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chiasaur11 posted:So, new Kyoukai Senki this week, and, credit where due, they actually addressed one of my complaints. We see the American controlled areas of Japan, and it feels different from the Chinese or Australian sections, with the Americans being on decent terms with the locals. At the same time, we get Brad, the American POV character, meditating on how, even if they don't actively oppress the locals, they're still doing real harm, taking away people's right to self-determination and destroying their culture. It's a surprisingly nuanced bit of writing compared to most of this show, explaining how things work, why the current situation is bad (justifying the actions of the resistance group) and why people would still think that they're doing a good thing. It looks like this episode was written by Misaki Morie instead of Noboru Kimura, who has written every episode so far. Unfortunately he goes back to being the writer next episode
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Nov 16, 2021 14:29
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I'm currently about 2/3 through watching the original Macross for the first time and I know I'm supposed to hate Kaifun, but hurry up and die already, preferably in an undignified manner. Coming from later installments, the original is kind of a weird watch. It's very similar in set-up to the original Gundam so I was hoping for a little more character development regarding Hikaru's move from 'afraid to pull the trigger' to 'ace pilot death machine' but they just kinda glossed over that. You soon realize it's a very different show though and it's good at what it does. I like what they did with the contrasting characters of Minmay and Misa and it feels somewhat ahead of its time in how it shows up its magic pixy dream girl for somehow having even less emotional depth than the Zentradi. (I was really proud of Hikaru for hanging up on her that one time) Before they delved more into the worldbuilding, the Zentradi come off like typical evil for the sake of evil villains, and their plans didn't really seem to make sense. Once they established that they're basically giant elementary schoolers deprived of culture and bred only for war, they became a lot more believable and I ended up liking them a lot more. Them not knowing what a movie was was probably one of the funniest moments in the series.
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Nov 17, 2021 07:09
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Moderately warm take - Megaton-class Musashi routinely has better animation, better-choreographed action, a greater sense of style, fun, and adventure, and a more engaging cast of characters than Kyoukai Senki. Once you get past the regrettable artistic decisions (the odd-looking, poorly-composited character designs and the hard disconnect between the 2D and 3D elements), it's genuinely fun as an unapologetically campy, old-school super robot show. Even the video game elements just feel like a modernised version of, say, GaoGaiGar's slowly-assembling monster-fighting toybox - the genre has always been very overtly merchandise-driven.
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Nov 17, 2021 16:52
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Speaking of Macross, tickets are now on sale for Macross Plus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SfP42SUoyA
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Nov 17, 2021 16:53
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at this point i am content having dropped every seasonal mecha except Garanndoll
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Nov 17, 2021 17:05
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I keep buying Valkyries every few months, this bad?
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Nov 17, 2021 23:46
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One thing in retrospect that will never cease to amaze me is how badly Harmony Gold hosed up doing a Robotech movie back in the 80's when literally all they had to do was take Do You Remember Love, add an English dub and do maybe a couple very minor content edits Rather than the nonsense they did end up making, sure according to Wikipedia there apparently were "political issues" that prevented DYRL from being licensed but I do wonder how much that was actual insurmountable problems and how much was it just Harmony Gold and Cannon Pictures being cheapskates
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Nov 18, 2021 00:17
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Do You Remember Love by all appearances genuinely has some kind of severe rights problem - When Big West and Harmony Gold came to their new agreement that finally dropped the Macross blockade, DYRL alone is specifically excluded from it
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Nov 18, 2021 02:32
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Seemlar posted:Do You Remember Love by all appearances genuinely has some kind of severe rights problem - When Big West and Harmony Gold came to their new agreement that finally dropped the Macross blockade, DYRL alone is specifically excluded from it Goddamnit. I'd pay a pretty hefty amount of money to be able to see that movie in a theater but NO, HG has to have the spirit of a miscellaneous-liquid-filled dumpster.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:51
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Queadlunn posted:Goddamnit. I'd pay a pretty hefty amount of money to be able to see that movie in a theater but NO, HG has to have the spirit of a miscellaneous-liquid-filled dumpster. In this case I think the problem must be on the Japanese side of things
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Nov 18, 2021 03:53
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Darth Walrus posted:Moderately warm take - Megaton-class Musashi routinely has better animation, better-choreographed action, a greater sense of style, fun, and adventure, and a more engaging cast of characters than Kyoukai Senki. Once you get past the regrettable artistic decisions (the odd-looking, poorly-composited character designs and the hard disconnect between the 2D and 3D elements), it's genuinely fun as an unapologetically campy, old-school super robot show. Even the video game elements just feel like a modernised version of, say, GaoGaiGar's slowly-assembling monster-fighting toybox - the genre has always been very overtly merchandise-driven. I'm kind of torn, because I'll give Megaton Musashi a better main cast than Kyoukai Senki (Yamato's not terribly interesting, but you compare him to Amou, he's amazing.), but I dropped it three or four episodes in, while I managed to keep slogging on Kyoukai Senki, and that's not just out of interest in seeing hand-drawn mechs. I mean, don't get me wrong. You compare the mech fights, Kyoukai Senki may be dull most of the time (although last episode stepped it up there like it did everywhere else. Looking up the crew, Ryoki Kamitsubo apparently both directed and did storyboards for that one, so maybe he gets the credit.) but the fights take place in the world, and flow into and out of the episode 'properly'. Meanwhile, Megaton Musashi has the mech fights be completely disconnected from the rest of the show in the episodes I watched. The switchover to CG is part of it, but it's also the nature of the fights, all built around super moves from a menu in functionally turn based combat rather than back and forth movement. It's not like no-one on the show knows what a fight is, either. The first episode's hand drawn fight was fine, but the CG ones? Terrible. Actually, that might hit on the big issue. Disconnect. Kyoukai Senki is mostly bad, but it's the same kind of show all through, even when it manages to have good bits. Meanwhile, Megaton Musashi goes from dramatic to comedic without understanding how to manage the two tones. It's not like Patlabor where you have clear dramatic stakes in some episodes and comedic setups in others, or G Gundam with its consistent tone combining disparate elements, or like Iron Blooded Orphans where the lighter moments exist to give some human weight to the tragedies, or even something like Chainsaw Man where the mood can pivot on a dime from broad farce to surreal terror. It's just not knowing what the gently caress it wants to do, with high drama being followed by dumb comedy without concluding any emotional setups. Like, we get a big dramatic scene of someone saying how a friend was murdered, leading into the farce of the assassination attempt on the hero going into a love confession, and it doesn't work, because it doesn't realize that these are two different tones. You can try to maintain the tension under the comedy, maintaining the assassinations as a real threat, or you can have the comedy undermine the tension, with the ridiculousness of the assassination attempts making the whole war into a joke, but the show doesn't do either, just shuffling over and doing different things with no concern for a larger whole. And that's the show all over. Trying to build up mystery when it's revealed the answers, trying to go into melodrama without attaching us to the characters who are involved, and generally jumping around without grounding the show.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:57
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drrockso20 posted:In this case I think the problem must be on the Japanese side of things I'm going to guess some music licensing is all messed up, that seems to be a common sticking point.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:40
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Technically DYRL did make it stateside, just not in a way anyone wants to remember. https://leagueofdeadfilms.com/2010/01/31/super-dimension-fortress-macross-do-you-remember-love-aka-macross-in-clash-of-the-bionoids/ I remember renting this as a kid and I'm fairly certain it was before I saw Robotech. And somehow for years I managed to never associate the two as being the same thing. https://youtu.be/JXqqwt0oRmc
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Nov 18, 2021 14:27
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm kind of torn, because I'll give Megaton Musashi a better main cast than Kyoukai Senki (Yamato's not terribly interesting, but you compare him to Amou, he's amazing.), but I dropped it three or four episodes in, while I managed to keep slogging on Kyoukai Senki, and that's not just out of interest in seeing hand-drawn mechs. Honestly, the goofy slapstick assassination attempts seemed to serve a clear purpose - underlining that Arshem personally is a total, disastrous faildaughter who's completely out of step with her people's culture, which is the whole reason why her mother sent her off with the expendable grunts for a low-priority mission in the hope that she's either come back a success or not at all. It's not that the Dracter aren't dangerous (the other assassin we see is quite competent, despite being treated by his superiors as low-rank and disposable), it's that she's not. Hence the whole ironic thing of her finally stepping up to the plate and kicking rear end when she finds a reason to side against the invasion. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 18:44
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Kingtheninja posted:Technically DYRL did make it stateside, just not in a way anyone wants to remember. Fortunately that dub is safely preserved online and even sync'd to the latest Japanese blu-rays for the best possible experience. I love that thing.
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Nov 19, 2021 01:00
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Kingtheninja posted:I remember renting this as a kid and I'm fairly certain it was before I saw Robotech. And somehow for years I managed to never associate the two as being the same thing. Kid me nearly went mad trying to figure out the distinction between Mechwarrior (the video game), Battletech (the Saturday morning cartoon show), Robotech (some other cartoon show??) and Macross (?!?!?!).
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Nov 19, 2021 01:27
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Schwarzwald posted:Kid me nearly went mad trying to figure out the distinction between Mechwarrior (the video game), Battletech (the Saturday morning cartoon show), Robotech (some other cartoon show??) and Macross (?!?!?!). Battletech was the general encompassing name of the franchise and setting as a whole. For some reason, FASA(and the others who picked up the IP to make games) were completely allergic to brand consistency and they didn't name the games Battletech: Mechwarrior or Battletech: Mechcommander, so there was a lot of confusion and a lot of people only ever knew Mechwarrior or Mechcommander and never looked into Battletech beyond that.
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Nov 19, 2021 01:50
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Don't forget the exo squad toy line randomly introducing Robotech toys for added confusion.
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Nov 19, 2021 14:45
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Bunch of Macross stuff coming out today and tomorrow, seen stuff about new Hi-Metal R figures for the VF-0, another VF-1 and a new Destroid. Also news about DX figures being released state-side?!? https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...sh=1423e0f5e1df I really wonder if a big push for Macross is being made with this and the release of Macross Plus. So happy :>
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Nov 19, 2021 18:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9IHkJliRNk I don't know.
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Nov 19, 2021 22:52
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I've caught up on the thread, now I know what's up in mecha town. Doing the good work here, folks. Whenever I watch a space opera, Gundam is always the go-to comparison. Like I'm just about caught up on The Expanse lately, and I'm thinking oh yes, good ol' Char had some times like these. Throwing rocks at Earth and stuff like that, cool space stuff Also, my to-watch list is bigger than could possibly be covered in 100 years. Just reading the thread and seeing somebody dug a thing puts it back in the picture. Say Brain Powered, Orguss 2, L-Gaim, always more stuff for the pile. That Fafner thingy, you name it. Speaking of seasonal anime, it's funny, I remember those anime charts and following a bunch of airing shows. But I haven't done that since at least 2006, I'm always catching up. Even say Lupin, has part 6, I'm on part 4. Airing anime is a young otaku's game. But I'll totally do it sometime.
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Nov 21, 2021 06:15
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A ton of people made the Marco/Char comparison when season 5 was airing, so it's not just you.
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Nov 21, 2021 11:38
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Nice, that is good to know.
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Nov 21, 2021 11:46
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Heavy Metal posted:I've caught up on the thread, now I know what's up in mecha town. Doing the good work here, folks. I'm three episode into L-Gaim right now, and it's an interesting ride. Slow start, lighter tone despite the death and dismemberment, plenty of on-foot action. It's also over 50 episodes long, so it's a bit of a commitment, for good or ill. The bit that's actually a fault is the visuals. Some of the designs are great and almost all of them are interesting, but three episodes in and the animation has dipped below Gundam '79 more than once. Orguss 2, meanwhile, clocks in at a nice breezy 6 episodes, so its easier to recommend despite its flaws (like almost all of the mech fights).
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Nov 21, 2021 13:44
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I got around to watching some more of Macross. (Nebulous spoilers for a 40 year old show ahead) Ep 26 I know the Zentradi don't understand stuff jokes are cheap but I laugh every time. Exedol attempting to sing Minmay's song in particular was hilarious and I love the guy for it. Ep 27 Wow, Tomino would be proud and I'm surprised they went that far. I'd say it was a perfect ending to the series... except it's not? Ep 28 Yeah this is weird and I'm not sure if I like it yet. Exploring the aftermath of the final battle is a concept that would be interesting for a number of series but that last episode would have been a really good ending by itself.
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Nov 21, 2021 17:17
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The post space war I episodes of Macross are my favorite bits of the original show, personally. Not that I dislike what came before by any stretch, and it's still my favorite show in the franchise regardless, but I just love the post war stuff. The one negative thing about them is that Hikaru's arc within the show is basically complete as of episode 27, and the post war stuff just stretches it out in a really melodramatic way that makes him come off as a prick, rather than exploring his relationship with Misa and how he views Minmany now that he's in a relationship in any meaningful way. Other than that I love just about everything else. There's some great humor in there, along with some really sweet moments while the rest of the cast try to establish and settle into a new status quo that won't end up in further Zentradi/Human wars or result in humanity going extinct through one attack again in future.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:16
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Macross was a treat, really enjoyed that show. Haven't watched it since those Animeigo DVDs came out a hundred years ago. Roy Fokker. Lately I was thinking I'll rewatch Do You Remember Love, finish off Macross 7, and finally get around to watching Frontier. Mighty backlog. I hear they've added a bunch of Macross franchise music to Spotify and stuff, that's cool. I see Fire Bomber has a page on there. Gotta love Yoshiki Fukuyama.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:49
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So, Kyoukai Senki seems to have noticed my compliments last episode, and responding by running away from anything that might have been good full speed. Where last episode gave us a more compelling protagonist, some thematic depth, a nice action centerpiece, and a better look at how the world works, this episode gave us... nothing. In theory, a good cast in a mech anime can spend a whole episode without robot fights and make it compelling. I've talked before about how the mech combat was the least interesting part of Orguss 02, but there are plenty of other examples on a smaller scale, whether just a scene or whole episodes. The character drama towards the end of Gunbuster with Noriko meeting her friends and realizing that they've lived whole lives while she was away. Simon, Yoko, and Kamina stumbling into a village where everything is strictly rationed. Roger Smith wondering if his time with Big O even happened. Domon Kasshu trapped in the ruins of Hong Kong with his beloved mentor and archrival. Ohta wandering the streets of Tokyo with amnesia, not knowing if he murdered his closest friends. Tekkadan falling into the middle of a labor dispute with a deadly outcome. Hathaway Noa fighting off a terrorist attack on a plane alongside the Federation officer hunting him down. The entirety of FMP Fumoffu. This season, 86 only has had, like, one big fight so far. But the most relevant here is probably Evangelion 3+1, which spent about an hour with Shinji melting down as Rei learned what it was to be human through interacting with the local community. It would be easy to make that dull as all hell, but Anno and company left it as some of the most compelling parts of the movie. Here... they didn't do that. It's a bunch of scenes rebuilding a village with no tension, no real character development, no thematic connections to the main plot, nothing except a bunch of boring characters doing renovation projects. They don't even have the mech doing laundry. I didn't think they'd manage to lose all of last week's momentum this fast, but Kyoukai Senki has a way of surprising me.
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Nov 23, 2021 12:55
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Hell yeah   That's the good stuff
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Nov 24, 2021 00:43
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tsob posted:The post space war I episodes of Macross are my favorite bits of the original show, personally. Not that I dislike what came before by any stretch, and it's still my favorite show in the franchise regardless, but I just love the post war stuff. The one negative thing about them is that Hikaru's arc within the show is basically complete as of episode 27, and the post war stuff just stretches it out in a really melodramatic way that makes him come off as a prick, rather than exploring his relationship with Misa and how he views Minmany now that he's in a relationship in any meaningful way. Other than that I love just about everything else. There's some great humor in there, along with some really sweet moments while the rest of the cast try to establish and settle into a new status quo that won't end up in further Zentradi/Human wars or result in humanity going extinct through one attack again in future. I wanted to hold out judgement on the epilogue episodes until the end but I've finished the story now and I still have mixed feelings. One the upside, the "ending" was pretty abrupt so it was nice to have some closure on the dangling threads and the epilogue introduces a couple of things that become key story points in later series like the colony ships. On the downside though, it never feels like much more than reheated leftovers. The love triangle stuff in particular, as you mentioned, really drags Hikaru's character down a lot. He goes from confused teenager to willful rear end in a top hat. I went from cheering Hikaru/Minmay at the beginning of the series, to Hikaru/Misa in the middle, and Hikaru/Minmay at the end so Misa can find herself someone better. We get some really good Misa and Claudia moments out of it though so that's nice at least.
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Nov 24, 2021 10:45
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So with Eureka Seven Hi-Evolution 3 finally coming out in Japan I'm compelled to ask: has any mecha franchise ever so totally and thoroughly hosed itself as E7 has?
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Nov 30, 2021 06:22
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VOTOMS
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Nov 30, 2021 06:25
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Gaius Marius posted:VOTOMS I don't know a ton about VOTOMS but I can't imagine it does anything nearly as drastic as E7 continually producing terrible project after terrible project all laser targeted on making GBS threads on the original series that people actually liked as much as possible
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Nov 30, 2021 06:31
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votoms is very 80s mecha anime and they should have left it alone when the 80s ended
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Nov 30, 2021 06:32
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Blockhouse posted:I don't know a ton about VOTOMS but I can't imagine it does anything nearly as drastic as E7 continually producing terrible project after terrible project all laser targeted on making GBS threads on the original series that people actually liked as much as possible VOTOMs had a sequel series that poo poo all over the original ending, and they've done a bunch more OVAs which reduced the protagonist to more and more of a cardboard cutout of himself, but it's nowhere near Eureka Seven, from what I've seen. It's just weaker OVAs following up a well known series. VOTOMs also, unlike Eureka, has one OVA better than the original, so that pretty much disqualifies it.
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Nov 30, 2021 06:43
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Yeah there's "the protagonist gets more boring" or "they ruined the ending" and then there's E7, where the franchise's director stares you right in the face and goes "That thing you liked? It's dogshit" over and over for the past decade plus. Not even metaphorically but like textually every Eureka Seven thing directly tries to destroy everything about the first series to the point where the Hi-Evolution movies finally accomplished it by revealing every series, manga, game, and movie in the franchise was just the delusions of Eureka using a magic box after she accidentally murdered Renton I think it's hard to top that.
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Nov 30, 2021 06:51
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Eureka 7 is pretty deep in that alternate universe hole though. VOTOMS literally takes the good ending where Chirico finally gets some measure of peace, after fighting through literal hell and killing the closest thing to God in the universe. And then says nope. Canonically your girlfriend is dead and you get to keep killing. It also turns his overman powers into literal superpowers which fucks up the tension in the og series.
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Nov 30, 2021 06:56
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Blockhouse posted:Not even metaphorically but like textually every Eureka Seven thing directly tries to destroy everything about the first series to the point where the Hi-Evolution movies finally accomplished it by revealing every series, manga, game, and movie in the franchise was just the delusions of Eureka using a magic box after she accidentally murdered Renton ahahahaha 
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Nov 30, 2021 07:38
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i gave up on the entire franchise halfway through ao. what a loving dogshit show that was.
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Nov 30, 2021 07:57
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Dai Sato why do you hate e7 so much
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Nov 30, 2021 08:10
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