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Mantis42 posted:Goodbye and good luck, Groogs I'm still going to hang around. I still like the games and poo poo posting Dr. Arbitrary posted:Using the following evidence: No comment
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Nov 29, 2021 20:03
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Using the following evidence:
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Nov 29, 2021 20:28
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Nearly 2022, and Paradox has a change at the top since Imperator wash shelved. Does anyone have any hope for it being resurrected, or insights into internal decision making? Would seem like suuuuuuch a waste for it to be left where it is; the base mechanics since the Marius patch are by far my favourite (though I won't pretend to be all that experienced with PDX games more generally). If only it had launched in Early Access! It's hard to envision I:R's current, ambiguous situation had the original version been released as anything but "1.0".
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Nov 30, 2021 06:41
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Maenad posted:Nearly 2022, and Paradox has a change at the top since Imperator wash shelved. Does anyone have any hope for it being resurrected, or insights into internal decision making? it wasn't very popular and reworking it wasn't fixing that i don't think that has changed
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Nov 30, 2021 06:50
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It doesn't look good when Victoria 2 has almost twice the average players online on Steam than Imperator.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:36
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Maenad posted:Nearly 2022, and Paradox has a change at the top since Imperator wash shelved. Does anyone have any hope for it being resurrected, or insights into internal decision making? It’s dead Jim
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Nov 30, 2021 09:38
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Groogy posted:I'm still going to hang around. I still like the games and poo poo posting He quoted it to say no comment instead of actually not commenting C O N F I R M E D
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Nov 30, 2021 10:49
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There are some modders working on an HPM-style mod for Imperator called Imperator Invictus. If there is any hope for the game's future its through that.
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Nov 30, 2021 13:08
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Gonna be funny when ten years from now people meme Maybe the third attempt to get people interested in the era as a GSG will be successful 
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Nov 30, 2021 15:09
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The issue is I'm not sure Imperator scratches an itch that isn't scratched better by some other game: Victoria 2 survived to get a sequel because there's nothing in the same genre gameplay wise and there's sparse competition for the setting. Meanwhile Imperator is a cobbled together from different Paradox games and competes in the same setting as Rome Total War.
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Nov 30, 2021 16:23
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EU Rome always made me feel like paradox had designers with interest in every era of history except the classical era, and imperator didn't really feel different in that regard. i'm not saying that the content designers didn't know their ancient history, but it never seemed like they understood the period on a visceral level, unlike CK, EU, vicky, etc.
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Nov 30, 2021 16:32
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Jazerus posted:EU Rome always made me feel like paradox had designers with interest in every era of history except the classical era, and imperator didn't really feel different in that regard. i'm not saying that the content designers didn't know their ancient history, but it never seemed like they understood the period on a visceral level, unlike CK, EU, vicky, etc. Yeah, I think that was the problem as someone who is a great fan of that era. And it's not like there are ton of classical themed games out there, so it's not competition. I wanted Imperator to be good so much because that era is easily my favorite and I hated the launch. The split character/EU4 style nation focus was just a terrible idea. As well granted, when they said Imperator instead of EU:Rome2 I thought we'd get a new base game instead of just EU:Rome2.
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Nov 30, 2021 16:36
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Drone posted:Gonna be funny when ten years from now people meme I remember people being happy it wasn't eu: rome 2 only to be disappointed when they realized it was.
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Nov 30, 2021 16:55
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There's an opportunity being missed somewhere around here to make a game with "Rome 2" in its title and have it be about Byzantium.
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Nov 30, 2021 17:23
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Eimi posted:Yeah, I think that was the problem as someone who is a great fan of that era. And it's not like there are ton of classical themed games out there, so it's not competition. I wanted Imperator to be good so much because that era is easily my favorite and I hated the launch. The split character/EU4 style nation focus was just a terrible idea. Literally same. I wonder if some tweaks to the game and UX in managing successions would have helped. Otherwise, I felt zero investment in what I was doing as a given leader and managing internal politics.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:07
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As someone who is not very well versed in the Classical Era, what should its focus be? Crusader Kings is about the drama of noble families and bloodlines EU is about the growing power of The State and the pressures and objectives applied to it Victoria is about industrialization and the growing power of interest groups distinct from states Hearts of Iron is about industrial warfare on a global scale What should a Classical game focus on that makes it not just a recolored version of one of the others?
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Nov 30, 2021 19:13
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Kaza42 posted:As someone who is not very well versed in the Classical Era, what should its focus be? I don't have an answer for you. But this did make me think about a game set during the barbarian invasions a la tw: attila and how different and possibly fun it would be.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:18
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It depends if you want to go overall vs Rome specifically, but for me personally my ideal game would be focusing on the tension between family and state. So closer to CK style, but there's less a focus on you ruling as much as accruing power. Sort of like the Republic dlc. You could control the country if a a party who was your client was in power type of deal. You're focused on getting estates, making deals, loving over the other families, and see your fortune rise while a state is also forming. Sometimes what you do makes your state better, sometimes you're Caesar crossing the rubicon. As well have strong adoption mechanics so it's not bloodline, it's clan, clients and clientele, that sort of thing.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:23
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Kaza42 posted:As someone who is not very well versed in the Classical Era, what should its focus be? all of the first three mashed together imo at least if your focus is rome. they have this whole historical arc of transitioning from nobles and kings to a republic with growing state power and then mass industrialization to support an ever-expanding military effort. the story of the classical world is the story of CK, EU, and Vicky transposed into an entirely different era. i don't think a rome game needs to be mechanically distinct from the entire paradox catalog, but it does need to not be just EU with some characters and pops that don't mean much. if it's necessarily a fusion title it needs to be a fusion title all the way, frankly probably leaning more toward the vicky side of things but playing as a character instead of the state. i understand how imperator ended up as it is - trying to do exactly that but not doing it in a way that feels reflective of the era - and i think someone who is really, really intense about classical history (and not the spartan fanboy type) needs to be in charge of it.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:29
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Maybe kinda like CK (in the focus on characters and families) but with more economy and trade
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Nov 30, 2021 19:33
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It should be a game about building roads, bridges, viaducts, and forts
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Nov 30, 2021 22:21
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It should be a game about finding new cultures and religions and convincing their populace that actually their gods are the same thing as your gods even though your gods are just older gods with new names.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:31
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Crete LP the game. Seriously.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:37
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I think Roman/classical history is really cool and also that Paradox should and presumably will stay away from it for a long time after two failed attempts. I'd rather see them try something new (and prioritize other sequels like EU5) way more than I want to see them bang their heads against that wall again.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:31
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yikes! posted:I remember people being happy it wasn't eu: rome 2 only to be disappointed when they realized it was. this was the major selling point in fact, that it was literally EU: Rome 2. the ultimate problem with the game was its design on release being Bad.
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Dec 1, 2021 05:04
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Such a selling point they changed the name
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Dec 1, 2021 05:05
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Gaius Marius posted:Such a selling point they changed the name Imperator: Rome is a better name to try and get fresh eyes on it than the unwieldy sequel name to a game that many Paradox fans probably haven't ever touched.
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Dec 1, 2021 05:13
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Jazerus posted:EU Rome always made me feel like paradox had designers with interest in every era of history except the classical era, and imperator didn't really feel different in that regard. i'm not saying that the content designers didn't know their ancient history, but it never seemed like they understood the period on a visceral level, unlike CK, EU, vicky, etc. Something about Imperator has been bothering me for ages but I could never put my finger on why exactly, but now you say this, I think this is totally it. Aside from a hypothetical first-millennium-Korea grand strategy game the Classical era is by far my favorite period, but in a way that Imperator just completely doesn't capture. To be fair I feel what I truly want out of games in the setting is atmosphere and feel -- and probably one as much informed by pop culture as any kind of deep historical understanding, but it's one that the vast majority of games in the period capture really nicely. I guess this is all just based on a hunch, but it would make a lot of sense if that's because most games focusing on it are by designers that actively picked the period, whereas for Paradox, it was basically the only major setting they hadn't already covered so they did it out of some feeling of obligation more than interest. True or not, interest is obviously pretty important in making an engaging themed game. It makes me think, in the threads calling for China in CK3 (and at one point, Imperator  ) what seems to be the most common rebuttal is along the lines of "it would be better for it to just get its own game in the period," which... was always flatly disingenuous since there's no way they're doing that again after Sengoku, but even if they were to, it probably wouldn't feel right at all. A genuinely invested interest in a setting is kind of important to pulling it off right.
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Dec 1, 2021 05:36
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I was thinking about something like King of Dragon Pass/Six Ages in that you play as the ruling elite, be it senators, clan elders or nobility. So you're not tied to a particular dinasty like in CK2 but every interaction is done by using the pool of nobles at your disposal and you have to keep the different families happy or risk inestability
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Dec 1, 2021 06:00
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There should be a sistergame to ck set in china
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Dec 1, 2021 07:34
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Pacho posted:I was thinking about something like King of Dragon Pass/Six Ages in that you play as the ruling elite, be it senators, clan elders or nobility. So you're not tied to a particular dynasty like in CK2 but every interaction is done by using the pool of nobles at your disposal and you have to keep the different families happy or risk instability So kind of like CK except focusing more on which cults you have relationships with rather than the moral depravity of everyone with a shiny hat? I'd play that.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:41
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My dream classical Rome game would be almost an Oregon Trail/Paradox hybrid. You necessarily start as a roman patriarch. The difficulty level determines how many Roman rear end in a top hat points you get. You can spend them on start, lands, successful ancestors, upgrading from plebeian to patrician, etc, or gain more by making your clan poor, having gently caress all, having your dad be a worthless failson who let half a legion get routed, etc. Then the game is winning political and military victories, building up your estates, rising to higher offices, and ultimately the win condition is pulling an Octavian and instituting a principate. In the mean time you'd watch Rome expand while fighting tactical battles and building up estates and industries in Rome and abroad, generation after generation.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:51
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Stairmaster posted:There should be a sistergame to ck set in china I would be so down for Paradox to take on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series
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Dec 1, 2021 17:06
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Making a game set during the rise of Rome is already at a bit of a disadvantage from much less people knowing about or really caring about that period, and if they do care, then they only care about Rome. People who care a lot about Greece or Egypt or Persia would probably want different time periods. You'd really have to lure in people aside from just Rome fans with some really stand-out mechanics, but while all the things I read about Imperator sounded okay, I guess they weren't really that different from what other Paradox games do.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:33
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the early modern era is even less known/cared about and EU still does really well i don't think it's a matter of a lack of interest on the consumer side, there are (relative to most other historical periods) a lot of people interested in the classical era. it's just that it's really hard to get it right on the design side without a passion for the period because the culture of the ancient mediterranean is not linked to modern western culture as directly as everything medieval and later. you have to immerse yourself in that culture for a while to really "get it", to overcome a natural bias toward viewing history as a straight line with "the ancients" being sort of a midpoint between cavemen and medieval people. imperator, from what i played of it, hits the highlights of roman history from the perspective of someone who hasn't done that foundational work toward understanding the nuances and implements those highlights as game mechanics. the focus on rebelling generals was especially telling for me; that was just, like, not a prominent or important thing until near the end of the timespan depicted by the game - and then became very rare again for like 200 years - and when it happened it wasn't about "disloyalty" to the state, but rather personal grudges or simply differing views on what the state should be doing. but people at large think of roman civil wars when they think about rome, so it made it in as a general problem you have to guard against constantly. people think about the persecution of christians and the jewish wars, so religious conversion is a big mechanic, when actually attempting active religious conversion using state resources was practically unheard of outside of the beef the romans had with monotheists. all of this is why i think a vicky-like game would be a much better fit. it's better suited to the kinds of centralized states that were the major players of the period as well as the intense focus on internal politics. the new war system in v3 would also be a better fit for depicting self-centered, power-hungry generals - send caesar off to war in gaul and watch in horror as he tries to press a "full annexation" wargoal on every tribe he meets through the most brutal possible tactics, with every victory further cementing the loyalty of his legions to him, personally Jazerus fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 18:10
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Ah yes, the early modern period, that nobody has strong feelings about and doesn't feature any states recognizeable in the present day and lacks formative events that directly relate to modern society that everyone is aware of. And you kind of doubly prove my point by suggesting other Rome-centric mechanics.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:Making a game set during the rise of Rome is already at a bit of a disadvantage from much less people knowing about or really caring about that period, and if they do care, then they only care about Rome. People who care a lot about Greece or Egypt or Persia would probably want different time periods. Idk, Egypt is my eternal bae of the ancients, and I can think of millions of ways to take Rome mechanics and make them into excellent ptolemaic ones. Also the ptolemaic era is vastly more well-recorded than the many, many years previous. I don't really expect PDS to portray the sixth dynasty any better than Rome Total War OG did the ptolemies.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:26
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If you want a game during the period to stand out in terms of gameplay, and not be Rome-centric, make it one where you control a religion rather than states or people.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:33
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SlothfulCobra posted:Ah yes, the early modern period, that nobody has strong feelings about and doesn't feature any states recognizeable in the present day and lacks formative events that directly relate to modern society that everyone is aware of. they are not rome-centric. i framed them in roman history but they could apply equally well to most any centralized polity of the period; rome was simply the state that ended up outcompeting everyone else, not some sort of unique beast all its own. uncentralized polities would need a separate set of mechanics - which is also the case in vicky, as it happens the big highlights of the early modern might be things that people have strong feelings about, but EU goes far beyond those highlights in trying to depict the era on its own terms so that it doesn't just feel like a hollow shell for those highlights to exist within.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:35
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It is genuinely funny that Imperator (and EU: Rome, I think) ends at the date of the creation of the Roman Empire. Its like ending Crusader Kings at 1096 - the most famous element of the period for which the game itself is named - is not present.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:58
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