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Finished the book, pretty good. Others have discussed the shortcomings and I don't have much to add to those. I agree with most of the criticisms, but I still liked the series enough to buy all the books and finish reading them. I can't say the same for some other doorstopper series. Anyway I'll have a spicy chicken combo, no salt on the fries please.
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Dec 1, 2021 21:12
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 "Have I said gently caress you very much for dragging me back yet?" Getting close to the end, and knowing the broad strokes I know it's not going to be the incredible ending I was anticipating, but it's been a fun ride across these 5000 or so pages and I'm kind of sad for it to end. I hope we see the last 3 books on screen at some point, going by the show so far, we'd get a better version of what has been a decent story in the books.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:50
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Nail Rat posted:"I like you Doc. You're a good person. I know you're not getting off on this. That's why we're not having the other version of this conversation." Wes inhabits the role so well it's completely replaced whatever mental image I had, yeah.
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Dec 2, 2021 01:22
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Just finished. Overall I'm happy with it, even if I didn't feel surprised by anything. Maybe surprise for the sake of surprise isn't the best thing. If anything, the epilogue threw me for a loop, they could have ended it without that, though I'm glad they included it. Also very glad book Alex seems to survive, with the Roci, to get to be the father and grandfather he wanted to be Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 03:54
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Turns out the show runners made a really good call by ending the TV series before the timeskip. The Mass Effect analogy up thread is spot on unfortunately. If books 1-6 are ME 1-2, and books 7-8 are the mostly good first half of ME3, then Leviathan Falls is ME3’s utter lack of payoff that retroactively made the earlier titles worse. I got worried with how much the early part of the book was faffing around but it wasn’t until the loving fingergun that I realized they definitely weren’t sticking the landing.
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Dec 2, 2021 10:18
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While it'd probably have been fun for humanity to figure out a way to take the fight to the "Goths" and win and keep the gates and everyone is happy it would have been pants on head stupid. All of humanity just loving dies wouldn't have been much better. Those are the three possible outcomes at this point, for the show as well, and if the show's response is to not deal with it, that's just a cop-out. Walter White decides to go back to ABQ, roll credits on series. The difference between ME3 and this is, they were building to this ending since at least that "bomb" was found on Ilus IV. I agree with a lot of the other criticisms though. I also think if they were to adapt this for the show they would do a better job of it, as they have for just about everything. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 14:02
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The genius of these books, by which I mean the primary artistic achievement, is rendering the most extreme human emotions and experiences conceivable down into ho-hum. When Jim Holden says “Just processing some old trauma, the usual” he’s basically stating the thesis of The Expanse. No matter where we go or what we do it’s going to look like a bunch of people having the same conversations in the same scenes over and over and over again. [in extremely mr plinkett voice]
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Dec 2, 2021 17:29
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It wasn't the most exciting dismount, but they stuck the landing, and that counts for a lot in a world with Rise of Skywalker, ME3, and the final seasons of GoT.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:51
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I like that they've built a really cool universe to explore further if they want to.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:12
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I lolled a bit when everybody got hit with the Newtype experience and their stopgap solution was just "take pills"
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Dec 2, 2021 19:57
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General Battuta posted:The genius of these books, by which I mean the primary artistic achievement, is rendering the most extreme human emotions and experiences conceivable down into ho-hum. When Jim Holden says “Just processing some old trauma, the usual” he’s basically stating the thesis of The Expanse. No matter where we go or what we do it’s going to look like a bunch of people having the same conversations in the same scenes over and over and over again. Yeah, the book trying to tell me that Holden was a traumatised wreck after his time in Laconia prison was... not very effective.
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Dec 2, 2021 21:56
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Yeah, the book trying to tell me that Holden was a traumatised wreck after his time in Laconia prison was... not very effective. Look, he lost his teeth and it was traumatic, you know that because he mentioned having newly regrown teeth and in a couple moments of inner monologue he referred to how that guy ordered him beaten. I don’t know how they could have been more clear in describing how someone else had a bad experience before except by relaying that it happened.
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Dec 2, 2021 22:09
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The most interesting events happened off the page. Pretty disappointing
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Dec 3, 2021 02:31
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The mistakes you made at the high stakes table were always the ones that cost the most, and Jillian had a lot of chips.
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Dec 3, 2021 16:28
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Oh I think I'll "pass" on your offer. Alex, if you wouldn't mind.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:56
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Whatever, I liked the book. The Expanse series has always been competently written space opera with a veneer of scientific plausibility. The book hit every mark it needed to, let everyone do something cool, and gave the characters and the reader a chance to say good bye to each other. You can look at almost any work of fiction and point to a thousand places where you would have done something differently, and maybe if they do make post-series movies they will get a chance to have a second draft. I'm just pissed off that Cas Anvar being a sex pest will deny us Alex and the Roci riding off into the sunset.
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Dec 3, 2021 22:18
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I liked the book as well, I was just joking. There are some bad lines but how many sci Fi novels is that not true for? I definitely agree they failed to convince me on Holden's trauma though.
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Dec 3, 2021 23:18
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Just realized that a key worldbuilding element of the Expanse universe is that Epstein did, in fact, kill himself
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Dec 4, 2021 01:54
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General Battuta posted:Just realized that a key worldbuilding element of the Expanse universe is that Epstein did, in fact, kill himself 
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Dec 4, 2021 02:13
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Gangringo posted:I'm just pissed off that Cas Anvar being a sex pest will deny us Alex and the Roci riding off into the sunset. lol is that what you think happened? alex loving died. hears a strange sound from the reactor, then that's it.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:01
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Horizon Burning posted:lol is that what you think happened? alex loving died. hears a strange sound from the reactor, then that's it. That would be one interpretation except that happened 100 km from the gate and in the next chapter acting God emperor James "loving" Holden sees it clear the gate safely, at which point he could just go on the float so he could have lived, could have died, but we probably don't find out
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Dec 4, 2021 04:18
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ah well. hope they didn't starve to death or something in whatever system that was then, i guess.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:32
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Horizon Burning posted:ah well. hope they didn't starve to death or something in whatever system that was then, i guess. The sin of kits father was coming to eat his food
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Dec 4, 2021 04:35
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it's cool that the ending was just a mash-up of mass effect and, of all things, neon genesis evangelion. you know the authors were having trouble with the story when the first half of the novel is a boring car chase of a plot where the most exciting thing with a fake-out death and it felt like every second chapter would retell significant chunks of the one previous
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Dec 4, 2021 05:02
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I’ve never posted in this forum before but I wanted to chime in and say I’m disappointed but hoping for an epilogue series
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Dec 4, 2021 06:03
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I loved it, and had a lot of fun reading the book. Honestly, people are saying "I called it!" like that's not the most insufferable thing someone can do, but I'll be damned if a single person before this week "called" one of the main plot points being loving human instrumentality! Again, they managed to tell another chapter in the story where I wasn't sure where they were going, and was pleasantly surprised by the twists it took. It was good poo poo. EDIT vvv Mad that I liked the book? Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 08:56
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I loved it, and had a lot of fun reading the book. Honestly, people are saying "I called it!" like that's not the most insufferable thing someone can do, but I'll be damned if a single person before this week "called" one of the main plot points being loving human instrumentality! Again, they managed to tell another chapter in the story where I wasn't sure where they were going, and was pleasantly surprised by the twists it took. It was good poo poo. mad? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 4, 2021 09:08
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I loved it, and had a lot of fun reading the book. Honestly, people are saying "I called it!" like that's not the most insufferable thing someone can do, but I'll be damned if a single person before this week "called" one of the main plot points being loving human instrumentality! Again, they managed to tell another chapter in the story where I wasn't sure where they were going, and was pleasantly surprised by the twists it took. It was good poo poo. I think we all have to get used to wading through insufferable posting (very much including mine) here, because I don't think it's going away. When god-emperor BOTL was slain, a pearl of his awareness entered each of us, causing each of us to process our insecurities through the lens of fiction and thirst for the blood of our posting enemies.
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Dec 4, 2021 15:56
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Posting about not liking a book may be slightly insufferable but if that's so you will have to slightly suffer me cause this book bad. I'm waiting til I finish to complain about a few things because they might end up being redeemed but so far there are some choices that just baffle me.
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Dec 4, 2021 16:12
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Nail Rat posted:I liked the book as well, I was just joking. There are some bad lines but how many sci Fi novels is that not true for? It felt very Holden that he just refuses to come to grips with the fact that various symptoms are part of a trauma syndrome and instead just tries to overcome them in isolation, while everyone else realizes he's a broken shell of a man. As an idea, it feeds through to the choices Holden makes at the end. I can't claim that the writing couldn't be improved but I've read this entire series more to find out that happens next than to relish the beauty of the prose. I (obviously) not a real critical reader but there's something interesting in Jillian's terrible decision vs the way Holden and Alex turn at the end. Having all the chips on the table changes things, for good or ill.
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Dec 4, 2021 16:52
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I don't know Holden seems pretty broken to me in the first 7 chapters. What he thinks about Alex's family is pretty dark, the guy has no hope left.
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Dec 4, 2021 17:52
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"He popped his bowl and spoon into the recycler, appreciating how the lid clicked under his hand, how it sealed when he took the pressure away. It was such a small, little elegance. So easy to overlook." They are loving with me personally
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Dec 4, 2021 18:18
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The last act of this book is actually pretty decent. Good ending. Everything with Tanaka is a loving mess. It ended as it went, I guess. Some great moments and way too much filler. Holden's last words were truly perfect General Battuta fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 19:22
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General Battuta posted:The last act of this book is actually pretty decent. Good ending. Emphasis on the loving.
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Dec 4, 2021 19:37
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I may be paraphrasing but Holden said "I have no loving idea" and then did it anyway. Jesus Christ that really is how you go through life isn't it. e: a new interview with the authors implies that a lot more than 30 worlds survived: The epilogue leaves a lot open to readers’ interpretation — now that the different systems can be connected again, will history repeat itself or can people find a better way forward? What were your intentions there? Abraham: Part of what we were doing with the whole series was making the argument that history is prophecy, that humans don’t actually change much as an organism. The stuff we were doing in Rome, we’re doing now. And the happy ending that we have is, now we’ve got 1,300 chances to get it right. Now, maybe somebody will figure it out. One of the reasons I think the epilogue is short is, I’m not sure what that would look like. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 19:56
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Well, I guess that's how it feels to end a decade long series. I remember only Malazan coming close in my personal experience and that series got steadily lost in the author's pretensions. Next, GoT? Heh. The Expanse was a competent page turner that had some really iconic characters that didn't really change much, which feels true to life. Holden going out as Space Jesus of latter day saints of gently caress-it-we'll-do-it-live church is just excellent. The last book reminded me why I liked the book Holden vastly more than the TV version. How can you butcher a character like that? I never understood that decision.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:25
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Grimwall posted:
Book Holden starts out as a giant knob too, he just gets better faster.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:47
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Steven Strait is by far the worst actor on the expanse though he has gotten better at least within the realms of "sick of this protomolecule bullshit" show Holden. I'll be interested to see what he ends up on next, because there's only so many roles that can serve scowling with a gravelly voice and a beatific smile and nothing else. I watched the first four seasons before I read any of the books but while I picture the show actors for many major parts, the big exceptions are really Drummer (amalgamation of 2 other book characters so just doesn't seem right), Ashford (obvious) and Holden. I don't really have a picture of Holden in my head I just know it's not Steven Strait. The character is just too different. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 04:34
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Steven Strait Holden is the guy who Book Holden thinks he is. Book Holden is just an average-looking probably-white farmboy type.
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Dec 6, 2021 06:18
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My biggest beef with TV Holden is he never cracks a joke, never smiles. It is a pretty key trait in the book, it's his main coping mechanism!
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Dec 6, 2021 15:48
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