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Shneak posted:lol at people thinking The Timeless Child would get retconned this season. Nobody thought that the Timeless Child would be retconned, but given Chibnall was going to dive deeper into it, there was curiosity on how the reveal would be reframed and whether he'd manage to actually give it depth and make it slot more seamlessly into the show's continuity. So far, not seeing it, but there's always hope.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:34
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:there's always hope. Life as a Doctor Who fan  I've been incredibly down on the Timeless Child as a concept, hell I actively loathe it, but I still hope that Chibnall ends up sticking the landing and makes it something really good/compelling. The Sugar Skull Gang being back is a good sign because so far this season they've been incredibly entertaining every time they show up.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:47
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I've tried watching episode 3 four times now but it keeps rolling off my brain at some point. Harder and harder to try with what comes next not sounding much better.
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Nov 30, 2021 00:43
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Maxwell Lord posted:This felt kind of messy. I got the impression that Tecteun basically wanted to control everything. If we're very lucky, Chibnall will bother to reconnect with the Atropos temple and establish that the Division wanted to replace Time with Fate, giving them total control over events in the universe, and that the Doctor essentially assisted in that plan to beat the Sugar Skulls but then partly betrayed the Division's plan, ensuring free will as a possibility. She ran off with a companion to Earth to hide. That screwed up control, so after fighting the Doctor for a long time, the Division basically opted to write off this universe and move to another, using the Flux to power their trip and wipe out the old universe as a two-fer. The timeline doesn't actually make sense, and I freely admit that I hope Chibnall has some "alternative time" explanation for how Jo Doctor (who appears to remember the Division) became our Doctor because "she got caught and mindwiped and then became One" seems massively implausible. And the Doctor did do something in this one: the instant Tecteun left, she convinced the Ood to give her the information she needed to concoct a plan to save the universe. That is a thing. This Doctor, especially, doesn't do "I will murder you now" sorts of things, but she does do the talky things and she did well this time through. The Sugar Skulls showing up didn't deprive her of her agency so much as replace the threat she was working on beating with another one, and I think she'll have to do something herself to get out of the situation next week (though I do fear they won't kill her for "reasons"). Forktoss posted:A weird thing in the Chibnall era I've noticed is that he constantly introduces new story elements, themes, imagery, etc. that feel like they should obviously go together or connect to some other existing thing and they just... never do. A few examples: I don't disagree with the general point--there's dozens of unresolved threads here and I'm guessing 3-4 will be tied up next week--but a lot of these aren't fair. The Jo Doctor appears, in the absence of a twist, to be a past Doctor incarnation who worked for the Division but won her way clear as the price of taking on the Atropos mission. How you can double pocket-watch someone remains to be explained, if Chibnall bothers. The Master clearly didn't destroy the Time Lords given that the Division, commanded by one of the first Time Lords, seems very much intact. He does appear to have destroyed Gallifrey again, though these days who hasn't? Even the Sontarans came close to it. The Division and the CIA are clearly being distinguished IMO. The Division is Tecteun's baby (now--the hint that someone else ran it in the past is interesting) and likely had plenty of Time Lords involved with it, and they're weird temporal colonizers who want to dictate fate. The CIA doesn't operate on that scale and wants to interfere in events, but not to dominate. The surprise with the Grand Serpent will be if there isn't a relationship to the Master's time as a glowing snake-soul. That wasn't a call-back to the Mara and there's little indication of that here, either. Chibnall did have a fascination with the Eternals/Guardians, but he doesn't seem to have done much to pay that off (Can You Hear Me? the exception), so maybe there's something going on there. But "outside the Universe" in a space station/TARDIS isn't the same as being native to "outside Space and Time", so maybe it was just a fake-out? I'll say this: after lots of dull episodes that had very few ideas, Chibnall is going for broke now. It may be unintelligible, but you can't say it isn't ambitious, just that Chibnall is wasting a lot of potentially good ideas.
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Nov 30, 2021 01:40
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I wonder if the end result (well one of them) will be the Sugar Skull gang left trapped in the now derelict Division HQ, floating eternally between two universes with no means of escape, getting to "rule" over nothing forever. That would seem an appropriate fate. I did like the casual reveal that it was Tectuan who released Swarm in the first place and how that blew up in her face (and blew up her face!). For all that she's supposedly one of the trio of Founders of Time Lord Society alongside Rassilon and Omega, I love that she's very much in the Master mindset of never quite being able to conceive the idea that the people she plans on betraying/manipulating might in turn decide to turn against her as well - at least the Master regularly has the Doctor around to suggest this might happen so he/she can go  as they realize it's inevitably going to happen 
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Nov 30, 2021 01:57
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I liked the adventure with Yaz, Dan and Eustacius in 1904, but they should have spent that time with Joseph Williamson instead of cramming him into the space of about 2 minutes. It's bizarre how much of this serial has been wasted on random subplots that contribute nothing, while so much important stuff is glanced over. Also, that Division room should have been the Tardis design from the start, it's stunning. EDIT: is Tecteun The Other? Bit of a shame she dies in 2 seconds then. Though I'm assuming none of the people killed by the sugar skulls are actually dead. Updog Scully fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 03:23
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Jerusalem posted:Speaking of those crystals, I assume the TARDIS picked those to visually mesh with the Doctor building her sonic with scavenged crystals that guy trying to find the alien had in his warehouse, and the further we get away from that first episode and the Stenza (who just completely fell flat as a recurring villainous race) the less sense it makes. You'll take what you get pal. The alternative was making it out of scavenged teeth.
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Nov 30, 2021 03:42
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Quotey posted:You'll take what you get pal. The alternative was making it out of scavenged teeth. 
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Nov 30, 2021 05:09
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Catching up.. huh, Village of the Angels is legitimately rock solid. Dan continues to be an absolutely dumb as bricks himbo, and I question why he's even there.. STILL!
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Nov 30, 2021 13:27
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"Alright Sheffield, keep your cutlery on" is both a terrible line, and an amazing line. I really like casual banter between the companions like that.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:01
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The tree-in-a-tardis was really pretty and would actually justify the reactions of the randoms that find themselves in the tardis for the first time. Currently their reactions should be a slightly bemused shrug and beginning to think about whether they want to play a skill, mental, physical or mystery game.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:05
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Strom Cuzewon posted:"Alright Sheffield, keep your cutlery on" is both a terrible line, and an amazing line. I really like casual banter between the companions like that. "Dan, are you from Liverpool? Why did you never tell us?"
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Nov 30, 2021 15:17
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Jerusalem posted:I wonder if the end result (well one of them) will be the Sugar Skull gang left trapped in the now derelict Division HQ, floating eternally between two universes with no means of escape, getting to "rule" over nothing forever. That would seem an appropriate fate. Cut to a man in black wearing a dead bird on his head: “I expected no less of you! You whimpering wraiths!” Thinking of it, the Division’s headquarters actually does resemble the Shadow’s station in The Armagaddon Factor. I agree that it remains satisfying to see a manipulative Time Lord leader get her comeuppance. Rassilon gets his best in The End of Time (also featuring a guy with visible skull); arguably, Omega is the best of the three and comes across as tragic both times he appears. Between The Big Bang and the likely end to the Flux storyline, the universe has gotten rebooted twice by the Doctor. Makes me wonder whether the systems destroyed by entropy in Logopolis got put back. (I am aware pursuing that line of thinking is how we ended up with Chibnall!) TinTower posted:"Dan, are you from Liverpool? Why did you never tell us?" Loved that banter; Yaz is still underdeveloped and underused, but so much more central as a companion. I hope she receives more spotlight in the remaining movies. Chibnall has already arranged for her to be eligible for two different Big Finish series, one with Whittaker and one with the 1901 gang.
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Nov 30, 2021 16:22
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Honestly at this point going full Lungbarrow and saying that the Fugitive Doctor threw herself into the Looms and her biodata was recreated into the child First Doctor makes more sense.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:26
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After watching the latest episode of Flux and thinking about it at work...does it seem like there's way too many plot points going on? There's like...seven? Right? A-Plot through G-Plot. For some reason my brain is struggling to make sense of it all and a lot of it I'm just finding I don't even care about.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:22
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That's what happens when you introduce a whole mess of new characters and need for them to do things while there's exposition being delivered.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:23
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Christ, what a mess. And they were doing so well last week. EDIT: I was watching with my housemate who's not seen any Who since Capaldi. He said it was 'extremely boring to watch'. The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 23:02
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TinTower posted:"Dan, are you from Liverpool? Why did you never tell us?" I think I missed the joke or something, I'm assuming commentary about Liverpooligans? I don't know anything about Liverpool besides the kind of disgusting imagery in the name. I kind of don't get the point of making the Doctor be some kid some evil jerk just kidnapped and exploited. I was hoping at least The Doctor would've turned out to be in charge of the Division and it was all some incredibly timey wimey convoluted plot of The Doctor orchestrating their own... something, like, whatever they want the point of all this to be or however they reset it. At first I was excited about the other universes, being between em and such.... but kind of what's the point? Do they got different fundamental physics or rules or something... is mirror style, something wilder, because if not, with how big the universe is how they could write endless new species and stories and places.... when's another universe ever going to be of relevance? it's just more wherever. They could even say the Doctor hadn't been to some chunk of the universe or it was hidden, whatever, functionally doesn't seem that meaningful. Timeline also really confusing, Docs been to the end of the universe, like, wasn't there even some late-late-late stage stuff "after" the end of the universe, when it's just cold iron stars and weird poo poo happening to leftover matter? Where's Rose and humaner 11 I wonder. They in this new popular universe or some other one they ain't messing with? Oh I guess not since they're definitely trying to make a no-doctors-allowed kind of universe clubhouse.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:16
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The_Doctor posted:Christ, what a mess. And they were doing so well last week. That's a good one word criticism. A good Who episode is basically tiny movie, you feel some emotional swings, some things resolved, greater mystery hinted at, maybe they said or did something really clever and charismatic. Flux is like Hello, hello, hello ---> ???????????????????????? ---> ????????????????????????????????????????-----> stay tuned for more ???? until the finale I guess.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:19
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Khanstant posted:That's a good one word criticism. A good Who episode is basically tiny movie, you feel some emotional swings, some things resolved, greater mystery hinted at, maybe they said or did something really clever and charismatic. Flux is like Hello, hello, hello ---> ???????????????????????? I haven't seen ep 5 yet, but the Professor from Village of Angels is a great example of introducing an episode character and making you give an actual poo poo about them Dude was basically STARE BEAM ACTIVATE the entire ep and was wholly rational about it.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:01
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Khanstant posted:I think I missed the joke or something, I'm assuming commentary about Liverpooligans? I don't know anything about Liverpool besides the kind of disgusting imagery in the name. Dan is so hugely enthusiastic about Liverpool that he constantly hijacks people into fake tours of the Liverpool museum. It’s like if you met someone who has a Deathly Hallows tattoo, a Gryffindor scarf they wear everywhere, a pug named Dobby, and calls Donald Trump “He Who Must Not Be Named,” and then ask them “oh have you read those Harry Potter books? I had no idea!” I knew a girl like that and I used to call Harry Potter “Those Henry Parker books you like,” and she would just get red-assed about it.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:03
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It is, of course, true to life. Liverpudlians, Mancunians, and people from Yorkshire can’t go a sentence without telling you where they’re from.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:52
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Infinitum posted:I haven't seen ep 5 yet, but the Professor from Village of Angels is a great example of introducing an episode character and making you give an actual poo poo about them Yeah I liked that guy, wasn't crazy about some of the episode/lore details but like that was the closest to a proper doctor who adventure so far. They also managed to make me okay with dusting the stubborn couple that just don't think they should ever listen to anyone yelling at them in a panic lol. And I knew Dan was from Liverpool, but being from Texas, the big part of USA, the capital country of the Earth-- I guess I didn't think anything of someone mentioning where they were from as unusual.
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Dec 1, 2021 00:58
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So, the whole UNIT thing was a deliberate mess, right? Previously, UNIT wasn't formed until after the events of Web of Fear, but this episode proposes it happened 10? years earlier with a young Corporal Lethbridge-Stewart in the ranks (also, it's pretty impossible to go from corporal to colonel in less than 10 years, if at all; corporal being a soldier rank rather than an officer rank).  Why you do this, Chibnall?
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Dec 1, 2021 02:39
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The_Doctor posted:So, the whole UNIT thing was a deliberate mess, right? In addition to what you said: ain't no way in the world Lethbridge-Stewart's upper-crust, Received Pronunciation-speaking self served even a day as an enlisted man. Not unless he was slumming it "Sergeant Wilson in Dad's Army"-style in the enlisted ranks, and then got a "Major Major Major Major in Catch-22"-style promotion. It's basically one of those things that happens when the person writing the script doesn't know what they're writing about, and doesn't care enough to research it.
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Dec 1, 2021 03:43
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https://twitter.com/TheCyberdevil/status/1465612453555937283?s=20 https://twitter.com/NothingLane/status/1465618075093512196?s=20
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Dec 1, 2021 04:25
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Holy poo poo, that rules. And it was just sitting there at the BFI all these decades?  There's a cupboard somewhere in London that hasn't been opened in 40 years full of untouched Hartnells and Troughtons, I'm convinced.
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Dec 1, 2021 05:04
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The_Doctor posted:So, the whole UNIT thing was a deliberate mess, right? I assumed it was a function of The Flux changing the planet's history.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:11
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Jerusalem posted:Holy poo poo, that rules. And it was just sitting there at the BFI all these decades? God, remember the "Omni-rumor" from years ago? That was a fun time.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:33
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It's Chibnall, so he's got to know. I'm gonna assume it's just a gag or a very complex way to try and fix it. OR it took 20 years to set UNIT up.NotJustANumber99 posted:The tree-in-a-tardis was really pretty and would actually justify the reactions of the randoms that find themselves in the tardis for the first time. Currently their reactions should be a slightly bemused shrug and beginning to think about whether they want to play a skill, mental, physical or mystery game. lmao. Man, reminds me of the bloody game show ep just before Rose. The annbot and Big Brother, fun stuff. With having so much choice of what to watch, can't get that stuff anymore probably.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:29
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e: nvm
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Dec 1, 2021 18:31
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Quotey posted:e: also, Vinder/Bel are absolutely Doc's parents. Got to be. Ahhh nonono don't even put that into words This season has had some really great classic moments but as otherwise been a complete incoherent mess. Village of the Angels has been a highlight and some classic Who, but this most recent episode? Like oh no, a ship is drifting off from shielding Earth better automatically recall another one from god knows how far away instead of, you know, automatically replacing the one that is right loving there. I guess the only saving grace is that when its all done I don't think the stakes can ever get ramped up higher than PROTECTING THE MULTIVERSE
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Dec 1, 2021 18:52
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Didn't RTD already do protecting the multiverse
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Dec 1, 2021 19:01
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Bilirubin posted:Ahhh nonono don't even put that into words I'm still not sure how ships made of matter can shield from something that destroys all matter.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:15
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Dabir posted:Didn't RTD already do protecting the multiverse I think it was always just the one universe, although people marooned in an another one were involved. Which incidentally... did the Division not notice that there is at least another universe with a Doctor gallivanting around?
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Dec 1, 2021 19:15
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I think it was always just the one universe, although people marooned in an another one were involved. Which incidentally... did the Division not notice that there is at least another universe with a Doctor gallivanting around? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHujK0lwIdI
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Dec 1, 2021 19:25
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Oh, I forgot that bit. Well, I should've known better, there is literally no way to go bigger than Russel T. Davies.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:30
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Dabir posted:Didn't RTD already do protecting the multiverse It's also a huge loving 90's Who clichè. It's been done to loving death.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:30
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What's the lowest stakes Doctor Who adventure written yet? Like any time the doctor just wanted to make a simple sandwhich and ends up running around the galaxy doing who knows what, ultimately giving the big speech just to get the Fridge AI to open up so he could grab some turkey.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:05
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Love and Monsters.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:23
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