[Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

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(Thread IKs: Stereotype)

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Torpor posted:

if arsenic trioxide is a marketable commodity with annual production of 50,000 tons why don�t they mine their own tailings to sell it off even at a loss? the permanently freeze it for eternity strategy seems like an immediate nonstarter that leaves the risk in place?

the other alternative was to dig it up, encase it in concrete, and be done.

but the discount rate says its "cheaper" to pay for something forever than spend more money now

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:48

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:08

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

It's 17 degrees celcius, here, in Medicine Hat - Southwest Alberta, on the Montana border.

I am working in a T-shirt, with the roof hatches open.

The wind is HOT. I am dehydrated.

It hasn't snowed. There was a skiff two weeks ago, which evaporated the next day.

There have been three minor Precipitation events since I arrived in early August.

It is December 1st, 2021.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:57

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Trabisnikof posted:

the other alternative was to dig it up, encase it in concrete, and be done.

but the discount rate says its "cheaper" to pay for something forever than spend more money now

did a search on delay discounting to remember what was, and lol

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69700-w

quote:

Delay discounting decisions are linked to temporal distance representations of world events across cultures
31 July 2020
Abstract

Delay discounting describes the phenomenon whereby the subjective value of a reward declines as the time until its receipt increases. Individuals differ in the subjective value that they assign to future rewards, yet, the components feeding into this appraisal of value remain unclear. We examined whether temporal psychological distance, i.e. the closeness one feels to the past and future, is one such component. English speakers in the USA and Mandarin speakers in China completed a delay discounting task and organized past and future world events on a canvas according to their representation of the event�s temporal position relative to themselves. Previous work has identified linguistic and cultural differences in time conception between these populations, thus, we hypothesized that this sample would display the variability necessary to probe whether temporal psychological distance plays a role in reward valuation. We found that English speakers employed horizontal, linear representations of world events, while Mandarin speakers used more two-dimensional, circular representations. Across cultures, individuals who represented the future as more distant discounted future rewards more strongly. Distance representations of past events, however, were associated with discounting behaviors selectively in Mandarin speakers. This suggests that temporal psychological distance plays a fundamental role in farsighted decision-making.

the paper suggests it�s because mandarin is written differently :thunk:

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:58

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Rime posted:

The wind is HOT. I am dehydrated.

So, you're saying it's a dry heat

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:58

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

mawarannahr posted:

did a search on delay discounting to remember what was, and lol

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69700-w

the paper suggests it�s because mandarin is written differently

lol im talking more about the economic concept of discount rate in relation to the "time value of money"

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/timevalueofmoney.asp

quote:

The time value of money (TVM) is the concept that a sum of money is worth more now than the same sum will be at a future date due to its earnings potential in the interim.

This is a core principle of finance. A sum of money in the hand has greater value than the same sum to be paid in the future.

The time value of money is also referred to as present discounted value.

and with that little "core principle of finance" it makes it impossible for the future to ever be financially worth saving

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:02

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

Trabisnikof posted:

the other alternative was to dig it up, encase it in concrete, and be done.

but the discount rate says its "cheaper" to pay for something forever than spend more money now

must be a problem with digging it up and giving it away for industrial or medication purposes because that seems like the best option. mixing it with concrete seems silly and yet it is the cornerstone of environmental remediation of toxic substances. freezing it until money runs out and it escapes and kills everyone is the worst option.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:08

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Rime posted:

It's 17 degrees celcius, here, in Medicine Hat - Southwest Alberta, on the Montana border.

I am working in a T-shirt, with the roof hatches open.

The wind is HOT. I am dehydrated.

It hasn't snowed. There was a skiff two weeks ago, which evaporated the next day.

There have been three minor Precipitation events since I arrived in early August.

It is December 1st, 2021.

so what you're saying is

things aren't that bad, yet

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:16

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Torpor posted:

must be a problem with digging it up and giving it away for industrial or medication purposes because that seems like the best option. mixing it with concrete seems silly and yet it is the cornerstone of environmental remediation of toxic substances. freezing it until money runs out and it escapes and kills everyone is the worst option.

I think they were supposed to cask it instead of mixing it into the concrete. but yeah, not exactly a long term fix either since concrete does degrade over time.

also as to why they don't sell it, i have to imagine that the market is for pure arsenic trioxide and that cleaning out the metals from the dust would be "too expensive" to be worth it, also people weren't too thrilled about digging up and loving around with the waste dumps to begin with

quote:

https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100027413/1617999134934#how

How was the arsenic trioxide waste produced?

Arsenic trioxide waste was created during mining operations. When the arsenopyrite ore was roasted to release the gold, arsenic was also released as a gas, arsenic dioxide. As the gas cooled, it changed to a solid state and became arsenic trioxide dust. Arsenic trioxide presents a health hazard, which is why the Project team carefully manages the waste.

During the life of the mine, the roasting process created about 237,000 tonnes of arsenic trioxide waste. This waste was collected and stored in 14 underground chambers and stopes. No new arsenic trioxide has been produced since Royal Oak Mines went bankrupt in 1999.

The dust stored underground is about 79% arsenic trioxide. It also contains other minerals such as iron, antimony and gold.

Where is the arsenic trioxide now?

There are 11 chambers and five mined out stopes at Giant Mine, built for the purpose of storing waste. Fourteen of these contain a total of approximately 237,000 tonnes of arsenic trioxide waste. The current storage of arsenic trioxide underground at Giant Mine is safe. The chambers and stopes are surrounded by solid rock between 80 and 250 feet below the surface. The chambers are all located near the C-shaft. Cement bulkheads act as plugs and seal the openings to these chambers and stopes.

Arsenic trioxide is soluble in water, though only moderately. However, the pumps at Giant Mine keep the level of groundwater well below the storage chambers. Any water seepage that comes into contact with the storage chambers is collected in the mine water system, pumped to the surface, and treated. The mine and local surface waters are regularly monitored to ensure arsenic trioxide does not escape into the environment.

During remediation, these will be further contained using the frozen block method.

The arsenic trioxide is not in barrels, and the chambers are not under the lake. There are also no chambers or stopes under the communities of Ndilo, Dettah or Yellowknife.

There is very little arsenic trioxide in the tailings. Most of the arsenic in the tailings is in stable forms, including arsenopyrite. The Project completed several studies that look at arsenic contamination on the surface. These are available from the project office.

Why not just remove arsenic out and take it away?

The arsenic doesn't belong anywhere else. It's from here. The arsenic, just like the gold, originates from the local rock. However, Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada and its technical advisors examined very carefully whether the arsenic trioxide could be removed and disposed of safely elsewhere.

This alternative was rejected for many reasons, including:

*removing the dust would pose significant risks for workers mining out this highly toxic material
*transporting the material would potentially seriously endanger the environment
*members of the public expressed concern about the level of risk

Another option examined was whether the arsenic trioxide dust could be removed and placed in a secure landfill on the Giant Mine property. That would eliminate the problem of spills during transport. However, a permanent hazardous waste site would need to be created on the Giant Mine surface. In addition, it would be impossible to remove all the dust because of the irregular nature of the rock around the stopes and chambers. Several thousand tonnes of arsenic trioxide dust would likely remain underground. That would mean there would be two hazardous waste sites: one above ground and one underground.

In the final analysis, all of the alternatives that looked at taking the arsenic out posed more risks to workers, the public and environment than the frozen block method.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:21

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

Trabisnikof posted:

lol im talking more about the economic concept of discount rate in relation to the "time value of money"

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/timevalueofmoney.asp

and with that little "core principle of finance" it makes it impossible for the future to ever be financially worth saving

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:26

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Humans Have Broken a Fundamental Law of the Ocean

quote:

The models suggest that the biomass of fish larger than 10 grams and all marine mammals has shrunk by more than 2 billion metric tons since 1800. The very largest size classes appear to have experienced a reduction in biomass of nearly 90 percent since 1800. Many of the big fish and mammals that used to populate the ocean simply aren’t there anymore.

“The world that I grew up in is gone,” says Kristin Kaschner, a marine ecologist at the University of Freiburg, Germany. Between 1890 and 2001, the population of all whale species declined from more than 2.5 million to under 880,000. While the population of some whale species has rebounded since the global whaling moratorium in 1986, many are still endangered. And while the majority of fish stocks are fished in a way that allows them to maintain or grow their populations, just over 34 percent of them are overexploited, which means we’re removing so many fish from a certain area that their populations cannot recover.

"The earth can easily support billions more people, the only problem is our inefficient systems!" :allears:

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:30

Laterite: Mar 14, 2007; It's Gutfest '89; Grimey Drawer

Trabisnikof posted:

I think they were supposed to cask it instead of mixing it into the concrete. but yeah, not exactly a long term fix either since concrete does degrade over time.

also as to why they don't sell it, i have to imagine that the market is for pure arsenic trioxide and that cleaning out the metals from the dust would be "too expensive" to be worth it, also people weren't too thrilled about digging up and loving around with the waste dumps to begin with

solving the problem of the sword of damocles by placing your neck right against the tip to counteract the strain on the fraying rope

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:42

goochtit: Nov 2, 2021

Rime posted:

Humans Have Broken a Fundamental Law of the Ocean

"The earth can easily support billions more people, the only problem is our inefficient systems!"

Just replace them with 2 billion metric tons of these guys and program them to eat plastic:
https://i.imgur.com/EOQn2Hl.mp4Problem solved, progress wins again :smug:

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:44

nomad2020: Jan 30, 2007

RE: the Ocean.

Netflix's 'Chasing Coral' is a good watch if you're feeling overly hopeful about saving the oceans as we know them.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:45

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

goochtit posted:

Just replace them with 2 billion metric tons of these guys and program them to eat plastic:
https://i.imgur.com/EOQn2Hl.mp4Problem solved, progress wins again

But... I'm plastic....

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:46

Acelerion: May 3, 2005

nomad2020 posted:

RE: the Ocean.

Netflix's 'Chasing Coral' is a good watch if you're feeling overly hopeful about saving the oceans as we know them.

Yeah I watched this and it was super depressing. I spent a lot of time when I was in my teens diving/snorkeling and the coral I saw then does not exist now. Its shocking how fast it disappeared. It was so beautiful and its all dead.

These documentaries piss me off though because they all end on this quasi-rosey note of the next generation fixing it like the solution is
1. Raise awareness
2. ?????
3. The world is saved

Lets hear some actual solutions you pussys

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:57

IAMKOREA: Apr 21, 2007

Milo and POTUS posted:

But... I'm plastic....

God damnit, no you're not! Wake up, man! That's just the plastic speaking!

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:00

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

I am microdosing macroplastics to build a tolerance

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:16

IAMKOREA: Apr 21, 2007

I'm macrodosing LSD to build a tolerance (to how loving much this poo poo sucks)

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:19

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Acelerion posted:

Yeah I watched this and it was super depressing. I spent a lot of time when I was in my teens diving/snorkeling and the coral I saw then does not exist now. Its shocking how fast it disappeared. It was so beautiful and its all dead.

These documentaries piss me off though because they all end on this quasi-rosey note of the next generation fixing it like the solution is
1. Raise awareness
2. ?????
3. The world is saved

Lets hear some actual solutions you pussys

look, it would be bad to end on a downer note okay? we will raise awareness and fund raise for global agile solutions that synergize with the enterprise market to enable clean green living while shifting the paradigm towards harm reduction. there is still hope as more people have become educated and made aware that they will induce demand upon legislators to introduce private-public market-based alternatives to protect the environment.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:23

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

anyways oceans are filled with a bunch of gloomy murky slimy seamonsters. kill it all. we have factory chicken n steak we can eat instead.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:25

Rectal Death Adept: Jun 20, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

squids were safe from the asteroid

Think sheeple

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:28

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

re: nuclear waste warning for the future

i kinda think the issue is bullshit. the government dont care about people living now getting irradiated in states like tennessee where oak ridge lab poisoned thousands of black people.

its just a decades long diversion from having an actual energy policy and its a really enticing one for a lot of people since its interdisciplinary and artistic.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:20

Serf: May 5, 2011

literally just put the waste in tanks and drop it into that big loving hole in the ocean. ain't poo poo ever coming back from that

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:31

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

https://mobile.twitter.com/50ShadesofVan/status/1466141380661723140

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:48

Lacrosse: Jun 16, 2010; >:V

Rime posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/50ShadesofVan/status/1466141380661723140

They wouldn't call it Summerland if it wasn't summer year round so I fail to see the problem

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:55

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Rime posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/50ShadesofVan/status/1466141380661723140

lol i was there in like april or may 15 years ago and it was cooler than that

# ? Dec 1, 2021 23:23

kater: Nov 16, 2010

I�d like to thank the horrifying chicken coop video for making me numb to the day.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 23:54

tiberion02: Mar 26, 2007; People tend to make the common mistake of believing that a situation will last forever.

Rime posted:

It's 17 degrees celcius here in Southwest Alberta
I am working in a T-shirt, with the roof hatches open.
The wind is HOT. I am dehydrated.
It hasn't snowed.
It is December 1st, 2021.

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:01

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2021/11/30/study-links-high-cholesterol-cardiovascular-disease-plastics

quote:

Plastics, part of modern life, are useful but can pose a significant challenge to the environment and may also constitute a health concern. Indeed, exposure to plastic-associated chemicals, such as base chemical bisphenol A and phthalate plasticizers, can increase the risk of human cardiovascular disease. What underlying mechanisms cause this, however, remain elusive.

...

�To our knowledge, our study is the first to show the effects of DCHP exposure on high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease risk in mouse models,� Zhou said. �Our results provide insights and new understandings of the impact of plastic-associated chemicals on high cholesterol � or dyslipidemia � and cardiovascular disease risk.�

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:01

A Bakers Cousin: Dec 18, 2003; by vyelkin

temperate rainforest transform to semi-tropical will be a fun climate adjustment for the pacific north west

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:03

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

kater posted:

I�d like to thank the horrifying chicken coop video for making me numb to the day.

this one?

Kicked Throat posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWQU9VRWdn4
I'm sure you're aware of this sort of place but just in case people are curious where their yummy animal products come from. This is in the UK. The sound alone, eeesh.

because honestly i've seen worse

i still eat meat though because i'm a piece of poo poo

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:04

petit choux: Feb 24, 2016

Rectal Death Adept posted:

squids were safe from the asteroid

Think sheeple

He shall Rise Again

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:08

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Cold on a Cob posted:

this one?

because honestly i've seen worse

i still eat meat though because i'm a piece of poo poo

making these expose videos is officially terrorism in the us

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:17

Enfys: Feb 17, 2013; The ocean is calling and I must go

Xaris posted:

anyways oceans are filled with a bunch of gloomy murky slimy seamonsters. kill it all. we have factory chicken n steak we can eat instead.

https://i.imgur.com/KyEXaK2.mp4

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:22

Mameluke: Aug 2, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Trabisnikof posted:

in Canada there�s an old abandoned mine site that we have to keep frozen forever or else it kills everything down stream of it lol

�permanently freeze� meaning we will have to maintain and operate chilling equipment to freeze arsenic dust forever. And as soon as we stop rip downstream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4nZDSLdIiM

lmfao how tom mentions in passing that $8 billion of gold was gotten from the mine, and how the current remediation project it spawned is costed at a billion

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:34

no skateboarding EVER!: Apr 21, 2003; Jagermeister & schadenfreude.

It wasn't as warm in suburban Chicago as Alberta today, it was 49�F. We haven't had any snow so I was surprised to see this in my local park. It turns out it is from the outdoor refrigerant cooled ice rink.

Also I noticed some grass sprouting up. Ahhh springtime.

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:35

Crunchy Black: Oct 24, 2017; by Athanatos

I probably shouldn't have a youthful pepper on my plant here in north georgia should I

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:39

Mameluke: Aug 2, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

literally nothing more canadian than an outdoor artificial ice rink

death to canada

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:40

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Acelerion posted:

Take what you currently know about people and put the average one in front a a bunch of big gently caress off architecture/signage about imminent doom if you so much as disturb a rock and tell me what you think will happen

"Nothing valuable is here or was ever here, you will only find death in this place"

"Man that's EXACTLY the sort of poo poo people would put on their buried treasure. C'mon, go get those slaves to dig this up for us!"

I wonder if pictures of people suffering radiation poisoning would do the trick? Maybe not the first time, but when they dig too greedily and too deep and end up exactly like the pictures say, maybe they'll take the hint?

# ? Dec 2, 2021 01:26

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:08

T-Paine: Dec 12, 2007; Sitting in the Costco food court unmasked, Bible in hand, reading my favorite Psalms to my five children: Abel, Bethany, Carlos, Carlos, and Carlos.

Acelerion posted:

Yeah I watched this and it was super depressing. I spent a lot of time when I was in my teens diving/snorkeling and the coral I saw then does not exist now. Its shocking how fast it disappeared. It was so beautiful and its all dead.

These documentaries piss me off though because they all end on this quasi-rosey note of the next generation fixing it like the solution is
1. Raise awareness
2. ?????
3. The world is saved

Lets hear some actual solutions you pussys

A lot of people who genuinely care about the environment like Attenborough have convinced themselves that there has to be some kind of potential for salvation because otherwise their life's work has been little more than entertainment and education and it hasn't amounted to anything meaningful or impactful. I mean, you could say that about any of us, so

# ? Dec 2, 2021 02:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

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