the Doctor's memoirs under the name The Great Big Finish Curator. It's also pretty clear that trying to reassemble the whole story is going to be impossible. The planet called Time and the Temple of Atropos and all that doesn't situate in a way even slightly alongside the Division subplot. I do give big credit for the Doctor being such a disruptive force for Tecteun's little Enlightenment-style imperial control of Space and Time that the Division was essentially forced to cut their losses in one universe and head for another. But the odds that this will all make sense after one more episode are roughly 0%. Hell of a ride, though. OldMemes posted:There were moments of alrightness (Kate Stewart is a wonderful character), but the Timeless Child stuff is increasingly stupid. After all these lifetimes of adventures in time and space, talking about the thrill of adventure, the Doctor would rather have been left at some big portal? I'm trying to imagine any other incarnation having a reaction other than " That's what you got out of that conversation? From my perspective, it was Tecteun saying "I rescued you from that planet and raised you like my own child" and the Doctor saying "How do you know you rescued me? I was waiting next to a wormhole conduit! It's like kidnapping a child who's waiting for the bus and insisting that you saved her from being stranded alone and certain death!" I am unsure whether to praise Chibnall for delivering a clearly anti-imperialist message or condemn him for doing it in a way where the intelligibility depends on having seen The Timeless Child episode, but it's pretty clear what Tecteun represents and the Doctor's refutation of her claims to have essentially been saving that lonely child was on point, even if it's easy to imagine rewriting it in a way that actually lands more clearly and with more force. Great seeing Thirteen getting more chances to be angry, though Chibnall has this bad habit of making her helpless and reliant upon others to save her. One possibility out of all of this: undoing the Flux will presumably scramble the universe in terms of both Time and Space. Chibnall may be gifting RTD with an in-continuity way to essentially ignore continuity, not that RTD ever cared all that much in the first place.
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Nov 29, 2021 03:34
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This felt kind of messy. Obviously I never suspected Chibnall was going to instantly walk back Timeless Children or have had it be a fake-out all along. But having the entire Flux be about the Doctor's evil adoptive mom wanting to... do something makes it all feel kinda small and insular. Like the Division didn't need much explanation, Time Lords interfering in other worlds despite claiming they don't is both something the series has done before and also kinda self-explanatory. And I think the main issue is, I have no idea what the Hell Tecteoun was even trying to do in all this. Like okay she's basically in charge of the space-time-CIA that is The Division, she's willing to sacrifice this universe because there are others, but like, what's the gain? What's all the effort in aid of? Best I can piece together is she wanted the Doctor to come back in the fold but that's a real messy way to do it and if so it's not very well stated/conveyed. I got no sense of her wanting this to happen. And the Doctor once again gets stuck doing nothing while people exposit at her. Good news this time I guess is that this wasn't the finale so she still may yet get to take action, but ugh. And the Doctor spends most of the time arguing about being taken as a child which, sure, viable argument here but it feels just like it's slotted in here because there was no other place it could be. Also I don't get why they spent so much time on the Serpent and him infiltrating the ranks of UNIT so that he might one day... give the OK for the Sontarans to invade? I guess? Did they need permission? I dunno the finale may redeem some things but it was drat sloppy on its own.
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Nov 29, 2021 04:17
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This episode had some ideas that might have been good stories on their own, like an alien time traveling through UNIT's history or the tunnels leading to different time periods, but unfortunately they're just part of this story. And now there's even more to the stupid Timeless Child mystery, which is explained while the Doctor just stands there doing nothing, which Whittaker seems to do a lot. I doubt this is all a fakeout, and probably the specials next year will cover it too. You suck, Chibnall; go away.
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Nov 29, 2021 06:15
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I loving hate how Chibnall just waves away the poo poo without going indepth into it more. Flux just out side of tardis door, about to die? Just wake up on a battlefield 200 years later. Turned into an angel, one of the modern scariest monsters, this is going to have a convulated ingenius plot to get her out o.....oh just teleported out within a minute doing nothing. Absolute bullshit. MST3K in its first series shows 1940 shorts at the start of each episode. Each would show the hero being covered in lava, or falling off the cliff, or being blown up in mid air, and you would assume there was no way they could escape that. Then next episode, you would see an unbelievable spliced in 5 seconds added where they just jumped out of the way just at the last second.
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Nov 29, 2021 06:20
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^^ SHE DIDN'T GET OUT OF THE COCKADOODIE TARDISAction Jacktion posted:This episode had some ideas that might have been good stories on their own, like an alien time traveling through UNIT's history or the tunnels leading to different time periods, but unfortunately they're just part of this story. yep- the issue is those were the GOOD parts of the story! and the rest of the overall story of flux... not as interesting. i'm confident next episode will tie it all up well though, don't you worry. Quotey fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Nov 29, 2021 |
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Nov 29, 2021 08:24
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Prentis is perhaps a little on the nose for an assumed name if they're doing what it looks like they are right?
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Nov 29, 2021 09:49
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Quotey posted:^^ SHE DIDN'T GET OUT OF THE COCKADOODIE TARDIS Hahaha, first thing I thought of too 
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Nov 29, 2021 10:22
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What.... What is happening? Am I just getting old? I was having trouble caring about the story because this season has all just felt so disconnected and like the Doctor doesn't do anything, just gets confused by everything, outsmarted, and jerked around all the time. It feels kind of like the scene a couple episodes ago where the doctor was just suspended in tbe timestream and kept popping in and out of other people's and her own past memories in a disjointed and meaningless fashion has never ended. If only there was some sort of fast-talking, savvy, aloof madman in a box who could swoop in and save the hapless Doctor and her bumbling companions from almost certainly being turned into doom glitter just like trillions of sentient beings and most of the universe, including the Doctor's own mother, just was. Yes, it feels like the Doctor needs to be saved by one of her past selves. Vorgen fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Nov 29, 2021 |
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Nov 29, 2021 12:46
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Vorgen posted:Yes, it feels like the Doctor needs to be saved by one of her past selves. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Jodie ended up being saved by the Fugitive Doctor, which Chibnall seems to envision more as a swashbuckling adventurer than the Jodie incarnation.
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Nov 29, 2021 12:57
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A weird thing in the Chibnall era I've noticed is that he constantly introduces new story elements, themes, imagery, etc. that feel like they should obviously go together or connect to some other existing thing and they just... never do. A few examples:
Voting Floater posted:So with badguys who are probably associated with The Division showing up with little snake tattoos, what are the odds that this whole thing is all Chibnall setting up to explain why Three had a tattoo? This would be very dumb and exactly the kind of thing I could see Chibnall doing.
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Nov 29, 2021 13:49
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J33uk posted:Prentis is perhaps a little on the nose for an assumed name if they're doing what it looks like they are right? Give the script editors some credit. Chibnall wanted his alias to be Pent and then someone calls him Sir Pent as a wink to the audience.
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Nov 29, 2021 14:57
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Can't wait for another finale of the Doctor standing still while the villain walks in a circle around her telling her things about her past
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Nov 29, 2021 15:06
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jisforjosh posted:Give the script editors some credit. Chibnall wanted his alias to be Pent and then someone calls him Sir Pent as a wink to the audience. "Prentis. It's short for Apprentice. After all, a humble founding member of UNIT couldn't possibly go around calling themselves..." *SMASH TO CREDITS*
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Nov 29, 2021 15:10
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Again, this is fun in a way that Chibnall's previous seasons weren't but...oof. It's almost entirely people teleporting in new places, having an exciting incident...then teleporting off somewhere else to something new. It's useful to keep us stringing along, but I can't say I expect a great resolution to all of this.
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Nov 29, 2021 15:35
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I liked Yaz's 1904 fits, and the seer in the Himalayas was good and...yep, that's about all that worked for me. Actually no, that's not fair, all the stuff in 1904 was fun, it was the Doctor's plot that dragged the episode down.
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Nov 29, 2021 15:41
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happyhippy posted:MST3K in its first series shows 1940 shorts at the start of each episode. Each would show the hero being covered in lava, or falling off the cliff, or being blown up in mid air, and you would assume there was no way they could escape that. Quotey posted:^^ SHE DIDN'T GET OUT OF THE COCKADOODIE TARDIS Doctor Who and the Undersea Kingdom 
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Nov 29, 2021 15:42
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On the other hand the Tardis with a tree in it was a great set and should have been Jodie's all along.
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Nov 29, 2021 16:10
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"I'm going to stop you, the Division, those weird skull guys, the Flux, the Grand Serpent and save the universe(s)" Aww yeah, the Doctor is gonna finally kick into action with the plan she's been cooking up for the last 5 episodes and is ready to be proactive in her biggest story- oh wait the skull people arrived and now she's gonna passively wait to do stuff until it's her turn again. Well hopefully she gets her memories back next episode so she can go, wow I did some crazy stuff, now to never mention it again.
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Nov 29, 2021 17:51
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Is this Chris Chibnall's Keys of Marinus? Time will tell.
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Nov 29, 2021 19:01
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lol at people thinking The Timeless Child would get retconned this season. "I don't have time travel, you idiot. Humans are so annoying! Especially him."
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Nov 29, 2021 21:11
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CommonShore posted:On the other hand the Tardis with a tree in it was a great set and should have been Jodie's all along. It's bewildering to me, especially given how overall the visual look of the show under Chibnall has been REALLY good, that every time they do somebody else's console room it looks really good but the Doctor's console room is that weird overly dark version with the cheap looking "crystal" pillars. Speaking of those crystals, I assume the TARDIS picked those to visually mesh with the Doctor building her sonic with scavenged crystals that guy trying to find the alien had in his warehouse, and the further we get away from that first episode and the Stenza (who just completely fell flat as a recurring villainous race) the less sense it makes.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:25
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