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Antigravitas posted:Yes, please post more conservative apologia. Poor Merkel and her CDU/CSU being bullied into supporting coal companies and destroying tens of thousands of jobs in renewables by a party that has only gotten over 10% of the vote twice in its entire history: 10.7% in 2009 and 14.8% in 2021. Trying to pin automatic support for conservatives, coal energy, or an energy policy reliant on fossil fuel imports from authoritarian regimes on people who support nuclear energy (I wonder which energy sources it would seek to replace in this context) is idiotic in the extreme. 
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Dec 2, 2021 09:58
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like, i'm 100% sure part of the reason why the green parties get fuckall in elections so far despite the ecological situation being insanely dire is how hysteric they can present themselves over issues like nuclear just this morning some insane person was asking me why i don't care about what will happen to spent radioactive fuel in 10k years when the continents shift and tectonics change, lmfao
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Dec 2, 2021 10:06
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Trying to pin automatic support for conservatives, coal energy, or an energy policy reliant on fossil fuel imports from authoritarian regimes on people who support nuclear energy (I wonder which energy sources it would seek to replace in this context) is idiotic in the extreme. You're parroting conservative talking points that exist to deflect from their failed policy, so yes, you seem to support them. People who have made it their mission to blame everything on the Greens don't seem to have any grasp on Germany's domestic politics whatsoever. Just a quick reminder: You are still strongly discouraged from collecting mushrooms in some parts of the country (and if you don't get why that is a big deal in Germany…), Asse II exists, energy companies have used armed thugs to beat peaceful protesters, companies were caught running plants with broken security systems and trying to cover up defects. Nuclear is politically entirely dead in Germany, not just economically dead due to the extreme costs. That is the reality across parties. The only question is how to transition away from it. The conservative answer is to pump more subsidies into fossil fuels and to destroy German renewable industry, the Greens, during their extremely brief stint as a junior party in government, planned the opposite. Truga posted:like, i'm 100% sure part of the reason why the green parties get fuckall in elections so far despite the ecological situation being insanely dire is how hysteric they can present themselves over issues like nuclear Nope. It's because people are afraid they're going to make everyone vegetarian and take away their Autobahn.
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Dec 2, 2021 10:27
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Antigravitas posted:You're parroting conservative talking points that exist to deflect from their failed policy, so yes, you seem to support them. So now it’s everything that I’m blaming Greens for, huh. Because it surely is impossible just to be critical of their approach to nuclear energy and to assert that the approach has had a meaningful effect on German energy policies. 
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Dec 2, 2021 10:38
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Antigravitas posted:Nuclear is politically entirely dead in Germany, not just economically dead due to the extreme costs. That is the reality across parties i dunno man quote:Kurz vor der Bundestagswahl erreicht der Strompreis hierzulande ein neues Allzeithoch. Drei Viertel der Deutschen fordern von der nächsten Bundesregierung deshalb einen Strompreis-Stopp. Dafür würde jeder Dritte (31 Prozent) sogar an der Atomkraft festhalten – 11 Prozentpunkte mehr als noch vor drei Jahren. another decade of price hikes and germans are gonna be staunch nuclear supporters lmfao
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Dec 2, 2021 10:52
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Truga posted:i dunno man Historical price hikes and 30% support, thanks for proving that nuclear is more dead than disco
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Dec 2, 2021 13:32
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So now we just need 20 years of concerned propaganda to make that 50%, followed by 10 years of planning and 20 years of building, and we'll have a workable action plan for 2060 energy policy that will be obsolete by 2025
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Dec 2, 2021 13:35
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steinrokkan posted:Historical price hikes and 30% support, thanks for proving that nuclear is more dead than disco Everywhere else supports nuclear, not our fault that Germany is literally cutting off it's nose to spite it's face
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Dec 2, 2021 14:36
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If nuke power turns out to be economically competitive there'll be a market for selling it to Germany from France or Poland or whatever. It seems like a non-issue
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Dec 2, 2021 14:51
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https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1466384552159584257 https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/1466008995760644098
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Dec 2, 2021 16:01
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aphid_licker posted:If nuke power turns out to be economically competitive there'll be a market for selling it to Germany from France or Poland or whatever. It seems like a non-issue Which is what already happens. But given the argument from Germany is: "Nuclear is dangerous and dirty" their willingness to buy power from countries generated with Nuclear is just hypocritical on their part. Its the ultimate NIMBYism, ironic given that NIMBYism is party of why their Renewables plan has stalled and they are falling back on Gas and Coal/Biomass.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:03
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CommieGIR posted:Which is what already happens. But given the argument from Germany is: "Nuclear is dangerous and dirty" their willingness to buy power from countries generated with Nuclear is just hypocritical on their part. Its the ultimate NIMBYism, ironic given that NIMBYism is party of why their Renewables plan has stalled and they are falling back on Gas and Coal/Biomass. It's hypocritical but who cares. They're gonna meekly buy the stuff if a cheaper equally reliable renewable supply fails to materialize
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Dec 2, 2021 16:12
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mobby_6kl posted:What if the gas is captured cow farts? Shouldn't that count? Cows?! Just feed the Germans cabbage and set up gas collection points. They'll flock to them to fart, giggle, and make rude jokes. Serve beer, easy as. Reversing the flow, so to speak.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:15
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CommieGIR posted:Its the ultimate NIMBYism, ironic given that NIMBYism is party of why their Renewables plan has stalled and they are falling back on Gas and Coal/Biomass. There is no irony. That is the core of the conservative platform. You only have to look at Bavaria, which doesn't want wind, nuclear, solar, biomass, hydro, or more transmission capacity.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:21
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Antigravitas posted:Why would Jeremy Corbyn do this "Why would you associate the Greens with the phasing out of nuclear energy in Germany? You conservative fool" quote:
https://www.gruene.de/themen/energie Its almost like getting rid of nuclear power, across the entire continent (!!) is a a core party plank of the Green party, and their own party platform literally states this.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:46
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The talk was about reversing the nuclear phaseout to remove the gas dependency. The gas dependency exists because the CDU/CSU decided to phase out nuclear without actually doing much to replace fossil fuels. Absolutely nobody is propping up nuclear in Germany, it's deader than disco. My issue is with pretending energy policy in Germany was decided by the Green party when that is simply false. As you know, the Greens aren't particularly happy about NS2 either…
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Dec 2, 2021 17:00
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Its completely disingenuous to claim the phasing out of nuclear energy in Germany is nothing to do with the Greens because they haven't been in government, given its been a core part of their party platform for decades. Its entirely possible to influence government policy from opposition when you spend decades lobbying the public to turn against something. But even laying the past aside, the real question is moving forward which party is the most likely to insist on the terrible plan of phasing out nuclear energy in not just Germany but in the EU as a whole. And the blame for that lands squarely on...the Greens. If they got their way and we phased out nuclear across the entirety of the EU the EU would become even more dependent on Russia, and would dramatically raise co2 emissions while we're at it. Its a completely awful, not remotely supported by science, policy that will actually contribute more to global warming, and local pollution, than the alternative.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:08
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Die Linke has been polling higher than the Greens for most elections and they are no closer to getting their policies implemented. So perhaps, just perhaps, Nuclear is dead cross parties. The only differences are how the end of nuclear is to be approached. Blut posted:If they got their way and we phased out nuclear across the entirety of the EU the EU would become even more dependent on Russia, and would dramatically raise co2 emissions while we're at it. Its a completely awful, not remotely supported by science, policy that will actually contribute more to global warming, and local pollution, than the alternative. You'll have to describe the mechanism considering reducing gas is a core part of the Green party platform as well. Which would've already happened if the republic hadn't been asleep at the wheel for the last 16 years. The primary use of gas in Germany is heating, by the way. Something that would be fairly easy to remedy considering the technology to build buildings that barely need any additional heating is available.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:31
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Antigravitas posted:The primary use of gas in Germany is heating, by the way. Something that would be fairly easy to remedy considering the technology to build buildings that barely need any additional heating is available. Right now it is, but its also ~18% of Germany's energy generation and with Germany openly pushing Natural Gas as "Green" I suspect it'll be far more in the future, regardless of heating changes.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:40
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Doubtful. Gas will have a future as emergency standby power since it's much quicker to spool up, but right now it is holding pretty steady while coal is cratering due to market forces despite excessive sweetheart deals the conservatives made for that industry. The real problem is heating though. Heating consumes a good third of all energy in the country, and half of that is gas.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:55
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Antigravitas posted:Doubtful. Gas will have a future as emergency standby power since it's much quicker to spool up, but right now it is holding pretty steady while coal is cratering due to market forces despite excessive sweetheart deals the conservatives made for that industry. Gonna disagree, especially given that they are already in an energy shortfall and closing their last nuclear plants will mean quick energy, which will likely be Natural Gas. Even Coal ramped up a bit this year. There's pretty much no path other than Natural Gas energy generation for Germany at this point. Which in the context of Eastern Europe, means a weakened EU resolve to any Russian actions. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 18:06
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steinrokkan posted:Historical price hikes and 30% support, thanks for proving that nuclear is more dead than disco jesus christ dude, thanks for explaining my joke in such great detail Antigravitas posted:Doubtful. Gas will have a future as emergency standby power since it's much quicker to spool up, but right now it is holding pretty steady while coal is cratering due to market forces despite excessive sweetheart deals the conservatives made for that industry. that's what the plan is, but it brings me no pleasure to report that sadly, coal is very much not yet cratering https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-electricity-source/a-59168105
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Dec 2, 2021 18:23
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aphid_licker posted:If nuke power turns out to be economically competitive there'll be a market for selling it to Germany from France or Poland or whatever. It seems like a non-issue France, maybe. Poland is riding the coal train to wherever it takes us (hell by compass).
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Dec 2, 2021 20:55
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Tevery Best posted:France, maybe. Poland is riding the coal train to wherever it takes us (hell by compass). Poland recognizes the issue at least and has engaged a couple Nuclear vendors to start doing some planning. Right now they are focusing on 2033 as a start date for a new reactor. quote:In August 2021, Polish company Synthos Green Energy began screening sites for small modular reactors (SMRs). Synthos Green Energy is a subsidiary of Synthos, a chemical manufacturing company in Poland. It has signed agreements related to SMR development with GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy, Tractebel, and Ultra Safe Nuclear Corporation.Proposed nuclear power plants
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Dec 2, 2021 21:21
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Truga posted:that's what the plan is, but it brings me no pleasure to report that sadly, coal is very much not yet cratering https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-electricity-source/a-59168105 
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Dec 2, 2021 21:28
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A not insignificant part of that "Renewable Energy" is Biomass aka Wood Pellets. And no, they bumped up to 26% of their energy in 2021 being coal. 
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Dec 2, 2021 22:10
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The total output seems to be cratering, if anything 
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Dec 2, 2021 22:23
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Merkel is out now and NS2 is currently on halt, pending some legal restructuring of the operating company. The new coalition has already announced that they are moving away from the strong pro-NS2 stance and will accept the EU's decision on the matter. Seems like it could go either way now. There are probably enough legal technicalities that the EU can use to refuse NS2 going online. Russia is going to be very pissed. e: this is going to make great headlines in Russian media. BETRAYED again by the WEST! 
GABA ghoul fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 22:39
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CommieGIR posted:A not insignificant part of that "Renewable Energy" is Biomass aka Wood Pellets. Most biomass is stuff like this: https://www.lipp-system.de/projekte/biogasanlagen-projekte/ You can see a lot of them in rural regions where excess silage and manure is turned to electricity and heating. Pellets are used a lot in passive houses, where the whole thing barely has to run. My colleague has one, it's fancy. mobby_6kl posted:The total output seems to be cratering, if anything I sure hope so. Still a net exporter. GABA ghoul posted:Merkel is out now and NS2 is currently on halt, pending some legal restructuring of the operating company. The new coalition has already announced that they are moving away from the strong pro-NS2 stance and will accept the EU's decision on the matter. Seems like it could go either way now. There are probably enough legal technicalities that the EU can use to refuse NS2 going online. Russia is going to very pissed. Well, the Greens are hawks on Russia. That coalition contract has some pretty strong language regarding EU institutions as well. It'll be pretty interesting to see how much of that manifests.
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Dec 2, 2021 22:43
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In less power centric news: Putin has basically threatened to shoot down the GPS constellation if US/EU intervenes in Ukraine if they take action. https://twitter.com/larrypress/status/1466301753658273794?s=20 Which is loving moronic because the US would immediately shoot down GLONASS in retaliation. Basically MAD but for Space systems and Kessler syndrome.
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Dec 2, 2021 23:37
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Germany is already Russias bitch. gently caress ex-chancellor Schröder. Can I just say that Clancy chat should never be Probatable in this thread because Russia is literally a loving Clancy villain WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 00:17
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That's Rosneft chairman Schröder to you....
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Dec 3, 2021 00:32
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Head of occupation authorities in parts of Donetsk region says he would ask Russia and Belarus for help in case of deterioration situation at Donbas Occupation authorities in parts of Luhansk region are now contradicting their colleagues from occupied parts of Donetsk region and authorities in Moscow, saying that they are not observing any Ukrainian build-up or preparations of offensive Lmfao got some conflicting narratives here in Novo Russia
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Dec 3, 2021 04:05
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Can I just say that Clancy chat should never be Probatable in this thread because Russia is literally a loving Clancy villain https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1466445124087468033 Clancy chat became a meaningless term when Russia invaded georgia a decade and a half ago ... a plot from a clancy book
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Dec 3, 2021 04:13
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Vasukhani posted:https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1466445124087468033 Russia has an opportunity to make territorial moves. Like the EU NATO and the US are basically not going to do anything and in a way Russia is playing a strong hand with their recent saber rattling the GPS poo poo and EU gas. Well most likely they're not going to actually do any of these things, the bigger question is will the Western hemisphere risk any of these things for Ukraine
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Dec 3, 2021 04:45
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Vasukhani posted:Clancy chat became a meaningless term when Russia invaded georgia a decade and a half ago ... a plot from a clancy book
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Dec 3, 2021 07:06
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Russia better sort itself out or the Pentagon will make Russia a major antagonist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:48
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A propos of Clancychat, I had this Frederic Forsyth paperback from the late 1990s about a extreme right wing nationalist starting to become influential in Russia and Western intelligence services reacting by orchestrating an unlikely alliance of the Orthodox Church, Chechen mafia, an oligarch and another stakeholder I cannot remember right now to restore monarchy. I wonder how well that would have aged by now.
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Dec 3, 2021 09:53
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a podcast for cats posted:A propos of Clancychat, I had this Frederic Forsyth paperback from the late 1990s about a extreme right wing nationalist starting to become influential in Russia and Western intelligence services reacting by orchestrating an unlikely alliance of the Orthodox Church, Chechen mafia, an oligarch and another stakeholder I cannot remember right now to restore monarchy. I wonder how well that would have aged by now. Sounds like a CK3 mod
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Dec 3, 2021 11:17
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CommieGIR posted:Which is loving moronic because the US would immediately shoot down GLONASS in retaliation. Basically MAD but for Space systems and Kessler syndrome. Kessler syndrome is not a threat in/for the orbits that the positioning systems use. They are simply too high, with too long periods. You could pulverize every satellite in them into 1g chunks, and it would not materially increase the risks of collision, unless you went and deliberately chose an orbit that was impacted. Space is big. Kessler syndrome is a risk where for some reason a lot of satellites want to fit into a specific, narrow orbital regime.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:33
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